Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:31 pm

You're more disgusted by the guy who can't do anything to stop the genocide than the guy committing the genocide.
I am not disgusted by Zamasu because, while his methods were appalling, his intentions were justified and proven by the many examples similiar to Planet Babari. Entire plaents were being destroyed by mortals' foolishness, and Zamasu could no longer stand for this. That is why I respect him. This is also why I am ashamed of the other Gods, who don't care about nature suffering due to the mortals' doing, and justify their blindness by saying "The laws compels us to inaction".

Also, if Gowasu had been a good teacher, Zamasu might have changed his mind, since initially he had Purity of Heart, and gleefully stated that he would act to ensure multiversal peace.
When Vegito says that Zamas has an answer to everything, he means that no matter how many contradictions you point out, he will find a way to justify his logic. It's similar to what you're doing now.
It's actually funny, because Zamasu never contradicted himself. Merging with Goku was his wish because, seeing as Saiyans represented the failure of Gods and the arrogance of mortals, he didn't want to forget the mistakes of the past in the new utopia.

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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:33 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Zeno erasing a timeline is horrible but Zamasu terrorizing and murdering every single living being one by one isn't...
Why do you keep assuming things? For once, I never said such a thing... In fact, told you the exact opposite on another discussion, I think it's equally bad, this isn't the elementary school blame game pal, if Zamasu is a shitty person for what he did there's no need for you to bring up other immoral gods whose actions I don't agree with. Can you give a non childish answer that doesn't make you look like a cult leader or a school shooter?
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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:39 pm

Vegeta_Sama wrote:
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Zeno erasing a timeline is horrible but Zamasu terrorizing and murdering every single living being one by one isn't...
Why do you keep assuming things? For once, I never said such a thing... In fact, told you the exact opposite on another discussion, I think it's equally bad, this isn't the elementary school blame game pal, if Zamasu is a shitty person for what he did there's no need for you to bring up other immoral gods whose actions I don't agree with. Can you give a non childish answer that doesn't make you look like a cult leader or a school shooter?
Except that those other immortal Gods are allied with the good guys, when logic dictates that they should be hated as much as Zamasu. That is hypocrisy at its finest.

And anyway, I would say that I have already proved that Zamasu's ideals were not irrational, and were backed by actual examples, amongst which there is the infamous Planet Babari. I am not repeating myself.

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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:41 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Vegeta_Sama wrote:
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Why do you keep assuming things? For once, I never said such a thing... In fact, told you the exact opposite on another discussion, I think it's equally bad, this isn't the elementary school blame game pal, if Zamasu is a shitty person for what he did there's no need for you to bring up other immoral gods whose actions I don't agree with. Can you give a non childish answer that doesn't make you look like a cult leader or a school shooter?
Except that those other immortal Gods are allied with the good guys, when logic dictates that they should be hated like Zamasu. This is hypocrisy at its finest.
I don't give a shit, this is me talking to you, I don't have an allience with Beerus and Zeno, why do you treat me like a character instead of a person? Are you roleplaying as a fanatic smallminded cult leader or what?
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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by Bergamo » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:43 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Vegeta_Sama wrote:
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Why do you keep assuming things? For once, I never said such a thing... In fact, told you the exact opposite on another discussion, I think it's equally bad, this isn't the elementary school blame game pal, if Zamasu is a shitty person for what he did there's no need for you to bring up other immoral gods whose actions I don't agree with. Can you give a non childish answer that doesn't make you look like a cult leader or a school shooter?
Except that those other immortal Gods are allied with the good guys, when logic dictates that they should be hated as much as Zamasu. That is hypocrisy at its finest.

And anyway, I would say that I have already proved that Zamasu's ideals were not irrational, and were backed by actual examples, amongst which there is the infamous Planet Babari. I am not repeating myself.
You've proven that Zamas makes up arbitrary rules as yo what is right. You've proven he's a basket case who gleefully murders based on a single instance of a bad mortal society.
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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:03 pm

I don't give a shit, this is me talking to you, I don't have an allience with Beerus and Zeno, why do you treat me like a character instead of a person? Are you roleplaying as a fanatic smallminded cult leader or what?
No, I find it that funny that people consider Zamasu a villain, yet when they are asked if Beerus and Zeno are also villains, they call you a troll.
Bergamo wrote:
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Vegeta_Sama wrote: Why do you keep assuming things? For once, I never said such a thing... In fact, told you the exact opposite on another discussion, I think it's equally bad, this isn't the elementary school blame game pal, if Zamasu is a shitty person for what he did there's no need for you to bring up other immoral gods whose actions I don't agree with. Can you give a non childish answer that doesn't make you look like a cult leader or a school shooter?
Except that those other immortal Gods are allied with the good guys, when logic dictates that they should be hated as much as Zamasu. That is hypocrisy at its finest.

