Should Piccolo have trained with Whis?

[PsionicWarrior]

Yeah, training with someone stronger than yourself gives faster results than training alone, the latter is still doable but takes more time lol

[omaro34]

Whis doesn't like piccolo. Ever since their interaction in battle of gods where Piccolo grabbed his arm, Whis hardly acknowledged his presence ever since.

[HeroR]

He is literary the strongest being in U7. It's been stated already that having a strong training partner is more beneficial than training alone. By god-level training I meant that they were going up against someone of that level of power, not that there was something special about how Whis was training them.

Anyway, plot determines power, and Toriyama himself stated that DB is the type of story where anything is possible. He could have Choautzu reach SSB level next if he wanted to.

So? As Whis himself said, Goku and Vegeta didn't really need him since they improved themselves better sparring with each other than they did sparring him. Which is why he said they could just spar at home. Also, by that logic Trunks and Vegeta should have improved more than Goku in the Cell Saga since they sparred with each other, while Goku only had Gohan who was vastly weaker for months before he got Super Saiyan and they didn't even used the entire year.

[Simere]

Whis' training actually isn't that special since Whis himself lampshaded in Resurrection 'F' that Goku and Vegeta can get stronger on their own by training in a park. So this who 'god-training' is really fandom, especially since most of the training is just them sparring against Whis or themselves.

He is literary the strongest being in U7. It's been stated already that having a strong training partner is more beneficial than training alone. By god-level training I meant that they were going up against someone of that level of power, not that there was something special about how Whis was training them.

Anyway, plot determines power, and Toriyama himself stated that DB is the type of story where anything is possible. He could have Choautzu reach SSB level next if he wanted to.

Whis's literary strength might be high, but I think Zuno is the strongest.

[Zephyr]

Trunks and Vegeta should have improved more than Goku in the Cell Saga since they sparred with each other, while Goku only had Gohan who was vastly weaker for months before he got Super Saiyan and they didn't even used the entire year.

Yes, Goku only had Gohan, who, not even by the end of a year (as you said, they didn't even use their entire time), was stronger than everyone else. The difference in methodology for training in general, and for improving Super Saiyan specifically, that both families demonstrated is also a fairly obvious factor in the resulting power differences.

[Michsi]

He is literary the strongest being in U7. It's been stated already that having a strong training partner is more beneficial than training alone. By god-level training I meant that they were going up against someone of that level of power, not that there was something special about how Whis was training them.

Anyway, plot determines power, and Toriyama himself stated that DB is the type of story where anything is possible. He could have Choautzu reach SSB level next if he wanted to.

So? As Whis himself said, Goku and Vegeta didn't really need him since they improved themselves better sparring with each other than they did sparring him. Which is why he said they could just spar at home. Also, by that logic Trunks and Vegeta should have improved more than Goku in the Cell Saga since they sparred with each other, while Goku only had Gohan who was vastly weaker for months before he got Super Saiyan and they didn't even used the entire year.

I have a hard time believing that, but again proves my point about having a sparring partner and that the caliber of that spar partner matters. Of course they could get stronger on their own, that's what training does, but would growth rate be just as big? I assume they seek him out for a reason. As for your example: Gohan was weaker than both Vegeta and Trunks, and yet he leaves the room stronger than either of them and that's because he sparred with Goku. Sparring partner matters, and so does the strength of that partner.

Anway, my point was plot determines power. If what I saw was correct and 17 confirms that he didn't do any particular training and only protected his island, well, then there we have it.

[PsionicWarrior]

We could also think Whis is lazy and tried to find excuse to avoid training them lol
the partner's strenght definitely matters, as we could see for Goku/Gohan in RoSaT the one who benefited the most from this training was Gohan and not Goku lol

[Michsi]

We could also think Whis is lazy and tried to find excuse to avoid training them lol
the partner's strenght definitely matters, as we could see for Goku/Gohan in RoSaT the one who benefited the most from this training was Gohan and not Goku lol

Most? Yes. However, given the staggering difference between Goku and Vegeta/Trunks, I'd say Goku benefited from it as well. Vegeta and Trunks went in again (individually this time) and still didn't surpass Goku.

[PsionicWarrior]

Not disagreeing with that, I don't get how it goes against my point lol

[Whatever]

Trunks and Vegeta should have improved more than Goku in the Cell Saga since they sparred with each other, while Goku only had Gohan who was vastly weaker for months before he got Super Saiyan and they didn't even used the entire year.

Yes, Goku only had Gohan, who, not even by the end of a year (as you said, they didn't even use their entire time), was stronger than everyone else. The difference in methodology for training in general, and for improving Super Saiyan specifically, that both families demonstrated is also a fairly obvious factor in the resulting power differences.

Not at all,Super Saiyan Grade 2 is superior to Mastered Super saiyan in every way but stamina(since Master Super Saiyan is normal Super Saiyan without the stamina drain).
Goku was weaker than Vegeta pre HTC and Future Trunks was way stronger than Gohan,it was just Goku and Gohan abusing their protagonist perks by getting stronger than everybody with less effort.

Also i don't think Vegeta and Trunks mentioned sparring with each other unless i am forgeting something.

[Zephyr]

Super Saiyan Grade 2 is superior to Mastered Super saiyan in every way but stamina(since Master Super Saiyan is normal Super Saiyan without the stamina drain).
Goku was weaker than Vegeta pre HTC and Future Trunks was way stronger than Gohan,it was just Goku and Gohan abusing their protagonist perks by getting stronger than everybody with less effort.

I dunno, every time Goku or Gohan power up after exiting the RoSaT, Vegeta's stunned, sweating, and shaking. Not the reaction I'd expect from someone who could just one-up that. I wouldn't let non-story information like multipliers and form distinctions get in the way of seeing what the actual story itself presents.

