Is Goku the first & original Super Saiyan God?

[Meshack]

but interestingly enough neither the anime, nor Toriyama mentions that a Super Saiyan God once appeared before, but the movie does... Hm...?

Freeza knows about Super Saiyan God as well, as we see it in Dragon Ball Minus, which obviously means that someone has transformed into it before.

This is why retellings shouldn't have been made, they just create unnecessary differences and a whole new continuity just to confuse a lot of people... Let's just stick with works that we know for sure Toriyama was fully involved, shall we?

So to build the full story up:
1. On Planet Sadal of Universe 7 Yamoshi and some of his fellow Saiyans were righteous and rebelled against evil onces. He managed to become a Super Saiyan, making the debut of the Legendary Super Saiyan.
2. He ran out of energy and was killed by the evil Saiyans.
3. His spirit wandered all over the Universe to find a new savior to stop his people's evil ways, a Super Saiyan God.
4. At one point he finds six good Saiyans on Planet Vegeta, who accidentally created the OSSG(but with Yamoshi's contribution).
5. This Saiyan, which name is unknown, battled aganist evil Saiyans who were Oozarus, but due to the time limit of the form, ultimately lost to them.
6. Yamoshi's spirit continued to wander and some Namekian elders sympathized with it, so they could make the record in the Namekian Book of Legends of how to perform the ritual.
7. Beerus was told by Yogengyo that after 39 years he will meet his worthy foe and goes for his slumber.
8. Beerus sensed Yamoshi's spirit and had a dream about the Super Saiyan God.
9. Beerus wakes up and acutally meets Goku who was able to become this God with the help of Shenron's tale(from the Namekian Book of Legends), which only includes Planet Vegeta's Super Saiyan God's appearance and the way to summon it.

Is this the way it supposed to be?

We’re not tokd what happened with Yamoshi's spirit after the battle of Planet Vegeta but it most likely wandered again. However, Mr. Toriyama just said Beerus picked on on his spirit. Everything you have is correct though. Shenron tells them the story of the Saiyan in Battle of Gods but not Super. He still got it from the book of legends.

[Meshack]

No, but Goku and Vegeta probably are the first SS Blue ever, though

Definitely

[Grimlock]

The movies and Super are connected.

No, it is not possible to experience the same events more than once, in this case and for example, to meet Beerus twice or more times. The characters do not even acknowledge this, they are all experiecing the events for the first time in all continuities. Besides, they cannot be in two different places at the same time. Gotenks did not fight Beerus using all his transformations, he either used his base form (anime), Super Saiyan form (movie) or Super Saiyan 3 form (manga).

They’re both canon.

No, they are not. Firstly because there is no canon in this franchise and secondly because even if there was, the movies would stand out, as they came directly from Toriyama.

Also, you may want to stop submitting a lot of posts at once. Say what you want to say in a single and organized post.

[Low Tone G]

The movies and Super are connected.

No, it is not possible to experience the same events more than once, in this case and for example, to meet Beerus twice or more times. The characters do not even acknowledge this, they are all experiecing the events for the first time in all continuities. Besides, they cannot be in two different places at the same time. Gotenks did not fight Beerus using all his transformations, he either used his base form (anime), Super Saiyan form (movie) or Super Saiyan 3 form (manga).

They’re both canon.

No, they are not. Firstly because there is no canon in this franchise and secondly because even if there was, the movies would stand out, as they came directly from Toriyama.

Also, you may want to stop submitting a lot of posts at once. Say what you want to say in a single and organized post.

So what Toriyama aknowledges:
1. There was this righteous man, Yamoshi.
2. He started the Legend of the Super Saiyan, and he was "seed" for the Super Saiyan God to be possible.
3. He is the inventor of the six pure harted Saiyan ritual.
4. The Namekian Book of Legends exists in his view, containing the description of the ritual.
5. Yamoshi is the cause of Beerus' dream.

So we got no confirmation:
1. Yamoshi turning into a SSG himself?
2. Has ever been another Super Saiyan God before Goku become one on Planet Vegeta?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So what Toriyama aknowledges:
1. There was this righteous man, Yamoshi.
2. He started the Legend of the Super Saiyan, and he was "seed" for the Super Saiyan God to be possible.
3. He is the inventor of the six pure harted Saiyan ritual.
4. The Namekian Book of Legends exists in his view, containing the description of the ritual.
5. Yamoshi is the cause of Beerus' dream.

