What in the Universe Survival Arc did you hate most?

[Torturephile]

The general lack of cohesiveness of the writing and its varying quality episode to episode, and no showdowns between different universes against each other since they all formed a waiting line to fight U7, and to a lesser extent, U6. The inconsistent pacing also is a detriment to my overall enjoyment of the arc.

[Pantalones]

My biggest issue was probably how it was "6th and 7th universes vs. everyone" rather than having many fights between the other universes, and the related issue of the 7th universe fighters being "out of energy" after one fight but then immediately powering up to higher forms again in the next episode. Goku going regular Super Saiyan when "out of energy" would be fine since we know that he's mastered that form to the point where it's not a strain anymore, but using Super Saiyan Blue and frickin' Kaio-ken when he's supposedly out of stamina just doesn't make sense.

Piccolo -- the one character whose ridiculously good hearing is an established thing! -- being knocked out due to not hearing the tiny bug guy coming is pretty bad, too.

Kind of disappointed we didn't get to see Buu fight, too, but getting to see #17 do so well makes up for that.

[Diccolo-420]

It'd probably be better to say what *didn't* I hate from this arc. At this point I feel super just needs to be retconned like GT because it's so bad in terms of storytelling and lore. I'll just list things off the top of my head

1. Wasted plot points (gohan's transformation, frieza taking over the gods, Krillin being relevant, the other universes being worth anything, Goku's antagonistic nature)
2. Forced Goku pandering to where they shove him into *every* single scene.
3. How predictable it was
4. Timescaling worse than 5 minutes on Namek
5. Turning Vegeta into a caricature
6. Rushed ending FTW!
7. Did I mention Gohan utterly sucked?
8. Universe 4 being pointless
9. Nobody got much eliminations other than Universe 7 and Jiren
10. The tournament was pointless
11. The peanut gallery never shutting up about what we already know
12. Ruining Ultra Instinct so that it's just another emotional power up
13. Lack of intrigue, unlike the Black Arc
14. Lack of tension
15. This one is subtle but they overused the "Ultimate Battle" theme.
16. Remember when Whis told Goku and Vegeta that if they worked together they'd be unstoppable? Peppridge Farm remembers
17. Zenos annoying comments, I honestly think Toei believes their reactions are representative of ours
18. Jiren went from mysterious to boring to utterly painful to watch on screen. Worst Dragon Ball antagonist ever
19. Shift of tone from semi-serious to just ridiculous

and last but not least

20. The fact that this is actually canon and Toei won't do jack **** to improve or change anything because they're making way too much money.

I'm at the point where I just want to say Z ended at the Cell Saga and there was no more dragon ball after that. I'm also wondering if this ending was really Toei or that Toriyama got incredibly lazy

[SsjCookie]

No true elements of surprise throughout most of the arc, except until the end.

But in between ...No plots, no unexpected turn of events, no real schemes, no side stories, no battle tension, and no character development.
This arc had potential, but completely wasted it in my opinion.

It was just dumb fighting with mostly highly predictable outcomes.
17 winning the tournament and Zeno's test was the only element of surprise in this whole arc.

How do you figure there is no tension? People were fighting for the lives of their entire universe? And no character development? Vegeta being a mentor with Cabba among other things showed development in this arc, 17 showed development until the end, Kale definitely developed, Toppo changed his character, most obviously that Jiren progressed as a character.

I find it extremely hard to believe that you found this tournament to not have have any unexpected turn of events.

The only tension I felt in this arc was at the ending, the rest of the TOP just felt lacklustre to me.
Maybe because of the laid back manner in which this so called "battle for survival" was treated by the cast?!....I don't know.
All I am saying is that something was amiss for me in this tournament.

And when it comes to the characters, they just failed to grow on me as interesting personality's.
Vegeta and 17 are still okay in my book, but the rest failed to make a lasting impression.
Maybe that's because I never liked their designs in the first place.

[Spider-Man]

Forgot to mention:

-All the ToP contestants are a waiting line for U7 and to a lesser extent U6.

-Zeno annoying comments

-Ultimate battle being overused

-Vegeta repetitive speech about his family, pride and promise to Cabba

-The recruitment episode is a waste of time.

[Zillamon51]

Ribrianne and Universe 2. A one-episode gag that just Would. Not. End.

