Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

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Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by Low Tone G » Sun May 20, 2018 11:54 am

We recently learned that there is indeed a Legendary Super Saiyan and it was Yamoshi, but Toriyama never said that he is the Original SSG too, he is just the spirit who wants to find it as a savior for his race, the Saiyans.

So did he really transform into SS God or he was killed before he could attain the form... And if he didn't why did the B. O. G. has him to fail against the evil Saiyans in his God form?

Did Toriyama contradict himself yet again?

So if Yamoshi is the inventor of the form Goku should be the first ever person who actually enters the form? Does it make sense?
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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by OLKv3 » Sun May 20, 2018 12:01 pm

He isn't, this is stated in all versions of BoG.

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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by Grimlock » Sun May 20, 2018 12:01 pm

No. Yamoshi's spirit wandered in search for the new Saiyan and found it when Saiyans were living in planet Vegeta. It is that flashback we see in Movie 14. Goku is the second one to transform into Super Saiyan God.
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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by Low Tone G » Sun May 20, 2018 12:10 pm

Grimlock wrote:No. Yamoshi's spirit wandered in search for the new Saiyan and found it when Saiyans were living in planet Vegeta. It is that flashback we see in Movie 14. Goku is the second one to transform into Super Saiyan God.
Is that simple? So Yamoshi lived on Planet Sadal, then?
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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by Grimlock » Sun May 20, 2018 12:11 pm

Yes, you are correct.
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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by Low Tone G » Sun May 20, 2018 12:21 pm

Grimlock wrote:Yes, you are correct.
Is there any official information to link what Shenron said in the B.O.G movie and the interview by Toriyama? I mean it's common sense to think that an unknown righteous Saiyan from planet Vegeta can the original Super Saiyan God, but Toriyama didn't mention that Yamoshi wandered and also found this savior, did he?

And if he did find this savior why continued to seek it and made Beerus to dream about this Super Saiyan God?
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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by Marlowe89 » Sun May 20, 2018 12:22 pm

OLKv3 wrote:He isn't, this is stated in all versions of BoG.
Is it? For Super, I recall Shenron explaining how the ritual works and mentioning that it was recorded in the Namekian Book of Legends (the latter of which isn't mentioned in the film), but I don't remember any tale specifying righteous Saiyans on Planet Vegeta.

I'd have to go back and check to be sure, but that would probably explain why people subscribed to the idea of Goku being the original Super Saiyan God.
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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sun May 20, 2018 12:24 pm

In the interview, the SSG that was referred to was the one mentioned in the movie version of Battle of Gods, the one that appeared over Planet Vegeta.

Although he wasn't mentioned in the anime version, presumably, he should still be in continuity; in the same vein, the Namekian Book of Legends brought up in the anime and not the movie is also in continuity, since Toriyama brings it up in the same interview.

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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by Low Tone G » Sun May 20, 2018 12:50 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:In the interview, the SSG that was referred to was the one mentioned in the movie version of Battle of Gods, the one that appeared over Planet Vegeta.

Although he wasn't mentioned in the anime version, presumably, he should still be in continuity; in the same vein, the Namekian Book of Legends brought up in the anime and not the movie is also in continuity, since Toriyama brings it up in the same interview.
It's also interesting that the movie version has the Super Saiyan God a silhouette which resembles Vegeta and the anime has Beerus to see a figure looks more like Goku as the Super Saiyan God...

Toriyama is implying that Namekian elders read Yamoshi's spirit and recorded how to create the Super Saiyan God, but interestingly enough neither the anime, nor Toriyama mentions that a Super Saiyan God once appeared before, but the movie does... Hm...? :roll:
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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by Koitsukai » Sun May 20, 2018 12:54 pm

No, but Goku and Vegeta probably are the first SS Blue ever, though

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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by Grimlock » Sun May 20, 2018 1:08 pm

Low Tone G wrote:but interestingly enough neither the anime, nor Toriyama mentions that a Super Saiyan God once appeared before, but the movie does... Hm...? :roll:
Actually, Toriyama mentions through Dragon Ball Minus and Movie 14, Freeza knows about Super Saiyan God as we see it in the former, which obviously means that someone has transformed into it before.