So we got no confirmation:
1. Yamoshi turning into a SSG himself?
2. Has ever been another Super Saiyan God before Goku become one on Planet Vegeta?

Well, we actually do have confirmation on the last two.

The first, Yamoshi DIED. Dead. Overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of the asshole Saiyans. His soul wandered as a spirit instead of going to Otherworld.

The second, the question was phrased to refer to the Super Saiyan God that appeared over Planet Vegeta described in the movie version of events by Shenron; the interviewer asked if the Legendary Super Saiyan and the original Super Saiyan God were the same. Toriyama only said "in a sense", then went on to describe Yamoshi's backstory and how he makes the SSG ritual possible; they aren't literally the same person, just that Yamoshi is, in a sense, all of the SSGs because his wandering spirit allows a ritual to be performed.

[Low Tone G]

So what Toriyama aknowledges:
1. There was this righteous man, Yamoshi.
2. He started the Legend of the Super Saiyan, and he was "seed" for the Super Saiyan God to be possible.
3. He is the inventor of the six pure harted Saiyan ritual.
4. The Namekian Book of Legends exists in his view, containing the description of the ritual.
5. Yamoshi is the cause of Beerus' dream.

So we got no confirmation:
1. Yamoshi turning into a SSG himself?
2. Has ever been another Super Saiyan God before Goku become one on Planet Vegeta?

Well, we actually do have confirmation on the last two.

The first, Yamoshi DIED. Dead. Overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of the asshole Saiyans. His soul wandered as a spirit instead of going to Otherworld.

The second, the question was phrased to refer to the Super Saiyan God that appeared over Planet Vegeta described in the movie version of events by Shenron; the interviewer asked if the Legendary Super Saiyan and the original Super Saiyan God were the same. Toriyama only said "in a sense", then went on to describe Yamoshi's backstory and how he makes the SSG ritual possible; they aren't literally the same person, just that Yamoshi is, in a sense, all of the SSGs because his wandering spirit allows a ritual to be performed.

As a of now, I'm positive that upcoming movie will feature planet Sadala for U7, as is already confirmed that at least one new planet will be featured. I think Yamoshi will be referenced if not completely be the main protagonist in he plain of the past.
Toriyama has a terrible history to spoiler backstory's, characters, events, just like he did with Gine, and Beerus to seal away the old Kai way before the proper release of these.

[shadowfox87]

The interview already answers that question. It specifically asks if the Super Saiyan that Freeza feared and the SSG that appeared in BoG the same. Toriyama answers "in a sense", they are the same person, Yamoshi. Yamoshi however is the first SSJ in history long before Planet Vegeta. In the BoG movie, Shenlon's flashback shows a SSG on Planet Vegeta, not the saiyans' home planet - Sadal. Toriyama literally states before Planet Vegeta. Yamoshi's spirit wandered in search of a new warrior - the SSG. His spirit continued to wander all the way up to BoG.

Some people are going to say that Yamoshi's spirit wandered and found an unknown saiyan on Planet Vegeta and this saiyan becomes the first SSG. However, that makes absolutely no sense. The story on Planet Sadal was about an internal conflict between the saiyans. Yamoshi and his five comrades led a rebellion. It's consistent. The anime nor the manga showed this flashback shown in the BoG movie. If there was another SSG before Goku on Planet Vegeta, don't you think Freeza would have known or feared about it? The legend of the SSG was not there, even Vegeta didn't know what it was. It means the legend predated Planet Vegeta.

What does this mean? It means that the BoG is wrong and got retconned with subsequent anime and manga. Or it could mean that BoG movie made a typo and meant to say Planet Sadal not Vegeta, but at that time, the name Sadal wasn't even picked! Toriyama's interview is consistent with the anime and manga. It is not consistent with the BoG movie. I'm not sure why people are trying to take a movie as gospel when in the past, we never considered movies as canon. Yes, Toriyama wrote the story, but he did for the anime and manga as well. The anime and manga came AFTER the movie, so it is the most recent version of the story and I would rather go by that.

