What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
OLKv3
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:39 pm

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Postby OLKv3 » Sun May 20, 2018 9:42 am

JazzMazz wrote:
sangofe wrote:
shadowfox87 wrote:In a former interview, Toyotaro said that his manga will be ahead of the anime in the future.

He did not say that.

He did, but I'm also sure in a more recent comment he said something along the lines of "drats, the anime got ahead of me again."

He didn't say that. He mentioned that he'll be the one sending info to Toei soon, instead of the other way around. That happened with the ToP.

User avatar
Marlowe89
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1654
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:30 pm

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Postby Marlowe89 » Sun May 20, 2018 10:38 am

Exline wrote:This is the major problem of trying to keep everything consistent.


Again, I disagree with that. Toei's complete disregard for consistency and inability to execute the arc's basic premise makes their story feel like an incoherent mess. I don't think their characterization of major characters (and even minor ones, like Ribrianne) is handled as well as it is in the manga, nor is it written within the context of a battle royale like it is in Toyotaro's version.

What you're arguing makes the manga "boring" and "unmemorable" is exactly what I think makes the manga exciting and memorable. The tournament is supposed to feel hectic, sporadic and turbulent; that's what keeps it fresh and avoids the formulaic issues of the anime.

Exline wrote:The Ribrianne gag was pretty funny as well this chapter. It's a breather from the many fights we were shown in the beginning of this chapter involving the other U7 participants. I don't see whats wrong with gags and characterizing some characters. It's make for some entertaining content that doesn't dramatically halt the pacing of the arc.


You're definitely mischaracterizing my argument here. I never said there was a problem with gags or characterization, and I think the manga does a better job of both. I'm saying the anime rarely does them well, using Katopesla as an example. I'm saying in-depth characterization isn't required for all the minor fighters because they have other purposes within the narrative.

Gags obviously need to stay, otherwise it wouldn't feel like Dragon Ball. Whether they halt the pacing of the arc depends on how they're implemented.
Last edited by Marlowe89 on Sun May 20, 2018 11:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Spider-Man
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 455
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:36 pm
Location: Conton City

Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Postby Spider-Man » Sun May 20, 2018 11:13 am

The thing that manga is doing better than the anime is that Goku isn't shoe horned in every chapter, they didn't drop any plot line, Jiren is better in that version and everyone is not waiting to be killed by U7.
    However it's still have some fare share of issues, it has some weak fights last month particular being one the weakest, Character getting throw out way too early and lastly is either too slow or too quick.
      In spite of these issues, I still find this take just as entertaining as the anime.
      "Time to make the doughnuts"

      User avatar
      perucho1990
      I Live Here
      Posts: 2339
      Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:04 pm

      Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

      Postby perucho1990 » Sun May 20, 2018 2:57 pm

      The only things the manga is doing better than the anime:

      Pacing: Making the arc more realistic.

      Jiren is tolerable so far and he is actually a team player.

      User avatar
      Exline
      Beyond Newbie
      Posts: 272
      Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:28 pm

      Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

      Postby Exline » Sun May 20, 2018 4:15 pm

      Marlowe89 wrote:
      Exline wrote:This is the major problem of trying to keep everything consistent.


      Again, I disagree with that. Toei's complete disregard for consistency and inability to execute the arc's basic premise makes their story feel like an incoherent mess. I don't think their characterization of major characters (and even minor ones, like Ribrianne) is handled as well as it is in the manga, nor is it written within the context of a battle royale like it is in Toyotaro's version.

      What you're arguing makes the manga "boring" and "unmemorable" is exactly what I think makes the manga exciting and memorable. The tournament is supposed to feel hectic, sporadic and turbulent; that's what keeps it fresh and avoids the formulaic issues of the anime.


