What I think made the Future Trunks arc ending bad

[SupremeKai25]

Yet Gohan told him to be well and Trunks quickly straightened up with a smile. He was alive going back to the future!

That's being hopeful that things will get better in the new timeline. Not, 'yay, we won!'

That's called making the best out of a victory regardless of losses. Moving on!

As if it would take just a day to move on from the utter erasure of an entire Multiverse.

[Vegeta_Sama]

That's being hopeful that things will get better in the new timeline. Not, 'yay, we won!'

That's called making the best out of a victory regardless of losses. Moving on!

As if it would take just a day to move on from the utter erasure of an entire Multiverse.

Ever heard of optimism? They're going to go back to a very similair timeline anyway, no use crying and bitching for eternity

[SupremeKai25]

That's called making the best out of a victory regardless of losses. Moving on!

As if it would take just a day to move on from the utter erasure of an entire Multiverse.

Ever heard of optimism? They're going to go back to a very similair timeline anyway, no use crying and bitching for eternity

Ever heard of "trauma"? It is a severe emotional shock and pain caused after an extremely upsetting experience. I would say that the most terrible experience one could have is watching existence itself vanish from existence. And yet there they are, the dinner of that day, just eating and celebrating as if nothing happened.

What did optimism ever bring Trunks? Aside from an erased timeline, and failure? Of what use was optimism when Infinite Zamasu destroyed every Earthling left in existence and turned Earth into a desolate wasteland? The trauma derived from such an event should clearly outweigh the optimism for the future. There is a limit to how much one can hope.

[Vegeta_Sama]

As if it would take just a day to move on from the utter erasure of an entire Multiverse.

Ever heard of optimism? They're going to go back to a very similair timeline anyway, no use crying and bitching for eternity

Ever heard of "trauma"? It is a severe emotional shock and pain caused after an extremely upsetting experience. I would say that the most terrible experience one could have is watching existence itself vanish from existence. And yet there they are, the dinner of that day, just eating and celebrating as if nothing happened.

What did optimism ever bring Trunks? Aside from an erased timeline, and failure? Of what use was optimism when Infinite Zamasu destroyed every Earthling left in existence and turned Earth into a desolate wasteland? The trauma derived from such an event should clearly outweigh the optimism for the future. There is a limit to how much one can hope.

After what Trunks has been through in his childhood, and for his entire life really, do you really expect him to be even more traumatized? Also, someone who's associated with the word hope, isn't going to give up just like that. Just because you're apparently a pessimistic person, judging by your point of view, doesn't mean that everybody else has to be one as well. They don't have to be depressed for the rest of their life just because your limit of how much one can hope has been surpassed. Your opinion is not objective.

[SupremeKai25]

After what Trunks has been through in his childhood, and for his entire life really, do you really expect him to be even more traumatized?

Yes? Since all his efforts and sacrifices were all for nothing in the end. And since he promised to his mother that he would save his world, but failed.

Also, someone who's associated with the word hope, isn't going to give up just like that.

I'm not saying he should have given up, I am saying that he should be far more serious and saddened after that event. Especially in the manga, where he has a stupid smile imprinted on his face as if nothing ever happened. That is not being optimistic despite the literal genocide that you just witnessed. That is being apathetic.

Besides, It looks as if Trunks gave up when Infinite Zamasu killed everyone. When he noticed that everyone was gone, his voice was trembling, and he even made Mai lower her gun, as if he were telling her "It's over, there is nothing left we can do". So there is clearly a limit to how much hope a mortal can have, especially after all their efforts have been rewarded with defeat. I am not being pessimistic, I am just saying how I interpreted Trunks' feelings in that episode, and how I think Trunks should have acted. Since It's what this thread is about.

And, sure, He might have naively claimed at the end of the episode that "Hope was the right choice" (although he didn't say that in the original Japanese version), but facts prove that Trunks' hope in the end was meaningless, and was rewarded with defeat. Especially if you consider what happened in the previous episode. It was every Earthling's hope that destroyed Fused Zamasu's physical form. And yet, the hope of every Earthling was not enough to put an end to Zamasu, and he just returned more powerful than ever and killed them all. After such an unfortunate turn of event, You would think that Trunks would start to... lose hope. Since all the hope on Earth couldn't put down Zamasu. Or at the very least he would adopt a more negative mindset after all his hopes were crushed before his eyes despite all his sacrifices and efforts.