This is why retellings shouldn't have been made, they just create unnecessary differences and a whole new continuity just to confuse a lot of people... Let's just stick with works that we know for sure Toriyama was fully involved, shall we?
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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by Low Tone G » Sun May 20, 2018 1:40 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Low Tone G wrote:but interestingly enough neither the anime, nor Toriyama mentions that a Super Saiyan God once appeared before, but the movie does... Hm...? :roll:
Freeza knows about Super Saiyan God as well, as we see it in Dragon Ball Minus, which obviously means that someone has transformed into it before.

This is why retellings shouldn't have been made, they just create unnecessary differences and a whole new continuity just to confuse a lot of people... Let's just stick with works that we know for sure Toriyama was fully involved, shall we?
So to build the full story up:
1. On Planet Sadal of Universe 7 Yamoshi and some of his fellow Saiyans were righteous and rebelled against evil onces. He managed to become a Super Saiyan, making the debut of the Legendary Super Saiyan.
2. He ran out of energy and was killed by the evil Saiyans.
3. His spirit wandered all over the Universe to find a new savior to stop his people's evil ways, a Super Saiyan God.
4. At one point he finds six good Saiyans on Planet Vegeta, who accidentally created the OSSG(but with Yamoshi's contribution).
5. This Saiyan, which name is unknown, battled aganist evil Saiyans who were Oozarus, but due to the time limit of the form, ultimately lost to them.
6. Yamoshi's spirit continued to wander and some Namekian elders sympathized with it, so they could make the record in the Namekian Book of Legends of how to perform the ritual.
7. Beerus was told by Yogengyo that after 39 years he will meet his worthy foe and goes for his slumber.
8. Beerus sensed Yamoshi's spirit and had a dream about the Super Saiyan God.
9. Beerus wakes up and acutally meets Goku who was able to become this God with the help of Shenron's tale(from the Namekian Book of Legends), which only includes Planet Vegeta's Super Saiyan God's appearance and the way to summon it.

Is this the way it supposed to be?
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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sun May 20, 2018 1:48 pm

Low Tone G wrote:
Grimlock wrote:
Low Tone G wrote:but interestingly enough neither the anime, nor Toriyama mentions that a Super Saiyan God once appeared before, but the movie does... Hm...? :roll:
Freeza knows about Super Saiyan God as well, as we see it in Dragon Ball Minus, which obviously means that someone has transformed into it before.

This is why retellings shouldn't have been made, they just create unnecessary differences and a whole new continuity just to confuse a lot of people... Let's just stick with works that we know for sure Toriyama was fully involved, shall we?
So to build the full story up:
1. On Planet Sadal of Universe 7 Yamoshi and some of his fellow Saiyans were righteous and rebelled against evil onces. He managed to become a Super Saiyan, making the debut of the Legendary Super Saiyan.
2. He ran out of energy and was killed by the evil Saiyans.
3. His spirit wandered all over the Universe to find a new savior to stop his people's evil ways, a Super Saiyan God.
4. At one point he finds six good Saiyans on Planet Vegeta, who accidentally created the OSSG(but with Yamoshi's contribution).
5. This Saiyan, which name is unknown, battled aganist evil Saiyans who were Oozarus, but due to the time limit of the form, ultimately lost to them.
6. Yamoshi's spirit continued to wander and some Namekian elders sympathized with it, so they could make the record in the Namekian Book of Legends of how to perform the ritual.
7. Beerus was told by Yogengyo that after 39 years he will meet his worthy foe and goes for his slumber.
8. Beerus sensed Yamoshi's spirit and had a dream about the Super Saiyan God.
9. Beerus wakes up and acutally meets Goku who was able to become this God with the help of Shenron's tale(from the Namekian Book of Legends), which only includes Planet Vegeta's Super Saiyan God's appearance and the way to summon it.