So to conclude, yes Goku is the first SSG because previously, it was just a legend and theortical. When asked if Shenlon could bring a SSG here, Shenlon said he can't because it doesn't exist anymore since it never happened. The legend of the SSG was put in the Namekian book of legends. This is because Yamoshi had five comrades. In a last effort before he died, his five comrades probably tried to give him energy, and by accident he may have discovered the SSG, but by then it was too late. He was outnumbered and defeated.

That's how I think of it but the movie in Dec. 14th may shed some light later on what exactly happened on Planet Sadal before it exploded.

[Low Tone G]

The interview already answers that question. It specifically asks if the Super Saiyan that Freeza feared and the SSG that appeared in BoG the same. Toriyama answers "in a sense", they are the same person, Yamoshi. Yamoshi however is the first SSJ in history long before Planet Vegeta. In the BoG movie, Shenlon's flashback shows a SSG on Planet Vegeta, not the saiyans' home planet - Sadal. Toriyama literally states before Planet Vegeta. Yamoshi's spirit wandered in search of a new warrior - the SSG. His spirit continued to wander all the way up to BoG.

Some people are going to say that Yamoshi's spirit wandered and found an unknown saiyan on Planet Vegeta and this saiyan becomes the first SSG. However, that makes absolutely no sense. The story on Planet Sadal was about an internal conflict between the saiyans. Yamoshi and his five comrades led a rebellion. It's consistent. The anime nor the manga showed this flashback shown in the BoG movie. If there was another SSG before Goku on Planet Vegeta, don't you think Freeza would have known or feared about it? The legend of the SSG was not there, even Vegeta didn't know what it was. It means the legend predated Planet Vegeta.

What does this mean? It means that the BoG is wrong and got retconned with subsequent anime and manga. Or it could mean that BoG movie made a typo and meant to say Planet Sadal not Vegeta, but at that time, the name Sadal wasn't even picked! Toriyama's interview is consistent with the anime and manga. It is not consistent with the BoG movie. I'm not sure why people are trying to take a movie as gospel when in the past, we never considered movies as canon. Yes, Toriyama wrote the story, but he did for the anime and manga as well. The anime and manga came AFTER the movie, so it is the most recent version of the story and I would rather go by that.

So to conclude, yes Goku is the first SSG because previously, it was just a legend and theortical. When asked if Shenlon could bring a SSG here, Shenlon said he can't because it doesn't exist anymore since it never happened. The legend of the SSG was put in the Namekian book of legends. This is because Yamoshi had five comrades. In a last effort before he died, his five comrades probably tried to give him energy, and by accident he may have discovered the SSG, but by then it was too late. He was outnumbered and defeated.

That's how I think of it but the movie in Dec. 14th may shed some light later on what exactly happened on Planet Sadal before it exploded.

But Freeza knew and feared the Super Saiyan God legend as he mentioned it in the Dragon Ball Minus chapter...

But yeah, on the rest, this is pretty much what I've always thought myself too.

I think it's redundant to have a story taking place twice in the same way, before Goku finally succeeded to get the benefits of the SSG legend.
Namely:
Yamoshi failed to win against evil Saiyans having 5 comrades and the story repeats itself with the unknown Saiyan. I think Yamoshi's spirit nature is the cause of the SSJ God to be a possibility, and it's seems like a mythological tranformation, easily the most aesthetically pleasing one like is from the Heaven itself...

I think the number of "six" has nothing to do with being the magical component of the ritual, but Yamoshi's spirit is and also his willingness to save his race from evil and to avenge his lost 5 comrades.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

The interview already answers that question. It specifically asks if the Super Saiyan that Freeza feared and the SSG that appeared in BoG the same. Toriyama answers "in a sense", they are the same person, Yamoshi. Yamoshi however is the first SSJ in history long before Planet Vegeta. In the BoG movie, Shenlon's flashback shows a SSG on Planet Vegeta, not the saiyans' home planet - Sadal. Toriyama literally states before Planet Vegeta. Yamoshi's spirit wandered in search of a new warrior - the SSG. His spirit continued to wander all the way up to BoG.

