Lets have a peaceful discussion about grievances with modern Dragon ball.

[Master Xar]

Actually I don't have many problems with modern Dragon Ball. Yeah, we have bad animation but I was expecting something like that because Toei, and we have the problems with powerscalling. In "my chronology" I can fill the holes, but it would be much better if we have some explanations and/or more consistency.

Well do they need to? Did you have fun trying to fill the wholes or were at the very least curious about where all the fighters stack amongst one another? Sometimes it’s best not to be too obvious to understand where the characters stand amongst one another. Otherwise what would be the point in discussion in discussing everything?

I like Hunter X Hunter and have a far more clear understanding of Nen from the exposition, but it’s far less fun to analyze... because there is absolutely nothing to analyze, it is all so laid out in comparison to ki and it’s rules which allow far more room and movement to allow the show to stretch from it’s ambiguity, any fighter can have any ability or way to use Ki that can stretch as far as you can possibly imagine when there are no established rules besides what we can infer.

[Master Xar]

In order to make good longer arcs, they've got to bring something of an unpredictable and complex storyboard for a longer period to keep people hooked.

We need an arc like Namek again where you've got multiple parts turning, different characters with different motivations, characters coming in and out of the story, a villain who can keep us hooked and terrified, a final battle that's favor goes back and forth between the heroes and villains, etc. The Namek arc isn't just a great DB story, it's a great anime/manga story in general and a great blue print on how an arc should be done. Of course that's not taking into account the equally amazing Saiyan arc that leads directly into it which is why a lot of fans (including myself) consider that part of the story (Saiyan&Namek) as DB's peak in quality and storytelling.

The Future Trunks arc could have been that. Very poor choice on the writers' part, to reduce the Future Trunks arc to a mere 20 episodes, and stretch the Tournament of Power arc for 50+ episodes.

It is the general consensus that the first 10 episodes of the Future Trunks arc were some of the most impressive and gripping in the show. Then, after Beerus destroyed Present Zamasu, they rushed the arc to the ending, and so many things were poorly explained (Goku Black cutting a rift in reality, Infinite Zamasu, Trunks learning the Mafuba, Trunks learning the sword of hope and friendship) or not explained at all (Trunks reforging his broken sword with... hope and friendship?, Super Saiyan Rage), and many epic fights (such as Vegito vs. Fused Zamasu or Trunks vs. Fused Zamasu) were much shorter than they should have been.

Well yes, the general consensus is, but sometimes it’s best not to go with the general consensus. I can go back and rewatch something to get a good look myself to understand how things go and how they suit my imagination and hold up to my standards of my suspension of disbelief. Rewatch the arc and give it a shot. Do certain things need explaining for me or can I figure it out and come up with an explanation of what they are showing and telling me.


Remember my analysis on Zamasu and how I break down who he is as a person from what they show me and tell me in the story? Well that comes from rewatching and thinking about an arc and wonder “is this really that bad?”

It’s fun to speculate and look at the series from that point of view and why I love Dragonball. It’s a subdued homely story that builds on it’s established themes, characters, cool powers and fights. Do I feel they were a bit undercooked with the concepts and ideas in Dragonball Super? Well maybe, a few people in this thread make some compelling arguments about it.

[SSJgogeto]

Actually I don't have many problems with modern Dragon Ball. Yeah, we have bad animation but I was expecting something like that because Toei, and we have the problems with powerscalling. In "my chronology" I can fill the holes, but it would be much better if we have some explanations and/or more consistency.

Well do they need to? Did you have fun trying to fill the wholes or were at the very least curious about where all the fighters stack amongst one another? Sometimes it’s best not to be too obvious to understand where the characters stand amongst one another. Otherwise what would be the point in discussion in discussing everything?