[Beerus-sama]

- arc was too long.
- A big part of this arc was about recluting U7 members instead of focusing on presenting the other universes before the tournament.
- This was said in another thread but, the lack of other scenarios, the arc was so focused on the tournament that we never saw other characters outside of it like Goten and Trunks with Marron in 17's island, Bulma or another sidestory outside the world of Void that end up with its universe dying at the end because of the tournament. I don't know, Something different than just fighting fulltime in the world of void where the sky is dark and the ground is full of rocks out of nowhere (wasn't the field supposed to be resistent? why was it so easy to break?).
- Almost all of the new characters had no background and were just padding so that the tournament rules could be fulfilled for all the Universes participants, leading to people like me to be annoyed that theres really no feeling in seeing those universes being erased when a background for them hasn't been told before other than" there it goes, another wasted opportunity to explore" .
- The premise that this arc was a game over for most universes before we even met them.
- I have a love/hate feeling with the wish, while it was the obvious and happy ending way to go, it also made this tournament and drama meaningless, and Daishinkan saying Zen'ou was expecting the wish to recover all those universes made it worse.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I have quite a lot of irks.
>No plot, No story, No real stakes held.
>Writers wouldn't let anyone die in battle.
>The forced wish for everyone to be brought back, and this fake moral virtue Zeno suddenly had.
>Pacing being extremely slow and arc being too long (A tournament with no villain was boring.)
>Eveyone on U7 just dragged into it. The sole Goku centering and UI forcing. (Where as SS forms used to be an ambiguous surprise).
>U7 able to break rules if Zeno allowed it.
>Jiren doing nothing in the anime and only Goku wanting to fight him.
>Jiren's inconsistent power.
>Vegeta's repetitive speeches about his family, pride and promise to Cabba.
>The dumb call for Mortal levels being about population and life intelligence as opposed to the obvious assumption being power.
>The Gods of Destruction designs. Most looking horrible to my taste outside of Beerus, Champa, the Fox, and the Mouse. (ex. Belmod, The elephant & Iwan's designs)
>The Aniraza fight was probably my most disliked episodes. His design is ugly and his powers were all unoriginal. Growth, Portal Punches, the usual.
>Jiren's backstory is very disappointing, especially from Toriyama. It surprised me to find out he did that, and not Toei that time but my goodness it was lame.
>Jiren being hyped up and 'going full power" over and over again, only to lose to the "power of friendship" and trust. Terribly forced climax.
>The horrible scaling couldn't be said enough, most of the new characters look like Otherworld extras, and were all weaklings but all could stomp SSB if it came to it.
>SSB looking like garbage thanks to this arc. Goku's overuse of it despite him claiming he'd save his ki, and the inconsistent stamina nonsense.
>Goku's character entirely in this arc bothered me. His obliviousness, his inability to listen to others, taking nothing seriously, sparring and helping his opponents. No.
>The horrible 1v1 style pacing for each fight being given its own episode, and most of the characters doing very trivial "strategies" to beat weak-looking opponents,
>U10 wanting to assemble for "god tube" over training, as much as I dislike that out of place gag, it seemed undermining to use it again just to show U10 being dumb.
>The horrible cheerleading for Goku over everyone else, and the excessive commentary of characters just stating the obvious as being shown.
>The hyped up bug episode being a ridiculous situation and the overall episodic feel of it; too many different amateur writers & Shounen cliches.
>No. 17's push with no characterization for it, while doing Gohan the opposite. He's the leader but nobody cares.
>Freeza's death cage being pointless (as he had telekinesis the whole time anyway).
>Dyspo's lame design, being near identical to Beerus despite being a rabbit, and just being another Burter.
>Ultra Instinct being a White-haired Kaioken now & the fact it was made a pseudo-transformation, Goku talking within it while said to be unconscious.

[Weejus]

Ribrianne and Universe 2. A one-episode gag that just Would. Not. End.

What's wrong with that? I'm not being facetious, I'm genuinely interested.

[Zillamon51]

What's wrong with that? I'm not being facetious, I'm genuinely interested.

The humor wore off very quickly. Since that was the characters' defining trait, with no deeper development, they quickly became annoying. Then they stuck around long enough to become grating.

The first U2 episode was fine, even if it was one simple gag stretched out. Then, Ribrianne vs. 18, and the showdown with their final trio, was pretty good. Everything else involving U2? Bleech.

