I love Toyotaro’s Kale in the DBS Manga...

[PsionicWarrior]

I would still appreciate an explanation as of why my panel from chapter 32 was removed by moderation, what the hell was wrong with that, now my post is just empty without it lol

[Koitsukai]

We haven't seen that much from her, but I do like her more than in the anime where she was like Shun from Saint Seiya with all that shyness and mad potential. Ok, nothing at all like Shun, but such a stereotype, like the geeky kid that gets bullied for being shy but gets mad and even beats the principal and the parents.

Also, I like that she is waaaay stronger than Broly, she is blue tier! it doesn't make much sense though, she is stronger than the super saiyan god from the legend, I'm not that happy about that fact, it renders saiyajin history and the concept of SS god useless or maybe the word would be obsolete. It's a huge leap going from SS level to blue level like that, but we'll see what next chapter has for her.

It doesn't render any part of Saiyan history obsolete, because "the Saiyan of legend" is a purely movie concept, therefore it doesn't exist in the main series in the first place.

There would be no main series without the movie, which has more involvement from Toriyama than the show itself

[Saturnine]

There would be no main series without the movie, which has more involvement from Toriyama than the show itself

Weird, I recall Dragon Ball doing just fine before Movie 8 came out...

[BlueBasilisk]

While I do think it's neat that Kale is so strong, I find her and Caulifla far more bland than their anime counterparts and lacking the interesting dynamic they had before, especially Caulifla's total faith in Kale and her abilities even before she transforms. I almost hope that doesn't come up in the manga now that Kale has transformed. It'll just make Caulifla look shallow. But I feel like a lot of the manga characters are bland and unininteresting compared to their anime counterparts, particularly in these last two arcs.

But I also feel like people blow the whole Broly-reference business way out of proportion. They only did that the first time she transformed to aggro on Cabba and again in episode 100, which together make up maybe 10-15 minutes of her total screen time. It didn't happen again after 100 and I'm pretty sure she did more fighting without her Berserk form than she did with. And her normal personality is nothing like Broly's.

[PsionicWarrior]

^^I was about to post another panel where we see Caulifla in a badass pose but what's the point if it's going to get removed lol

[Simere]

While I do think it's neat that Kale is so strong, I find her and Caulifla far more bland than their anime counterparts and lacking the interesting dynamic they had before, especially Caulifla's total faith in Kale and her abilities even before she transforms. I almost hope that doesn't come up in the manga now that Kale has transformed. It'll just make Caulifla look shallow.

I agree Caulifla's not as interesting without her support and encouragement of Kale. That was the most endearing part of her character. It got a bit too heavy handed at times, in particular the climax versus the Pride Troopers, but it was a great direction overall. I know what you mean about coming off shallow, but it can still be made to work, and I'd rather it be shallow than not be present at all.

[Bergamo]

While I do think it's neat that Kale is so strong, I find her and Caulifla far more bland than their anime counterparts and lacking the interesting dynamic they had before, especially Caulifla's total faith in Kale and her abilities even before she transforms. I almost hope that doesn't come up in the manga now that Kale has transformed. It'll just make Caulifla look shallow.

I agree Caulifla's not as interesting without her support and encouragement of Kale. That was the most endearing part of her character. It got a bit too heavy handed at times, in particular the climax versus the Pride Troopers, but it was a great direction overall. I know what you mean about coming off shallow, but it can still be made to work, and I'd rather it be shallow than not be present at all.

I personally cannot stand Kale and Caulifla in the anime. Kale is so selfish and possessive, and she has no reason to be. She isn't like Vegeta where he has suffered through out his life, or like Frieza who is meant to be despicable. She is simply obnoxious. Caulifla is also so proud despite being weak compared to most of the important fighters in the tournament, and she unlocks transformations with little effort.

[Jackalope89]

While I do think it's neat that Kale is so strong, I find her and Caulifla far more bland than their anime counterparts and lacking the interesting dynamic they had before, especially Caulifla's total faith in Kale and her abilities even before she transforms. I almost hope that doesn't come up in the manga now that Kale has transformed. It'll just make Caulifla look shallow.

I agree Caulifla's not as interesting without her support and encouragement of Kale. That was the most endearing part of her character. It got a bit too heavy handed at times, in particular the climax versus the Pride Troopers, but it was a great direction overall. I know what you mean about coming off shallow, but it can still be made to work, and I'd rather it be shallow than not be present at all.