I like Hunter X Hunter and have a far more clear understanding of Nen from the exposition, but it’s far less fun to analyze... because there is absolutely nothing to analyze, it is all so laid out in comparison to ki and it’s rules which allow far more room and movement to allow the show to stretch from it’s ambiguity, any fighter can have any ability or way to use Ki that can stretch as far as you can possibly imagine when there are no established rules besides what we can infer.

I was thinking more about other people when I said this. There's a lot of complain about inconsistency, but in fact I think it's fun to analyze these things. However, it would be nice to confirm some theories about things like SS Rage and Beyond God.

[obiwan23s]

For me, I have one major bone to pick with Dragon Ball Super that I think would elevate the show to being exactly as good as Dragon Ball Z with potential to be better. I think Super Saiyan Blue was introduced much earlier than it ever should have been and consequently torpedoed the power scaling for the rest of the show, which is a big part of what makes some of Super's writing bad. Allow me to explain (this will be kind of long).

Super Saiyan Blue is tough because it was introduced in the movie and is thus married to that plot. I don't think it should have came in during the Golden Freeza arc though. Toriyama writes that fight as though Goku and Freeza are using the same strategy on each other. They're both holding back a new transformation. At that point, the audience had already seen Super Saiyan God before, but Freeza hadn't. Toriyama's mistake was forcing a new form onto Goku for that fight. The previous movie established SSG Goku could hold his own against Beerus, so why would he need an even stronger form to fight a 5th form of Freeza? Freeza even has a line where he says "My father said never to go anywhere near Majin Boo or the God of Destruction Beerus." So if Freeza is afraid of Beerus, and SSG Goku is close to Beerus in strength, it seems like the strength ladder should be Beerus > SSG Goku > Golden Freeza. Toriyama could have had Goku be holding back Super Saiyan God instead of Super Saiyan Blue for this fight and literally not changed his plot at all. It would have also been a great addition to the plot to have Vegeta debut the red haired Super Saiyan God form here as well (more on this later).

I think Super Saiyan Blue should have debuted in the next arc. Goku and Vegeta are training with Whis when Champa shows up and, at this point it's suggested that Whis is trying to teach Goku and Vegeta to reach a state where they fight and defend instinctually (this ultimately becomes Ultra Instinct). The Universe 6 arc introduces the Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-ken combination for Goku during his fight with Hit. It's fun to see the Kaio-ken again after all this time, but this is where Super Saiyan Blue needed to come in. I think this fight would have more or less worked the same plot-wise if, instead of Goku busting out the Kaio-ken at that moment, he says thinks he knows what Whis means about fighting instinctually and transforms into Super Saiyan Blue for the first time. Overall, I don't have a problem with how easily Super Saiyan Blue is earned in the canon of Dragon Ball Super. Goku and Vegeta probably intuitively understand how to go Super Saiyan better than any of the Saiyans, so it's not hard for me to buy that they could repeat the process once they understand how to control the God ki in SSG form. This would have given the Universe 6 arc a great climactic moment while also establishing Hit much better with him being a little stronger than Goku's new form.

Vegeta could have debuted Super Saiyan Blue in the Future Trunks arc against Goku Black. This arc also could have has Goku and Vegeta getting the others together to do the Super Saiyan God ritual for Trunks, since he's the only Saiyan alive in his timeline and thus unable to obtain SSG there. They could have given SSB to Trunks after that, possibly even in the same moment he gets that cop-out powerup on Merged Zamasu. That would have still been a little cheap, but much less cheesy.

This would have made the Tournament of Power arc a little better by at least establishing that Goku and Vegeta were truly maxing out the limits of SSB by that time, forcing them into cool down periods. You wouldn't even need to change the writing at that point. Part of the reason that the Ultra Instinct transformations went over so well with people was because Goku really was pushed to his limit to use that form. Super Saiyan Blue deserved to be established in the series a little later than it was. It would have allowed Super to establish power scaling a lot better and smoothed out some of the more rough plot points that suffered because of power scaling.

