Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

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Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by Low Tone G » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:11 pm

Is a condition for someone to possess God Ki to attain Ultra Instinct as the forms is referred as a state for gods? Shin told that Complete UI Goku bears godliness while being in the form.. Does that imply that Goku is a God himself using UI?
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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by ToshioWrites » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:27 pm

Its up in the air since they did say "work of the gods ends here" but on the other hand the aura for Jiren in 130 looks very similar to the Complete UI aura and Jiren presumably used "normal" ki since they said he achieved his power on his own and it didn't seem like the angel, kai or GoD trained him. If i had to guess I would say Yes

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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by Mister_Popo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:16 pm

Acquiring God-Ki is the first step in the divine learning curve. The mastery of self-movement is an advanced state that even the Gods haven't fully mastered. I would think Omen and MUI definitely have God-Ki as well.

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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by majinwarman » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:08 pm

Mister_Popo wrote:Acquiring God-Ki is the first step in the divine learning curve. The mastery of self-movement is an advanced state that even the Gods haven't fully mastered. I would think Omen and MUI definitely have God-Ki as well.
I'm going to assume that it has God ki until we find it doesn't have it.
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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by Meshack » Mon May 07, 2018 2:09 pm

I’m sure in the episodes that everyone could sense Gokou’s power while in Ultra Instinct -Sign- and Ultra Instinct. That’s pretty straight forward after that

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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Fri May 11, 2018 6:32 pm

Meshack wrote:I’m sure in the episodes that everyone could sense Gokou’s power while in Ultra Instinct -Sign- and Ultra Instinct. That’s pretty straight forward after that
Even Roshi and Piccolo comment on Goku's power in the state.

In the first instance of Ultra Instinct Omen, Roshi notes how Goku's energy is frighteningly calm even though he's emitting immense heat, and in the second instance, Piccolo notes that Kefla growing in power could incite Goku to use more power himself.

With Ultra Instinct, Goku isn't tapping into some otherworldly power separate from his own like he is with SSG and SSB; he's breaking the shell of his limits and reaching into the deeper potential within himself, the ability to move without thought and thus become the best fighter one can be. Having God Ki doesn't really factor into the whole equation.

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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by Meshack » Fri May 11, 2018 6:34 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Meshack wrote:I’m sure in the episodes that everyone could sense Gokou’s power while in Ultra Instinct -Sign- and Ultra Instinct. That’s pretty straight forward after that
Even Roshi and Piccolo comment on Goku's power in the state.

In the first instance of Ultra Instinct Omen, Roshi notes how Goku's energy is frighteningly calm even though he's emitting immense heat, and in the second instance, Piccolo notes that Kefla growing in power could incite Goku to use more power himself.

With Ultra Instinct, Goku isn't tapping into some otherworldly power separate from his own like he is with SSG and SSB; he's breaking the shell of his limits and reaching into the deeper potential within himself, the ability to move without thought and thus become the best fighter one can be. Having God Ki doesn't really factor into the whole equation.
Yeah pretty much

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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by Low Tone G » Sat May 12, 2018 4:06 am

Meshack wrote:
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Meshack wrote:I’m sure in the episodes that everyone could sense Gokou’s power while in Ultra Instinct -Sign- and Ultra Instinct. That’s pretty straight forward after that
Even Roshi and Piccolo comment on Goku's power in the state.

In the first instance of Ultra Instinct Omen, Roshi notes how Goku's energy is frighteningly calm even though he's emitting immense heat, and in the second instance, Piccolo notes that Kefla growing in power could incite Goku to use more power himself.

With Ultra Instinct, Goku isn't tapping into some otherworldly power separate from his own like he is with SSG and SSB; he's breaking the shell of his limits and reaching into the deeper potential within himself, the ability to move without thought and thus become the best fighter one can be. Having God Ki doesn't really factor into the whole equation.
Yeah pretty much
I'm pretty much suspecting the phrase of "The work of God(s) end here!" could mean that Goku no longer needs God Ki to surpass the gods only his latent potential as a mere mortal is enough for that. So Goku's UI might not Godly Ki..
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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat May 12, 2018 9:31 am

majinwarman wrote:
Mister_Popo wrote:Acquiring God-Ki is the first step in the divine learning curve. The mastery of self-movement is an advanced state that even the Gods haven't fully mastered. I would think Omen and MUI definitely have God-Ki as well.
I'm going to assume that it has God ki until we find it doesn't have it.
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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by Meshack » Sat May 12, 2018 3:30 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
majinwarman wrote:
Mister_Popo wrote:Acquiring God-Ki is the first step in the divine learning curve. The mastery of self-movement is an advanced state that even the Gods haven't fully mastered. I would think Omen and MUI definitely have God-Ki as well.
I'm going to assume that it has God ki until we find it doesn't have it.
This
Not this. The Earthlings were able to sense Gokou’s power. Note the Earthlings don’t have god energy.

