What did you LOVE Most in the Universe Survival Arc?!

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Asura
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Re: What did you LOVE Most in the Universe Survival Arc?!

Post by Asura » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:18 pm

Kagari wrote:During that time he was also taught to shed his arrogance - a huge issue he had when he was given the upper hand in his fights in Z. Gohan also regained his fighting sense to become a serious, confident warrior which was shown to the audience when he challenged his father.
This is a really important part too. Gohan has always had the problem of getting cocky/arrogant or letting his rage cloud his judgement. He really did get rid of that in this arc which is pretty big character development for him. He fought very smart and very tactical in the tournament. In fact, he might have been one of the most tactical and strategic members of the team right behind 17.

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Re: What did you LOVE Most in the Universe Survival Arc?!

Post by namekiansaiyan » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:27 pm

Kagari wrote:
Puaru wrote:
Naw man, he sucked.When people think back at the most awesome moments from the ToP they are not thinking about anything Gohan did. Gohan never went beyond his limits like Goku did (gaining ultra instinct) Vegeta did (surviving his own suicide attack), 17 did (also surviving his own suicide attack). Gohan just did unimpressive unimportant crap that never looked cool or took real strenght. Everything he did are things that Goku could have done with one finger. Gohan is weak and pathethic.
Speak for yourself. When I look back at the best moments from the tournament, my favorite parts are in 118 when Gohan saved Piccolo in a complete role reversal from the Saiyan arc and the father-son simultaneous Kamehameha against Universe 2 and 6.

You seem so stuck on 17, the same 17 who was off-screen for most of the tournament (had no fights from episodes 104-116), the same 17 who spent most of the final battle running around and didn't even take out a single one of the U11 big three. And the Vegeta stuff... well don't get me started on how awful his entire character was the whole arc. Cheapening his big emotional moment from Z isn't what I would call an "awesome moment."
I hate that role reversal and I hate anything about Piccolo and Gohan protecting each other. I don't like throwbacks like this. The simultaneous Kamehameha shouldn't have happened as the the Magical Boys should have been one episode and Saonel and Pirina another. The Special Beanm Cannon was also the best bit about and not the Kamehamehas.

When 17 was gone for all those episode not as many fights happened as 4 episodes were Goku vs Caulifla and Kale while he Goku also had 2 episodes against and the rest was Hit, Frost and Roshi. 17 was treated as the new golden boy throughout the arc and was never made to look bad at all. His win was forced amd should have been knocked out before.

The character who had it shit was Piccolo as in the first 15 episodes all he did was lose 3 arms and have a 10 second fight with Rubalt from Universe. Then he had 2 little scenes until episode 118 which both made Gohan look better instead.

Vegeta had pointless emotional moments and too many of them and the most stupid thing was that throwback against Toppo.

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Re: What did you LOVE Most in the Universe Survival Arc?!

Post by Puaru » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:33 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote:
Kagari wrote:
Puaru wrote:
Naw man, he sucked.When people think back at the most awesome moments from the ToP they are not thinking about anything Gohan did. Gohan never went beyond his limits like Goku did (gaining ultra instinct) Vegeta did (surviving his own suicide attack), 17 did (also surviving his own suicide attack). Gohan just did unimpressive unimportant crap that never looked cool or took real strenght. Everything he did are things that Goku could have done with one finger. Gohan is weak and pathethic.
Speak for yourself. When I look back at the best moments from the tournament, my favorite parts are in 118 when Gohan saved Piccolo in a complete role reversal from the Saiyan arc and the father-son simultaneous Kamehameha against Universe 2 and 6.

You seem so stuck on 17, the same 17 who was off-screen for most of the tournament (had no fights from episodes 104-116), the same 17 who spent most of the final battle running around and didn't even take out a single one of the U11 big three. And the Vegeta stuff... well don't get me started on how awful his entire character was the whole arc. Cheapening his big emotional moment from Z isn't what I would call an "awesome moment."
I hate that role reversal and I hate anything about Piccolo and Gohan protecting each other. I don't like throwbacks like this. The simultaneous Kamehameha shouldn't have happened as the the Magical Boys should have been one episode and Saonel and Pirina another. The Special Beanm Cannon was also the best bit about and not the Kamehamehas.

When 17 was gone for all those episode not as many fights happened as 4 episodes were Goku vs Caulifla and Kale while he Goku also had 2 episodes against and the rest was Hit, Frost and Roshi. 17 was treated as the new golden boy throughout the arc and was never made to look bad at all. His win was forced amd should have been knocked out before.

The character who had it shit was Piccolo as in the first 15 episodes all he did was lose 3 arms and have a 10 second fight with Rubalt from Universe. Then he had 2 little scenes until episode 118 which both made Gohan look better instead.

Vegeta had pointless emotional moments and too many of them and the most stupid thing was that throwback against Toppo.
Yeah, Piccolo is extremely weak nowadays, but that's not as bad as Gohan being weak because with Piccolo strenght was never as important a character trait as it was with Gohan.

Gohan's whole character revolves around his potential strenght. Gohan's role in DBZ was having a great potential strenght and also occasionally being able to unleash that potential such as against Radditz, Cell and Super Boo. So when DBS treats the ToP version of Gohan as "strong enough" it ruins his entire character. ToP Gohan is NOT strong enough because in order to be strong in the context of DBS you need to be Blue level or at least God level. Comparative strenght in the only strenght that matters. The strongest dog in the world is weak compared to any polar bear. And Gohan is weak and he sucks, but the show tries to pass him off as being as strong as he needs to be in order to be "back in the game" or whatever.

Piccolo never had a chance to be part of the big leage anyway, so that's different. I mean yeah I agree that Piccolo shouldn't have sucked so much balls in the ToP, he should have at least have done something cool, like certain other weak characters like Roshi or something.

But when compared against what can be expected of them when looking at DBZ (and I'm talking in terms of strenght compared to other characters at any certain point in the series because that is the ONLY thing that matters) I will maintain that Gohan sucked even worse than Piccolo.

Piccolo should have been kinda strong but he wasn't, and that sucks. But Gohan should have been REALLY strong and he wasn't, so that sucks even more.

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Re: What did you LOVE Most in the Universe Survival Arc?!

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:01 pm

Puaru wrote:Yeah, Piccolo is extremely weak nowadays, but that's not as bad as Gohan being weak because with Piccolo strenght was never as important a character trait as it was with Gohan.
Umm... what? Piccolo has gotten insanely stronger since ROF. Same with Gohan. Hell, they're among the strongest fighters across 8 universes. How does that constitute to them being weak?

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Re: What did you LOVE Most in the Universe Survival Arc?!

Post by majinwarman » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:58 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Puaru wrote:Yeah, Piccolo is extremely weak nowadays, but that's not as bad as Gohan being weak because with Piccolo strenght was never as important a character trait as it was with Gohan.
Umm... what? Piccolo has gotten insanely stronger since ROF. Same with Gohan. Hell, they're among the strongest fighters across 8 universes. How does that constitute to them being weak?
I think that they are referring to Piccolo and Gohan's eliminations.
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