[Master Xar]

You do know this thread was for people who have not given up, right?

Yes, but:

• It is not like people who have given up cannot state their opinions nonetheless.
• You specified that it is not for people who have given up on the franchise, which is not my case. I have only given up on the main series, not the franchise. Luckily Dragon Ball is not just made up of the series that you watch, we have other ways to enjoy it.

Toriyama said multiple times that he's not working alone and ideas such as Broly being brought back was from the "editorial office", whatever that is. The problem is you've got a staff of writers who can't seem to think out of the box and Toriyama himself isn't the writer he once was so he's not pushing for comepletely new idea and instead is just giving them and fans what they want. That's not to say we haven't gotten anything new but like you said, they never realize their full potential because they seem to not want to spend too much time away from familiar concepts.

I know Toriyama is not the only problem here, but you know, since he is who he is, he gets credited even for stuff not entirely his fault, well, since/as long as Toriyama allows it he is partially guilty. At any rate, this "editorial office" then should have been composed of people who really want this franchise to move on to new directions and horizons, not ones that push even further into the safe zone. If they are the source of this whole nonsense then Toriyama should leave and proceed to work with people at Dimps company instead...

Jaco’s manga explains that Saiyans stay in a kid’s body for a long time, and they use it to their advantage to deceive their opponents and later they have a rapid growth into a body more suitable for battle. This is exactly what happened to Goku.
Kid Trunks is different from his future counterpart, apparently. I wouldn’t mind him finally growing though.
I agree how they still act way too much like kids. The same is true for Marron.
One reason why I want Toriyama to finally go over his manga ending is specifically because I want to see Goten and Trunks finally doing things.

Jaco's explanation does not work on Trunks, his height was already very well established so present Trunks should just obey the laws that Future Trunks imposed. I'll give you Goten though, even though if it was the case to portray Trunks properly, Toei/Toriyama would certainly make Goten taller too. And present Trunks is not different from future Trunks when it comes to biological matter. And yeah, to make things worse, we cannot forget about Marron too.

Agree. I also want a story passed AGE 784, it's high time for a "new cast" or at least give them more screentime and whatnot, which is also something that they are seemingly afraid to do so.

You see a concept and you think “more expanding on this concept = better” you think that just because the series implies or introduces new things and concepts and simply that the fans want them to be expanded on, means that it should.

No dude, stop jumping into conclusions. It does not necessarily mean it will be better, that actually relies on the execution. But here is exactly where video-games come in, the way they handle alternate dimension is fine by me, so they prove that expanding on that concept will only enrich the story, the lore in-universe. If it's gonna be good or bad is another issue, but it's a fact that dealing with other ideas not touched previously may get things at least more interesting. Why do you think the Shadow Dragons stand out this much? They do revolve around a good idea, only that its execution was not good.

Please never say that only because "it's expanding means that it's better" issue about me anymore, you're only making false claims, twisting my words and the way I view things.

...which is already fanservice in and of itself from that logic. Both fans “want” something more or less out of this so both are already fanservice.

Yes, obviously it is a fanservice. I want the series to have a story out of the box, it gives me that kind of story, it is a fanservice. It is not different from people who want endless fights, they get what they want, it is a fanservice. At this point everything is fanservice, it has become impossible to do something without listening to what your fanbase is asking. So I don't really know what was your point here.

1.) No. Subconsciously you really haven’t given up on the series. If you really had you’d have just already stated your opinion and left. You just want the series to be taken to a new direction with Heroes because you feel the main series isn’t doing what you want. You like the “concepts” Heroes introduces and you feel like standards of “execution” in Heroes and Xenoverse more than Super gave you, you’re more into the games. The structure of and opinion of both is still once again. Completely subjective. Storytelling is an art form.

2.) ok so then why did you imply Super being fanservice is a bad thing? This is a show. Somebody wants it to be shown to potential fans and give service to those fans.