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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by Mister_Popo » Sat May 12, 2018 5:40 pm

That's correct. When Goku was fighting Jiren first round, i thought they were able to sense he was improving while using UI Omen. If he was using God-Ki, normally only divine beings would be able to sense that. God-Ki equals absolute Ki-control. How can you go beyond that? UI might be some different energy source (different type of Ki?) altogether. The fact they could sense the power was rising, could have been something to do with the heat Goku was radiating when he was using UI. In that case it doesn't have to be a reference he was not using God-KI. It's not entirely clear, i think we still have (a lot) more to discover about UI.

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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat May 12, 2018 6:43 pm

Mister_Popo wrote:That's correct. When Goku was fighting Jiren first round, i thought they were able to sense he was improving while using UI Omen. If he was using God-Ki, normally only divine beings would be able to sense that. God-Ki equals absolute Ki-control. How can you go beyond that? UI might be some different energy source (different type of Ki?) altogether. The fact they could sense the power was rising, could have been something to do with the heat Goku was radiating when he was using UI. In that case it doesn't have to be a reference he was not using God-KI. It's not entirely clear, i think we still have (a lot) more to discover about UI.
Generally, when characters are referring to Goku's use of God Ki, they either mention its immense pressure when they're mortals who can't sense it, or they mention its similarity to the Ki of actual gods by said gods and/or mortals who can sense God Ki.

The only reference to Ultra Instinct Goku in a remotely similar vein is how gods struggle to learn it, as well as how godly it is in its usage; these aren't specific enough to really conclude that the form utilizes the same kind of Ki as a god.

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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by Miracles » Sat May 12, 2018 6:51 pm

Yes, god ki is a level of ki, not a special type of ki. How did Goku get "god ki" in the first place?
By absorbing the ki of five/six Saiyans to achieve god level.

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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat May 12, 2018 7:26 pm

Miracles wrote:Yes, god ki is a level of ki, not a special type of ki. How did Goku get "god ki" in the first place?
By absorbing the ki of five/six Saiyans to achieve god level.
That's blatantly false.

The Ki of gods is explicitly referred to in a separate sense from that of mortals. If it were merely a level, then the Kaioshin shouldn't have God Ki given that they're inferior to Cell and Majin Buu, and Freeza and Jiren should have God Ki themselves.

Heck, your own example is self-defeating because, in the series, they tried that without knowing they needed a sixth Saiyan, and it only gave Goku a very high boost in power, not allow him to transform into a state that could appropriately be called a god; this example is also contradicted by the fact that the SSG ritual is explicitly a ritual dependent on power that isn't a Saiyan's own, a level of power that the individual Saiyans participating in the ritual wouldn't be able to produce on their own.

The Ki of a god, whilst not explicitly different in function to normal Ki, is nonetheless different enough that it's classified separately.

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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by Miracles » Sat May 12, 2018 7:48 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Miracles wrote:Yes, god ki is a level of ki, not a special type of ki. How did Goku get "god ki" in the first place?
By absorbing the ki of five/six Saiyans to achieve god level.
That's blatantly false.

The Ki of gods is explicitly referred to in a separate sense from that of mortals. If it were merely a level, then the Kaioshin shouldn't have God Ki given that they're inferior to Cell and Majin Buu, and Freeza and Jiren should have God Ki themselves.

Heck, your own example is self-defeating because, in the series, they tried that without knowing they needed a sixth Saiyan, and it only gave Goku a very high boost in power, not allow him to transform into a state that could appropriately be called a god; this example is also contradicted by the fact that the SSG ritual is explicitly a ritual dependent on power that isn't a Saiyan's own, a level of power that the individual Saiyans participating in the ritual wouldn't be able to produce on their own.

The Ki of a god, whilst not explicitly different in function to normal Ki, is nonetheless different enough that it's classified separately.
Where was it stated that god ki is is a different type of ki and not just a higher level of Ki? Especially when other mortals who have that level of power can sense and battle them evenly.