Just because you're apparently a pessimistic person

This has nothing to do with optimism or pessimism. This has to do with the reality of the situation. One can have all the hope in the world, they should still get a case of severe trauma after witnessing a multiversal genocide before their very eyes.

They don't have to be depressed for the rest of their life

I never said that, I said that they should not have been so happy the evening of that same day. Instead of celebrating with a party, they should have mourned the trillions of souls that were erased from existence just a few hours earlier.

And it's not just Trunks anyway. Goku and Vegeta too acted as if nothing big happened.

Your opinion is not objective.

What I presented is my opinion, not a fact. The same goes for you. If you think that I am presenting my opinion as an objective fact (where?), it is your problem, not mine.

[Vegeta_Sama]

Yes? Since all his efforts and sacrifices were all for nothing in the end. And since he promised to his mother that he would save his world, but failed.

Well, what do you expect? The anime showed him beign disappointed and sad about what happened, only to be more hopeful once Whis told him that there's a way to make the best out of the shitty situation, and go back to a similair timeline. I really don't understand why do you not want them to find happiness in the fact that they get to go back, and fix what they can?

I'm not saying he should give up, I am saying that he should be far more serious and saddened after that event. Especially in the manga, where he has a stupid smile imprinted on his face as if nothing ever happened. That is not being optimistic despite the literal genocide that you just witnessed. That is being a dumbass.

The manga didn't really portray that very well, but I don't really see a problem in the anime. As I said, he finds happiness in the fact that he can go back to a smiliair timeline and see him mom again, along with everybody else who got wiped out. Sure they're not the exact same, but what can you do, it's already a good thing that he gets to see them at all. Who would not be happy at a rewind button to fix all of their mistakes?

This has nothing to do with optimism or pessimism. This has to do with the reality of the situation. One can have all the hope in the world, they should still get a case of severe trauma after witnessing a multiversal genocide before their very eyes.

He already witnessed one. People get desensitized to shit. Not like he was emotionless throughout anyway. All I remember from the FT arc is the amout of times that Trunks started crying.

I never said that, I said that they should not have been so happy the evening of that same day. Instead of celebrating with a party, they should have mourned the trillions of souls that were erased from existence just a few hours earlier. And it's not just Trunks anyway. Goku and Vegeta too acted as if nothing big happened.

if you're talking about the manga, then fair point, but in its favor, all the humans were already dead by the time they made their last trip to the past, so in Trunks' eyes, Zeno didn't really kill anyone he cared about when he erased the timeline. They were all already exterminated anyway.

What I presented is my opinion, not a fact. The same goes for you. If you think that I am presenting my opinion as an objective fact (where?), it is your problem, not mine.

No, you're saying that they shouldn't be optimistic just because you're not the type of person who would be in this situation. That's not an opinion, it's just an instance of you going: ''why are they not reacting the way I want them to?''

[HeroR]

Yet Gohan told him to be well and Trunks quickly straightened up with a smile. He was alive going back to the future!

That's being hopeful that things will get better in the new timeline. Not, 'yay, we won!'

That's called making the best out of a victory regardless of losses. Moving on!

More like accepting a lost and moving on.

[Yuli Ban]

I admit that this is a show for little kids, but this idea that you can get over such a traumatic event and a life as dark as Future Trunks reeks of learning everything you know about human psychology and normal human social interaction from watching anime.
Which is why it's questionable to really hate this event because this is the same series where half of the heroes are criminals and mass murderers and few seem to care much about that.

Now don't get me wrong: this happens in real life too. Check out this documentary about Pablo Escobar's hitman, John Jairo Velásquez, who's an arrogant PoS but is still loved in his area and even has an active social media presence. He was put away for something different than being responsible for the death of hundreds.

