An Overlooked Plothole

[PFM18]

There's a chance the elder Kaioshin was just speculating.

A lot of the "rules" "established" in the Buu arc have turned out to be faulty speculation.

This. None of it actually contradicts the original source material as much as it just replaces what is faulty speculation like what you said.

Also, I don't believe it was clear on screen what form they were in, we just kind of seeing them fall off but it isn't entirely clear which form they were in when this happened.

[Meshack]

Spot on!

Now hold on there man retcon is really only a bad retcon if it outright contradicts established information. I only see that the contradiction in the “one day in the past, one day in the present” thing with the official dates.

But as far as the Potara retcon it doesn’t contradict any previous information, as the Buu Saga had them defuse at an ambiguous amount of time. Really it only just means Old Kai was misinformed on the Potara earrings and demerits his credibility to an extent.

Compromising what makes sense to add tension to a story is nothing new. Remember when Korin had literal buckets of Senzu Beans? Not any more.

Did you forget the Future Trunks Arc?

[Meshack]

The manga has Kefla fused while Super Saiyan and we don't see her base form there. I'm going to assume it's just an error from the anime staff.

Yes, it’s called a plot hole. Lol

[Meshack]

There's a chance the elder Kaioshin was just speculating.

A lot of the "rules" "established" in the Buu arc have turned out to be faulty speculation.

This. None of it actually contradicts the original source material as much as it just replaces what is faulty speculation like what you said.

Also, I don't believe it was clear on screen what form they were in, we just kind of seeing them fall off but it isn't entirely clear which form they were in when this happened.

It would make no sense for them to “de-transform”. They had no idea of the rule. The two were Super Saiyan 2s when they fell off and fused. Look at the Future Trunks Arc. Gokou-Black was in Rosé when he transformed but Potara Zamasu was in his Rosé form. Same with Gokou and Vegeta. They were both in their normal forms and Vegetto was in his normal form. The fusion looked the same with Caulifla and Kale. It’s a plot hole.

[Bergamo]

Now hold on there man retcon is really only a bad retcon if it outright contradicts established information. I only see that the contradiction in the “one day in the past, one day in the present” thing with the official dates.

But as far as the Potara retcon it doesn’t contradict any previous information, as the Buu Saga had them defuse at an ambiguous amount of time. Really it only just means Old Kai was misinformed on the Potara earrings and demerits his credibility to an extent.

Compromising what makes sense to add tension to a story is nothing new. Remember when Korin had literal buckets of Senzu Beans? Not any more.

Did you forget the Future Trunks Arc?

What do you mean?

[Grimlock]

Gokou-Black was in Rosé when he transformed but Potara Zamasu was in his Rosé form.

Yeah, and if we look at Dragon Ball Fusions, then this is what base Merged Zamasu should look like. It would be interesting to see him transforming.

[Meshack]

Compromising what makes sense to add tension to a story is nothing new. Remember when Korin had literal buckets of Senzu Beans? Not any more.

Did you forget the Future Trunks Arc?

What do you mean?

Karin had a bucket of Senzu Beans and Gokou took then all.

[Meshack]

Gokou-Black was in Rosé when he transformed but Potara Zamasu was in his Rosé form.

Yeah, and if we look at Dragon Ball Fusions, then this is what base Merged Zamasu should look like. It would be interesting to see him transforming.

Kinda like that his normal form’s hair is grey because Black’s hair is black and Zamasu’s hair is white.

[Bergamo]

Did you forget the Future Trunks Arc?

What do you mean?

Karin had a bucket of Senzu Beans and Gokou took then all.

Where is it ever shown or stated that Goku ate all of the senzu beans. There were easily thousands of them, so it's pretty unreasonable to think that they could ever all be eaten, no matter how many times Earth is threatened.

[Meshack]

What do you mean?

Karin had a bucket of Senzu Beans and Gokou took then all.

Where is it ever shown or stated that Goku ate all of the senzu beans. There were easily thousands of them, so it's pretty unreasonable to think that they could ever all be eaten, no matter how many times Earth is threatened.

What? I guess you skipped the episode or chapter of Super

[Bergamo]

Karin had a bucket of Senzu Beans and Gokou took then all.

Where is it ever shown or stated that Goku ate all of the senzu beans. There were easily thousands of them, so it's pretty unreasonable to think that they could ever all be eaten, no matter how many times Earth is threatened.

What? I guess you skipped the episode or chapter of Super

Dude, just give me an episode number or something, because you're not making any sense.

[shadowfox87]

Another overlooked plothole that I don't see anyone being bothered by it it's one that Toyotaro/Toriyama came up with: if one day passes in the present, one day passes in the future.

This contradicts everything established post-AGE 764 and the dates would have to be changed if we go by this information.

I actually wrote a guide to explain how the one day passes in present and one day passes in future makes sense. This is the rule of concurrent time flow. It's in my sig. It doesn't contradict anything. It's just tricky to understand because time travel is like that in all pop culture.

