What is there beyond strength?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Cipher
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Re: What is there beyond strength?

Post by Cipher » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:36 am

shadowfox87 wrote:One day we'll find out what Jiren's "selfish" wish was and I think we'll be surprised.
I don't think we'll ever be told, but I don't think we need to be. Without directly expressing it, the series makes it clear it's something related to fixing or addressing the past. Whether that means actually changing time, or gaining the ability to ensure no similar events occur again, the motivations and outcome are the same.

He's obsessed with the past and terrified of losing (being weak). His wish was going to play into one of those related elements, but by the end of the battle, he's overcome both on his own.

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Re: What is there beyond strength?

Post by Master Xar » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:49 am

Cipher wrote:
shadowfox87 wrote:One day we'll find out what Jiren's "selfish" wish was and I think we'll be surprised.
I don't think we'll ever be told, but I don't think we need to be. Without directly expressing it, the series makes it clear it's something related to fixing or addressing the past. Whether that means actually changing time, or gaining the ability to ensure no similar events occur again, the motivations and outcome are the same.

He's obsessed with the past and terrified of losing (being weak). His wish was going to play into one of those related elements, but by the end of the battle, he's overcome both on his own.
Exactly. They have already given us a general idea on what type of wish he was going for, or at least the idea that it has something to do with the past. Which honestly within that context... Goku, Freeza, and 17 had saved the universes by beating Jiren. Jiren was ultimately going to make a selfish wish and likely not revive the universes. Because of Zeno saying the wish was the ultimate test. If Jiren has gotten his wish, they’d have all been permanently erased.

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Re: What is there beyond strength?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:03 pm

Master Xar wrote:
Cipher wrote:
shadowfox87 wrote:One day we'll find out what Jiren's "selfish" wish was and I think we'll be surprised.
I don't think we'll ever be told, but I don't think we need to be. Without directly expressing it, the series makes it clear it's something related to fixing or addressing the past. Whether that means actually changing time, or gaining the ability to ensure no similar events occur again, the motivations and outcome are the same.

He's obsessed with the past and terrified of losing (being weak). His wish was going to play into one of those related elements, but by the end of the battle, he's overcome both on his own.
Exactly. They have already given us a general idea on what type of wish he was going for, or at least the idea that it has something to do with the past. Which honestly within that context... Goku, Freeza, and 17 had saved the universes by beating Jiren. Jiren was ultimately going to make a selfish wish and likely not revive the universes. Because of Zeno saying the wish was the ultimate test. If Jiren has gotten his wish, they’d have all been permanently erased.
You think Freeza wouldn't have made a selfish wish?
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Re: What is there beyond strength?

Post by shadowfox87 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:10 pm

Cipher wrote:
shadowfox87 wrote:One day we'll find out what Jiren's "selfish" wish was and I think we'll be surprised.
I don't think we'll ever be told, but I don't think we need to be. Without directly expressing it, the series makes it clear it's something related to fixing or addressing the past. Whether that means actually changing time, or gaining the ability to ensure no similar events occur again, the motivations and outcome are the same.

He's obsessed with the past and terrified of losing (being weak). His wish was going to play into one of those related elements, but by the end of the battle, he's overcome both on his own.
The manga may tell us more than the anime regarding Jiren's background. People don't like the pacing for the manga, but it allows for more time for other characters. If it all leads to more Jiren time, I'm ok with that.
DBS Manga vs Anime Differences: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42062
Timelines Explanation: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42105
Log Power Scaling: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40610
Science of Ultra Instinct: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40707

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Re: What is there beyond strength?

Post by Cipher » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:21 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:You think Freeza wouldn't have made a selfish wish?
He would, but the point is that when push comes to shove, he trusts Goku enough to forgo his chance at the wish and try to take Jiren out with him.

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Re: What is there beyond strength?

Post by TheOne » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:37 pm

Waluigiman wrote:Beyond strength is [spoiler]love.[/spoiler]
You may be joking around, but that could be a legitimate possibility. That’s the approach I see happening. Some kind of awkward friendship moment. They made it point in Super that Gokus character helps change people. Who better to change than someone who has potentially been isolated their whole life and used as a fighting machine?
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Re: What is there beyond strength?

Post by Waluigiman » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:40 pm

TheOne wrote:
Waluigiman wrote:Beyond strength is [spoiler]love.[/spoiler]
You may be joking around, but that could be a legitimate possibility. That’s the approach I see happening. Some kind of awkward friendship moment. They made it point in Super that Gokus character helps change people. Who better to change than someone who has potentially been isolated their whole life and used as a fighting machine?
Yeah I was partially joking. I was thinking Goku was going to learn something like that at the Tournament of Power considering the fact that he was being too impusilve with the desire of becoming the strongest to the point he was acting unusual. Remember when he randomly spoke like if he was evil like Goku Black? What happened to that?

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Re: What is there beyond strength?

Post by Green_Goblin » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:10 am

Love or immortality/not to be eraseable by Belmond.

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Re: What is there beyond strength?

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:31 am

Green_Goblin wrote:Love or immortality/not to be eraseable by Belmond.
Wha...? What do you mean not to be eraseable by belmod?
If u are talking about jiren, hes totally safe from belmods power, as jiren is beyond him. tho i doubt his wish had anything to do with power.

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Re: What is there beyond strength?

Post by Green_Goblin » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:18 am

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Green_Goblin wrote:Love or immortality/not to be eraseable by Belmond.
Wha...? What do you mean not to be eraseable by belmod?
If u are talking about jiren, hes totally safe from belmods power, as jiren is beyond him. tho i doubt his wish had anything to do with power.
It was a joke! I bet Jiren aimed at resurrecting his family, master and fallen friends.

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