[Koitsukai]

I was hoping U-10's hakaishin to be somewhat of a badass or at least scary, someone that could've freaked out Black, but no, it was a joke of a character. Not questioning his power, only his personality

[Vegeta_Sama]

I was hoping U-10's hakaishin to be somewhat of a badass or at least scary, someone that could've freaked out Black, but no, it was a joke of a character. Not questioning his power, only his personality

His personality worked/contrasted well with Zamasu's. He didn't need to be an imposing scary motherfucker, he needed to be a chill wise old mentor, who failed at forming his apprentice cause of his soft approach. Zamasu would not have worked if Gowasu was buff son of a bitch He would have been too scared to catch those hands

[Koitsukai]

I was hoping U-10's hakaishin to be somewhat of a badass or at least scary, someone that could've freaked out Black, but no, it was a joke of a character. Not questioning his power, only his personality

His personality worked/contrasted well with Zamasu's. He didn't need to be an imposing scary motherfucker, he needed to be a chill wise old mentor, who failed at forming his apprentice cause of his soft approach. Zamasu would not have worked if Gowasu was buff son of a bitch He would have been too scared to catch those hands

No no, I meant the pink elephant Ramushi or whatever his name was. He looked more to me like a Shidra than a Beerus. I agree with you about Gowasu.

[Vegeta_Sama]

I was hoping U-10's hakaishin to be somewhat of a badass or at least scary, someone that could've freaked out Black, but no, it was a joke of a character. Not questioning his power, only his personality

His personality worked/contrasted well with Zamasu's. He didn't need to be an imposing scary motherfucker, he needed to be a chill wise old mentor, who failed at forming his apprentice cause of his soft approach. Zamasu would not have worked if Gowasu was buff son of a bitch He would have been too scared to catch those hands

No no, I meant the pink elephant Ramushi or whatever his name was. He looked more to me like a Shidra than a Beerus. I agree with you about Gowasu.

Fuck, I read that wrong I thought you said "kaioshin" not "hakaishin".
Sorry for the brain fart I totally agree with you on that then

[Lupin Vegeta]

-The time limit ended up not mattering at all in the end, why even have one and create the time problem? Should've just been last universe standing wins, but instead we're supposed to believe the last seven episodes took place over the span of 2 minutes. Stupid.
-The other universes in general. The arc only really got going when it was down to U7 and U11. Save for a few things here and there, the other universes felt like monsters of the week. U2, 3, 4, 9, and 10 should all have been eliminated in one episode each to leave more time for the U11 fight.
-The amount of time wasted on bullshit. You're telling me Goku/Frieza/17 vs. Jiren only gets half an episode but Universe 3 gets two full episodes? Unbelievable.
-The placement of 109 and 110. Ultra Instinct should never have been revealed before the U7/U11 fight. It makes all of the Goku and Vegeta in Blue vs Jiren stuff seem pointless when you know Goku is going to go Ultra Instinct again at some point. Vegeta's new form should have been revealed before Goku broke into the next tier with Ultra Instinct. And don't give me that "he needed to do it a few times to master it" crap. He got knocked out of it in 30 seconds. He never mastered shit. It should have gone Goku and Veg vs Jiren -> 109/110 fight except Goku stays in UI and we get 129-131. Obviously that means the Kefla fight can't happen with Ultra Instinct but oh well. Maybe that gives ESSB Vegeta something to do.

[AnzuMazaki]

-One Year of nothing but fighting in a tournament with no filler
-Not seeing the earth friends and family for nearly a year
-Tenshinhan and Kuririn being treated like fodder memes again (Not to mention Tenshinhan's memetastic performance in the recruitment arc, throw him a bone or something )
-Piccolo's Elimination
-Yamcha waiting for his invitation ONLY for his best friend Puar to be asked to shapeshift into a playboy playmate without anyone even considering Yamcha for a tournament because "durr hurr memez".

I guess that is all.

[The Patrolman]

Kale and Caulifla. I know people liked them but I hate them. Kale is a typical yandere and Caulifla is annoying with her constant overblowing of herself about her power. Not to mention her B.S way to transform into SSJ and SSJ2.

Jiren is probably the worst antagonist. I get the whole strong silent type but he is just boring. His half ass generic Naruto like backstory made him even worse. I can't sympathize with him its so forced.

The concept of a battle royale is thrown out of the window and its basically Universe 7 vs The World. Seriously who did the other universes focused their attention Universe 7, who was the reason that their universes were erased the 7th Universe, and who had the most eliminations Dai Nana Uchu.

The time limit. WHAT WAS THE POINT? Why was there time limit? The pacing of this was atrocious. Worse than the infamous 5 minutes.

[ekrolo2]

Dropping the whole idea of the Gods suffering some repercussions for being dick heads. Ever since the tail on of the U6 tournament, where Goku and Hit discuss how they're pawns and the former says not for long, there's been this little ongoing thread where the Gods were gonna get it down the line.

