Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

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Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by dbzfan7 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:59 pm

At least for me the form kinda became standard once it became "Mastered". We started off with this awesome premise that started since Resurrection F, giving us a nice sense of beginning climbing the mountain that was Ultra Instinct. Something Beerus couldn't even master. We get to see it at last and Goku moves in a special unheard of way for the series. Goku's movements are bizarre as if he were a puppet on strings. His body moved on it's own. It was excellent in episode 110. Though once the form finally is completed...it moves just like any other power up. The cool as hell dodging and awkward dodging/attacking movement is mostly dropped.

I watched through all the times we focused on Ultra Instinct again, and it's like they removed what was special about the form to have easier time story boarding the fight scenes. What was cool was how Jiren had to be clever to get the jump on Goku. Getting into a beam struggle which forces Goku to stay still, as well as firing so many attacks and forcing Goku's movements to be limited and pinned down was great. It gave the fight a more tactical edge. I mean we had something similar with Super Light-Speed Dyspo where limiting his movements was the best way to fight him or he was too difficult to touch. I think we shoulda evolved on that premise.

Ultra Instinct is pretty much for me the top transformation given to us since 2013's Battle of Gods jump started the series again, and my 3rd favourite overall...but I feel like it lost what made it special once Goku started moving normally again, instead of the possessed puppet on strings fighting style. I'm not with the "Oh he can't ever be hit" crowd, but was more with clever ways to overcome self mastery movement.
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Re: Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by Master Xar » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:28 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:At least for me the form kinda became standard once it became "Mastered". We started off with this awesome premise that started since Resurrection F, giving us a nice sense of beginning climbing the mountain that was Ultra Instinct. Something Beerus couldn't even master. We get to see it at last and Goku moves in a special unheard of way for the series. Goku's movements are bizarre as if he were a puppet on strings. His body moved on it's own. It was excellent in episode 110. Though once the form finally is completed...it moves just like any other power up. The cool as hell dodging and awkward dodging/attacking movement is mostly dropped.

I watched through all the times we focused on Ultra Instinct again, and it's like they removed what was special about the form to have easier time story boarding the fight scenes. What was cool was how Jiren had to be clever to get the jump on Goku. Getting into a beam struggle which forces Goku to stay still, as well as firing so many attacks and forcing Goku's movements to be limited and pinned down was great. It gave the fight a more tactical edge. I mean we had something similar with Super Light-Speed Dyspo where limiting his movements was the best way to fight him or he was too difficult to touch. I think we shoulda evolved on that premise.

Ultra Instinct is pretty much for me the top transformation given to us since 2013's Battle of Gods jump started the series again, and my 3rd favourite overall...but I feel like it lost what made it special once Goku started moving normally again, instead of the possessed puppet on strings fighting style. I'm not with the "Oh he can't ever be hit" crowd, but was more with clever ways to overcome self mastery movement.
The movement mostly stopped because Goku and Jiren were on the back and forth, and it’s really difficult to animate it not storyboard. More limp and almost flop-like movement on a body than they were if they were regularly fighting, the drag of the limbs and head as well and complex movements are harder to make. Naoki Tate is far better at conveying ultra instinct’s limping with his squash and stretch technique and his ability to create a well drawn out wind-up and drag is what makes UI.

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Re: Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:42 am

You do gotta admit that Goku using those little Ki balls to surf Jiren's blasts near the end was pretty damn cool and a logical extension of the "sliding Kamehameha".

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Re: Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by Zen Yabuki » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:21 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:You do gotta admit that Goku using those little Ki balls to surf Jiren's blasts near the end was pretty damn cool and a logical extension of the "sliding Kamehameha".
I loved that part.

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Re: Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:55 am

I honestly love the form. At least, the Omen version. That fealt like tapping into a power we haven't seen. Goku seemingly able to dodge effortlessly most attacks was great.

The Mastered Form felt like just more of another big power up. I get Jiren powered up to match him, but he was getting rocked around by Jiren. And I blame that on pulling that power up for Jiren out of no where.

The other moment that kind of ruined it was during the fight with Kefla. That honestly felt filler-esque. Especially having him talk. During both bouts against Jiren he was silent save for the roars. Which I absolutely loved. It was like all his focus was merely on the moment and he had no reason to speak. Against Kefla it felt filler esque. Like, he not able to tap into the "attack portion" so his attacks are weaker yet he can still hurt Jiren? That doesn't make sense.

I really love UI as a concept. The Omen execution was great. Mastered felt underwhelming

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Re: Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:53 pm

Ultra Instinct should be used less to be more special IMO.
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Re: Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by Tai Lung » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:28 am

I do not see it that is to say many transformations have been over exploited as the ssj, ssj4 ,, ssj blue but the ultra instinct was handled well is the only transformation that brings something new as a skill besides being able, and to lose a bit of impact with the domain of this does not change much that is still holding strong

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Re: Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by Sora Saiyan » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:09 am

I adored UI until the fight with limit breaker Jiren. At that point it was like Toei had forgotten what UI was actually about. I know Jiren had received a power up, but before Goku achieved MUI he was still weaker than Jiren in every battle they had yet Jiren never once touched him in straight up combat, in fact because of this they implemented it’s only weakness in the tournament on more than one occasion, the ‘no flying rule’. Anyway MUI got annoying when all of this was chucked to the wayside, even though they became somewhat equal at this stage so logically Goku should dominate absolutely, the opposite happens, and instead it’s just downgraded to a regular transformation.