Some people are going to say that Yamoshi's spirit wandered and found an unknown saiyan on Planet Vegeta and this saiyan becomes the first SSG. However, that makes absolutely no sense. The story on Planet Sadal was about an internal conflict between the saiyans. Yamoshi and his five comrades led a rebellion. It's consistent. The anime nor the manga showed this flashback shown in the BoG movie. If there was another SSG before Goku on Planet Vegeta, don't you think Freeza would have known or feared about it? The legend of the SSG was not there, even Vegeta didn't know what it was. It means the legend predated Planet Vegeta.

What does this mean? It means that the BoG is wrong and got retconned with subsequent anime and manga. Or it could mean that BoG movie made a typo and meant to say Planet Sadal not Vegeta, but at that time, the name Sadal wasn't even picked! Toriyama's interview is consistent with the anime and manga. It is not consistent with the BoG movie. I'm not sure why people are trying to take a movie as gospel when in the past, we never considered movies as canon. Yes, Toriyama wrote the story, but he did for the anime and manga as well. The anime and manga came AFTER the movie, so it is the most recent version of the story and I would rather go by that.

So to conclude, yes Goku is the first SSG because previously, it was just a legend and theortical. When asked if Shenlon could bring a SSG here, Shenlon said he can't because it doesn't exist anymore since it never happened. The legend of the SSG was put in the Namekian book of legends. This is because Yamoshi had five comrades. In a last effort before he died, his five comrades probably tried to give him energy, and by accident he may have discovered the SSG, but by then it was too late. He was outnumbered and defeated.

That's how I think of it but the movie in Dec. 14th may shed some light later on what exactly happened on Planet Sadal before it exploded.

You're messing up the context and mixing information up erroneously.

Even in the movie, despite a Super Saiyan God ACTUALLY BEING SHOWN AND KNOWN TO HAVE APPEARED, Vegeta had no idea about such a legend or the individual in question; DB Minus also shows that Freeza had some idea of SSG, but he only feared the Legendary Super Saiyan legend. As well, the original SSG mentioned in the film fought the evil Saiyans while they were Great Apes and thus not in control of themselves i.e. unable to hold memories of their battle with the SSG. Therefore, these points can't be used to form part of your argument.

As well, Shenron in the anime only ever says that a Super Saiyan God doesn't currently exist, not that there was never one before, and thus he couldn't summon one forth because there wasn't one in existence at the moment; you've bent and twisted the dialogue when it never stated anything as such. Additionally, the interview specifically talks about the SSG in the movie, as a SSG separate from Goku was only ever mentioned in the film; him not being mentioned in the anime doesn't mean he doesn't exist at all in that continuity, merely that the medium never actually said it during its runtime.

The simplest answer that keeps everything consistent is that, whilst the anime is the primary continuity in consideration, the information Toriyama provided in the interview supplements it whilst that singular moment from the movie where a SSG appears over Planet Vegeta is also in continuity albeit an unmentioned one in the anime; it's like how Toriyama directly contradicted his original manga's explanation for Majin Buu by retconning his origins as a primordial being of destruction instead of a creation of Bibidi.

[Grimlock]

I think it's redundant to have a story taking place twice in the same way.

Yeah, because it is not redudant two World Wars, right? Peaceful Saiyans coexsisted with "evil" Saiyans, it shouldn't be a surprise that from time to time they would fight each other, but yeah... It's redudant.

[Low Tone G]

I think it's redundant to have a story taking place twice in the same way.

Yeah, because it is not redudant two World Wars, right? Peaceful Saiyans coexsisted with "evil" Saiyans, it shouldn't be a surprise that from time to time they would fight each other, but yeah... It's redudant.

Yeah, it seems logical, but as we know Toriyama, he probably wouldn't write the same story twice with really minor changes... That's it what I meant by word "redundant".

[shadowfox87]

You're messing up the context and mixing information up erroneously.

As well, Shenron in the anime only ever says that a Super Saiyan God doesn't currently exist, not that there was never one before, and thus he couldn't summon one forth because there wasn't one in existence at the moment; you've bent and twisted the dialogue when it never stated anything as such. Additionally, the interview specifically talks about the SSG in the movie, as a SSG separate from Goku was only ever mentioned in the film; him not being mentioned in the anime doesn't mean he doesn't exist at all in that continuity, merely that the medium never actually said it during its runtime.