The whole following arc reinforced this with showing us how terrifying Zeno is and the whole ordeal with Zamasu to further cement the idea that the Gods were cunts who needed an ass whooping. Then further hints came with the whole battle royale, Goku hinting to Freeza he was up to something more then we knew and the whole "The time of the Gods is coming to an end" for the UI teaser poster basically implied that Goku's new form would spell trouble for the Gods. Freeza gunning for control over them tjrough the Super DBs laid further seeds that big stuff would go down between mortals and deities.

Nope! Zeno was never an amoral little bastard, he just killed billions of people and staryed the ToP as a test of selflessness to see if we were all nice to each other when the chips were down. Because that TOTALLY makes sense with his previous characterization!

Some might say we'll get to that later but I'll believe that noxious piece of idealistic malarkey when Beerus ordering planet Vegeta's destruction becomes a plot point some time in the next epoch.

[Doctor.]

Dropping the whole idea of the Gods suffering some repercussions for being dick heads. Ever since the tail on of the U6 tournament, where Goku and Hit discuss how they're pawns and the former says not for long, there's been this little ongoing thread where the Gods were gonna get it down the line.

The whole following arc reinforced this with showing us how terrifying Zeno is and the whole ordeal with Zamasu to further cement the idea that the Gods were cunts who needed an ass whooping. Then further hints came with the whole battle royale, Goku hinting to Freeza he was up to something more then we knew and the whole "The time of the Gods is coming to an end" for the UI teaser poster basically implied that Goku's new form would spell trouble for the Gods. Freeza gunning for control over them tjrough the Super DBs laid further seeds that big stuff would go down between mortals and deities.

Nope! Zeno was never an amoral little bastard, he just killed billions of people and staryed the ToP as a test of selflessness to see if we were all nice to each other when the chips were down. Because that TOTALLY makes sense with his previous characterization!

Some might say we'll get to that later but I'll believe that noxious piece of idealistic malarkey when Beerus ordering planet Vegeta's destruction becomes a plot point some time in the next epoch.

It's even more bizarre when you consider how Bulma's entire shtick during the U6 arc was that she was distrustful of Beerus and the Gods wielding such power(y'know, Bulma, the smartest person in the series), which is what led her to go to Zuno and discover more about the SDBs on her own; that's in the manga, too, so it's a part of Toriyama's outline. And even before that point, she tried to get Whis on her good side back in the F arc. Considering all the hints you pointed out, I was expecting Bulma to turn out to be right, but apparently she was just a dumbfuck.

[ekrolo2]

Dropping the whole idea of the Gods suffering some repercussions for being dick heads. Ever since the tail on of the U6 tournament, where Goku and Hit discuss how they're pawns and the former says not for long, there's been this little ongoing thread where the Gods were gonna get it down the line.

The whole following arc reinforced this with showing us how terrifying Zeno is and the whole ordeal with Zamasu to further cement the idea that the Gods were cunts who needed an ass whooping. Then further hints came with the whole battle royale, Goku hinting to Freeza he was up to something more then we knew and the whole "The time of the Gods is coming to an end" for the UI teaser poster basically implied that Goku's new form would spell trouble for the Gods. Freeza gunning for control over them tjrough the Super DBs laid further seeds that big stuff would go down between mortals and deities.

Nope! Zeno was never an amoral little bastard, he just killed billions of people and staryed the ToP as a test of selflessness to see if we were all nice to each other when the chips were down. Because that TOTALLY makes sense with his previous characterization!

Some might say we'll get to that later but I'll believe that noxious piece of idealistic malarkey when Beerus ordering planet Vegeta's destruction becomes a plot point some time in the next epoch.

It's even more bizarre when you consider how Bulma's entire shtick during the U6 arc was that she was distrustful of Beerus and the Gods wielding such power(y'know, Bulma, the smartest person in the series), which is what led her to go to Zuno and discover more about the SDBs on her own; that's in the manga, too, so it's a part of Toriyama's outline. And even before that point, she tried to get Whis on her good side back in the F arc. Considering all the hints you pointed out, I was expecting Bulma to turn out to be right, but apparently she was just a dumbfuck.

Not to mention that this being a developing plot line would help the BoG arc retroactively. Beerus' more antagonistic behavior there makes a lot more sense and feels purposeful if it's meant to show us that the Gods are by and large just as dangerous as the various bad guys so far.