[BWri]

Well I can definitely agree that Dragonball should stop “upping the ante”’

After Beerus (if this is possibly where the multiverse stops or if the GoDs are all at the same or close level)
I feel that we should stop with the surpassing of the gods, at least as far as on-screen goes. The theme of “surpassing the gods” should definitely stop at Beerus here. Because it’s at this point we are at a point of contention or ridiculousness as far as our suspension of disbelief unless we are to assume they’ll build up a further expansion of the multiverse and reveal that Zeno isn’t the “true god” here (which again isn’t a problem if they execute it well)

I just feel like we need to not go for anymore “surpass the gods” themes to keep the story grounded. Or if the story does decide to do so, it’ll need to shift paradigms, pull a JJBA Stone Ocean rewrite of reality or find some way to get the story back to ground level.

I've long held the belief that DB needs a reboot. The main continuity has become severely bloated and a fresh start would really help it iron out the kinks and set new precedents to follow up on.

Theres a way to do a soft reboot of the show's power scaling without rebooting the whole show. Toriyama missed his first opportunity to use god ki to do this. God ki couldve been a useful barrier to reset the power tiers. For instance, characters couldve reached mortal limits with mortal ki, while god ki opened up a whole new realm of power. Mortals who become strong enough on their own and gain the eye of the gods, those who have access to divine rituals, and those handpicked by the gods couldve been the new candidates for the god levels. It would've gone hand in hand with the universal survival arc and you could even have cool moments where someone like Krillin or some new mortal character is recognized for their acts of bravery and granted god powers to fight on behalf of the gods.

Buuuuuut, since its too late for that idea, Toriyama could easily either have a rogue god wipe the power slate clean to start all the fighters or just the top tiers from level one again or they could have a fighter who steals Ki, not the same as the early androids, but who has techniques to legitimately use a fighters ki against them. Introduce enough of these fighters and every new villain doesn't have to be 50 times stronger than the last ... also villains dont have to be 50 times stronger than everyone else to be effective. Jiren didnt need to be the new Frieza.

And finally, they could still easily introduce a new type of ki that nullifies the others. Maybe demon ki and its a type of ki that allows you to bypass ki based defenses and nullify ki based attacks to a degree. Theres a ton of ways to fix the power imbalance in the franchise and none of them involve stackking more power and forms on top of Goku, but the series is married to proceeding in that direction it seems.

I'm still kind of butthurt hardly anyone did any intelligent training ahead of the ToP. Like this is the potential end of the universe, why are they not coordinating every cheat code training method they have? I'm talking, sensu farming, gravity training, time chamber spamming with king kai teaching everyone kaioken and Whis providing other combat instructions, bringing Yardrats to Earth to teach IT in the time chamber. Its more like they were training for some local boxing match, more warming up than anything.

[emperior]

Now that they have finally fixed the show’s look with new gorgeous designs and colours, I think the only true grievance I have with modern Dragon Ball is the lack of blood. I hope they will bring it back.

[BWri]

I like Hunter X Hunter and have a far more clear understanding of Nen from the exposition, but it’s far less fun to analyze... because there is absolutely nothing to analyze, it is all so laid out in comparison to ki and it’s rules which allow far more room and movement to allow the show to stretch from it’s ambiguity, any fighter can have any ability or way to use Ki that can stretch as far as you can possibly imagine when there are no established rules besides what we can infer.

I like your premise, but the execution of Nen vs Ki has produced the opposite effect of your observations. Nen with its clear cut components and restrictions produces powers and abilities far more creative anything seen with Ki in Dragon Ball. Whats more, because we are aware of the restrictions of Nen, fights are more strategically engaging and we get a grasp of the stakes right away. Sometimes the most creative ideas are born from restrictions.

