Do Super Saiyan Multipliers Matter

[Bergamo]

In the fandom right now, there are a lot of debates about canon. Some people even consider the only canon continuation of Super the original manuscript that Toriyama sent to Toei and Toyotaro, and yet people act like the Super Saiyan multipliers from the Dragon Ball Super Exciting Guide are undeniable fact. Why is this?

The multipliers don't necessarily fit with the story, because on Namek Goku was exhausted, and it's likely that 50*Exhausted Goku < 100% Frieza. I also find it kind of weird to think that Goku trained and perfected his Super Saiyan form with Gohan in the HTC when he could have just trained his base form.

Multipliers also don't work in newer properties like the BoG movie. If Beerus was fighting base Goku and then Goku transformed into a Super Saiyan and forced him 70% of his power, then that means he was fighting him at 1.4% of his power. I didnt get the impression that impression from the film.

My final comment is simply, if you don't enjoy a fight scene because it doesn't fit with a guidebook from 2009, maybe you need to remember why you started loving the series in the first place. Nobody started liking Dragon Ball because of the numbers, and this is something I wholeheartedly believe.

[Saturnine]

I miss the times from before the SeG came out. With no set in stone multis, everyone had their own idea about them and discussions were more interesting and vivid because of this. Decreasing multis were a fan favorite, for example.

For one thing, I don't think Gohan's SSj2 was written as 2x at all - the power increase was staggering at the time, at least 4x is warranted in my opinion. Also, SSj should be a low multi for fusion characters, who are already SSj2/3 level in base. If Gotenks was stronger in base post-RoSaT than he was as an SSj pre, then I sincerely doubt Toriyama wrote his SSj as 50x.

And last but not least, there's the issue of FPSSj's standing in relation to Grade 2 and 3. In the only thing I agree with SethTheProgrammer on, I think that Grade 4 is stronger than at least 2, and for that reason should have a higher multi, incorporating the boost from G2.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I miss the times from before the SeG came out. With no set in stone multis, everyone had their own idea about them and discussions were more interesting and vivid because of this. Decreasing multis were a fan favorite, for example.

For one thing, I don't think Gohan's SSj2 was written as 2x at all - the power increase was staggering at the time, at least 4x is warranted in my opinion. Also, SSj should be a low multi for fusion characters, who are already SSj2/3 level in base. If Gotenks was stronger in base post-RoSaT than he was as an SSj pre, then I sincerely doubt Toriyama wrote his SSj as 50x.

And last but not least, there's the issue of FPSSj's standing in relation to Grade 2 and 3. In the only thing I agree with SethTheProgrammer on, I think that Grade 4 is stronger than at least 2, and for that reason should have a higher multi, incorporating the boost from G2.

What's SeG?

[Aizamasu]

I've always thought that the Super saiyan multipliers were stupid. I think it's clear in the original manga that Super saiyan isn't a 50x boost (especially after Freeza saga). If Super saiyan was a 50x boost, I think Dr Gero would have reacted a bit more to Goku transforming the first time (if Goku really was 50x stronger than he thought).

And the Super saiyan multipliers haven't been mentioned in the manga in any form.

[Jesus-is Lord]

In the fandom right now, there are a lot of debates about canon. Some people even consider the only canon continuation of Super the original manuscript that Toriyama sent to Toei and Toyotaro, and yet people act like the Super Saiyan multipliers from the Dragon Ball Super Exciting Guide are undeniable fact. Why is this?

The multipliers don't necessarily fit with the story, because on Namek Goku was exhausted, and it's likely that 50*Exhausted Goku < 100% Frieza. I also find it kind of weird to think that Goku trained and perfected his Super Saiyan form with Gohan in the HTC when he could have just trained his base form.

Multipliers also don't work in newer properties like the BoG movie. If Beerus was fighting base Goku and then Goku transformed into a Super Saiyan and forced him 70% of his power, then that means he was fighting him at 1.4% of his power. I didnt get the impression that impression from the film.

My final comment is simply, if you don't enjoy a fight scene because it doesn't fit with a guidebook from 2009, maybe you need to remember why you started loving the series in the first place. Nobody started liking Dragon Ball because of the numbers, and this is something I wholeheartedly believe.

You have a LOT of things wrong here, sir.