So yes, life can be bullshit. Still, I can understand why Future Trunks's reaction to his timeline being obliterated can be considered weak and disappointing, because it is. In that regard, I think that's mostly a sin of the show rushing the ending due to the fact it was being written by Toei's team with only a few basic ideas from Toriyama. It's true— there are other, identical universes he can go to. But there's not as much closure in that case.

And that's the word I'm going for: closure.

For Future Trunks's world, the Goku Black arc was like you finally finish your chocolate cake but when you slice in and take a bite, your face contorts in horror as the taste smacks you and you discover that it's actually radioactive sludge and you're actually going to die in 24 hours because of ultra-extended exposure to such a toxic substance. And there's a turd to boot.

It renders Future Trunks's entire arc back in Z worthless. It meant that everything he fought for wasn't worth it.
One side of it shows that there are consequences to actions, even heroic actions. That's good. That's a nice moral to teach.

So what fool decided to still give Trunks a happy ending by sending him to a new timeline? That's basically saying "you should have simply run." There really weren't any consequences, but Trunks still lost. What was the point of following his story, then? Trunks lost, but won, but lost, and nothing's any different because of it. You can't get invested in Trunks's struggle against the artificial humans anymore because you now know that his very act of coming back to the past has doomed his entire timeline. What's more, it doesn't matter how much Trunks fights because he loses in the end anyway and escapes to an identical universe where the only thing that's different is that things are better in some arbitrary way that's never properly explored.

Like, from a storytelling standpoint, everything about the Goku Black arc was probably the absolute nadir of the entire series that's only hidden because of a popular misconception that "darkness = good story".

It's probably one of the few times in anime history when this song can actually unironically be used rather than just because it's angsty and easily editable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG4rOW0IMfU

Thanks for that, Toei.

[Master Xar]

Trunks didn't see it as a victory even as he went into his new timeline. As he told Gohan, "I couldn't protect the world'. This isn't the statement of someone declaring victory.

Yet Gohan told him to be well and Trunks quickly straightened up with a smile. He was alive going back to the future!

No you’re still looking at it from the outer view, put you, YOU yourself. In Trunks’ shoes he gave up SO much to protect that timeline, it wasn’t just his timeline, it was his home it was his home he wasn’t good enough to protect (in his eyes).

He didn’t win personally. He lost at what he came there in the first place to do. Save. His. Home. If that were me FUCK the greater good i’d still be bare minimum pissed and cripplingly depressed at my failure, as I said this is no minor thing, this is a TIMELINE here, countless lives he swore to protect are gone, possibly forever. Even in the new timeline it’s not HIS timeline.

The only reason it’s “bittersweet” is because they managed to stop him from spreading across the timelines into the past. But Trunks and Mai are STILL screwed here...

Mai and I are not "screwed" cause we did our best and I actually won my one on one fight against fused Zamas. I did my best against the odds. Despite this, circumstances out of my control happened, which called for drastic measures. I am thankful the friends I asked to help save my future were there. If it wasn't for Goku calling Zenoh we would of been really "screwed." My timeline was erased but the woman I care for is with me and I am grateful we made it out alive. After all I've been through I've learned to appreciate the good in the bad.

Sounds like a big load of crap, it’s almost the equivalent of a holocaust survivor who lost several family members going “aw shucks at least I survived”. There’s desensitization and then there’s apathy and lacking humanity, you basically have him act like he doesn’t give a remote care that his entire home world got destroyed.

It seems you’re not ever going to get the point so I’m not continuing on with you.

[Master Xar]

Yes? Since all his efforts and sacrifices were all for nothing in the end. And since he promised to his mother that he would save his world, but failed.

Well, what do you expect? The anime showed him beign disappointed and sad about what happened, only to be more hopeful once Whis told him that there's a way to make the best out of the shitty situation, and go back to a similair timeline. I really don't understand why do you not want them to find happiness in the fact that they get to go back, and fix what they can?

I'm not saying he should give up, I am saying that he should be far more serious and saddened after that event. Especially in the manga, where he has a stupid smile imprinted on his face as if nothing ever happened. That is not being optimistic despite the literal genocide that you just witnessed. That is being a dumbass.