And anyway, I would say that I have already proved that Zamasu's ideals were not irrational, and were backed by actual examples, amongst which there is the infamous Planet Babari. I am not repeating myself.
You've proven that Zamas makes up arbitrary rules as yo what is right. You've proven he's a basket case who gleefully murders based on a single instance of a bad mortal society.
Not a single instance. He says that he has witnessed many examples similiar to that of Planet Babari, so it wasn't just Planet Babari. Although Planet Babari alone would have also been striking evidence.

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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:08 pm

double post
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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by BrolyKale » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:09 pm

No, I find it that funny that people consider Zamasu a villain, yet when they are asked if Beerus and Zeno are also villains, they call you a troll.
Beerus's job is to destroy, simple as that. Zeno is also allowed to destroy. Zamasu on the other hand has to protect mortals, the universe, Gowasu said it multiple times that its not his job to kill people, yet he choose to do so.
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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:10 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Vegeta_Sama wrote:
I don't give a shit, this is me talking to you, I don't have an allience with Beerus and Zeno, why do you treat me like a character instead of a person? Are you roleplaying as a fanatic smallminded cult leader or what?
No, I find it that funny that people consider Zamasu a villain, yet when they are asked if Beerus and Zeno are also villains, they call you a troll.
Well, I don't exactly disagree with you there, you just assumed what my thoughts, and it still seems you're didn't fully understand what they actually are even though I said it a milion times to you personally. And I always thought you were a troll, you write like you would write a villain monologue, it's kinda hard to take you seriously bud
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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:22 pm

BrolyKale wrote:
No, I find it that funny that people consider Zamasu a villain, yet when they are asked if Beerus and Zeno are also villains, they call you a troll.
Beerus's job is to destroy, simple as that. Zeno is also allowed to destroy. Zamasu on the other hand has to protect mortals, the universe, Gowasu said it multiple times that its not his job to kill people, yet he choose to do so.
Beerus' job is to destroy threats to the world of Gods, not planets that cook bad food. Beerus abuses his position of power. Furthermore, if he were actually doing his job, he would have destroyed Earth for the creation of the Time Machine, but he didn't. Which means that he lets his feelings get in the way of his work. Perhaps if Beerus had been doing his job better, Universe 7 wouldn't have had to participate in the so-called Tournament of Power. Perhaps if Beerus had destroyed Frieza's Empire of slavery and cruelty, millions wouldn't have died, and many planets wouldn't have been devastated.

As for Zamasu, You are correct. He was supposed to protect mortals and the universe. But what if mortals damage the Universe? What is Zamasu supposed to do, then? Protect mortals and thus allow them to ruin the universe even more? Or protect the universe and eliminate all mortals? Perhaps he could have tried to let mortals grow and learn not to damage nature. But what if mortals do not learn from their mistakes, and keep repeating their cycle of war and destruction? Like Planet Babari and many other similiar examples prove. What is a Kai supposed to do, then? Ah, I get it. A Kai is simply meant to ignore the destruction brought by mortals, because "It is not our job to meddle with the dealing of mortals". What a nice system. No wonder that only 4 Universes have a mortal level that is considered "normal" by Zeno's standards.

The root of the problem is that the incompetent Gods who first created the cosmos gave mortals way too much power, and didn't foresee the fact that mortals would abuse that power and defy their makers.
Well, I don't exactly disagree with you there, you just assumed what my thoughts, and it still seems you're didn't fully understand what they actually are even though I said it a milion times to you personally. And I always thought you were a troll, you write like you would write a villain monologue, it's kinda hard to take you seriously bud
It doesn't bother me. Zamasu is a morally grey character. He is neither good nor completely evil. This is why I don't mind these heated discussions. It is the burden of talking about a multi-dimensional character.

