Did the dub make EP 66 clearer?

[Fionordequester]

I remember when I saw Episode 66 for the first time, subbed...I was livid!

The Vegetto stuff was great, for what little there was...but then the Episode degenerated into a long stream of retcons and deux ex machinas, the writers desperately trying to wrap up the arc after spending too much time dawdling in the previous episodes...

At least, that was my first impression. But now that I watched it with the dub...I don't know. I just felt like it...made more sense. Somehow.

For example, the way Kaioshin and Gowasu kept talking about how Zamasu's body was "losing form"...or about how his regeneration wasn't working quite like it was before. I don't know if the wording was more clear or what, but I found myself thinking...

"Ohhh, THAT'S what's up! Zamasu's body literally CAN'T keep up with everything happening to it! It's like if he had Buu's body, but didn't regenerate properly!"

Kind of like if you tore the fender off your Mercedes, and "fixed" it by reattaching it with super glue. Or if tore the bottom of your new backpack, and "fixed" it by taping it shut with duct tape. Or if your dog peed on your beautiful white carpet, and you "fixed" it by putting some Febreze in it.

And that's why Fused Zamasu STARTS OUT beautiful, then gets
progressively more hideous and misshapen.

And evidently, piercing attacks mess it up the worst. Hence why the episode put so much emphasis on the moment Vegetto stabbed Zamasu. It wasn't that it clearly hurt; it was ALSO foreshadowing to how Zamasu would eventually be cut in half. Because again, his body is already "losing shape". It's already coming apart as-is.

Plus, Zamasu was clearly getting worn down, even before then. He and Vegetto STARTED evenly matched...but by the end, he could barely even defend himself. Presumably because, again, his body wasn't really shaking off the damage like it should've been able to. That's why it was dripping and smoking when going really fast, or getting hit.

So, that's how Trunks could kill him, despite being so much weaker. Now how he was able to ACCIDENTALLY summon that huge, Spirit Bomb-esque attack, I'll never understand. But, oh well...

But anyway, did anyone else have that same experience? How somehow, the dub made it WAY easier for them to connect the dots? To make sense out of what had originally seemed like a bunch of nonsense?

[dbgtFO]

I think it's because it's your spoken language and not just some foreign language subtitled into your language, thus you feel more connected to it and can accept it more easily.
Unless of course they changed something in the script.
I haven't seen the english dub at all, so I have no idea.

[Professor Freeza]

Saw the dub and HATED IT. Its astounding how much they destroyed the tone of the episode. The epic music also got toned down which actually hurt the episode more.

The only good part about this episode was Trunks' speech when Zamasu pinned him down. Only that made me care.


SUCH A DISAPPOINTMENT.

[Fionordequester]

Saw the dub and HATED IT. Its astounding how much they destroyed the tone of the episode. The epic music also got toned down which actually hurt the episode more.

The only good part about this episode was Trunks' speech when Zamasu pinned him down. Only that made me care.


SUCH A DISAPPOINTMENT.

Oh dude, I know. Ever since they brought Barry Watson and Bruce Faulconer back...man, they've been SLUMMING it lately ...

[sangofe]

Saw the dub and HATED IT. Its astounding how much they destroyed the tone of the episode. The epic music also got toned down which actually hurt the episode more.

The only good part about this episode was Trunks' speech when Zamasu pinned him down. Only that made me care.


SUCH A DISAPPOINTMENT.

Oh dude, I know. Ever since they brought Barry Watson and Bruce Faulconer back...man, they've been SLUMMING it lately ...

What? You should be careful writing nonsense. Some people might believe this. I think he meant they put the volume down.

[Fionordequester]

What? You should be careful writing nonsense. Some people might believe this. I think he meant they put the volume down.

Actually, I think he himself was joking with what he said; hence the ALL CAPS AT THE VERY END OF HIS MESSAGE. So, I was just joshing around with him, too. Sorry!

[dbgtFO]

Actually, I think he himself was joking with what he said; hence the ALL CAPS AT THE VERY END OF HIS MESSAGE. So, I was just joshing around with him, too. Sorry!

I see you are not familiar with Professor Freeza..
Trust me, when I write that he was most likely genuinely expressing his thoughts.

[GodVegetto91]

It’s an improvement over the sub, especially when they had Trunks saying it was HIS fight. Gotta point out the obvious indeed. That said, it’s still the worst episode of Super.

[PFM18]

It’s an improvement over the sub, especially when they had Trunks saying it was HIS fight. Gotta point out the obvious indeed. That said, it’s still the worst episode of Super.

