What's the point of bringing (Movie 20 spoilers) back?

[coola]

Toriyama confirmed, that only thing new Broly will have in common with old one, is its look, my question is, why making him look like Broly, if it will be completely different character? i respect Toriyama, but his recent stuff is definition of playing it safe, and fanfiction coming to life (And by that, i mean of course using it by author in official story )

[JazzMazz]

Toriyama confirmed, that only thing new Broly will have in common with old one, is its look, my question is, why making him look like Broly, if it will be completely different character? i respect Toriyama, but his recent stuff is definition of playing it safe, and fanfiction coming to life (And by that, i mean of course using it by author in official story )

I believe that did it for marketting purposes, use a familiar and popular character to garner a reception. That's all I think there is to it sadly.

[ekrolo2]

Marketing, editorial suggestions, and nostalgia pandering. Basically, everything we've gotten since F.

Before some smartass comes at me about Zamasu and Black, yes, they were unique characters. Doesn't change the fact their story is a blatant regurgitation of the Android arc.

[Doctor.]

Marketing, editorial suggestions, and nostalgia pandering. Basically, everything we've gotten since F.

Before some smartass comes at me about Zamasu and Black, yes, they were unique characters. Doesn't change the fact their arc is a blatant regurgitation of the Android arc.

Are you somehow implying Jiren isn't unique? He broke all expectations in how garbage of a character he was.

[ekrolo2]

Marketing, editorial suggestions, and nostalgia pandering. Basically, everything we've gotten since F.

Before some smartass comes at me about Zamasu and Black, yes, they were unique characters. Doesn't change the fact their arc is a blatant regurgitation of the Android arc.

Are you somehow implying Jiren isn't unique? He broke all expectations in how garbage of a character he was.

Jiren met my expectations: he looked bland and boring from initial impressions and that's what he was. I was actually surprised at just how straight they play him.

[Master Xar]

Marketing, editorial suggestions, and nostalgia pandering. Basically, everything we've gotten since F.

Before some smartass comes at me about Zamasu and Black, yes, they were unique characters. Doesn't change the fact their story is a blatant regurgitation of the Android arc.

How is their story a “regurgitation” of the Android arc?

Also to answer the OP, I don’t really see a problem in redoing the concept and revamping the character. Do I think it’s playing it safe? Maybe. But execution is everything, and outside of knowing that the main villain is Broly revamped we don’t know much, and if his story takes place in flashbacks of the past there’s plenty of potential stories that can expand on what is found.

And I don’t like the term “fanfiction-y” as if there is something wrong with fan-produced content in general, not all fanfiction is “My Immortal” and not all fan-produced content is “Anime War” or “AF”

I see it being very fair to call it that anyway considering the long near 10 year decade between when Z ended and BOG to call it as “NO THEY CANNOT EVER MAKE THIS NON-CANON CHARACTER, REMAKE HIM AND HIS MOVIE EVER as if there was some invisible rule of trademark on it.

[ekrolo2]

Marketing, editorial suggestions, and nostalgia pandering. Basically, everything we've gotten since F.

Before some smartass comes at me about Zamasu and Black, yes, they were unique characters. Doesn't change the fact their story is a blatant regurgitation of the Android arc.

How is their story a “regurgitation” of the Android arc?

Because it hinges on the premise of something terrible happening in Future Trunks' timeline (again) which brings humanity to the edge of extinction (again) and Future Trunks needing to flee to the past to get help for it (again).

Seriously, why is this here besides someone at Toei telling them they HAVE to bring back Future Trunks? You can easily cut him out of the story and make a murder mystery surrounding Black & Zamasu going around, killing Kai's in the main timeline just fine. Or if Future Trunks HAS to appear, why not give him a status quo besides "last hope of an apocalyptic future on the edge of annihilation!".

[Master Xar]

Marketing, editorial suggestions, and nostalgia pandering. Basically, everything we've gotten since F.

Before some smartass comes at me about Zamasu and Black, yes, they were unique characters. Doesn't change the fact their story is a blatant regurgitation of the Android arc.

How is their story a “regurgitation” of the Android arc?