I personally cannot stand Kale and Caulifla in the anime. Kale is so selfish and possessive, and she has no reason to be. She isn't like Vegeta where he has suffered through out his life, or like Frieza who is meant to be despicable. She is simply obnoxious. Caulifla is also so proud despite being weak compared to most of the important fighters in the tournament, and she unlocks transformations with little effort.

So, how dare a prideful Saiyan be prideful? Considering until only recently, in both incarnations, she had been relatively unmatched by most beings?

After literally decades of Vegeta going on about Saiyan pride, I find it odd that people complain about a Saiyan being prideful.

[Bergamo]

I agree Caulifla's not as interesting without her support and encouragement of Kale. That was the most endearing part of her character. It got a bit too heavy handed at times, in particular the climax versus the Pride Troopers, but it was a great direction overall. I know what you mean about coming off shallow, but it can still be made to work, and I'd rather it be shallow than not be present at all.

I personally cannot stand Kale and Caulifla in the anime. Kale is so selfish and possessive, and she has no reason to be. She isn't like Vegeta where he has suffered through out his life, or like Frieza who is meant to be despicable. She is simply obnoxious. Caulifla is also so proud despite being weak compared to most of the important fighters in the tournament, and she unlocks transformations with little effort.

So, how dare a prideful Saiyan be prideful? Considering until only recently, in both incarnations, she had been relatively unmatched by most beings?

After literally decades of Vegeta going on about Saiyan pride, I find it odd that people complain about a Saiyan being prideful.

Vegeta rambled about his pride and thought we was the best and that was always portrayed as foolish. Vegeta also used his pride and the negativity he felt to push himself and increase his strength. Caulifla's pride is just obnoxious. Caulifla has all of the "Saiyan Traits" and none of the personality. She has pride but no self loathing/self awareness and she always wants to fight but never wants to help out others.

[Simere]

While I do think it's neat that Kale is so strong, I find her and Caulifla far more bland than their anime counterparts and lacking the interesting dynamic they had before, especially Caulifla's total faith in Kale and her abilities even before she transforms. I almost hope that doesn't come up in the manga now that Kale has transformed. It'll just make Caulifla look shallow.

I agree Caulifla's not as interesting without her support and encouragement of Kale. That was the most endearing part of her character. It got a bit too heavy handed at times, in particular the climax versus the Pride Troopers, but it was a great direction overall. I know what you mean about coming off shallow, but it can still be made to work, and I'd rather it be shallow than not be present at all.

I personally cannot stand Kale and Caulifla in the anime. Kale is so selfish and possessive, and she has no reason to be. She isn't like Vegeta where he has suffered through out his life, or like Frieza who is meant to be despicable. She is simply obnoxious. Caulifla is also so proud despite being weak compared to most of the important fighters in the tournament, and she unlocks transformations with little effort.

The manner of Kale's selfishness is so different from that of Vegeta's and Freeza's that I don't see why you'd even begin to compare them. The reason why she is the way she is is clear. Kale desires encouragement from Caulifla in both the anime and manga. She doesn't appear to get much of it from Caulifla in the manga(sheepishly presenting the device to Caulifla and the gesture being spurned), but in the anime Caulifla is overflowing with it. This isn't enough for Kale to live up in the way she thinks she should, and so her failures are doubly felt—the frustration of failure, and the fear that failing will result in losing Caulifla. This insecurity compounds upon itself, and of course it manifests in possessiveness as well. If someone "better" than her comes along, where does that leave her?

That said, I do think that Kale is a better character on her own in the manga. That doesn't mean much to me since I only care a little bit about Kale outside of Caulifla.

Also, Caulifa's pride is hardly lessened in the manga. How weak was she compared to Golden Freeza in the latest chapter when she proudly declared herself the saiyan prodigy while saying "I'm more than enough for you"? Unlocking transformations with little effort? Remember in chapter 32 or 33 when she bragged about how easy it was for her, and that if these other saiyans struggled so hard they must not be much? Maybe the lack of voice acting is making you read her lines more softly.

[Bergamo]

I agree Caulifla's not as interesting without her support and encouragement of Kale. That was the most endearing part of her character. It got a bit too heavy handed at times, in particular the climax versus the Pride Troopers, but it was a great direction overall. I know what you mean about coming off shallow, but it can still be made to work, and I'd rather it be shallow than not be present at all.

I personally cannot stand Kale and Caulifla in the anime. Kale is so selfish and possessive, and she has no reason to be. She isn't like Vegeta where he has suffered through out his life, or like Frieza who is meant to be despicable. She is simply obnoxious. Caulifla is also so proud despite being weak compared to most of the important fighters in the tournament, and she unlocks transformations with little effort.

