Goku didn't win so much in Super

[PsionicWarrior]

It just hit me lol

In F it was Whis
In FTrunks it was Zeno
In Top it was 17

Sorry if this has already been discussed elsewhere lol

[Miracles]

Wins aren't free in Dragonball.

[sintzu]

That's the best thing about DB as like Miracles said, wins aren't free as they're far and few between. It keeps things interesting and unpredictable.

Kefla was very strong and he beat her so he did get something, just not what you'd expect from a main character.

[BlueVegerot]

Everyone but goku is a massive jobber

[Artorias]

True, yet you will still inexplicably see people complain about how "Goku always wins", even though that literally hasn't even been remotely true for decades.

[Diccolo-420]

True, but the issue isn't necessarily him winning but rather everything always falling to him to beat the main villain in the end, FT arc aside. Eventually it gets old, and it's partly why the tournament of power became stale because we all figured that would be how it would go down: goku getting the glory by getting the ultimate power up to square off against Jiren. It's not gonna change, and it's why I pretty much take any new dragon ball content as just mediocre garbage unless the writers realize that following the same old writing just doesn't cut it anymore

[Bullza]

His Win / Loss record was never that good either.

The Tournament of Power if anything finally did some justice for him in that area. He beat half of the Universe 9 Team by himself. He kicked around Ribrianne. Completely overwhelmed Dyspo and Toppo. Outmatched Kale and Caulifla. Eliminated Kefla. Overpowered the Universe 2 Trio. Won against Jiren.

So he did pretty well there.

[BlueVegerot]

His Win / Loss record was never that good either.

The Tournament of Power if anything finally did some justice for him in that area. He beat half of the Universe 9 Team by himself. He kicked around Ribrianne. Completely overwhelmed Dyspo and Toppo. Outmatched Kale and Caulifla. Eliminated Kefla. Overpowered the Universe 2 Trio. Won against Jiren.

So he did pretty well there.

u9 is weak as hell

Ribrianne is weak as hell

he only overwhelmed then in omen which and it was for 10 seconds

u6 saiyans you are correct.

He won against jiren with help

[SupremeKai25]

Perhaps his most humiliating defeat was that against Zamasu. For two reasons:

- They thought they had won. They foolishly believed that a God the likes of Zamasu would have been so easily defeated by Trunks. And so they lowered their guard, and once Zamasu returned and unleashed his full, terrible power, they were not prepared and could do nothing against him. Such a meaningful defeat, to have your hopes and joy crushed utterly, moments before your friend's world is destroyed;

- It was a silly defeat, since Goku had had the key to victory with him all along. Had he just checked his pockets for once before that moment, they could have ended it before Zamasu merged with the Multiverse. But he didn't check his pockets, because he is a stupid Saiyan.

In the other defeats, Goku didn't look like a fool. In this one, he did. And I am surprised that no one ever told Goku 'You dumbass, billions died because you didn't check your pockets earlier!'. Then again, most people seemed to take it oddly well that an entire timeline was utterly erased from existence, even Trunks in the manga wasn't so bothered that the souls of his friends and family were destroyed.

[Dbzk1999]

True, but the issue isn't necessarily him winning but rather everything always falling to him to beat the main villain in the end, FT arc aside. Eventually it gets old, and it's partly why the tournament of power became stale because we all figured that would be how it would go down: goku getting the glory by getting the ultimate power up to square off against Jiren. It's not gonna change, and it's why I pretty much take any new dragon ball content as just mediocre garbage unless the writers realize that following the same old writing just doesn't cut it anymore

But they didn’t actually “fall to goku” to actually beat Jiren in the end. It fell to the last 3 members of U7

[Diccolo-420]

True, but the issue isn't necessarily him winning but rather everything always falling to him to beat the main villain in the end, FT arc aside. Eventually it gets old, and it's partly why the tournament of power became stale because we all figured that would be how it would go down: goku getting the glory by getting the ultimate power up to square off against Jiren. It's not gonna change, and it's why I pretty much take any new dragon ball content as just mediocre garbage unless the writers realize that following the same old writing just doesn't cut it anymore

But they didn’t actually “fall to goku” to actually beat Jiren in the end. It fell to the last 3 members of U7

My point thought is that Goku get's basically the meat of every battle no matter what. People can say the "he's the main character" card, but the thing is Dragon ball has always pushed the idea of an ensemble cast and then throws it away for Goku. At the very least it should stop pretending to be a show where other characters matter when the writers just circle jerk for Goku

[PFM18]

Yeah that only really applied to GT. In Z and super be didn't really win ALL that much.