Because it hinges on the premise of something terrible happening in Future Trunks' timeline (again) which brings humanity to the edge of extinction (again) and Future Trunks needing to flee to the past to get help for it (again).

Seriously, why is this here besides someone at Toei telling them they HAVE to bring back Future Trunks? You can easily cut him out of the story and make a murder mystery surrounding Black & Zamasu going around, killing Kai's in the main timeline just fine. Or if Future Trunks HAS to appear, why not give him a status quo besides "last hope of an apocalyptic future on the edge of annihilation!".

So? Outside of those 3 things how are they the same? And also those were under different circumstances and knowledge.
1.) Trunks Future was already long terrible with the Androids, it’s practically his whole life, Zamasu and Black came out of nowhere as he was rebuilding his life.
2.) As they were rebuilding and the circumstances are different as Black and Zamasu are aiming to kill humanity this time, 17 and 18 don’t really care and just did it for shits and giggles
3.) “get help” he came to give them a warning and give the vaccine, and then he came back a second time because he realized the rules of time travel don’t work under singular timeline theory and came back to check on them to help them out and then went to go kill the androids himself.

Also don’t see how that’s an innate, objective problem just because they use Future Trunks. Of course you could cut him out of the story, but I feel it would drag away a lot of the charm of the arc, and it felt great that we got to see him again as I felt that they left Trunks’ story too open with the introduction of future events and how he’d deal with them.

You seem to be going for “this story has to 100% have nothing to do with previous content from Z or any of the other material or else it’s trash” instead of judging the arc for its own merit here.

Do I think they could more original stuff and not go full Dragonball Heroes? Yes. But as long as the story and characters are good I’m all for it.

[Omniboy]

Maybe I missed something but I don't recall Toriyama saying that he was going to COMPLETELY change his character. Just that he was going to add some new aspects and layers to a character who needs it while keeping his original image. The core aspect of his character which was a calm docile young saiyan who transforms into the devil will likely be there. Just with more to him.

As to why they are doing this:

1. I want to believe that they just want to add more to a character and concept that has a lot of potential to become something great.

2. Although I don't want to be pessimistic, the most obvious answer is marketing and money.

With all that said I hope they let him keep both his restrained and normal super saiyan forms.

[coola]

Marketing, editorial suggestions, and nostalgia pandering. Basically, everything we've gotten since F.

Before some smartass comes at me about Zamasu and Black, yes, they were unique characters. Doesn't change the fact their story is a blatant regurgitation of the Android arc.

How is their story a “regurgitation” of the Android arc?

Also to answer the OP, I don’t really see a problem in redoing the concept and revamping the character. Do I think it’s playing it safe? Maybe. But execution is everything, and outside of knowing that the main villain is Broly revamped we don’t know much, and if his story takes place in flashbacks of the past there’s plenty of potential stories that can expand on what is found.

And I don’t like the term “fanfiction-y” as if there is something wrong with fan-produced content in general, not all fanfiction is “My Immortal” and not all fan-produced content is “Anime War” or “AF”

Sorry, i should be more specific, i enjoy some Dragon Ball related fanfictions, like Malik New Age, Kaboom reimagination of GT, some stories onfanfiction like Fall Of Lord Freeza etc... but, there are also bad types of fanfiction, like having Freeza back and somehow make him equal to post Buu heroes, that's stuff i've read in early 2000's and made fun of this back then, and it still make me laugh

[ekrolo2]

So? Outside of those 3 things how are they the same? And also those were under different circumstances and knowledge.
1.) Trunks Future was already long terrible with the Androids, it’s practically his whole life, Zamasu and Black came out of nowhere as he was rebuilding his life.
2.) As they were rebuilding and the circumstances are different as Black and Zamasu are aiming to kill humanity this time, 17 and 18 don’t really care and just did it for shits and giggles
3.) “get help” he came to give them a warning and give the vaccine, and then he came back a second time because he realized the rules of time travel don’t work under singular timeline theory and came back to check on them to help them out and then went to go kill the androids himself.

Also don’t see how that’s an innate, objective problem just because they use Future Trunks. Of course you could cut him out of the story, but I feel it would drag away a lot of the charm of the arc, and it felt great that we got to see him again as I felt that they left Trunks’ story too open with the introduction of future events and how he’d deal with them.