Hoping that was just a spectical for the anime, and the manga actually keeps the consistency with everything the anime had shown up until that point. Or even better yet, it appears in the new movie, and with Toriyama having the most control over it we’ll genuinely know what it’s meant to be like through and through. Though I believe he’ll correct it in the manga if it’s not to his vision as he’s done with other things in the past.

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Re: Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by jplaya2023 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:09 am

yeah incomplete UI seemed 2 be better than MUI which makes no lick of sense, but that's what my eyes told me.

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Re: Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by Bullza » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:25 am

DragonBallFoodie wrote:Ultra Instinct should be used less to be more special IMO.
Definitely. They spoilt Super Saiyan Blue by overusing it.

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Re: Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by Mister_Popo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:37 pm

Bullza wrote:
DragonBallFoodie wrote:Ultra Instinct should be used less to be more special IMO.
Definitely. They spoilt Super Saiyan Blue by overusing it.

All major opponents in Super were Blue-tier or stronger than Blue, seems pretty logical to me we saw that form a lot.
Nontheless we saw the classic forms coming back fairly frequent, in the beginning of the arcs or during preperation for TOP and even during TOP itself.
It was pretty cool Red came back in TOP for some variation, and more specific how it was used in the fight against Dyspo. Switching between Red and Blue, like in the manga, in an effort to save stamina.

If UI becomes the next plateau, it's pretty obvious we're gonna see it more often. I cannot believe they hyped up the form that much, to not use it anymore later on.
That doesn't make much sense IMHO knowing opponents always become stronger as Dragon Ball progresses.
Unless we'll get opponents from now on that are weaker than Jiren, which i have difficulties believing in. I honestly think there is a big chance even Broly will be stronger at the end.

We are not going to get three arcs with always the same procedure as during TOP: Goku shiting through all the forms to eventually break his limits subsconciously and reach MUI.
That would be rather predictable. We'll probably see that again against Broly. But i expect Goku to use it at will when all the opponents become (above) GodofDestruction-level and truely mastering the form when the series resume, Vegeta as well.

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Re: Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by Jack Bz » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:06 pm

Yeah, I am so confused about what the fight with limit breaker Jiren is even implying. Was Jiren just so much more tremendously stronger than MUI Goku that he managed to have a pretty even fight even though Goku had mastered all movement? Or were they pretty much even in strength, and Jiren gained the ultra instinct ability as well when he broke his limits? MUI really did just seem like a regular transformation in that fight.

Omen's introduction was so much more interesting.

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Re: Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:05 am

Bullza wrote:
DragonBallFoodie wrote:Ultra Instinct should be used less to be more special IMO.
Definitely. They spoilt Super Saiyan Blue by overusing it.
Nah, they soiled it by not making it unqiue compared to the other forms, thus making it just another power-up.

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Re: Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by Bullza » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:28 am

SaiyanGod117 wrote:Nah, they soiled it by not making it unqiue compared to the other forms, thus making it just another power-up.
Well it wasn't supposed to be unique, it was only meant to be Super Saiyan God but as a Super Saiyan.

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Re: Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:58 pm

Bullza wrote:
SaiyanGod117 wrote:Nah, they soiled it by not making it unqiue compared to the other forms, thus making it just another power-up.
Well it wasn't supposed to be unique, it was only meant to be Super Saiyan God but as a Super Saiyan.
In that case than, it would have been overused regardless. :wtf:
Be as it may, at the time it was introduced we knew little information about the god forms or Ki, nor did the writers flesh it out any. Meaning, they might as well could have made SSB unique like giving it techniques only Goku Ki users could use. Kind of like in the form of Hakai or that (one time) plot regeneration for SSG, instead they went the boring route.

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Re: Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by TBMx » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:14 pm

It was as I thought and said. They were never going to be able to top Goku vs Kefla, and what a shock, they couldn't. I was falling asleep during MUI vs Jiren because we've seen it done better in the very same tournament. :yawn: Giving Goku all that at the end was redundant and overindulgent.

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Re: Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by Simere » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:30 pm

TBMx wrote:It was as I thought and said. They were never going to be able to top Goku vs Kefla, and what a shock, they couldn't. I was falling asleep during MUI vs Jiren because we've seen it done better in the very same tournament. :yawn: Giving Goku all that at the end was redundant and overindulgent.
Didn't you say you were done with Super and weren't going to watch anymore?

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Re: Ultra Instinct from amazing to rapid decline

Post by TBMx » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:34 pm

Simere wrote:
TBMx wrote:It was as I thought and said. They were never going to be able to top Goku vs Kefla, and what a shock, they couldn't. I was falling asleep during MUI vs Jiren because we've seen it done better in the very same tournament. :yawn: Giving Goku all that at the end was redundant and overindulgent.
Didn't you say you were done with Super and weren't going to watch anymore?
I am done with Dragonball. But as a graphic novelist, I do need to keep an eye on what the best artists and animators are doing in the industry.

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