The simplest answer that keeps everything consistent is that, whilst the anime is the primary continuity in consideration, the information Toriyama provided in the interview supplements it whilst that singular moment from the movie where a SSG appears over Planet Vegeta is also in continuity albeit an unmentioned one in the anime;

Yes, page 7 of DB Minus, original Viz scans, shows that Freeza did say "Super Saiyan God":
Let's say that the first SSG happened on Planet Vegeta. That is, Yamoshi's spirit found another warrior on Planet Vegeta. That there was another civil war between the saiyans after Sadal. The same exact story of another warrior with five comrades leading another rebellion. Let's also say this happened long before Freeza came to Planet Vegeta.

According to this interview question, the story that was written in the Namekian Book of Legends was of Yamoshi's not this other warrior on Planet Vegeta who supposedly turned into an SSG. Shenlon is reciting the story that he knows since it was written in the Namekian Book of Legends. If that is true, why would he suddenly talk about another warrior who turned SSG on Planet Vegeta? The Namekian elder recorded both events of Yamoshi and the SSG on Planet Vegeta? Neither the anime nor the manga ever state "Planet Vegeta" or show the flashback in the BoG movie. In addition, since all this confusion is stemming from the BoG movie, the depiction of the SSG in Beerus' prophetic dream matched that of the saiyan showed in Shenlon's flashback. Yet, in this interview, it states that it was Yamoshi's spirit that was in Beerus' dream.

I'm not discounting the possibility that the first SSG occurred on Planet Vegeta, but it's very lazy writing. I'm also not discounting the possibility that BoG just got retconned. Toriyama's interview, the anime, and the manga came after the BoG movie. Movies have never been canon before but BoG is considered canon since Toriyama was involved with the story. However, he is also involved with the anime and manga which are more recent than the BoG movie. The BoG created many plot holes like Beerus using 70% of his strength against a SSG. I'm not sure why it's difficult to fathom and accept that maybe the BoG just made a mistake.

As well, the original SSG mentioned in the film fought the evil Saiyans while they were Great Apes and thus not in control of themselves i.e. unable to hold memories of their battle with the SSG. Therefore, these points can't be used to form part of your argument.

This is not necessarily true. Initially, saiyans who haven't mastered Oozaru cannot control themselves and don't have any memories. However, we've seen Vegeta from the saiyan saga have complete control and retained all his memories. It's an assumption to say that adult saiyans who lived on Planet Sadal and fought in the war wouldn't have the same mastery over Oozaru. The points don't invalidate anything because this notion in itself is an assumption.

it's like how Toriyama directly contradicted his original manga's explanation for Majin Buu by retconning his origins as a primordial being of destruction instead of a creation of Bibidi.

Toriyama did not contradict the original manga's explanation for Buu. It was a character in the manga who was telling the origins of Buu, but it's not necessary that the words out of a characters mouth are fact. Characters have incomplete knowledge of subjects. The Elder Kai thought that a Potara fusion would be permanent but he did not know that is only the case if one of the fusees is a Kaioshin. Beerus thought that by doing hakai on Zamasu, it would eliminate all other versions of Zamasu in other timelines. For the same reason, Buu existed since time immemorial is out of Toriyama's mouth who is the author, so it trumps any explanation of his origins from a characters mouth.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

If I'm recalling correctly, only elites like Vegeta and Nappa actually had control over their Great Ape forms; low-class warriors i.e. most of the Saiyans didn't.

Not to mention that Yamoshi AND the original SSG in the movie version of Battle of Gods (as there's logically no other one that the interviewer could be referring to) are mentioned in the exact same interview, with Toriyama specifically clarifying the relationship and the context behind it.

Tell me, why would he bother addressing the topic as though it existed in the first place if that particular event never happened in the updated continuity? Not to mention that your own examples and interpretations of unreliable information-givers show that the two ideas aren't mutually exclusive; the Namekian Elder and Beerus simply could've never learned about the original SSG that appeared over Planet Vegeta, like how Elder Kaioshin never learned that the Potara Earrings weren't permanent for mortals even though that was the reality as we later learned in DBS.