      Oh no, I'm not a fan of their inconsistency either, but I don't think we can ignore the fact how they've thrown consistency out the window for the sake of entertainment. I commend their ability to make engaging and memorable fights even though they've ignored so many things that can leave many confused. But don't deny the anime's proficiency in providing us with some great writing and characterization throughout some of the Tournament of Power episodes. Characters such as Rozie, Toppo, Trio de Dangers, Caulifla, etc. have all made the tournament so memorable due to their personas and the anime's staff properly using most of these characters to the best of their ability.

      I too became frustrated at episodes that felt like such a mess and we're handed very poorly. It's why I prefer the manga for it's consistency with the Dragon Ball world. However, just because I enjoy the Super manga doesn't mean I can give Toyotaro a slap on the wrist for such poorly story boarded fights. We can't ignore the overuse of the same attacks he's been doing within this last few chapters (such as the giant Ki ball hurled at enemies that both 17 and Ribrianne had done, as well as the two gigantic blasts we've seen in multiple chapters of the ToP). If you find these fights enjoyable, that's great, but there are others who are disappointed by this mediocrity we've been getting after such a great introduction to the arc we got with Vegeta vs. Beerus and the Godly Rumble.

      And about the feel of the tournament, I agree with you on it. I love how this feels like a battle royale and the unpredictable nature of it all. I don't know how many posts I've mentioned Toyotaro's exceptional ability to subvert our expectations. Although, I'm not a fan of his poor character usage. It appears Toyotaro may be struggling with it all, which is probably understandable for a mangaka who must try to meet the expectations of fans of a legend like Toriyama himself.

      User avatar
      batistabus
      Advanced Regular
      Posts: 1428
      Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:55 pm
      Location: Western Massachusetts

      Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

      Postby batistabus » Sun May 20, 2018 4:28 pm

      The manga is infinitely better. Once the tournament actually started in the anime, it was just one botched premise after another. The manga has clear threads of development, actual payoff, consistency, and isn't dragged out to the point of unbearable tediousness. It makes bold moves and actually feels like a battle royale. The comedy is on point, and it doesn't rely on out-of-place meta jokes like the anime does. The only point of competition will be to see how the manga ends the arc, because I think the anime's ending was just about perfect.

      User avatar
      Zephyr
      I Live Here
      Posts: 3398
      Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:20 pm

      Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

      Postby Zephyr » Mon May 21, 2018 4:58 pm

      From a shorter "recruitment" section, to, as OLKv3 said, the tournament not being "Universe 7 running a gauntlet", the pacing is miles better. From a storytelling perspective, it seems to know who its main characters are: Goku, Jiren, #17, and Freeza; they're being set up with distinct motives and strategies.

      Would I have also enjoyed seeing other characters' personalities, and people like Tenshinhan and Piccolo do more? Absolutely, but I don't think them not doing so is any detriment to the story. And while it's not as big on spectacle as the anime (occasionally) was, that's, also, not a humongous detriment to the storytelling. At least not at this stage in the tournament. The absolute pounding that the fighting stage took during the later portions of the anime was on point, and I hope the manga follows suit.

      Echoing the sentiment that the anime's climax was really great, and I hope the manga can stick the landing as well.
      Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.

      Cipher wrote:When Dragon Ball, a series that largely runs on its style and charm, can't consistently present either style or charm, what's it doing?

      VegettoEX wrote:There is not always deeper meaning and hidden mystery waiting for some aspiring sleuth.

      User avatar
      Cipher
      Born 'n Bred Here
      Posts: 5300
      Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:54 pm
      Location: Nagano
      Contact:

      Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

      Postby Cipher » Tue May 22, 2018 4:57 am

      Marlowe89 wrote:
      Exline wrote:I understand its not the point of the arc, but what is the reason for introducing more than 80 characters (including the GoDs, etc. of each universe) for?


      To present an obstacle for the protagonists, as I said. The minor fighters aren't needed for characterization purposes, they're needed to contribute to the challenge of fighting in an 80-person battle royale -- which is exactly what they do in the manga as demonstrated by characters like Frost, the Kamikaze Fireballs, Damon, Gamisaras, and so on. The anime had plenty of one-shot fodder as well; the entire point is to convey which fighters are fortunate (or smart, or strong) enough to survive and which ones aren't.