Yeah, Goku and Gohan are the protagonists, but the story gives more than enough subtext and explicit explanation to justify their first place standing. Gohan sparred with Goku, who is (at bare minimum, and no way by a huge amount) the second strongest member of their team (which explains the massive gains he got so quickly), and, after a certain point, Goku sparred with the strongest member of their team (again, massive gains), while, like you pointed out, Vegeta and Trunks just did their own things. Meanwhile, Goku put more thought into their advancement method, while Vegeta and Trunks went for the brute force method of "just power up more". Call it less effort if you want, but it sounds more like they just figured out and utilized smarter and quicker ways to grow.

And don't forget who Gohan is; introduced to the story as the toddler who was twice as strong as Goku. The only reason he was never top dog before was because he wasn't utilizing all of the cutting edge training and power-up methods that Goku was (insane gravity training, Kaio-ken, Super Saiyan, etc). That he gained as much power as he did when he actually utilized them is as logical and straightforward and sensible as Dragon Ball could possibly get.

[Whatever]

I dunno, every time Goku or Gohan power up after exiting the RoSaT, Vegeta's stunned, sweating, and shaking. Not the reaction I'd expect from someone who could just one-up that. I wouldn't let non-story information like multipliers and form distinctions get in the way of seeing what the actual story itself presents.

I never said that Vegeta was stronger than Goku post Rosat,i just said that Super Saiyan Grade 2 is a stronger form than Mastered Super Saiyan.
Goku was stronger than Vegeta yeah but not because he has a superior form,thats because he was simply stronger.

Yeah, Goku and Gohan are the protagonists, but the story gives more than enough subtext and explicit explanation to justify their first place standing. Gohan sparred with Goku, who is (at bare minimum, and no way by a huge amount) the second strongest member of their team (which explains the massive gains he got so quickly), and, after a certain point, Goku sparred with the strongest member of their team (again, massive gains), while, like you pointed out, Vegeta and Trunks just did their own things. Meanwhile, Goku put more thought into their advancement method, while Vegeta and Trunks went for the brute force method of "just power up more". Call it less effort if you want, but it sounds more like they just figured out and utilized smarter and quicker ways to grow.

The way the story presented it is like this:
Super Saiyan Grade 2:More power and speed than normal super saiyan but uses more stamina
Mastered Super Saiyan:Same power and speed as normal super saiyan but uses less stamina

Then we are being told that somehow by putting less effort than Vegeta and Trunks and using a weaker form Goku and Gohan got stronger than them,yeah making the super saiyan form using less stamina is a good thing but thats pointless in terms of power levels since Grade 2 offers an increase in both power and speed but Mastered Super Saiyan does not.

Unless having a sparring parther is such a big deal but then again Vegeta was the strongest Z fighter pre Rosat before Kamiccolo happened and he trained alone.
Speaking of Kamiccolo he also went into the HTC but still was weaker then Gohan and Goku despite being the strongest pre HTC and you cannot say Piccolo did not train well or something,this is the same guy that got 70-100 times stronger by doing the same training with Goku and Gohan and he had way better gains than them.

And don't forget who Gohan is; introduced to the story as the toddler who was twice as strong as Goku. The only reason he was never top dog before was because he wasn't utilizing all of the cutting edge training and power-up methods that Goku was (insane gravity training, Kaio-ken, Super Saiyan, etc). That he gained as much power as he did when he actually utilized them is as logical and straightforward and sensible as Dragon Ball could possibly get.

Thats because Gohan after Raditz and before the Cell games was just a big fish in a small pond,in the Freeza saga he got potential unlocked,zenkais and rage boost and still could not match up to his opponents.Heck after Goku arrived on Namek he got 2 zenkais and 2 rage boosts and he still could not match up just to base Goku after 1 zenkai.Gohan got more zenkais and rage boosts(and potential unleash) than Goku did on Namek and he still fell short to him.
He even trained together with both Goku and Piccolo and they both still utterly eclipshed him in gains and they both underwent the same training as him.

Then we are shown Future Gohan,a version of Gohan that is a Super Saiyan,trained for years and most likely took multiple zenkais(he must have gotten at the very least one since he had lost an arm)and he still loses to a weaker version of 17.And its not like he did not have a good sparring parther either,Future Trunks was a super saiyan before he died.

Every other time before the Cell games,Gohan was shown being far ahead by the humans but lagging behind Goku,Piccolo,Vegeta and even Future Trunks even when doing the same training or exploting the same things like zenkais or even the extra things he only got like potential unleashed and rage boosts,then suddenly he becomes stronger than all of them by going through the same method of training as them but with way less effort.

[Miracles]

Piccolo even training with Kaiosama would be outstanding. Cause you know they would make him Blue level and blame it on him being a fighting genius too.

[Dbzfan94]

Piccolo even training with Kaiosama would be outstanding. Cause you know they would make him Blue level and blame it on him being a fighting genius too.

Plot twist: King Kai is the real grand priest and mastered Ultra Instinct by driving his car.

[Miracles]

Plot twist: King Kai is the real grand priest and mastered Ultra Instinct by driving his car.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

If they really wanted to develop Picolo, they should have built him up to give Whis incitement to take interest in him. Piccolo could have had a lot to learn from the Nameks or find the creator of the Super Dragonballs to add onto his lore and make him a mythical figure to parallel the Saiyans. Him already being a god should have given him access to something new by now in Whis' knowledge at least. Though I think the mastery of self-movement would have been most beneficial for Piccolo seeing his personality, and his already heavily meditative character, that and the fact he trains against himself. Him not having any potential simply because he doesn't have all these asspull transformations like Saiyans is a bit ridiculous. That shouldn't be the sole standard for potential.