Dragon Ball is vague and open ended but ironically that's resulted in creative stagnation. Toei is trying some creative stuff to vary the combat but really all that has produced is a wide variety of energy weapons like Goku Black's ki blade and scythe. DB needs to lay it all out then build upon that. Ki in DB can actually do many of the things Nen can, like protect the body with aura, fortify punches and kicks, enhance the body, make one faster, increase ones vision, make one stronger, but its never been broken down and explained all the way and expanded upon like HxH.

For me, I have one major bone to pick with Dragon Ball Super that I think would elevate the show to being exactly as good as Dragon Ball Z with potential to be better. I think Super Saiyan Blue was introduced much earlier than it ever should have been and consequently torpedoed the power scaling for the rest of the show, which is a big part of what makes some of Super's writing bad. Allow me to explain (this will be kind of long).

Super Saiyan Blue is tough because it was introduced in the movie and is thus married to that plot. I don't think it should have came in during the Golden Freeza arc though. Toriyama writes that fight as though Goku and Freeza are using the same strategy on each other. They're both holding back a new transformation. At that point, the audience had already seen Super Saiyan God before, but Freeza hadn't. Toriyama's mistake was forcing a new form onto Goku for that fight.

OMG, you hit the nail on the head! I figured that out when I took the time to review all the transformations. We actually didnt get enough to expand on the original SSG transformation. The power of the raging fire motif increases more and more and results in an out of control wildfire like aura, so Goku and Vegeta have to tame it which results in the calm of SSB. Though I hate SSBlue cuz I think it looks tacky, I do like how you built it up. It solves the problem of power escalation effortlessly by inserting mastery. That was the most compelling part of the DBS manga, was the mastering of SSB, using concepts set up by Whis.

[zarmack]

1. Lack of creativity and originality with storytelling. The Goku Black arc was the only arc where they tried something new.
2. The "Goku and Vegeta" show, with no one else getting any kind of character development nor relevance.
3. General lack of stakes and tension in the stories.
4. Being way too light-hearted & gag-ish and lacking in gravitas compared to DB(Z). Being comedic at the wrong times and not taking itself seriously enough like DB(Z) did.
5. Bad art and character design from Yamamuro, Toyotaro and Toriyama. The only new character designs from Post-BoG DB that I thought were any good are Shallot, Goku Black, Cumber, Android 21, Merged Zamasu and Kefla.
6. The series not at all improving on and learning from DB(Z)'s mistakes.
7. General lack of truly menacing, evil villains. Black/Zamasu was the only new villain we got in modern DB.
8. Lack of blood and gore, which takes away much of the impact and tension from fights.

[JazzMazz]

I think a lack of visible blood really isn't necessary, implied gore or off-screen gore, presented in a menacing enough manner can be just as, or more effective than showing the injuries in some cases.

I think my biggest problem with the series narratively is its recent proclivity to fall back upon certain structures, namely tournaments, without doing much different, or exploring certain aspects of the tournament differently(for example, the complete lack of a battle royale feel in the TOP). However, I think that comes down to another bigger problem with the series than with the narrative itself, namely being the execution of these narrative plot points and premises.

Hopefully, as of this fresh mindset from the anime staff, this leads into a properly executed anime series(if it does return). I've sort of given up on the manga really improving from its current state, which may not be a bad thing for some, but for me, its just, really hard to care for at all anymore.

The other narrative problem, is how completely sporadic a lot of these story arcs feel with each other. They often feel rather disconnected and disjointed...

[Son-Kakaroto]

I think a lack of visible blood really isn't necessary, implied gore or off-screen gore, presented in a menacing enough manner can be just as, or more effective than showing the injuries in some cases.

I think my biggest problem with the series narratively is its recent proclivity to fall back upon certain structures, namely tournaments, without doing much different, or exploring certain aspects of the tournament differently(for example, the complete lack of a battle royale feel in the TOP). However, I think that comes down to another bigger problem with the series than with the narrative itself, namely being the execution of these narrative plot points and premises.