First of all, that "50x" multiplyer is an CONFIRMED and stated by akira toriyama. Now sometimes he may not write the story with that in mind, but it's objectivly 50x base. With that, we also know goku's power level first time as ssj is 150,000,000 while full power frieza was only 120,000,000. Therefore, ssj goku > frieza. Goku was I guess exhausted but it dosen't sem to matter because ssj was confirmed 50x base, and his base was 3 Million, now it's 150 million all confirmed by toriyama. And could easily argue that the shock and hydrenaline of emotions goku got as he saw Kuririn die was enough to push his power back to normal as base and then from then on push it to ssj.

They did train in their base form, but the purpose of them going into the HTC was to find forms that could go beyond the level of ssj because they wouldn't be strong enough in only a year to have a strong enough ssj to match cell, much less beat him. Training your base for then just to go ssj and pounce on cell is not easy (all in a year might I add), their ssj forms were weaker then 18 and 17. This is Akira-level writing, not super's . Power creeps dont happen after a few hours of training. loool. Once Goku saw his acended variations grades of ssj used a lot of energy consumpution and were slower, he saw the weakness in his own ssj form - and found it best to master the form so it could have no drain in stamnia when using it, and less energy loss. That's why goku ended up mastering ssj, not because it had anything to do with multipliers nor does this de-vaule the multiplyer of ssj. lol.

Except regular ssj goku never made berrus use 70% of his power, it was a ssj goku with power of ssj god - not regular ssj goku. Regular ssj goku would have gotten murked by berrus in the BoG film because even ssj3 couldn't lay a finger on berrus.

Those were some of the mis-leading/wrong things of your comment
But with that said...
SSj2 and ssj3 multiplyers are only by guide-book and not Akira's mouth as far as we know - so I take those multiplyers as more of an grain of salt.
Though I know why you made this post,
You're trying to in-directly defend toyotaro power scailing in the early parts of the trunks arc. Hahahah, my dude. We love toyotaro and his manga very much - at least some of us - But toyotaro Executed poorly on the power scailing in the beggining of the arc,
If base black is far and shoulders above full power ssj2 trunks and ssj3 goku, But yet vegeta as a mere ssj2 (even taking into acount vegeta using the same boost trunks did with his ssj2) taking on and having an edgy over ssj black makes sense? ... No. That's not defendable, it's bad power scailing. Simple as that.
However, you can cushion it by saying ssj3 goku and full power ssj2 trunks are only fodder to ssj black instead of base black, and then you insert the headcanon (pure headcanon it is) that vegeta "re-tained" the power of My bulma ssj2, you can kinda squeeze it through as permissible. It dosen't mean I didn't enjoy the fight, but bad power scailing does ruin the fight because it's hard to feel the tension if the writers can't create a belivable power scale and keeps consitent to it - hence a big reason why many don't like the anime of super because the power scailing was terrible - and that includes having unblieveable multiplyers.

Hopefully this made sense...

[Bergamo]

In the fandom right now, there are a lot of debates about canon. Some people even consider the only canon continuation of Super the original manuscript that Toriyama sent to Toei and Toyotaro, and yet people act like the Super Saiyan multipliers from the Dragon Ball Super Exciting Guide are undeniable fact. Why is this?

The multipliers don't necessarily fit with the story, because on Namek Goku was exhausted, and it's likely that 50*Exhausted Goku < 100% Frieza. I also find it kind of weird to think that Goku trained and perfected his Super Saiyan form with Gohan in the HTC when he could have just trained his base form.

Multipliers also don't work in newer properties like the BoG movie. If Beerus was fighting base Goku and then Goku transformed into a Super Saiyan and forced him 70% of his power, then that means he was fighting him at 1.4% of his power. I didnt get the impression that impression from the film.

My final comment is simply, if you don't enjoy a fight scene because it doesn't fit with a guidebook from 2009, maybe you need to remember why you started loving the series in the first place. Nobody started liking Dragon Ball because of the numbers, and this is something I wholeheartedly believe.

You have a LOT of things wrong here, sir.

First of all, that "50x" multiplyer is an CONFIRMED and stated by akira toriyama. Now sometimes he may not write the story with that in mind, but it's objectivly 50x base. With that, we also know goku's power level first time as ssj is 150,000,000 while full power frieza was only 120,000,000. Therefore, ssj goku > frieza. Goku was I guess exhausted but it dosen't sem to matter because ssj was confirmed 50x base, and his base was 3 Million, now it's 150 million all confirmed by toriyama. And could easily argue that the shock and hydrenaline of emotions goku got as he saw Kuririn die was enough to push his power back to normal as base and then from then on push it to ssj.