The manga didn't really portray that very well, but I don't really see a problem in the anime. As I said, he finds happiness in the fact that he can go back to a smiliair timeline and see him mom again, along with everybody else who got wiped out. Sure they're not the exact same, but what can you do, it's already a good thing that he gets to see them at all. Who would not be happy at a rewind button to fix all of their mistakes?

This has nothing to do with optimism or pessimism. This has to do with the reality of the situation. One can have all the hope in the world, they should still get a case of severe trauma after witnessing a multiversal genocide before their very eyes.

He already witnessed one. People get desensitized to shit. Not like he was emotionless throughout anyway. All I remember from the FT arc is the amout of times that Trunks started crying.

I never said that, I said that they should not have been so happy the evening of that same day. Instead of celebrating with a party, they should have mourned the trillions of souls that were erased from existence just a few hours earlier. And it's not just Trunks anyway. Goku and Vegeta too acted as if nothing big happened.

if you're talking about the manga, then fair point, but in its favor, all the humans were already dead by the time they made their last trip to the past, so in Trunks' eyes, Zeno didn't really kill anyone he cared about when he erased the timeline. They were all already exterminated anyway.

What I presented is my opinion, not a fact. The same goes for you. If you think that I am presenting my opinion as an objective fact (where?), it is your problem, not mine.

No, you're saying that they shouldn't be optimistic just because you're not the type of person who would be in this situation. That's not an opinion, it's just an instance of you going: ''why are they not reacting the way I want them to?''

Because it’s not closure, it’s not acting like a person with anything to attached, you have to understand how long he has been defending that timeline, how hard he tried, how much he lost and went through just to keep remnants of it alive, his mother quite literally died right in front of his eyes, he fought for an entire year getting his ass kicked, eating dog food and rations eventually, and talked down to by mass-murdering, nihilistic gods. All this not even counting all the stuff he went to prior to the androids.

Most of what he went through and up to the end of the arc would make near anything have a form of trauma. It may have been the appropriate or satisfying reaction for you and others. But to many others... one could feel there’s a drastic lack of closure, no one acts psychologically and emotionally even close to what other people feels was genuine. It’s BS to a lot of other people, including me, it’s an under-reaction all across the board with not just Trunks, but the other characters as well, even humans like Bulma and others had a lack of reaction to it.

They’ve thrown us sprinkles of Trunks acting like he should, but it wasn’t that satisfying to a lot of people, what would it hurt for you or anyone else that were ok with what we got with something a little more heartfelt? They’re warriors, they’re supposed to be somewhat dulled to this, but there’s a line when a whole multiverse worth of people died?

A big point in storytelling is making the characters care and be invested in the situation, emulating and having their feelings be shared back to us, when Trunks was sad and upset we were as well... if everyone else was upset we feel it even more, depending on how much Trunks showed he was upset, we would get more upset too, of course there is... overdoing it but it’s far better than the characters suddenly giving far less to almost no shit about what just happened. Or what was the point?

[ulisa]

On the one hand, I do agree that Future Trunks was much happier/accepting than he should have been, given the situation. He’d just lost everything and despite all his attempts to get stronger, he still lost. That’s a major blow.

On the other hand, though, if we’re being realistic here, every single character on this show should have some form of PTSD, with Future Trunks and Gohan being prime candidates for complex-PTSD. Naturally, given the target audience, they don’t.

Do I think they should have given Future Trunks more of a reaction? Yes. Do I understand why they didn’t? Also yes. Personally, I’ve come to the conclusion he’s having a delayed onset reaction which can take anywhere from 3-12 months to show up.

[Miracles]

Sounds like a big load of crap, it’s almost the equivalent of a holocaust survivor who lost several family members going “aw shucks at least I survived”. There’s desensitization and then there’s apathy and lacking humanity, you basically have him act like he doesn’t give a remote care that his entire home world got destroyed.

It seems you’re not ever going to get the point so I’m not continuing on with you.