You seem to be going for “this story has to 100% have nothing to do with previous content from Z or any of the other material or else it’s trash” instead of judging the arc for its own merit here.

Do I think they could more original stuff and not go full Dragonball Heroes? Yes. But as long as the story and characters are good I’m all for it.

Future Trunks length of troubles with Black vs the Androids and their motivations don't stop it from feeling same-y, the end result of both is the same: Earth is a post-apocalyptic wasteland where humanity is about to die off (HOW Black doesn't kill them off in mere days after 20 years Android rampaging is beyond me) and Trunks has to Kyle Reese it to save the future by going into the past. The only substantive difference is that now the people from the past are going to the future instead of it taking place predominately in the past. Big whoop.

Trunks' story wasn't left open, it was done. His is the story of scraping by until the day he can save his world and he does that. It's over, finished, complete, it's probably one of the very few actually satisfying things about the Android arc. So, with that in mind, if you're going to bring him back, reverting his entire status quo back into post-apocalypse mode is the de facto laziest way to go about things.

As much as I find these concepts overrated, DBOnline gave a good status quo for him after he saves the future, he becomes a time cop as punishment for playing with history. That's a pretty natural way to have Trunks keep going on adventures if you really can't be asked to properly retire him and I'm honestly shocked no one suggested they bring in the Time Patrol stuff over to Super, especially since Xenoverse 1 was out and hyped and Xenoverse 2 was just months away. They didn't even have to include Mira and Towa, just the status quo of him being a time cop.

I don't think arcs need to be completely divorced from the past, that's obviously not possible, but would it kill someone within farting distance of Super's story making process find a natural or different avenue to bring old stuff back with? Look at Freeza's second return, instead of a squad, he's got a 1000 mooks this time, and instead of being half robot, he's golden now! Whoop. De. Fucking. Do.

[JulieYBM]

An editor's job is to sell stuff. Broli sells a lot of stuff. Welcome to capitalism.

[Master Xar]

Marketing, editorial suggestions, and nostalgia pandering. Basically, everything we've gotten since F.

Before some smartass comes at me about Zamasu and Black, yes, they were unique characters. Doesn't change the fact their story is a blatant regurgitation of the Android arc.

How is their story a “regurgitation” of the Android arc?

Also to answer the OP, I don’t really see a problem in redoing the concept and revamping the character. Do I think it’s playing it safe? Maybe. But execution is everything, and outside of knowing that the main villain is Broly revamped we don’t know much, and if his story takes place in flashbacks of the past there’s plenty of potential stories that can expand on what is found.

And I don’t like the term “fanfiction-y” as if there is something wrong with fan-produced content in general, not all fanfiction is “My Immortal” and not all fan-produced content is “Anime War” or “AF”

Sorry, i should be more specific, i enjoy some Dragon Ball related fanfictions, like Malik New Age, Kaboom reimagination of GT, some stories onfanfiction like Fall Of Lord Freeza etc... but, there are also bad types of fanfiction, like having Freeza back and somehow make him equal to post Buu heroes, that's stuff i've read in early 2000's and made fun of this back then, and it still make me laugh

Eh. The movies weren’t really expected to have the series comeback and weren’t really suited to be “arcs” just short something’s that were basically a love letter to the fans and wanted to introduce some cool or interesting concepts for Toei to hook some of the games on. ROF if you look at it is a nice little role reversal of Goku, Vegeta, and Freeza’s roles in the entire Namek arc and I loved that, literally every bit of you can find it, but I can tell you it along with the symbolism of you’d like.

Also usually those fan fictions usually don’t really serve to do anything other than put Freeza back into his original Namek role of being “the ultra threatening big bad the heroes stand no chance against” which in and of itself is unoriginal. Say what you will about Super bringing him back, they damn didn’t do the same villain role over again.

[Marlowe89]

I'll second Omniboy's sentiments. I think that the reasoning is two-fold; there's obviously a marketing aspect to it, but I believe Toriyama is also sincerely interested in the chance to flesh out his own interpretation of Broly's concept while creating a "new" kind of plot structure that draws on multiple time frames.

