Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:52 am

I would rather have new and fresh ideas than remaking old ones. If I had to pick a reboot of any other old Toei creations, I would pick the Shadow Dragons and Coola. I also think Toriyama's take on Janemba would be cool too. I feel like Toriyama is going to do redo another Toei creation, it would probably be SSj4. SSj4 is a popular form and you even have people who didn't like GT found it to be a cool form. I can see Toriyama doing something with SSj4 in the future for Super.
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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by sintzu » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:36 am

I think it's worth noting that not every concept is going to make it in so we can probably rule out things like Super 13 and Bojack. Other things that are essentially unavoidable such as Broly as he's known as the LSsj, Cooler who's Freeza's brother so any development of his family will most likely include him, Bardock cause Goku can't have 2 dads and so on are things that would be hard to ignore.
Grimlock wrote:Freeza's return was solely because of fanservice.

Then a tournament, more fights and nothing else, which means more fanservice.

Then Future Trunks saga, everything was okay up until Vegetto's appearance.

Saying bullshit about Heroes while placing Toriyama on a pedestal is just madness.

Where have you ever seen a game that completely ignores the fans? No game would sell if they didn't please their fanbase.
Toriyama said he heard a song related to Freeza and that's how he gt the idea.

Going by that logic then the tournaments in the original DB are just fan service.

So that one episode ruined an entire arc for you ? I think it's more that you were looking for a reason to not like it.

No one's putting anyone on a pedestal, I'm just not looking at everything in a negative view like you're doing.

That applies to everything, not just games. The head of Marvel studios says their success is in part thanks to them listening to what their fans want.
ekrolo2 wrote:Isn't forcing a creator who has no idea what he's doing the reason George Lucas was the most hated creator for almost 2 decades or is Dragon Ball exempt from THAT too?
Toriyama's made it clear that he's enjoying what he's doing and the staff said he gets final say on everything so I don't know how that = being forced. Toriyama clearly says his editor "suggested" he used Broly, not that he had an original idea but his editor "forced" him to do something else. I don't know what went wrong with Lucas that caused him to leave so I can't really comment on that.
Hellspawn28 wrote:I feel like Toriyama is going to do redo another Toei creation, it would probably be SSj4. SSj4 is a popular form and you even have people who didn't like GT found it to be a cool form. I can see Toriyama doing something with SSj4 in the future for Super.
Ssj4 being canon will be the final nail in Gt's sorry coffin. With Freeza being alive I think Cooler is only a matter of time.
SaiyanGod117 wrote:Is it too hard to come up with some new ideas? I feel like Broly should be the last hoorah of rehashing ideas, especially outside of canon.
They have new ideas but they want to mix in some old ones as well. I think Broly is just the start of Toei concepts making it into "canon".
ZeroDio wrote:Plus Super 17 being created through Towa’s Dark Magic.
Super 17 could just be normal 17 who moved his brain to a stronger body to help everyone out. There's no need for him to be a villain.
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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by Mister_Popo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:29 am

sintzu wrote:
Mister_Popo wrote:If there are too much recycled ideas coming back, the stories will begin to suffer under the constant recyclation.
I fully agree with this. For every Broly they need to make sure to have a Beerus to balance it out so hopefully once Super returns it'll start with a completely original arc (after retelling Broly).

I do understand you as well. I'm not completely against canonizing existing material from the movies or even GT.
At the end everything is based on existing elements. In that sense Dragon Ball is fanservice for the fans of the classical Chinese novel 'Journey to the West'.
The fact they actually listen to fans is also what keeps the franchise alive.

It's just how many times it happens that could raise questions concerning creativity.
If the series resume and we get three great original arcs with relative fanservice, and thereafter they would bring a movie or a new arc which brings tribute to GT, with Baby Vegeta and kid Goku with tail.
If it's well written and brings in new elements as well: why not? As long as it's not constant.

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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by sintzu » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:46 am

Mister_Popo wrote:If the series resume and we get three great original arcs with relative fanservice, and thereafter they would bring a movie or a new arc which brings tribute to GT, with Baby Vegeta and kid Goku with tail.
I don't have a crystal ball and my predictions are usually wrong but if I had to bet my $$$ on something it'll be Goku never returning as a kid again. I do think GT's elements will be revisited but Goku being a kid will be left on the cutting floor.
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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by Mister_Popo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:53 am

sintzu wrote:
Mister_Popo wrote:If the series resume and we get three great original arcs with relative fanservice, and thereafter they would bring a movie or a new arc which brings tribute to GT, with Baby Vegeta and kid Goku with tail.
I don't have a crystal ball and my predictions are usually wrong but if I had to bet my $$$ on something it'll be Goku never returning as a kid again. I do think GT's elements will be revisited but Goku being a kid will be left on the cutting floor.
I have some gut feeling we are going to see Goku with tail again at some point (not necessarily as a kid), but i could be wrong as well. Baby Vegeta-arc was just an example.

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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by sintzu » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:57 am

Mister_Popo wrote:I have some gut feeling we are going to see Goku with tail again at some point, but I could be wrong as well.
I think that's likely as well, especially if the bring back Ssj4.
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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:14 am

I think an obvious one would be Cooler. Though with Heroes already taking the leap with giving him a Golden Form I doubt we'll see it happen.