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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat May 12, 2018 7:56 pm

Miracles wrote:
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Miracles wrote:Yes, god ki is a level of ki, not a special type of ki. How did Goku get "god ki" in the first place?
By absorbing the ki of five/six Saiyans to achieve god level.
That's blatantly false.

The Ki of gods is explicitly referred to in a separate sense from that of mortals. If it were merely a level, then the Kaioshin shouldn't have God Ki given that they're inferior to Cell and Majin Buu, and Freeza and Jiren should have God Ki themselves.

Heck, your own example is self-defeating because, in the series, they tried that without knowing they needed a sixth Saiyan, and it only gave Goku a very high boost in power, not allow him to transform into a state that could appropriately be called a god; this example is also contradicted by the fact that the SSG ritual is explicitly a ritual dependent on power that isn't a Saiyan's own, a level of power that the individual Saiyans participating in the ritual wouldn't be able to produce on their own.

The Ki of a god, whilst not explicitly different in function to normal Ki, is nonetheless different enough that it's classified separately.
Where was it stated that god ki is is a different type of ki and not just a higher level of Ki? Especially when other mortals who have that level of power can sense and battle them evenly.
Dende in Battle of Gods is the only one at Bulma's party that can sense Beerus's Ki, calling it remarkably similar to that of a god's; he's the only full god present. During Resurrection of F, Krillin and Gohan note that they can't sense Goku's Ki upon his transformation into SSB. During the Future Trunks Arc, Zamasu is watching Goku's fight with Hit on GodTube and notes that Goku is cloaked in the Ki of the gods.

That's not to mention the numerous mentions to Goku and Vegeta's SSB forms emitting immense pressure when non-god-level mortals like Krillin and Future Trunks can't sense their Ki traditionally.

Unlike all these instances, Ultra Instinct Goku's energy is specifically called out by such lower mortals like Roshi and Piccolo despite it being greater than even his god forms; there's also no mention of immense pressure.

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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by OLKv3 » Sat May 12, 2018 11:22 pm

He has god ki. Whis calls it the power of the gods when he loses UI at the end of the battle.

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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by Low Tone G » Sun May 13, 2018 2:58 am

OLKv3 wrote:He has god ki. Whis calls it the power of the gods when he loses UI at the end of the battle.
Then mere mortals like Tien and Roshi could read on the evolution of Goku when in UI? So they all of a sudden are able to do this, but fail to do it along the whole series' progression? Not only that, but they are able to sense AND accurately predict Goku power increases?
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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by OLKv3 » Sun May 13, 2018 3:10 am

Low Tone G wrote:
OLKv3 wrote:He has god ki. Whis calls it the power of the gods when he loses UI at the end of the battle.
Then mere mortals like Tien and Roshi could read on the evolution of Goku when in UI? So they all of a sudden are able to do this, but fail to do it along the whole series' progression? Not only that, but they are able to sense AND accurately predict Goku power increases?
Trunks was able to sense SSB Vegetto's ki. Piccolo and Roshi were able to sense how different Vegeta's ki was when he transformed into Beyond Blue or whatever it's called.
Toei clearly stopped caring about the god ki rule. Like a lot of things in DBS, it depends on who's writing the episode

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Re: Does UI Omen/Complete UI Goku have God Ki?

Post by JazzMazz » Sun May 13, 2018 3:18 am

OLKv3 wrote:
Low Tone G wrote:
OLKv3 wrote:He has god ki. Whis calls it the power of the gods when he loses UI at the end of the battle.
Then mere mortals like Tien and Roshi could read on the evolution of Goku when in UI? So they all of a sudden are able to do this, but fail to do it along the whole series' progression? Not only that, but they are able to sense AND accurately predict Goku power increases?
Trunks was able to sense SSB Vegetto's ki. Piccolo and Roshi were able to sense how different Vegeta's ki was when he transformed into Beyond Blue or whatever it's called.
Toei clearly stopped caring about the god ki rule. Like a lot of things in DBS, it depends on who's writing the episode
Which Trunks?
Future Trunks wasn't able to do so in episode 54 when Vegeta showed Trunks Blue. He remarked that he couldn't feel Vegeta's energy any more, just a remarkable pressure, same was true for Piccolo when Goku went Blue in episode 71 and with Kuririn in episode 84.

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