Nobody who actually knows what they're saying (i.e. me) is saying that the movie happened and the anime didn't, or that both somehow happened and are canon; we're (i.e. me) saying that the original SSG that appeared over Planet Vegeta is still in continuity, he just was never mentioned in the anime or manga version of events.

Heck, before Toriyama brought it up in the interview, plenty of people were saying that the Namekian Book of Legends was just an "anime-ism" done to service the anime's plot and was never gonna be "canon" to the primary story, yet Toriyama ended up making it canon upon uttering its name in the interview; the same is true of the original SSG. He addressed the original SSG that was only ever mentioned in the movie as part of the primary continuity, not as some separate canon.

The headcanon is people thinking that information present in one version of events is exclusive to that version and never happens at all in others; as adaptations, this is a bad assumption to make given that the creators are free to pull information from one adaptation to service another. Heck, the anime and manga show clear examples of this; despite the anime never really mentioning it before, in the Tournament of Power, it suddenly utilized the "SSG has better stamina than SSB" concept that Toyotaro used in his manga early on. The creators of both shared ideas and pulled from each other's mediums; Toriyama did the same when the interviewer brought up movie questions by combining information from the movie and the anime.

[Marlowe89]

Regardless of whether the Planet Vegeta story holds true for Super in particular, I think one needs to admit it's pretty bizarre that both the anime and manga would omit something like that. It does open up the possibility that yet another retcon was applied, and it wouldn't be the only time such a thing occurred between the movies and their TV adaptations.

Goku being the original Super Saiyan God isn't necessarily true, but I wouldn't say it's necessarily false at this juncture either.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Regardless of whether the Planet Vegeta story holds true for Super in particular, I think one needs to admit it's pretty bizarre that both the anime and manga would omit something like that. It does open up the possibility that yet another retcon was applied, and it wouldn't be the only time such a thing occurred between the movies and their TV adaptations.

Goku being the original Super Saiyan God isn't necessarily true, but I wouldn't say it's necessarily false at this juncture either.

I can understand the confusion around this, yeah, even though I think it's already crystal clear based solely on the contextual cues provided by the interview.

At least the misconception of Yamoshi actually BEING a SSG is dying down.

[Meshack]

The movies and Super are connected.

No, it is not possible to experience the same events more than once, in this case and for example, to meet Beerus twice or more times. The characters do not even acknowledge this, they are all experiecing the events for the first time in all continuities. Besides, they cannot be in two different places at the same time. Gotenks did not fight Beerus using all his transformations, he either used his base form (anime), Super Saiyan form (movie) or Super Saiyan 3 form (manga).

They’re both canon.

No, they are not. Firstly because there is no canon in this franchise and secondly because even if there was, the movies would stand out, as they came directly from Toriyama.

Also, you may want to stop submitting a lot of posts at once. Say what you want to say in a single and organized post.

So what Toriyama aknowledges:
1. There was this righteous man, Yamoshi.
2. He started the Legend of the Super Saiyan, and he was "seed" for the Super Saiyan God to be possible.
3. He is the inventor of the six pure harted Saiyan ritual.
4. The Namekian Book of Legends exists in his view, containing the description of the ritual.
5. Yamoshi is the cause of Beerus' dream.

So we got no confirmation:
1. Yamoshi turning into a SSG himself?
2. Has ever been another Super Saiyan God before Goku become one on Planet Vegeta?

Yes. Battle of Gods mentions the first Super Saiyan God.

How can Yamoshi become a Super Saiyan God if he’s dead?

[Meshack]

The movies and Super are connected.

No, it is not possible to experience the same events more than once, in this case and for example, to meet Beerus twice or more times. The characters do not even acknowledge this, they are all experiecing the events for the first time in all continuities. Besides, they cannot be in two different places at the same time. Gotenks did not fight Beerus using all his transformations, he either used his base form (anime), Super Saiyan form (movie) or Super Saiyan 3 form (manga).

They’re both canon.

No, they are not. Firstly because there is no canon in this franchise and secondly because even if there was, the movies would stand out, as they came directly from Toriyama.

Also, you may want to stop submitting a lot of posts at once. Say what you want to say in a single and organized post.