      For example, seeing Katopesla running around and relying on the same tired gag for several scenes isn't entertaining, it's padding. Making quick work of him in the manga wasn't anything worse than just trimming unnecessary fat.

      Just want to throw in another vote of support for this. The point of an event like the Tournament of Power is not to showcase eighty developed characters: It's to provide a frantic situation for the biggest threats to emerge from--an overall environment the main characters have to deal with. It's fine for there to be completely incidental, one-off gag characters, or those who get taken out off-screen. As long as the situation sells the frenzied events, it's working.

      That's not to say it can't introduce new, substantial focal characters too, but the arc already does, in both versions, and it needn't exert itself there just to provide a universal showcase if it doesn't have a specific plot-based or thematic role for them.

      And re: posts above: Yes, the manga's been a much more coherent narrative so far. I suspect part of what sabatoged the anime to the extent that it was was structuring itself around an enthusiastically heroic Jiren and vaguely villainous Goku, which ultimately got the boot someways into planning (explaining the more or less dropped plot point of Goku's complicity and Jiren being exchanged with Toppo at the exhibition matches). The manga's much more focused.

      User avatar
      mute_proxy
      Regular
      Posts: 632
      Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:09 am
      Location: Planet 4032-877

      Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

      Postby mute_proxy » Tue May 22, 2018 5:03 am

      My opinion is that the scale of the event feels downsized in the manga and the execution is a bit too simple and boring. I was all for the manga up until this point, but now it's just boring

      User avatar
      Kakarotto92
      Beyond Newbie
      Posts: 216
      Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:42 am

      Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

      Postby Kakarotto92 » Tue May 22, 2018 5:23 am

      For the Zen Exhibition Matches and Freeza's recruitment to the U7 team, I'd take the anime version over the manga.

      As for the ToP itself, I'd say it's a bit too early to comment on that. While I am a bit worried with how fast the eliminations are happening, as long as Toyotaro keeps with the "2 minutes and 30 seconds per 45 pages" pacing, then I'm fine with it. I'll be disappointed if the arc ends in less than 10 monthly chapters.

      User avatar
      KuririnNoKotoKa
      Newbie
      Posts: 32
      Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:51 pm

      Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

      Postby KuririnNoKotoKa » Tue May 22, 2018 7:52 pm

      It has no idea what it wants to be. It does, however, know exactly what it doesn't want to be.

      The TV series is a hijacked story (With none put into it's place. It just got nope'd the fuck out.) that had to be forcefully pieced together alongside managing its animation schedule on a fucked production by a staff that lost some of its best crew within its production. It being able to function, much less produce entertainment and having something interesting to say on the rare occasion, is nothing short of a small miracle. Even with its severe identity issues, it still managed to occasionally have bits of iconography, be it new or subversions on the old, that are its own.

      By contrast, what is Toyotaro attempting to do? The scripting, ever since the Future Trunks arc as he attemped to merge the structure of Takao Koyama's Z movies to a Toriyama arc, has been almost strictly reactive. A lot of its beats are simply attempting to fix problems presented in the anime's version while moving the plot along in the blandest way possible. It's characters, when not ripping body languange from the original series or put into purely reactive situations, feel just as off as when handled by the TV series' worst writers. The new cast is often undermined so much or presented as bland, generic Toriyama copycats (Which goes back to how strong the influence of Koyama's Dragon Ball is on him) that makes one believe what's even the point?

      It's overwhelmingly insincere, from its hypercondensed plotting that's still presented in as monthly serial, which was only barely acceptable due to the then concurring existence of its bigger brother, to its fear of doing anything remotely upseting to anyone, while also leeching what someone might have enjoyed from the TV series in hoping of catering to some without bothering to lay the groundwork itself, but still insisting on being a story that has any worth existing by its own.

      It's a coward's comic that doesn't take any advantage of it being a comic. It is just nothing.