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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by Miracles » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:25 pm

Bergamo wrote:0 mortals = 0 mortal level
Also, Zeno agrees that the Hakaishin/Kaioshin system works the best, and Zamas dismantled that. Zeno is the Lord of everything. There are many gods, but Zeno is THE GOD.
"Defying God is sin itself"
Who said that again, remind me. Couldn't be Zamas, because he killed the gods and had to be punished by God for his defiance.
I already stated Zamas was a hypocrite being just like the ningen too. That still doesn't change the fact that he was objectively right about the mortals morality.
Lord Frieza wrote:So what your telling me is that because every aspect of life itself is founded on or around conflict, down to evolution itself, is wrong? No, because without that conflict life dose not exist. It’s inevitable to occur on some level at any point. It’s s part of the natural order and in reality the greater aspect of it is beyond such simplistic ideals. And it will always faulted and restart as life dose. Even the gods of the dragon ball universe all go through there own developments and conflicts.

The middle point of creation & destruction, of life & death, of good & evil is conflict. It is the hub of the wheel, the key cog that turns the whole machine. It is from this that possibility springs.

And what’s the alternative? Nothing or as close to nothing as you can get. A stagnant universe were nothing grows, nothing changes, nothing is new, nothing is learned. Is reality and the beings in it flawed, yes is the cycle of conflict endless, yes. But it is always better then what lies on the extreme ends of conflict. Zamasu would have found that out the hard way had he succeeded.
You too are objectively wrong. Conflict is a result of the evil within humans. Which begets death. Get rid of evil humans, no conflict. To support conflict is another proof of foolish thinking of ningen. :lol:
SaiyanGod117 wrote:That’s a delusional way of thinking, there will be conflict no matter what, even the Kais and God of Destructions quarrel amongst themselves. Creatures that aren’t human have conflict as well, it’s just a natural part of life.
"Conflict" is a sugar coat for warring with each other due to selfish desires with in. Theses are things everybody knows is wrong. It's delusional to try and pretend humans are good due to this being "natural." Zamas got our number. :lol:
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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:29 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
It doesn't bother me. Zamasu is a morally grey character. He is neither good nor completely evil. This is why I don't mind about these heated discussions. It is the burden of talking about a multi-dimensional character.
No, he's a straight up villain. Morally grey characters don't razionalize genocide.
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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:29 pm

Sorry but how can genociding the entire universes be right, it is true we mortals do a lot of nasty things but also a lot of beauty through science, art, literature, etc lol
Why make all the good ones pay for the evil doers? Eliminating everyone is anything but "justice" IMHO lol

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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:30 pm

Miracles wrote: Get rid of evil humans, no conflict. To support conflict is another proof of foolish thinking of ningen. :lol:
Would you like to be dead just to avoid possible conflict?
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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by Miracles » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:34 pm

Vegeta_Sama wrote:Would you like to be dead just to avoid possible conflict?
Just opposing it or being around it will get one killed.

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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:37 pm

Miracles wrote:
Vegeta_Sama wrote:Would you like to be dead just to avoid possible conflict?
Just opposing it or being around it will get one killed.
Not necessarily
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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by BrolyKale » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:59 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
BrolyKale wrote:
No, I find it that funny that people consider Zamasu a villain, yet when they are asked if Beerus and Zeno are also villains, they call you a troll.
Beerus's job is to destroy, simple as that. Zeno is also allowed to destroy. Zamasu on the other hand has to protect mortals, the universe, Gowasu said it multiple times that its not his job to kill people, yet he choose to do so.
Beerus' job is to destroy threats to the world of Gods, not planets that cook bad food. Beerus abuses his position of power. Furthermore, if he were actually doing his job, he would have destroyed Earth for the creation of the Time Machine, but he didn't. Which means that he lets his feelings get in the way of his work. Perhaps if Beerus had been doing his job better, Universe 7 wouldn't have had to participate in the so-called Tournament of Power. Perhaps if Beerus had destroyed Frieza's Empire of slavery and cruelty, millions wouldn't have died, and many planets wouldn't have been devastated.