[Grimlock]

It doesn't contradict anything.

No? If one day passes the same way between timelines, then logically so do years. Then why while in the present three years had passed but just one had passed in the future?

And with years passing the same, Trunks would have had to defeat the androids in AGE 787 and Cell in AGE 790, but that's not what we see stated in guidebooks. From AGE 767 until AGE 779 it's a twelve-year gap in the present, and if we use manga logic, that means in the future: AGE 787 + 12 = AGE 799 (if you go by the year of androids' defeat) or AGE 790 + 12 = AGE 802 (if you go by the year of Cell's defeat, who appeared three years after the androids).

Trunks would have had to face Goku Black in either of that year, but this just complicates even more: Trunks returns 17 years in the past, which means, following this "logic" the manga established: AGE 799 - 17 = AGE 782 or AGE 802 - 17 = AGE 785. Neither of those years match the one we see in Xenoverse 2 and both years are ahead of every events Dragon Ball Super showed.

Yes, "if one day passes in the present, one day passes in the future" does contradict everything. And therefore cannot be considered by any means.

[shadowfox87]

It doesn't contradict anything.

No? If one day passes the same way between timelines, then logically so do years. Then why while in the present three years had passed but just one had passed in the future?

And with years passing the same, Trunks would have had to defeat the androids in AGE 787 and Cell in AGE 790, but that's not what we see stated in guidebooks. From AGE 767 until AGE 779 it's a twelve-year gap in the present, and if we use manga logic, that means in the future: AGE 787 + 12 = AGE 799 (if you go by the year of androids' defeat) or AGE 790 + 12 = AGE 802 (if you go by the year of Cell's defeat, who appeared three years after the androids).

Trunks would have had to face Goku Black in either of that year, but this just complicates even more: Trunks returns 17 years in the past, which means, following this "logic" the manga established: AGE 799 - 17 = AGE 782 or AGE 802 - 17 = AGE 785. Neither of those years match the one we see in Xenoverse 2 and both years are ahead of every events Dragon Ball Super showed.

Yes, "if one day passes in the present, one day passes in the future" does contradict everything. And therefore cannot be considered by any means.

Yep, that's exactly what I mean. It's tricky to understand. You're thinking that since 3 years passed in the present, 3 years passed in the future and it did, but the Trunks that took the Time Machine the second time wasn't the one 3 years ahead in the future. Remember Trunks has a Time Machine which means he can change the settings and travel to any point in the future of the same timeline he went to without creating any new timelines. He adjusted his time machine on Age 785 to 2 years forward because he knew that's when the Androids would attack. He didn't wait 3 years in the future just to go to the main timeline exactly 3 years later.

I've explained everything from Cell Saga to Zamasu saga in terms of how the concurrent time flows. I'll just quote my thread:

During the Zamasu arc, we learned that when time passed in the main timeline, the same time passed in the future timeline. In DBZ, Trunks used the time machine the first time to travel from Age 784 to Age 764, August. He spent 1 day in the main timeline, so 1 day also passed in the future. He traveled back to the future, Age 784+1 day. He then spent 1 year in the future to collect the fuel for another trip. It is now Age 785 in the future and Age 765 in the main timeline since 1 year passed in each. He leaves from Age 785 (future) to Age 767, May 12 (3 years forward from the last trip) because this is the date when the Androids attack. Hence, he changed the settings on his time machine to 2 years forward (767-765). Trunks spent 15 days in the main timeline and left on Age 767, May 27 to the future, Age 785+15 days. If he had visited a point before Age 785+15 days, he would create a new timeline, because he would have traveled to a previous point in the future.

In DBS, Black invaded the future timeline in Age 795. Trunks spent a year fighting Black and collected enough fuel for another trip. Now it is Age 796 in the future. Thus, 11 years (796-785) passed in the future since his last visit. Therefore, 11 years also passed in the main timeline since the time he left, Age 767, May 27 + 11 years=Age 778, May 27. Yet, Trunks took the time machine to the main timeline on Age 779, December, which is 1 year and 7 months from Age 778, May 27. Thus, he changed the settings on his time machine to 1 year and 7 months forward (Age 779, December - Age 778, May 27). Each time they visited the future to fight Black, the same time also passed in the main timeline.

Trunks didn't defeat the the Androids in Age 787 but Age 785 and he defeated Cell in Age 788. You thought he defeated in Age 787 because you added 3 years to Age 784 since that's the time from when he left. That's incorrect. The reference timeline is the future. I explained why above.

In the Zamasu Saga, 11 years actually have passed in the future because 796-785. Age 785 is the year he arrived to the future the last time and 796 is the date which he left to escape Black. So you add 11 years to the present. This is also consistent with the Xenoverse 2 timeline. Remember that Trunks has a time machine, so he can change the settings and go to a point in the future of the main timeline. Time is still flowing equally but you need to know what the reference point is.