      And following Akira Toriyama's Dragon Ball? This is just genuinely sad to see.

      lancerman
      Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
      Posts: 380
      Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:36 pm

      Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

      Postby lancerman » Tue May 22, 2018 8:09 pm

      Haven't heard any good things about how the manga's handled this

      Kataphrut
      OMG CRAZY REG
      Posts: 909
      Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:12 pm

      Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

      Postby Kataphrut » Tue May 22, 2018 10:52 pm

      KuririnNoKotoKa wrote:It has no idea what it wants to be. It does, however, know exactly what it doesn't want to be.

      The TV series is a hijacked story (With none put into it's place. It just got nope'd the fuck out.) that had to be forcefully pieced together alongside managing its animation schedule on a fucked production by a staff that lost some of its best crew within its production. It being able to function, much less produce entertainment and having something interesting to say on the rare occasion, is nothing short of a small miracle. Even with its severe identity issues, it still managed to occasionally have bits of iconography, be it new or subversions on the old, that are its own.

      By contrast, what is Toyotaro attempting to do? The scripting, ever since the Future Trunks arc as he attemped to merge the structure of Takao Koyama's Z movies to a Toriyama arc, has been almost strictly reactive. A lot of its beats are simply attempting to fix problems presented in the anime's version while moving the plot along in the blandest way possible. It's characters, when not ripping body languange from the original series or put into purely reactive situations, feel just as off as when handled by the TV series' worst writers. The new cast is often undermined so much or presented as bland, generic Toriyama copycats (Which goes back to how strong the influence of Koyama's Dragon Ball is on him) that makes one believe what's even the point?

      It's overwhelmingly insincere, from its hypercondensed plotting that's still presented in as monthly serial, which was only barely acceptable due to the then concurring existence of its bigger brother, to its fear of doing anything remotely upseting to anyone, while also leeching what someone might have enjoyed from the TV series in hoping of catering to some without bothering to lay the groundwork itself, but still insisting on being a story that has any worth existing by its own.

      It's a coward's comic that doesn't take any advantage of it being a comic. It is just nothing.

      And following Akira Toriyama's Dragon Ball? This is just genuinely sad to see.


      I wouldn't put it in as harsh words, but you've touched on my biggest issue with the Super manga in general which is that it feels like it only exists to solve problems in the anime that didn't really need to be solved while changing things around just enough to feel different without actually adding anything substantially new. There are certainly problems with the anime version of Super, but instead of attempting to make them work within a unified narrative, Toyotaro more often than not just throws the baby out with the bathwater.

      Zen Yabuki
      Not-So-Newbie
      Posts: 81
      Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:51 pm

      Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

      Postby Zen Yabuki » Wed May 23, 2018 12:27 am

      perucho1990 wrote:The only things the manga is doing better than the anime:

      Pacing: Making the arc more realistic.

      Jiren is tolerable so far and he is actually a team player.

      This is lol. He isn't a team player.

      User avatar
      Omniboy
      Beyond Newbie
      Posts: 164
      Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:42 pm

      Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

      Postby Omniboy » Wed May 23, 2018 12:29 am

      Zen Yabuki wrote:
      perucho1990 wrote:The only things the manga is doing better than the anime:

      Pacing: Making the arc more realistic.

      Jiren is tolerable so far and he is actually a team player.

      This is lol. He isn't a team player.


      How isn't he a team player?
      Mr. Burns to football team:
      Men, there's a little crippled boy sitting in the hospital who wants you to win this game. I know because ... I crippled him myself to inspire you.


      Milhouse:
      I hope they win, or Mr.Burns said he's coming back.

      User avatar
      JazzMazz
      I Live Here
      Posts: 2038
      Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:28 am
      Location: Mordor, the Borg cube and Voldemort's lair all at the same time in the year 199X

      Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

      Postby JazzMazz » Wed May 23, 2018 2:12 am

      Omniboy wrote:
      Zen Yabuki wrote:
      perucho1990 wrote:The only things the manga is doing better than the anime:

      Pacing: Making the arc more realistic.