Neither Battle of Gods nor Goku Black were originally conceived by Toriyama and sound fairly cliche on the surface, but he was still able to turn them into fun and captivating stories. It's a part of his charm, and I'm optimistic that he can do the same here.

[UpFromTheSkies]

Broly is popular and will make the movie a guaranteed success, but his story needs to be rebooted because the original has been played out as far as it can go, no one wants Bio Broly 2.0

[Master Xar]

So? Outside of those 3 things how are they the same? And also those were under different circumstances and knowledge.
1.) Trunks Future was already long terrible with the Androids, it’s practically his whole life, Zamasu and Black came out of nowhere as he was rebuilding his life.
2.) As they were rebuilding and the circumstances are different as Black and Zamasu are aiming to kill humanity this time, 17 and 18 don’t really care and just did it for shits and giggles
3.) “get help” he came to give them a warning and give the vaccine, and then he came back a second time because he realized the rules of time travel don’t work under singular timeline theory and came back to check on them to help them out and then went to go kill the androids himself.

Also don’t see how that’s an innate, objective problem just because they use Future Trunks. Of course you could cut him out of the story, but I feel it would drag away a lot of the charm of the arc, and it felt great that we got to see him again as I felt that they left Trunks’ story too open with the introduction of future events and how he’d deal with them.

You seem to be going for “this story has to 100% have nothing to do with previous content from Z or any of the other material or else it’s trash” instead of judging the arc for its own merit here.

Do I think they could more original stuff and not go full Dragonball Heroes? Yes. But as long as the story and characters are good I’m all for it.

Future Trunks length of troubles with Black vs the Androids and their motivations don't stop it from feeling same-y, the end result of both is the same: Earth is a post-apocalyptic wasteland where humanity is about to die off (HOW Black doesn't kill them off in mere days after 20 years Android rampaging is beyond me) and Trunks has to Kyle Reese it to save the future by going into the past. The only substantive difference is that now the people from the past are going to the future instead of it taking place predominately in the past. Big whoop.

Trunks' story wasn't left open, it was done. His is the story of scraping by until the day he can save his world and he does that. It's over, finished, complete, it's probably one of the very few actually satisfying things about the Android arc. So, with that in mind, if you're going to bring him back, reverting his entire status quo back into post-apocalypse mode is the de facto laziest way to go about things.

As much as I find these concepts overrated, DBOnline gave a good status quo for him after he saves the future, he becomes a time cop as punishment for playing with history. That's a pretty natural way to have Trunks keep going on adventures if you really can't be asked to properly retire him and I'm honestly shocked no one suggested they bring in the Time Patrol stuff over to Super, especially since Xenoverse 1 was out and hyped and Xenoverse 2 was just months away. They didn't even have to include Mira and Towa, just the status quo of him being a time cop.

I don't think arcs need to be completely divorced from the past, that's obviously not possible, but would it kill someone within farting distance of Super's story making process find a natural or different avenue to bring old stuff back with? Look at Freeza's second return, instead of a squad, he's got a 1000 mooks this time, and instead of being half robot, he's golden now! Whoop. De. Fucking. Do.

Well of course you can say that, and that’s oversimplification, you can make anything sound bad by not looking into the nuances and differences of what serves the purpose or narrative. That the general thing non-Dragonball fans use to oversimplify Dragonballs plot and stories all the time with “Big guys with big hair punching the shot out of each other” if you don’t dig into what makes something interesting or good and look at everything as the same you’ll soon find everything the same and boring, trust me when I say it happens, every idea has been done already it’s just adding your flavor or taste that makes something original or good.

And yes the people and the conflict generally taking place in the future is a big change and serves the characters struggles well. As I said. Trunks has to find his own way out of this since he can’t keep running to the past for his troubles, that was his flaw as a character Trunks didn’t learn his lesson. This is a clip as Trunks’ big intro of coming to the past to help the past and give advice, as to where now he goes to the past to get help this time.

Yeah as I said it was completely open as far as things that would almost inevitably happen like Babidi’s arrival to Earth since he is endlessly searching for Buu’s seal, especially if he is gonna he training hard with his massive potential as a half-breed to protect his future to give off massive energy.