Oh come on. The worst? Isn't that a little harsh? I haven't rewatched the dub and only saw this when it came out but this isn't even the episode when Trunks pulls the sword and Zeno erases everything right? At the very least that episode is worse.(This may all happen in the same episode but I don't recall)

[GodVegetto91]

It’s an improvement over the sub, especially when they had Trunks saying it was HIS fight. Gotta point out the obvious indeed. That said, it’s still the worst episode of Super.

Oh come on. The worst? Isn't that a little harsh? I haven't rewatched the dub and only saw this when it came out but this isn't even the episode when Trunks pulls the sword and Zeno erases everything right? At the very least that episode is worse.(This may all happen in the same episode but I don't recall)

Our opinions couldn’t be any different. Episode 67 is definitely no worse than episode 66. Zeno erasing everything makes PERFECT sense. SSJ Blue Goku beating Merged Zamasu head on in a beam struggle on the other hand does not. And even if we were to take this logic that Goku was somehow that strong, then a SSJ Blue Vegito formed by THAT Goku should have defeated Merged Zamasu with two hands tight behind his back in less than a minute. Since that Vegito is made up of THAT Goku who beat Merged Zamasu. Can you see where this logic of Toei is going? What’s worse, the all beloved Vegito, with his huge, faithful fanbase, only appeared for 5 minutes, in which he didn’t do anything impressive against MZ, of the 1 hour (now retconned, which is another problem but okay) timelimit. And to make matters worse, a Spirit Sword by Trunks was apparently more powerful than a Potara Fusion, which obviously doesn’t make any sense. So you tell me of an episode with worse powerscaling?

I love episode 67. Never complained about it. Omni-King erasing the entire timeline, is what fanboys like me long for. I don’t live by any “rules” that says it’s “anti climactic” or any of that sort of nonsense.

But hey, opinions. So let’s just agree to disagree.

Like i said, the dub was still an improvement in it’s dialoque. Pointing things out in a clearer way. For whatever it was worth though.

[PFM18]

Our opinions couldn’t be any different. Episode 67 is definitely no worse than episode 66. Zeno erasing everything makes PERFECT sense. SSJ Blue Goku beating Merged Zamasu head on in a beam struggle on the other hand does not. And even if we were to take this logic that Goku was that strong, then a SSJ Blue Vegito formed by THAT Goku should have defeated Merged Zamasu with two hands tight behind his back in less than a minute. Since that Vegito is made up of THAT Goku who beat Merged Zamasu. Can you see where this logic of Toei is going? What’s worse, the all beloved Vegito, with his huge, faithful fanbase, only appeared for 5 minutes, in which he didn’t do anything impressive against MZ, of the 1 hour (now retconned, which is another problem but okay) timelimit. And to make matters worse, a Spirit Sword by Trunks was apparently more powerful than a Potara Fusion, which obviously doesn’t make any sense. So you tell me of an episode with worse powerscaling?

If we are talking strictly in terms of powerscaling, then yes, it is an awful episode and the worst in DBS for sure. But speaking generally about the episode it was an episode with tons of tension, epic moments, and the narrative of Trunks saving his Future with the power of the people he is fighting for is there. Also, the part of Trunks doing better than Vegetto isn't thatbad since Zamasu was so heavily damaged by the time Trunks cut him in two. The "retcon" although strange, doesn't actually contradict DBZ since Goku and Vegeta also defused in less than an hour in DBZ. They rationalized it by some crap in Buu's stomach but now we have a better explanation.

[GodVegetto91]

Our opinions couldn’t be any different. Episode 67 is definitely no worse than episode 66. Zeno erasing everything makes PERFECT sense. SSJ Blue Goku beating Merged Zamasu head on in a beam struggle on the other hand does not. And even if we were to take this logic that Goku was that strong, then a SSJ Blue Vegito formed by THAT Goku should have defeated Merged Zamasu with two hands tight behind his back in less than a minute. Since that Vegito is made up of THAT Goku who beat Merged Zamasu. Can you see where this logic of Toei is going? What’s worse, the all beloved Vegito, with his huge, faithful fanbase, only appeared for 5 minutes, in which he didn’t do anything impressive against MZ, of the 1 hour (now retconned, which is another problem but okay) timelimit. And to make matters worse, a Spirit Sword by Trunks was apparently more powerful than a Potara Fusion, which obviously doesn’t make any sense. So you tell me of an episode with worse powerscaling?

If we are talking strictly in terms of powerscaling, then yes, it is an awful episode and the worst in DBS for sure. But speaking generally about the episode it was an episode with tons of tension, epic moments, and the narrative of Trunks saving his Future with the power of the people he is fighting for is there. Also, the part of Trunks doing better than Vegetto isn't thatbad since Zamasu was so heavily damaged by the time Trunks cut him in two. The "retcon" although strange, doesn't actually contradict DBZ since Goku and Vegeta also defused in less than an hour in DBZ. They rationalized it by some crap in Buu's stomach but now we have a better explanation.