No I get that you want, some wrist cutting mental reflections on the matter. However just cause I'm [or Trunks] not responding the way you want me to [evidenced by calling my response a "load of crap"] doesn't mean it's dehumanizing to shed some tears [which is what Trunks did] over the event and feel remorse and bitterness without making a scene. And then moving on to the next step. The emotion was there from Trunks, not just the way you thought it should be. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean what you are whining about didn't happen. Get a grip, stop being overly sensitive about a show that doesn't really delve deep into that department anyway.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

The day episode #67 aired was the same day my uncle passed away so I've got bad memories associated with that episode and rewatching it, yeah it isn't great to have death completely brushed aside like that is appalling. Trunks killing Zamasu should have been that and the episode should have been a nice farewell to Trunks as he helps rebuild his future. Does it ruin the arc for me? A bit but eh what can you do?

[Master Xar]

Sounds like a big load of crap, it’s almost the equivalent of a holocaust survivor who lost several family members going “aw shucks at least I survived”. There’s desensitization and then there’s apathy and lacking humanity, you basically have him act like he doesn’t give a remote care that his entire home world got destroyed.

It seems you’re not ever going to get the point so I’m not continuing on with you.

No I get that you want, some wrist cutting mental reflections on the matter. However just cause I'm [or Trunks] not responding the way you want me to [evidenced by calling my response a "load of crap"] doesn't mean it's dehumanizing to shed some tears [which is what Trunks did] over the event and feel remorse and bitterness without making a scene. And then moving on to the next step. The emotion was there from Trunks, not just the way you thought it should be. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean what you are whining about didn't happen. Get a grip, stop being overly sensitive about a show that doesn't really delve deep into that department anyway.

No that’s the extreme in my other comment I already said there’s going too far, but my god dude. There’s getting over something quickly, and then there’s apathy and not acting remotely human, maybe he is having an onset reaction like one commenter said. Fact is he barely if at all reacted like he should, shedding tears for all but 5 seconds and immediately getting over it isn’t a reaction.

I don’t need to get over anything, it’s my opinion and my thread. I believe the underreaction of the characters undercut the closure of the ending and didn’t follow through with the appropriate emotional weight, you think it’s good enough? Good for you. Want a cookie? I already said you’re not getting the point and you still don’t get it, I don’t invest in those kinds of people, if you don’t like it. Leave. Don’t try to throw potshots of me being “overly sensitive” and roundabout your insults.

I’m sure you’re gonna want to get the last words in, that’s usually what these convos boil down to, go on ahead.

[SsjCookie]

After looking at the Eng Dub ending of the arc it finally clicked as I was watching it. It wasn’t the grim or darkness. It wasn’t Deus Ex Machina (because objectively it was a Chekhov’s gun that Zeno Button) it wasn’t the alternate timeline Trunks went to. It’s not the Sword of Hope Trunks pulled. No...

It was that freaking Tone Shift after they got back from the timeline. Look at how they are after that whole thing... no one treats the situation as it should. They failed. Hard. the entire point of a bad or bittersweet ending, is that it’s a failure.

When we as people lose or have been defeated, we have some sort of regret or doubt, maybe even guilt. People are supposed to self-reflect and grow from our failures, feel frustrated or angry with ourselves to some degree, that maybe if we’d have done something different this wouldn’t have happened. There is a POINT to loss and I think whoever was scripting and directing this last episode missed that so hard that it’s not even funny.

They ALMOST had it, had they just slowed the pacing of the ending down, and had the characters treating the situation like they should it would’ve been perfect, and they missed SO many glorious opportunities.

This should have been the heights of Trunks’ frustration with himself, of his own weakness and inability to protect his timeline. He should have raged against the heavens that very moment. This had potential to be the ANGRIEST a character has ever been in the series, this had SO much potential to be THE rage and eventually his anger dies down to tears and deep regret.

Mai should have been distraught like she was when Zamasu was in the sky if not more so. Goku and Roshi should been eaten up with guilt and regret for how they didn’t take the situation seriously and fumbled. Several of the other Z Fighters (especially Gohan) should have been upset or ashamed at their own strength or unwillingness to help in the future timeline. Vegeta SHOULD have been disappointed in his own strength that it wasn’t enough to help his son when he needed it most.