They did train in their base form, but the purpose of them going into the HTC was to find forms that could go beyond the level of ssj because they wouldn't be strong enough in only a year to have a strong enough ssj to match cell, much less beat him. Training your base for then just to go ssj and pounce on cell is not easy (all in a year might I add), their ssj forms were weaker then 18 and 17. This is Akira-level writing, not super's . Power creeps dont happen after a few hours of training. loool. Once Goku saw his acended variations grades of ssj used a lot of energy consumpution and were slower, he saw the weakness in his own ssj form - and found it best to master the form so it could have no drain in stamnia when using it, and less energy loss. That's why goku ended up mastering ssj, not because it had anything to do with multipliers nor does this de-vaule the multiplyer of ssj. lol.

Except regular ssj goku never made berrus use 70% of his power, it was a ssj goku with power of ssj god - not regular ssj goku. Regular ssj goku would have gotten murked by berrus in the BoG film because even ssj3 couldn't lay a finger on berrus.

Those were some of the mis-leading/wrong things of your comment
But with that said...
SSj2 and ssj3 multiplyers are only by guide-book and not Akira's mouth as far as we know - so I take those multiplyers as more of an grain of salt.
Though I know why you made this post,
You're trying to in-directly defend toyotaro power scailing in the early parts of the trunks arc. Hahahah, my dude. We love toyotaro and his manga very much - at least some of us - But toyotaro Executed poorly on the power scailing in the beggining of the arc,
If base black is far and shoulders above full power ssj2 trunks and ssj3 goku, But yet vegeta as a mere ssj2 (even taking into acount vegeta using the same boost trunks did with his ssj2) taking on and having an edgy over ssj black makes sense? ... No. That's not defendable, it's bad power scailing. Simple as that.
However, you can cushion it by saying ssj3 goku and full power ssj2 trunks are only fodder to ssj black instead of base black, and then you insert the headcanon (pure headcanon it is) that vegeta "re-tained" the power of My bulma ssj2, you can kinda squeeze it through as permissible. It dosen't mean I didn't enjoy the fight, but bad power scailing does ruin the fight because it's hard to feel the tension if the writers can't create a belivable power scale and keeps consitent to it - hence a big reason why many don't like the anime of super because the power scailing was terrible - and that includes having unblieveable multiplyers.

Hopefully this made sense...

50 times base is not confirmed by Toriyama.

"Only, at the time, it was considered that his strength would increase 50-fold when he became a Super Saiyan, but that was a bit of an exaggeration. My feeling as the creator is that, while drawing it, I felt that it was about a 10-fold change from what it was up to that point."

1. Toriyama doesn't seem to care about the number himself.
2. He said that Goku's strength increased by 50 times, not that it will always increase by 50 times. Zenkai increased Vegeta's power by 1.33 times, but that doesn't mean it always increases your power by 1.33 times.

You also said that it's not easy to train base, but in 1 year Goku increased his base power by 20 times, and in 5 days he increased his base power by 12.5 times, so why would Goku struggle with increasing his base 2 times. If SS2 is only a 2 times multiplier, then he needs to increase his power by only a meager 2 times to compete with Cell.

[Jesus-is Lord]

In the fandom right now, there are a lot of debates about canon. Some people even consider the only canon continuation of Super the original manuscript that Toriyama sent to Toei and Toyotaro, and yet people act like the Super Saiyan multipliers from the Dragon Ball Super Exciting Guide are undeniable fact. Why is this?

The multipliers don't necessarily fit with the story, because on Namek Goku was exhausted, and it's likely that 50*Exhausted Goku < 100% Frieza. I also find it kind of weird to think that Goku trained and perfected his Super Saiyan form with Gohan in the HTC when he could have just trained his base form.

Multipliers also don't work in newer properties like the BoG movie. If Beerus was fighting base Goku and then Goku transformed into a Super Saiyan and forced him 70% of his power, then that means he was fighting him at 1.4% of his power. I didnt get the impression that impression from the film.

My final comment is simply, if you don't enjoy a fight scene because it doesn't fit with a guidebook from 2009, maybe you need to remember why you started loving the series in the first place. Nobody started liking Dragon Ball because of the numbers, and this is something I wholeheartedly believe.

You have a LOT of things wrong here, sir.