[PsionicWarrior]

I'd like to point out that to some extent Goku not winning prevents him from accomplishing stuff lol

[Tai Lung]

normally in z did not defeat anyone alone
gohan defeat cell
trunks defeat frieza
goku defeated buu thanks to earthlings and shenron

but ...
Goku defeated Jiren in combat one by one only he did not get him out of the ring to side effect of UI
17 won the tournament only to stay last, not that he won the fight against jiren

but technically in his 2 fights against frieza goku won him simply chose not to finish him but the fight was already decided

[BlueVegerot]

normally in z did not defeat anyone alone
gohan defeat cell
trunks defeat frieza
goku defeated buu thanks to earthlings and shenron

but ...
Goku defeated Jiren in combat one by one only he did not get him out of the ring to side effect of UI
17 won the tournament only to stay last, not that he won the fight against jiren

but technically in his 2 fights against frieza goku won him simply chose not to finish him but the fight was already decided

Goku didn't beat jiren, his ui running out isn't an excuse.jiren had goku beaten in 128 until ui magically activated on its own yet nobody would give jiren a W for that.

Also goku had freeza on the ropes in RoF but like the dumbass he is, he let his guard down despite whis repeated warnings and jobbed to a ray gun.

He beat freeza on namek with his power and after that its all been L's or team efforts

[Simere]

True, but the issue isn't necessarily him winning but rather everything always falling to him to beat the main villain in the end, FT arc aside. Eventually it gets old, and it's partly why the tournament of power became stale because we all figured that would be how it would go down: goku getting the glory by getting the ultimate power up to square off against Jiren. It's not gonna change, and it's why I pretty much take any new dragon ball content as just mediocre garbage unless the writers realize that following the same old writing just doesn't cut it anymore

But they didn’t actually “fall to goku” to actually beat Jiren in the end. It fell to the last 3 members of U7

My point thought is that Goku get's basically the meat of every battle no matter what. People can say the "he's the main character" card, but the thing is Dragon ball has always pushed the idea of an ensemble cast and then throws it away for Goku. At the very least it should stop pretending to be a show where other characters matter when the writers just circle jerk for Goku

Having a bunch of supporting characters doesn't make a show an ensemble cast, and the only time DB has given the idea that it is an ensemble is in marketing. But you're right, they should stop trying to make characters matter who don't; that's when the mediocre writing is most apparent. And make no mistake, the writing will not be improved if Goku suddenly stopped being the main character.

[Tai Lung]

normally in z did not defeat anyone alone
gohan defeat cell
trunks defeat frieza
goku defeated buu thanks to earthlings and shenron

but ...
Goku defeated Jiren in combat one by one only he did not get him out of the ring to side effect of UI
17 won the tournament only to stay last, not that he won the fight against jiren

but technically in his 2 fights against frieza goku won him simply chose not to finish him but the fight was already decided

Goku didn't beat jiren, his ui running out isn't an excuse.jiren had goku beaten in 128 until ui magically activated on its own yet nobody would give jiren a W for that.

Also goku had freeza on the ropes in RoF but like the dumbass he is, he let his guard down despite whis repeated warnings and jobbed to a ray gun.

He beat freeza on namek with his power and after that its all been L's or team efforts

in fact if it counts as victory of jiren in those 2 occasions I win the combats due to its strength that does not take them out of the ring is something else very different
goku with mastered UI had already defeated him and jiren was lying on the ground
no ... in ROF the fight had already ended that sorbet comes to interrupt is point and apart goku had already won to frieza

in namek frieza was still alive and I kill him trunks

[Logania]

He doesn't win much in Dragon Ball period. He's lost every tournament except one (I'm split for the ToP. His team as a whole won, but he was eliminated at the end) and is out of commission for most of Z, but I don't mind to be honest.

He may not win a lot, but his fights themselves are usually the most memorable in the series compared to the rest of the cast. I'd rather have an awesome fight like Goku vs Cell or Hit, with him having a loss, instead of let's say Vegeta winning against Toppo or Gohan vs Cell and it be boring as all hell.

[Saturnine]

That's what tends to separate the canon stories from the filler. Toriyama is not afraid to NOT have Goku win the day, at the very least going for a team victory or an outright loss. OG DB was the time where Goku took care of most shit personally, Z was a huge change in that regard. To blame for the notion (and creating the expectation of) Goku "always winning" are primarily the theatricals and GT. Many fans refuse to make a distinction between that material and the canon manga, so it largely determines their perception of Goku's character, also when it comes to winning and saving the day.

[Zen Yabuki]

His Win / Loss record was never that good either.

The Tournament of Power if anything finally did some justice for him in that area. He beat half of the Universe 9 Team by himself. He kicked around Ribrianne. Completely overwhelmed Dyspo and Toppo. Outmatched Kale and Caulifla. Eliminated Kefla. Overpowered the Universe 2 Trio. Won against Jiren.

So he did pretty well there.

Even then you could still argue he didn't beat Jiren as while he technically did, their fight ended with Goku needed to be saved from elimination in 130. Then in 131, he and Freeza had to sacrifice themselves to eliminate him, thus forcing a draw between Jiren and Goku/Freeza.