Hopefully, as of this fresh mindset from the anime staff, this leads into a properly executed anime series(if it does return). I've sort of given up on the manga really improving from its current state, which may not be a bad thing for some, but for me, its just, really hard to care for at all anymore.

The other narrative problem, is how completely sporadic a lot of these story arcs feel with each other. They often feel rather disconnected and disjointed...

Are you saying having Little to no blood is just as good as blood?

[SaiyanGod117]

I think a lack of visible blood really isn't necessary, implied gore or off-screen gore, presented in a menacing enough manner can be just as, or more effective than showing the injuries in some cases.

I disagree, you got any effective examples of this?

[Dbzk1999]

I think a lack of visible blood really isn't necessary, implied gore or off-screen gore, presented in a menacing enough manner can be just as, or more effective than showing the injuries in some cases.

I disagree, you got any effective examples of this?

Remember in the first broly movie where baby broly gets stabbed? The scene didn’t necessarily show visible blood, but it showed the shadow of him getting stabbed while he’s screaming in terror. Then it shows the aftermath of broly and Paragus having been tossed away. Speaking outside of dragon ball, there’s the animated movie Batman Beyond Return of the Joker, in particular the death of the Joker

In the original unedited version, Tim drake shoots joker with the gun that Joker wanted him to shoot Batman with. However, the “censored” version involved Tim pushing Joker into the electric wires that Joker used to torture him, and the Joker slips and pulls a lever, electrocuting himself. It doesn’t show, Joker actually being electrocuted, but the camera goes to Batgirl as she hears the joker’s curling scream. It may have Ben the “censored” version, but I’d say it was definitely more unsettling

[Tavarano]

I think a lack of visible blood really isn't necessary, implied gore or off-screen gore, presented in a menacing enough manner can be just as, or more effective than showing the injuries in some cases.

I disagree, you got any effective examples of this?

Remember in the first broly movie where baby broly gets stabbed? The scene didn’t necessarily show visible blood, but it showed the shadow of him getting stabbed while he’s screaming in terror. Then it shows the aftermath of broly and Paragus having been tossed away. Speaking outside of dragon ball, there’s the animated movie Batman Beyond Return of the Joker, in particular the death of the Joker

In the original unedited version, Tim drake shoots joker with the gun that Joker wanted him to shoot Batman with. However, the “censored” version involved Tim pushing Joker into the electric wires that Joker used to torture him, and the Joker slips and pulls a lever, electrocuting himself. It doesn’t show, Joker actually being electrocuted, but the camera goes to Batgirl as she hears the joker’s curling scream. It may have Ben the “censored” version, but I’d say it was definitely more unsettling

It can be effective, another example is when Cell crushes Piccolo and ChiChi's heads in Gohan's dream, but I can't think of anything that is actually more effective not shown, perhaps something that can't be animated in a believeable way, your example isn't applicable because those were two different scenes.

[Dbzk1999]

I disagree, you got any effective examples of this?

Remember in the first broly movie where baby broly gets stabbed? The scene didn’t necessarily show visible blood, but it showed the shadow of him getting stabbed while he’s screaming in terror. Then it shows the aftermath of broly and Paragus having been tossed away. Speaking outside of dragon ball, there’s the animated movie Batman Beyond Return of the Joker, in particular the death of the Joker

In the original unedited version, Tim drake shoots joker with the gun that Joker wanted him to shoot Batman with. However, the “censored” version involved Tim pushing Joker into the electric wires that Joker used to torture him, and the Joker slips and pulls a lever, electrocuting himself. It doesn’t show, Joker actually being electrocuted, but the camera goes to Batgirl as she hears the joker’s curling scream. It may have Ben the “censored” version, but I’d say it was definitely more unsettling

It can be effective, another example is when Cell crushes Piccolo and ChiChi's heads in Gohan's dream, but I can't think of anything that is actually more effective not shown, perhaps something that can't be animated in a believeable way, your example isn't applicable because those were two different scenes.