AND as a bonus... Kid Trunks could’ve had a big chance to witness all this happening and this could’ve been the fire lighted under his ass. He SHOULD have looked at Future Trunks and how hard he worked, how he trained, how dedicated he was to vowing to protect his world at all costs... and count. his. blessings. He should have looked at him as a tragedy, that his complacency and lack of will to become strong could lead him to ruin, as Future Trunks’ hard work had still lead to his failure, and look inward at himself.

But no... everyone treats it like some sort of failed wedding or party that got too wild rather than the fact that an entire WORLD of people just ceased to exist. Like WHAT!? No one should be happy here. At all. This should’ve been something that haunted those involved for the rest of their lives, and those close to them to look deep into themselves.

God it was such an astounding waste of potential. This could’ve been the most heartfelt and catching ending in Dragonball, something that clicked well with not only the audience, but the characters, EVERYONE could have developed greatly in this scenario. Literally EVERY piece was there and the one directing and scripting the end kicks the whole board away.

I have never seen such a MASSIVE BOTCH in a long time. It’s astonishing. It’s like watching baseball and the bases are loaded on the 9th inning and an outfielder fumbles the outing catch and proceeds to trip over his own feet until everyone makes it to home base.

That’s how bad it was. My GOD looking back on it now it is frustrating to look at. I have no idea why whoever was behind this insisted that everyone be all smiles, ice cream, and fucking rainbow sparkles after this whole thing at the table eating. I just hope whoever did somehow learns and reflects on this, or just stays away from the endings and tone-heavy scenes because... to be polite...

They need work...

It just goes to show that one misstep or person’s directing decision and tone can ruin an entire ending and make the entire arc almost completely pointless...



That concludes my argument for why it’s so bad. Thank you for reading.

"Can't win em all" seems to be the main thought in the Zamasu/Future Trunks saga.
Even though we're all used to the fact that in DB(Z/Super/GT) everything is going to be all right in the end and they all live happily ever after, The Zamasu saga was refreshing in a way that made an end to the continuing trope that the hero always wins.

The pyrrhic victory in the end was a fitting one, but only one that a character like Future Trunks could afford.
They would never dare going that dark with the main character of the show.

Having said that, I do agree that most of the characters reacted very lukewarm on the destruction of Trunk's timeline, I found it quite....anticlimatic.
At least Trunks still realized it in the Anime.
The rest treated it like a lost baseballgame to be honest.
Especially Goku who was actually one of the main reasons they lost Trunk's timeline. (Forgot the Sensu beans and the Mafuba seal .) so at least he could have shown a little bit more remorse.

Gohan could have helped out too but he did literally nothing during the whole saga, heck even Piccolo and kid Trunks helped more, so shame on him.

[Miracles]

No that’s the extreme in my other comment I already said there’s going too far, but my god dude. There’s getting over something quickly, and then there’s apathy and not acting remotely human, maybe he is having an onset reaction like one commenter said. Fact is he barely if at all reacted like he should, shedding tears for all but 5 seconds and immediately getting over it isn’t a reaction.

I don’t need to get over anything, it’s my opinion and my thread. I believe the underreaction of the characters undercut the closure of the ending and didn’t follow through with the appropriate emotional weight, you think it’s good enough? Good for you. Want a cookie? I already said you’re not getting the point and you still don’t get it, I don’t invest in those kinds of people, if you don’t like it. Leave. Don’t try to throw potshots of me being “overly sensitive” and roundabout your insults.

I’m sure you’re gonna want to get the last words in, that’s usually what these convos boil down to, go on ahead.

It's you who wants the last word cause you are arguing with yourself. Your just flat out wrong cause you are wanting something from a show that the author himself has stated [even TOEI] that doesn't get too emotional. Yet that's what you are asking for and complaining about it not happening. Trunks showed empathy but not in a dramatic manner. Go watch/read one piece for over the top big mouths and floor scratching terror. This shows it's you who isn't getting it, I get the picture.