As for Zamasu, You are correct. He was supposed to protect mortals and the universe. But what if mortals damage the Universe? What is Zamasu supposed to do, then? Protect mortals and thus allow them to ruin the universe even more? Or protect the universe and eliminate all mortals? Perhaps he could have tried to let mortals grow and learn not to damage nature. But what if mortals do not learn from their mistakes, and keep repeating their cycle of war and destruction? Like Planet Babari and many other similiar examples prove. What is a Kai supposed to do, then? Ah, I get it. A Kai is simply meant to ignore the destruction brought by mortals, because "It is not our job to meddle with the dealing of mortals". What a nice system. No wonder that only 4 Universes have a mortal level that is considered "normal" by Zeno's standards.

The root of the problem is that the incompetent Gods who first created the cosmos gave mortals way too much power, and didn't foresee the fact that mortals would abuse that power and defy their makers.
Well, I don't exactly disagree with you there, you just assumed what my thoughts, and it still seems you're didn't fully understand what they actually are even though I said it a milion times to you personally. And I always thought you were a troll, you write like you would write a villain monologue, it's kinda hard to take you seriously bud
It doesn't bother me. Zamasu is a morally grey character. He is neither good nor completely evil. This is why I don't mind these heated discussions. It is the burden of talking about a multi-dimensional character.
The one who decides what's good or bad is Zeno. If Zeno didn't dismiss Beerus, then that proves that he does his job well, not perfect, but well. But you are right that Beerus does abuse his power, but it doesn't make him completely bad, but just a sinner. Beerus is not someone who has no compassion, unlike Zamasu. So I can't consider Beerus as a true villain... but Zamasu, that guy has no pity at all and he wasn't allowed to kill people, its good that he wants to keep the world beautiful and all but that doesn't allow him to kill people.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that what Beerus is doing is not a bad thing (in Dragon Ball Super ofc), because obviously that's his job, that's the reason why he exists. Zeno is the king of all, him erasing universes is not a bad thing because he is allowed to do so. So comparing them to Zamasu doesn't make much sense to me... they all have different roles. Zamasu's role was to keep an eye on the universe and protect mortals, it doesn't matter if he thinks mortals keep doing the same mistakes over and over, if he was truly a good person or a good Kaio, he would have mercy on mortals, at least on the innocent ones.
Last edited by BrolyKale on Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by Spider-Man » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:13 pm

Vegeta_Sama wrote: Agree 100%. Zamasu's motivations remind me so much of a school shooter's, difference is that the latter don't have supporters because they didn't appear in a TV show. I'm genuinely concerned for the people who unironically defend his actions
I find that really sad, While Frieza is one of my favorites character I don't want to become like him in real life or defend his atrocities.
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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:23 pm

Spider-Man wrote:
Vegeta_Sama wrote: Agree 100%. Zamasu's motivations remind me so much of a school shooter's, difference is that the latter don't have supporters because they didn't appear in a TV show. I'm genuinely concerned for the people who unironically defend his actions
I find that really sad, While Frieza is one of my favorites character I don't to become like him in real life or defend his atrocities.
Exactly. Some people have trouble detaching themselves from the character they love, and that's just not right when the character is a murderous villain
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Re: Zamasu (Not Black) is very underrated...

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:55 pm

Zamasu always suffered a superiority complex with regard to what surrounded him, observing how the "ningen" (which in context did not refer only to humans but to any creature that is not a god) squandered the wisdom given by the gods for different purposes as destruction and killing without meaning. However, he raised more genuine ideas such as the role of the gods in punishing humans for their roles instead of taking a passive role, just observation, which led to the conclusion that it is a sin of the gods not to do nothing.

I think, Zamasu was more ambitious of the villains because his Plan Zero Mortals carried out for the entire multiverse, and not only the Universe 10, getting rid of all the kaioshins and hakaishins so as not to have problems in eradicating all humans , preserving beauty in the Multiverse.

the concepts developed using the character of Zamasu turned out to be more striking and ambitious, coming to give a different point of view to the rigid cosmology of DB.

and is the most successful villain of the series,
In addition to achieving what other villains could not got immortality, killed goku (timeline) and managed to be one of the powerful ones in the multiverse

well frieza and king piccolo are best villains but zamasu occupied a third place in the list :D

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