I also think Baby or a Baby-esque villain would be great. Especially if we want to explore the history of the Saiyan/Tsfurijin War. Maybe they can elaborate on it in the future with the mysterious Tsfurijin and Yardrat from U2

Also, if we're bringing old villains back, I do kinda wanna see Cell again. He was my favorite back in the day. How they could and make him relevant, I have no idea. But he does have Freeza's cells. So it's possible if he actually trained he could get a significant amp

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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by Grimlock » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:21 am

sintzu wrote:Toriyama said he heard a song related to Freeza and that's how he gt the idea.
Exactly, he went to a concert and heard that song. A song made by fans. But hey, Snoop Dogg has also publicly said that he likes Gogeta, why don't Toriyama use the character because of that too?
sintzu wrote:Going by that logic then the tournaments in the original DB are just fan service.
I don't know how the 80s were so I can't tell if that time people were addicted to tournaments, if Toriyama made them for fanservice or whatever may be the reason why Toriyama made so many tournaments but looking back at them now, from these days' perspective, yes, those sagas are just another bunch of endless fights. Completely skippable for someone who wants a story.
sintzu wrote:So that one episode ruined an entire arc for you ? I think it's more that you were looking for a reason to not like it.
A series of factors ruined the entire saga, but Vegetto's appearance just shows how inevitable a terrible fanservice is, one way or another, soon or late, it will happen.
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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by jplaya2023 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:35 am

i would like to see bojack and his gang become canon since it fits into the actual Z timeline and their story is interesting, along with cooler to give frieza and cooler teamup potential against goku and vegeta.

dr wheelo - no 2 much like dr gero

turles - no 2 much like vegeta

slug - yes piccolo needs a foil

androids 13 14 and 15 - nah

super android 13 - nah

hatchiyack - no

janemba - no 2 much like buu

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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by sintzu » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:24 am

Grimlock wrote:I don't know how the 80s were so I can't tell if that time people were addicted to tournaments, if Toriyama made them for fanservice or whatever may be the reason why Toriyama made so many tournaments.
He said tournaments in other series were popular back then, even in his own Dr.Slump so he decided to do them in DB. He also said that due to Ssj on Namek getting popular it helped him introduce more forms during the Cell arc. He's said multiple times that he just wants his fans to be happy so fan service, even if it wasn't obvious like it is now, was always Toriyama's goal while writing. Toriyama isn't an artist trying to be the best in the world, his work was never meant to be this amazing piece of art, both simply want to entertain people. Its been like that from the start and it's like that now and as a fan base I think we need to come to terms with that.
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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by Bullza » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:37 am

It's sad enough that he's run out of ideas to the point he has to reboot the cash cow, no I wouldn't want him to reboot the others.

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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by sintzu » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:58 pm

Bullza wrote:No I wouldn't want him to reboot the others.
Even if this reboot turns out great ? I understand wanting new things (which we've gotten) but we should at least wait to see what this is about before writing it off.
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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by Forte224 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:37 pm

Michsi wrote:I don't like it, but neither do I hate it. I keep saying, it's the execution that matters most for me, so theoretically, I up for anything as far as concepts go. This is also why I didn't take the Broly reveal to be something that catastrophic. I'm genuinely curious what they'll do with him.
If I could up-vote posts I would here. Yeah, it's all about execution for me. If Toriyama can redeem the character with an actual good backstory then that would be great.

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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by Bullza » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:35 pm

sintzu wrote:
Bullza wrote:No I wouldn't want him to reboot the others.
Even if this reboot turns out great ? I understand wanting new things (which we've gotten) but we should at least wait to see what this is about before writing it off.
Even if Broly ends up being one of the best villains they've come up with I still wouldn't want it. Those characters exist, some are liked and some aren't but they're there.

They should make new characters and expand. Not rely on old popular ones just for easy money.

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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by supersaiyanZero » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:51 pm

I wish he'd reboot Super.

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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by Zen Yabuki » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:54 pm

More than characters, I'd like to see Dragonfist made canon. I don't care too much about characters remaining non-canon, but Dragonfist is something that I find visually pleasing.

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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by coola » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:34 am

God, please no, more rehash of old ideas? Besides, except Broly and Hirudegaun, every villain is already rehash of TV series villain :)
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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by ZeroDio » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:04 am

sintzu wrote:
ZeroDio wrote:Plus Super 17 being created through Towa’s Dark Magic.
Super 17 could just be normal 17 who moved his brain to a stronger body to help everyone out. There's no need for him to be a villain.
Well if I remember correctly... if a person controlled by Towa (or Demigra) through the dark magic gets beaten up hard enough the control gets broken.

So then when the control is broken then 17 got a upgraded body to use (same goes for 18 if we bring in a Super Android 18 as well) from the Dark Evolution.

Then the arc would aim towards Towa & Mira as the bad guys who could bring in a Reboot Super 13 as the arc’s final bad guys (as in Towa in the background while Super 13 & Mira as the evil fighters)

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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:01 pm

As much as I like the idea of "canonizing" old memorable Toei characters, if it was up to me, I would rather new villains and new concepts that have what it takes to become just as memorable as the old ones 20 years down the line.
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Re: Would y’all like it if Tori rebooted other Z Movie/GT villains?

Post by Nickolaidas » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:33 pm

Cooler.

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