      Jiren is tolerable so far and he is actually a team player.

      This is lol. He isn't a team player.


      How isn't he a team player?

      How is he a team player in the manga?

      User avatar
      mute_proxy
      Regular
      Posts: 632
      Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:09 am
      Location: Planet 4032-877

      Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

      Postby mute_proxy » Wed May 23, 2018 2:19 am

      JazzMazz wrote:
      Omniboy wrote:
      Zen Yabuki wrote:This is lol. He isn't a team player.


      How isn't he a team player?

      How is he a team player in the manga?

      Great conversation guys, keep it up :D

      User avatar
      Miracles
      I'm pretty cozy, here...
      Posts: 1686
      Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

      Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

      Postby Miracles » Wed May 23, 2018 2:33 am

      Giving the audience a sense of battle royale feeling goes to the manga.

      Naturally, Jiren vs Goku having the most impact goes to the anime.

      I feel the manga fights will pick up when it comes down to U11 vs U7 final participants.

      User avatar
      Omniboy
      Beyond Newbie
      Posts: 164
      Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:42 pm

      Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

      Postby Omniboy » Wed May 23, 2018 3:06 am

      JazzMazz wrote:
      Omniboy wrote:
      Zen Yabuki wrote:This is lol. He isn't a team player.


      How isn't he a team player?

      How is he a team player in the manga?


      No need to be so snarky about it. The reason I'm asking is because I want to get a better understanding of where he is coming from. A bad habit of mine that I discovered while being on this site, is that sometimes misinterpret other people's argument and miss the point that they were trying to make. I also tend to forget things sometimes and miss some detail that I overlooked. So to avoid wasting their time with an argument that doesn't make sense and overlooks their entire point, I simply ask what they mean, especially when they don't go into detail. Who knows. My perception of what I thought before might be wrong.

      I think a made a comment once about Jiren not wanting to eliminate people, and refusing to eliminate people, until someone correctly stated that that was headcanon. (Although that user was replying to someone else.)
      Mr. Burns to football team:
      Men, there's a little crippled boy sitting in the hospital who wants you to win this game. I know because ... I crippled him myself to inspire you.


      Milhouse:
      I hope they win, or Mr.Burns said he's coming back.

      User avatar
      JazzMazz
      I Live Here
      Posts: 2038
      Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:28 am
      Location: Mordor, the Borg cube and Voldemort's lair all at the same time in the year 199X

      Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

      Postby JazzMazz » Wed May 23, 2018 3:13 am

      Omniboy wrote:
      JazzMazz wrote:
      Omniboy wrote:
      How isn't he a team player?

      How is he a team player in the manga?


      No need to be so snarky about it. The reason I'm asking is because I want to get a better understanding of where he is coming from. A bad habit of mine that I discovered while being on this site, is that sometimes misinterpret other people's argument and miss the point that they were trying to make. I also tend to forget things sometimes and miss some detail that I overlooked. So to avoid wasting their time with an argument that doesn't make sense and overlooks their entire point, I simply ask what they mean, especially when they don't go into detail. Who knows. My perception of what I thought before might be wrong.

      I think a made a comment once about Jiren not wanting to eliminate people, and refusing to eliminate people, until someone correctly stated that that was headcanon. (Although that user was replying to someone else.)

      I apologize. I wasn't trying to come off as snarky.

      Personally, I'm of the sort that thinks Jiren really hasn't done anything to suggest he is a team player. Yes, he fights people from other universes, but he doesn't really work with anyone from his own universe, hell, even when offered to be helped by Toppo and Dyspo against Hit and Jiren, he adamantly refused. I feel this aspect of him still very much defines him as a loner.


      Return to “Dragon Ball Super”

      Who is online

      Users browsing this forum: Bergamo, Dbzk1999, Google Adsense [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], PFM18, Simere, Tian and 10 guests