How is it not applicable when the point is that one version of a certain scene was more effective than the other version despite being less “Gorey” in comparison

[Tavarano]

Remember in the first broly movie where baby broly gets stabbed? The scene didn’t necessarily show visible blood, but it showed the shadow of him getting stabbed while he’s screaming in terror. Then it shows the aftermath of broly and Paragus having been tossed away. Speaking outside of dragon ball, there’s the animated movie Batman Beyond Return of the Joker, in particular the death of the Joker

In the original unedited version, Tim drake shoots joker with the gun that Joker wanted him to shoot Batman with. However, the “censored” version involved Tim pushing Joker into the electric wires that Joker used to torture him, and the Joker slips and pulls a lever, electrocuting himself. It doesn’t show, Joker actually being electrocuted, but the camera goes to Batgirl as she hears the joker’s curling scream. It may have Ben the “censored” version, but I’d say it was definitely more unsettling

It can be effective, another example is when Cell crushes Piccolo and ChiChi's heads in Gohan's dream, but I can't think of anything that is actually more effective not shown, perhaps something that can't be animated in a believeable way, your example isn't applicable because those were two different scenes.

How is it not applicable when the point is that one version of a certain scene was more effective than the other version despite being less “Gorey” in comparison

Showing him getting electrocuted on screen would be more effective than offscreening and implying it, in your example there is a completely different take on the scene, if it was a fair comparison then in the uncensored version you would see the gunshot and in the censored one, you would only hear it.
Speaking of getting electrocuted to death, there was a scene like that in DB, I can't see how it would be more effective to just hear the sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFUFlI2k8ZA

[Dbzk1999]

It can be effective, another example is when Cell crushes Piccolo and ChiChi's heads in Gohan's dream, but I can't think of anything that is actually more effective not shown, perhaps something that can't be animated in a believeable way, your example isn't applicable because those were two different scenes.

How is it not applicable when the point is that one version of a certain scene was more effective than the other version despite being less “Gorey” in comparison

Showing him getting electrocuted on screen would be more effective than offscreening and implying it, in your example there is a completely different take on the scene, if it was a fair comparison then in the uncensored version you would see the gunshot and in the censored one, you would only hear it.
Speaking of getting electrocuted to death, there was a scene like that in DB, I can't see how it would be more effective to just hear the sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFUFlI2k8ZA

Then I think you and I are just gonna disagree on that then

[SaiyanGod117]

Remember in the first broly movie where baby broly gets stabbed? The scene didn’t necessarily show visible blood, but it showed the shadow of him getting stabbed while he’s screaming in terror.

While it certainly didn't show blood, it did show a baby being visibly stabbed through the gut, in which was already pushing the limits blood or not. Since they rarely in anime will ever show little kids, much less babies being gruesomely killed.

Then it shows the aftermath of Broly and Paragus having been tossed away.

With Broly's knife wound conveniently gone.

Speaking outside of dragon ball, there’s the animated movie Batman Beyond Return of the Joker, in particular the death of the Joker

In the original unedited version, Tim drake shoots joker with the gun that Joker wanted him to shoot Batman with. However, the “censored” version involved Tim pushing Joker into the electric wires that Joker used to torture him, and the Joker slips and pulls a lever, electrocuting himself. It doesn’t show, Joker actually being electrocuted, but the camera goes to Batgirl as she hears the joker’s curling scream. It may have Ben the “censored” version, but I’d say it was definitely more unsettling

I saw that as a kid, it wasn't all that in fact it seemed pretty tame to me. Nonetheless, I'm mainly talking about fighting because they can't have constant cutaway whenever something bloody or gruesome is about to happen as that would ruin the fight.