And what exactly is the conflict going to be then if Trunks isn’t in any trouble or vice versa? If everything is fine or the villain isn’t that threatening as to cause Trunks to be desperate enough to come to the past... there is literally no immediate conflict to be had in the first place unless either/or of the characters of the past or the future decide to visit each other for literally no reason.

And even if you don’t like the initial start of concept of the apocalyptic future they put interesting and unique spins on it such as the militia, Mai, the general design of the new ruined future and how the people survive, that the people are now well aware of Trunks and his strength and support him throughout wrapped up his arc as far as that specific timeline goes (and as begrudgingly bad that tone is for the manga and anime...) Trunks’ one thing to protect was ripped away from him in a fate he could narrowly escape the second Zamasu became immortal. Once again you’re oversimplifying the takes on these things without looking into the nuances and changes.

You invest into the “concept” too much and how shiny and new it is without actually looking at the execution man. The role of putting him into the “time cop” role shares no immediate or engaging conflict to the story or reason to invest in it other than “hey it’s Trunks he is a Time Cop now” he is just there to do his job and you can replace him with any other character and it wouldn’t change a thing...

...As far as making him the central or one of the focused characters that is and it holds no weight as Trunks has no investment or personal interest into being a time cop, he is there because he is forced to and only “grows to like it.” I absolutely despise the Time Cop Trunks concept.

You would find what you’re looking for if you decide to look closer. Mecha Freeza was setup as a subversion, not a serious return, he was a footstep to Trunks’ intro to the Android arc, his role is unlike his actual return. Golden Freeza and his return was meant to serve as a complete role reversal of Namek. Here he is in the role of Goku in his two forms. His Final Form gets whooped by Base Goku unlike before where Freeza completely destroyed him.
Golden Freeza as the forms colors hints at is in the role of SSJ Goku, he is the slightly stronger, usurper/challenger out for revenge to the defense of SSJB Goku’s calm and reserved approach as Goku is the slightly weaker in this sense. Even how Goku gets caught off-guard shows contrast as Freeza is the one who needs to retreat and Goku stays which leads him to getting blasted unlike before on Namek.
Vegeta’s is the one who has to tag in for Goku who is blasted in the chest in the end of Goku vs Freeza and Goku was saved, as opposed to when he was blasted in the chest, Goku was tagged in, it was at the beginning of the fight, and Vegeta had shortly died and couldn’t have been saved.
Even the way they Goku got blasted from in the back in the Anime contrasts how Vegeta was shot in the front.

[sintzu]

Toriyama said it was decided in part because of his popularity but you've also got a character who has an epic design and is a fighting wrecking ball but unlike before, Toriyama can give him an interesting personality and backstory, essentially keeping what works and fixing what didn't. If they're willing to go back and bring in old concepts that were flawed and improve them, imagine that applying to something like GT ? Imagine seeing Ssj4 in a quality fight like what we got in Super's episodes 130&131 ? Imagine the shadow dragons done right ? imagine seeing #17 move his brain into a Super #17 looking body to help everyone in a fight ? They see the potential to make something great out of Broly and possibly other concepts.

[superfan2024]

Because he’s insanely popular thats why. And I am perfectly fine as long as Toriyama updates/alters his character and story (which Toriyama literally said he would).

[Grimlock]

All in the meanwhile, King Vegeta, father of the deuteragonist of this franchise, an important character that led the Saiyans during the war against Tsufurujins and took over the planet, a cool and interesting character that needs more character development and screentime, is once again thrown away in favor of crap fanservice.

If there is a benevolent god out there, why does he allow such atrocities like this to happen?

[JazzMazz]

All in the meanwhile, King Vegeta, father of the deuteragonist of this franchise, an important character that led the Saiyans during the war against Tsufurujins and took over the planet, a cool and interesting character that needs more character development and screentime, is once again thrown away in favor of crap fanservice.

If there is a benevolent god out there, why does he allow such atrocities like this to happen?

To be fair, they kind of gave King Vegeta his due in filler. Specifically the filler of DBZ epiosde 78. Everything we really need to know about the character I believe is very well presented and solidified in that episode.