The manner of Kale's selfishness is so different from that of Vegeta's and Freeza's that I don't see why you'd even begin to compare them. The reason why she is the way she is is clear. Kale desires encouragement from Caulifla in both the anime and manga. She doesn't appear to get much of it from Caulifla in the manga(sheepishly presenting the device to Caulifla and the gesture being spurned), but in the anime Caulifla is overflowing with it. This isn't enough for Kale to live up in the way she thinks she should, and so her failures are doubly felt—the frustration of failure, and the fear that failing will result in losing Caulifla. This insecurity compounds upon itself, and of course it manifests in possessiveness as well. If someone "better" than her comes along, where does that leave her?

That said, I do think that Kale is a better character on her own in the manga. That doesn't mean much to me since I only care a little bit about Kale outside of Caulifla.

Also, Caulifa's pride is hardly lessened in the manga. How weak was she compared to Golden Freeza in the latest chapter when she proudly declared herself the saiyan prodigy while saying "I'm more than enough for you"? Unlocking transformations with little effort? Remember in chapter 32 or 33 when she bragged about how easy it was for her, and that if these other saiyans struggled so hard they must not be much? Maybe the lack of voice acting is making you read her lines more softly.

Caulifla got humbled by Cabbe in the manga, and she got only one transformation. Everything I dislike about anime Caulifla is there, but in smaller doses.

[Simere]

Caulifla got humbled by Cabbe in the manga, and she got only one transformation. Everything I dislike about anime Caulifla is there, but in smaller doses.

And by Goku in the anime. What's the difference? Cabba being so awful that losing to him is more shameful? I feel that.

Caulifla didn't truly unlock SS2 until the tournament began. If one transformation instead of two is where your enjoyment of her hinges, you might want to hold off liking her in the manga till she's eliminated.

[Bergamo]

Caulifla got humbled by Cabbe in the manga, and she got only one transformation. Everything I dislike about anime Caulifla is there, but in smaller doses.

And by Goku in the anime. What's the difference? Cabba being so awful that losing to him is more shameful? I feel that.

Caulifla didn't truly unlock SS2 until the tournament began. If one transformation instead of two is where your enjoyment of her hinges, you might want to hold off liking her in the manga till she's eliminated.

If something triggers Caulifla's anger and she unlocks SS2 that's one thing, but if she gets it 2 seconds after achieving SS1 using the T I N G L Y back method, then that's another. She also felt the need to humiliate Cabbe for no reason by saying that she could beat him up.

[Simere]

If something triggers Caulifla's anger and she unlocks SS2 that's one thing, but if she gets it 2 seconds after achieving SS1 using the T I N G L Y back method, then that's another. She also felt the need to humiliate Cabbe for no reason by saying that she could beat him up.

Yes, that was great. Cabba the Unworthy. That Caulifla and Kale both chumped Cabba's existence is one of my sweeter memories of the show.

[Bergamo]

If something triggers Caulifla's anger and she unlocks SS2 that's one thing, but if she gets it 2 seconds after achieving SS1 using the T I N G L Y back method, then that's another. She also felt the need to humiliate Cabbe for no reason by saying that she could beat him up.

Yes, that was great. Cabba the Unworthy. That Caulifla and Kale both chumped Cabba's existence is one of my sweeter memories of the show.

Cabbe - Worked hard to become an elite member of the Sadala Defense force and was chosen by the Gods as one of universe 6s strongest warriors. Unlocked Super Saiyan after being nearly killed by a powerful foe and having his entire planet threatened.

Caulifla - Literal criminal. Is super strong but somehow no one knows about her(totally not an awkward way to insert a character into a story). Obtains legendary form through back tingles. Gets another form in two seconds. Disrespects those who are more powerful and have worked harder than her.

[Simere]

If something triggers Caulifla's anger and she unlocks SS2 that's one thing, but if she gets it 2 seconds after achieving SS1 using the T I N G L Y back method, then that's another. She also felt the need to humiliate Cabbe for no reason by saying that she could beat him up.

Yes, that was great. Cabba the Unworthy. That Caulifla and Kale both chumped Cabba's existence is one of my sweeter memories of the show.

Cabbe - Worked hard to become an elite member of the Sadala Defense force and was chosen by the Gods as one of universe 6s strongest warriors. Unlocked Super Saiyan after being nearly killed by a powerful foe and having his entire planet threatened.