[Acetona]

It lacks originality and ambition. Toriyama seems content on writing short, self-contained, small-scope arcs which focus on one or two neat concepts, rather than utilize the world and characters he has created to their fullest potential. Toyotaro lacks the creativity to do anything interesting with them and really bring Toriyama's plots to life. He's constantly referencing the original series and his chapters are filled with exposition explaining every little thing, even stuff that should be obvious and you could infer from context. He's very obviously a fan and not a writer. And the anime tries to expand on Toriyama's napkin plots with their own unique, interesting ideas but they never go anywhere with them, and mostly just fall back on rehashing moments from the original series in order to cater to the casual fans. At the same time, it feels like a lot of the staff doesn't understand what made Dragon Ball unique and special and they just attempt to apply modern Shounen tropes and clichés to the series.

So, get some new blood in because Super lacks any kind of identity whatsoever. The manga desperately tries to be DBZ again and the anime desperately tries to be generic battle Shounen number 4982. For all of its faults, GT felt different. It has its own feel, even if it takes a while until it gets its own identity and separates itself completely from its parents. Bring someone in who understands the series enough to want it to push forward and go into new territory, but not someone who is obsessed with referencing the previous series at every possible opportunity like Toyotaro.

Once more, I couldn't agree more with Doctor.

Other improvements that could be made:
1. Fire Sumitomo. Give us Hiroshi Takaki and his marvelous orchestral yet modern sounding music. Just listen to any of his Precure or Super Sentai soundtracks.
2. Probably impossible, but get Torishima to give some sense on Toriyama. He's lost his touch way too much.
3. Just complementing the above post, I wish they would stop bringing characters back for the sake of nostalgia. Like, they created Kale and now are bringing Broly back. This is dumb as hell and feels cheap.
4. Minor nitpick, also mostly impossible, but replace Nishimura on his sound effect duties. Arai won't return for sure, but we could at least get some 100% new sound effects. It's better than those that sound like the old ones at the same time they sound lame.

[Dbzk1999]

It lacks originality and ambition. Toriyama seems content on writing short, self-contained, small-scope arcs which focus on one or two neat concepts, rather than utilize the world and characters he has created to their fullest potential. Toyotaro lacks the creativity to do anything interesting with them and really bring Toriyama's plots to life. He's constantly referencing the original series and his chapters are filled with exposition explaining every little thing, even stuff that should be obvious and you could infer from context. He's very obviously a fan and not a writer. And the anime tries to expand on Toriyama's napkin plots with their own unique, interesting ideas but they never go anywhere with them, and mostly just fall back on rehashing moments from the original series in order to cater to the casual fans. At the same time, it feels like a lot of the staff doesn't understand what made Dragon Ball unique and special and they just attempt to apply modern Shounen tropes and clichés to the series.

So, get some new blood in because Super lacks any kind of identity whatsoever. The manga desperately tries to be DBZ again and the anime desperately tries to be generic battle Shounen number 4982. For all of its faults, GT felt different. It has its own feel, even if it takes a while until it gets its own identity and separates itself completely from its parents. Bring someone in who understands the series enough to want it to push forward and go into new territory, but not someone who is obsessed with referencing the previous series at every possible opportunity like Toyotaro.

Once more, I couldn't agree more with Doctor.

Other improvements that could be made:
1. Fire Sumitomo. Give us Hiroshi Takaki and his marvelous orchestral yet modern sounding music. Just listen to any of his Precure or Super Sentai soundtracks.
2. Probably impossible, but get Torishima to give some sense on Toriyama. He's lost his touch way too much.
3. Just complementing the above post, I wish they would stop bringing characters back for the sake of nostalgia. Like, they created Kale and now are bringing Broly back. This is dumb as hell and feels cheap.
4. Minor nitpick, also mostly impossible, but replace Nishimura on his sound effect duties. Arai won't return for sure, but we could at least get some 100% new sound effects. It's better than those that sound like the old ones at the same time they sound lame.

Just to address the bolded, my companion, torishima approved and praised RoF. Him being there honestly means jack all