Yeah sure, if we take away the whole powerscaling mess, it can be an enjoyable episode. No doubt. The animation was pretty good aswell. And the dialogue was okay either. However, even from an entertainment perspective, there’s still the same problem, fans wanted to see Vegetto for at least a good while longer than a mere 5 minutes. Even if it was just 1 episode of appearance, they would still enjoy seeing him for a whole 20+ minutes. Sadly, we didn’t get even that. He lasted barely 5 minutes. And when you see things from that perspective, it’s hard not to get mad when you see “Trunks” taking over from him, and succeeding in where the all mighty powerhouse Vegetto had failed. Can you see where these fans are coming from? Other than that. The episode provided great concepts and ideas, yet poorly executed, which makes it all the more worse and completely negates all of it’s brilliant potential. This could have been one of the best episodes had Toei not decided to betray it’s fans.

[Fionordequester]

And when you see things from that perspective, it’s hard not to get mad when you see “Trunks” taking over from him, and succeeding in where the all mighty powerhouse Vegetto had failed.

Vegetto didn't really "fail". The guy was just about the finish the job by the time he split. It's just that he had only a fraction of the time he thought he had. Had he known that, he probably would've eviscerated Zamasu from the word go.

[sangofe]

It’s an improvement over the sub, especially when they had Trunks saying it was HIS fight. Gotta point out the obvious indeed. That said, it’s still the one of the best episodes of Super.

Fixed your quote :p

[PsionicWarrior]

Yeah sure, if we take away the whole powerscaling mess

From personal experience I recommend doing that it is much safer in this series lol

[GodVegetto91]

And when you see things from that perspective, it’s hard not to get mad when you see “Trunks” taking over from him, and succeeding in where the all mighty powerhouse Vegetto had failed.

Vegetto didn't really "fail". The guy was just about the finish the job by the time he split. It's just that he had only a fraction of the time he thought he had. Had he known that, he probably would've eviscerated Zamasu from the word go.

Still failed. Regardless of how you look at it. He didn’t manage to destroy Zamasu’s physical body unlike Trunks. “Was about to” is different from “did”. And it certainly didn’t look like he was about to either. Hell even a full power Final Kamehameha didn’t even PUT A DENT in Zamasu’s armor. He was completely unfazed by it. I would have at least expected him to regenerate something like a lost limb after that, but no. He took Vegetto’s Final Kamehameha head on.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I think it's because it's your spoken language and not just some foreign language subtitled into your language, thus you feel more connected to it and can accept it more easily.
Unless of course they changed something in the script.
I haven't seen the english dub at all, so I have no idea.

I think it is this too. For me every episode has been better when I have watched it dubbed. Bad episodes suddenly tolerable, good episodes where great and great episodes were fantastic! The Mafuba episode of the Trunks arc originally watching it I didn't even finish the episode properly just skipped to the fusion part, but the dubbed episode a few weeks ago? Flew by and I was like wow this wasn't as bad as I remembered. About the Japanese it is like I am being told what is being said as opposed to me hearing and experiencing it, it is why I prefer anime dubbed (and why FUNi's simuldub initiative was a blessing.)

[dbs fanboy]

Not in my case, i actually got all of this from the sub as well. Thought to be honest, i had to rewatch it like 2 times to get it.
Oh and about Trunks managing to create a spirit sword, i simply take it as a symbolical moment, you know, as the kind of situation in which a miracle happens and there's no explanation to what is going on. You just go with the flow.

[SupremeKai25]

Not in my case, i actually got all of this from the sub as well. Thought to be honest, i had to rewatch it like 2 times to get it.
Oh and about Trunks managing to create a spirit sword, i simply take it as a symbolical moment, you know, as the kind of situation in which a miracle happens and there's no explanation to what is going on. You just go with the flow.

It's the power of love and friendship. No matter how powerful and divine your opponent is, if you TRULY believe in something, then nothing can stand in your way!

Such a cringe-worthy episode, now that I think about it. At least Zamasu will have his revenge in the next episode. There is some justice, after all...

[superfan2024]

I will still never get over Fused Zamasu going unscathed after Vegetto shot the Final Kamehameha. I prefer the manga's fight between the two way better. Even there, Vegetto was still stronger than Fused Zamasu like he was supposed to be. He even wasn't able to fire the Final Kamehameha and he defused right before he was able to fire it.