First of all, that "50x" multiplyer is an CONFIRMED and stated by akira toriyama. Now sometimes he may not write the story with that in mind, but it's objectivly 50x base. With that, we also know goku's power level first time as ssj is 150,000,000 while full power frieza was only 120,000,000. Therefore, ssj goku > frieza. Goku was I guess exhausted but it dosen't sem to matter because ssj was confirmed 50x base, and his base was 3 Million, now it's 150 million all confirmed by toriyama. And could easily argue that the shock and hydrenaline of emotions goku got as he saw Kuririn die was enough to push his power back to normal as base and then from then on push it to ssj.

They did train in their base form, but the purpose of them going into the HTC was to find forms that could go beyond the level of ssj because they wouldn't be strong enough in only a year to have a strong enough ssj to match cell, much less beat him. Training your base for then just to go ssj and pounce on cell is not easy (all in a year might I add), their ssj forms were weaker then 18 and 17. This is Akira-level writing, not super's . Power creeps dont happen after a few hours of training. loool. Once Goku saw his acended variations grades of ssj used a lot of energy consumpution and were slower, he saw the weakness in his own ssj form - and found it best to master the form so it could have no drain in stamnia when using it, and less energy loss. That's why goku ended up mastering ssj, not because it had anything to do with multipliers nor does this de-vaule the multiplyer of ssj. lol.

Except regular ssj goku never made berrus use 70% of his power, it was a ssj goku with power of ssj god - not regular ssj goku. Regular ssj goku would have gotten murked by berrus in the BoG film because even ssj3 couldn't lay a finger on berrus.

Those were some of the mis-leading/wrong things of your comment
But with that said...
SSj2 and ssj3 multiplyers are only by guide-book and not Akira's mouth as far as we know - so I take those multiplyers as more of an grain of salt.
Though I know why you made this post,
You're trying to in-directly defend toyotaro power scailing in the early parts of the trunks arc. Hahahah, my dude. We love toyotaro and his manga very much - at least some of us - But toyotaro Executed poorly on the power scailing in the beggining of the arc,
If base black is far and shoulders above full power ssj2 trunks and ssj3 goku, But yet vegeta as a mere ssj2 (even taking into acount vegeta using the same boost trunks did with his ssj2) taking on and having an edgy over ssj black makes sense? ... No. That's not defendable, it's bad power scailing. Simple as that.
However, you can cushion it by saying ssj3 goku and full power ssj2 trunks are only fodder to ssj black instead of base black, and then you insert the headcanon (pure headcanon it is) that vegeta "re-tained" the power of My bulma ssj2, you can kinda squeeze it through as permissible. It dosen't mean I didn't enjoy the fight, but bad power scailing does ruin the fight because it's hard to feel the tension if the writers can't create a belivable power scale and keeps consitent to it - hence a big reason why many don't like the anime of super because the power scailing was terrible - and that includes having unblieveable multiplyers.

Hopefully this made sense...

50 times base is not confirmed by Toriyama.

"Only, at the time, it was considered that his strength would increase 50-fold when he became a Super Saiyan, but that was a bit of an exaggeration. My feeling as the creator is that, while drawing it, I felt that it was about a 10-fold change from what it was up to that point."

1. Toriyama doesn't seem to care about the number himself.
2. He said that Goku's strength increased by 50 times, not that it will always increase by 50 times. Zenkai increased Vegeta's power by 1.33 times, but that doesn't mean it always increases your power by 1.33 times.

You also said that it's not easy to train base, but in 1 year Goku increased his base power by 20 times, and in 5 days he increased his base power by 12.5 times, so why would Goku struggle with increasing his base 2 times. If SS2 is only a 2 times multiplier, then he needs to increase his power by only a meager 2 times to compete with Cell.

Yeah you're maybe right. Though he made it ambigous, he basically said that 50x was "maybe" an "exageration" and he feels like he writes it as an 10x(so he didn't confirm it). In the anime, those guides are FACT. Zamsu says goku got 100x stronger in ssj2.
In the manga, it don't remember toyotaro giving strict multiplyers about ssj - though if you ask him I'm sure he keeps it at 50x.

I don't know where you got that "2x" rationale from, first of all it was never confirmed and stated by akira what multiplyer ssj2 is - 2nd, even then. That's assuming his ssj form was only 2x weaker then cell enetering INTO the chamber. It was like 10x+ plus weaker. So it's not as simple as "increae your base 2x and bam you're as strong as cell".