Caulifla - Literal criminal. Is super strong but somehow no one knows about her(totally not an awkward way to insert a character into a story). Obtains legendary form through back tingles. Gets another form in two seconds. Disrespects those who are more powerful and have worked harder than her.

Yes. Yes! Cabba worked so hard, was an elite of the *SADAL DEFENSE FORCE*, was chosen by the Gods!, faced down the Saiyan Prince of Universe 7 and became his universe's first Super Saiyan...

Then Caulifla, Literal Criminal, came along and revealed him as the nothing that he is. And Kale riverdanced on his grave.

[Vegeta_Sama]

Yes, that was great. Cabba the Unworthy. That Caulifla and Kale both chumped Cabba's existence is one of my sweeter memories of the show.

Cabbe - Worked hard to become an elite member of the Sadala Defense force and was chosen by the Gods as one of universe 6s strongest warriors. Unlocked Super Saiyan after being nearly killed by a powerful foe and having his entire planet threatened.

Caulifla - Literal criminal. Is super strong but somehow no one knows about her(totally not an awkward way to insert a character into a story). Obtains legendary form through back tingles. Gets another form in two seconds. Disrespects those who are more powerful and have worked harder than her.

Yes. Yes! Cabba worked so hard, was an elite of the *SADAL DEFENSE FORCE*, was chosen by the Gods!, faced down the Saiyan Prince of Universe 7 and became his universe's first Super Saiyan...

Then Caulifla, Literal Criminal, came along and revealed him as the nothing that he is. And Kale riverdanced on his grave.

But they're not Vegeta's favourites, are they? I'd say Cabba's got a win.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I actually do like the dynamic here, where she is actually much stronger than Caulifla but represses herself because she feels she owes Caulifla her respect. Thus it makes sense why her base form is like playing guardian angel over Caulfla and often sneaks around or zips by to help her but not to her knowledge. People complain about her being stronger, but it makes sense that she does this. Her bond is that she respects Caulifla so much that she wouldn't let anyone get in her way or harm her. Her lacking the ambition that Caulfla has though is still what should fall in line with their differences and why Kale is meek. Just not weak. The reference to pride still feels good that Toyotaro is treating U6 Saiyans like Saiyans and less like what the anime did making them act like humans.

I almost hope that doesn't come up in the manga now that Kale has transformed. It'll just make Caulifla look shallow. But I feel like a lot of the manga characters are bland and unininteresting compared to their anime counterparts, particularly in these last two arcs.

The manga doesn't really give the characters any monologues or room for emotional reactions, so it lacks more than it underdoes.
As for Caulifla, she is shallow essentially. At least in the TOP where all she cares about is just new forms and her getting them with ease. Caulifla doesn't really have any character at all besides that independently. Yes she treats Kale like her best friend at all, but Caulifla is nothing at all to her.

But I also feel like people blow the whole Broly-reference business way out of proportion. They only did that the first time she transformed to aggro on Cabba and again in episode 100, which together make up maybe 10-15 minutes of her total screen time. It didn't happen again after 100 and I'm pretty sure she did more fighting without her Berserk form than she did with. And her normal personality is nothing like Broly's.

Her design in Berserk is the problem. It itself is too much like "Broly in a skirt'', because of how little difference there is. Her conscious ascension after that form is where it finally made it look new and character exclusive. It shouldn't be so played straight that she is an expy of Broly. It should just be a nod, like her base form is. Imagine if her base form had the same hairstyle as Broly's. I thank the manga for at least giving her her own proportions.

Caulifla got humbled by Cabbe in the manga, and she got only one transformation. Everything I dislike about anime Caulifla is there, but in smaller doses.

And by Goku in the anime. What's the difference? Cabba being so awful that losing to him is more shameful? I feel that.

Caulifla didn't truly unlock SS2 until the tournament began. If one transformation instead of two is where your enjoyment of her hinges, you might want to hold off liking her in the manga till she's eliminated.

If something triggers Caulifla's anger and she unlocks SS2 that's one thing, but if she gets it 2 seconds after achieving SS1 using the T I N G L Y back method, then that's another. She also felt the need to humiliate Cabbe for no reason by saying that she could beat him up.

Cabba is too much of a loser for me in the anime to like.
Keeping Caulifla at SS1 as of now in the manga though and her struggling with a toying Freeza is exactly what I wanted to tiers to play out. I can accept SS1 being easy, but SS2 isn't even needed for her in the TOP as the anime has shown, with all the other characters having ambiguous to unquantified power levels, she should just stay at SS1.