They aren’t experiencing the same events several times. It doesn’t matter where Bulma's party took place, it doesn’t matter if Gokou became a Super Saiyan God against Hit or Blue Kaiohken. What matters is the big events such as Gokou losing to Beerus after achieving God, Monaka winning against Hit, Trunks losing his world, No. 17 wins the Tournament of Power. These minor details don’t matter. There’re differences between both the Super comic and the animated version. Does that mean one is more canon than the other? No.

[Meshack]

If I'm recalling correctly, only elites like Vegeta and Nappa actually had control over their Great Ape forms; low-class warriors i.e. most of the Saiyans didn't.

Not to mention that Yamoshi AND the original SSG in the movie version of Battle of Gods (as there's logically no other one that the interviewer could be referring to) are mentioned in the exact same interview, with Toriyama specifically clarifying the relationship and the context behind it.

Tell me, why would he bother addressing the topic as though it existed in the first place if that particular event never happened in the updated continuity? Not to mention that your own examples and interpretations of unreliable information-givers show that the two ideas aren't mutually exclusive; the Namekian Elder and Beerus simply could've never learned about the original SSG that appeared over Planet Vegeta, like how Elder Kaioshin never learned that the Potara Earrings weren't permanent for mortals even though that was the reality as we later learned in DBS.

Nobody who actually knows what they're saying (i.e. me) is saying that the movie happened and the anime didn't, or that both somehow happened and are canon; we're (i.e. me) saying that the original SSG that appeared over Planet Vegeta is still in continuity, he just was never mentioned in the anime or manga version of events.

Heck, before Toriyama brought it up in the interview, plenty of people were saying that the Namekian Book of Legends was just an "anime-ism" done to service the anime's plot and was never gonna be "canon" to the primary story, yet Toriyama ended up making it canon upon uttering its name in the interview; the same is true of the original SSG. He addressed the original SSG that was only ever mentioned in the movie as part of the primary continuity, not as some separate canon.

The headcanon is people thinking that information present in one version of events is exclusive to that version and never happens at all in others; as adaptations, this is a bad assumption to make given that the creators are free to pull information from one adaptation to service another. Heck, the anime and manga show clear examples of this; despite the anime never really mentioning it before, in the Tournament of Power, it suddenly utilized the "SSG has better stamina than SSB" concept that Toyotaro used in his manga early on. The creators of both shared ideas and pulled from each other's mediums; Toriyama did the same when the interviewer brought up movie questions by combining information from the movie and the anime.

Exactliando.

[Grimlock]

It doesn’t matter where Bulma's party took place, it doesn’t matter if Gokou became a Super Saiyan God against Hit or Blue Kaiohken.

These minor details don’t matter

You call these "minor details"? God... Oh, well. I think this is just another way to appreciate the franchise, but damn if it isn't full of controversy.

What matters is the big events such as Gokou losing to Beerus after achieving God, Monaka winning against Hit, Trunks losing his world, No. 17 wins the Tournament of Power. There’re differences between both the Super comic and the animated version.

Got it, to you, it only matters how the story ends. If it's the same ending, then it makes sense to you at the end of the day, it doesn't matter the means, even it has huge plotholes with one another, the end is all that matter. Well, what can I say? I do have some bad news to you but I'm aware this is just another way to appreciate the series, as I mentioned early, so I'll leave it at that.

[Meshack]

It doesn’t matter where Bulma's party took place, it doesn’t matter if Gokou became a Super Saiyan God against Hit or Blue Kaiohken.

These minor details don’t matter

You call these "minor details"? God... Oh, well. I think this is just another way to appreciate the franchise, but damn if it isn't full controversy.

What matters is the big events such as Gokou losing to Beerus after achieving God, Monaka winning against Hit, Trunks losing his world, No. 17 wins the Tournament of Power. There’re differences between both the Super comic and the animated version.

Got it, to you, it only matters how the story ends. If it's the same ending, then it makes sense to you at the end of the day, it doesn't matter the means, even it has huge plotholes, the end is all that matter. What can I say? I do have some bad news to you but I'm aware this is just another way to appreciate the series, as I mentioned early, so I'll leave it at that.

I was saying in the grand scheme of things. Anyway, Gokou going God isn’t a plot hole (it seems you believe it is.) Gokou obviously needs to use the power of God to transform into Blue. If he didn’t then he wouldn’t be able to use Super Saiyan, SS2, and SS3