Is this the way it supposed to be?
Sounds about right.

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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by Grimlock » Sun May 20, 2018 1:56 pm

Yeah, it is pretty much it.
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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun May 20, 2018 6:38 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Low Tone G wrote:but interestingly enough neither the anime, nor Toriyama mentions that a Super Saiyan God once appeared before, but the movie does... Hm...? :roll:
Actually, Toriyama mentions through Dragon Ball Minus and Movie 14, Freeza knows about Super Saiyan God as we see it in the former, which obviously means that someone has transformed into it before.

This is why retellings shouldn't have been made, they just create unnecessary differences and a whole new continuity just to confuse a lot of people... Let's just stick with works that we know for sure Toriyama was fully involved, shall we?
Except Toriyama wasn't fully involved with BoG movie either, he still shares script credit.

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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by OLKv3 » Sun May 20, 2018 8:20 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Grimlock wrote:
Low Tone G wrote:but interestingly enough neither the anime, nor Toriyama mentions that a Super Saiyan God once appeared before, but the movie does... Hm...? :roll:
Actually, Toriyama mentions through Dragon Ball Minus and Movie 14, Freeza knows about Super Saiyan God as we see it in the former, which obviously means that someone has transformed into it before.

This is why retellings shouldn't have been made, they just create unnecessary differences and a whole new continuity just to confuse a lot of people... Let's just stick with works that we know for sure Toriyama was fully involved, shall we?
Except Toriyama wasn't fully involved with BoG movie either, he still shares script credit.
He was also responsible for some of the retelling changes

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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by Grimlock » Sun May 20, 2018 8:45 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Except Toriyama wasn't fully involved with BoG movie either, he still shares script credit.
Yes, he was. The final version of Movie 14 came from him, he might share it only because Toei wrote before him, but in the end, it's his story the one we saw in theaters. The absence of filler characters, like Gregory, and other stuff also proves that Toriyama was way more involved with the movies than with the retellings.
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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by Meshack » Sun May 20, 2018 11:42 pm

Gokou is the second Super Saiyan God. The Saiyan on Planet Vegeta was the first, being mentioned in Battle of Gods. Yamoshi died but was the legendary Super Saiyan.

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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by Meshack » Sun May 20, 2018 11:43 pm

Low Tone G wrote:
Grimlock wrote:No. Yamoshi's spirit wandered in search for the new Saiyan and found it when Saiyans were living in planet Vegeta. It is that flashback we see in Movie 14. Goku is the second one to transform into Super Saiyan God.
Is that simple? So Yamoshi lived on Planet Sadal, then?
Yes, Yamoshi lived on Planet Sadala. Mr. Toriyama said Yamoshi becomjng the Super Saiyan happened before Planet Vegeta was the Saiyans’ home planet. The battle between Yamoshi and the Saiyans probably was the civil war Vegeta was referring to when talking abou tthe destruction of Planet Sadala.

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Re: Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

Post by Meshack » Sun May 20, 2018 11:46 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Low Tone G wrote:but interestingly enough neither the anime, nor Toriyama mentions that a Super Saiyan God once appeared before, but the movie does... Hm...? :roll:
Actually, Toriyama mentions through Dragon Ball Minus and Movie 14, Freeza knows about Super Saiyan God as we see it in the former, which obviously means that someone has transformed into it before.

This is why retellings shouldn't have been made, they just create unnecessary differences and a whole new continuity just to confuse a lot of people... Let's just stick with works that we know for sure Toriyama was fully involved, shall we?
It’s only confusing if you don’t understand. The movies and Super are connected. They’re both canon. There’re just minor differences to distinguish them from the other.

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