2nd, stop being -mis-leading. First of all, he increased it that high because that was the first time his body was introduced to 10x gravity plus he trained with a god. Those vast imrpovement in training regiments will temporarily boost your gain to signifacant heights, and the 2nd: Actually it was 11.25x he increased his power, and that's because he A. Got a signifcant zenkai boost and then trained in the gravity room and other equipment from bulma. Those type of new special training regiments will at first make you grow in power exponentially but after awhille once you grow above it - it wont have that effect anymore and slowly decrease. Even then, goku made SIGNIFACANT gains in the HTC so I don't understand what you're even getting at here? Point is, ssj is 50x base which even akira acklwoedged. Is it always written like that or showcased perfectly...probably not. But that dosen't mean it should be made irrevlant - no matter what - this still dosen't excuse toyotaro for his poor power scailing in the beggining of the trunks arc.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

They matter to many people, and don't matter to many others. Honestly, I can't definitively say where I fit

In the fandom right now, there are a lot of debates about canon. Some people even consider the only canon continuation of Super the original manuscript that Toriyama sent to Toei and Toyotaro, and yet people act like the Super Saiyan multipliers from the Dragon Ball Super Exciting Guide are undeniable fact. Why is this?

Ah, the hypocrisy of some in the fandom. Reminds me of those fans who feel as if the original Dragon Ball manga is this flawless or near flawless story, a narrative with little to no faults or inexplicable occurrences, and are willing to completely overlook such instances in the manga yet are also willing to rip apart anything else that do have these occurrences (that's not to say things like Super and GT aren't shitty continuations, but come now, the manga isn't that perfect or near-perfect). I can't really explain it myself, to tell you the truth.

The multipliers don't necessarily fit with the story, because on Namek Goku was exhausted, and it's likely that 50*Exhausted Goku < 100% Frieza. I also find it kind of weird to think that Goku trained and perfected his Super Saiyan form with Gohan in the HTC when he could have just trained his base form.

Multipliers also don't work in newer properties like the BoG movie. If Beerus was fighting base Goku and then Goku transformed into a Super Saiyan and forced him 70% of his power, then that means he was fighting him at 1.4% of his power. I didnt get the impression that impression from the film.

This is wholeheartedly agree with. Let's just be honest here, after a while in the manga and its continuations, Super Saiyan didn't feel like a transformation that was 50 times stronger. It's obvious this was in place because of Kaioken x20. And then you have Super Saiyan 2, a transformation first utilized by Gohan that completely wrecked Cell and appeared to be miles ahead of the SS 2nd, 3rd and 4th grades... and it's only stronger than Super Saiyan by a meager factor of two. To me, SS's multiplier was too high, and SS2's was too low.

To go a wee bit off-topic, from the multipliers of the Combined Power List (bottom of the page), you have confusing things like Kaioken and Kaioken x2 basically having the same effect, doubling the user's power and speed, and then you have the Potara fusion... which is X’s battle power times Y’s battle power. This statement regarding the power of a Potara fusion is ridiculous, even more so than the Super Saiyan's multiplier, because while Kefla being able to push Goku to Ultra Instinct makes sense now, what doesn't is this: why did Vegetto even bother going Super Saiyan against Buuhan? Buuhan shouldn't have been able to even touch Vegetto. I'm someone who has very little interest in taking part of a full-fledged power level discussion, but even I'll point out that's as inconsistent as power scaling goes right there.

It's stuff like this and many more examples that make me just not take even these official statements regarding power multipliers all that seriously anymore. It's not as if these multipliers were ever explicitly stated to come from the mind and mouth of Toriyama himself. And even if they did, it still feels like an exaggeration of some sort, which Toriyama himself acknowledged about the Super Saiyan multiplier.

My final comment is simply, if you don't enjoy a fight scene because it doesn't fit with a guidebook from 2009, maybe you need to remember why you started loving the series in the first place. Nobody started liking Dragon Ball because of the numbers, and this is something I wholeheartedly believe.

While I agree, I will say you never really know. There are many who have had weird introductions to this series. I do believe things would have been way better off if such numerical measurements of power in terms of multipliers were either introduced in a way that makes more sense or just never, ever introduced to begin with (I think the latter would have been much better direction by the way).

[Desassina]

The only thing that doesn't matter about multipliers, hence why the need to avoid calling them by that, is their fixed nature or amount over the previous state. Super Saiyan Blue went up to 100% through completion and below 10% against Hit, Super Saiyan 2 did not revert to its previous form when Gohan's power was less than half against Cell, Goku went up to half of his full power in front of Korin and lost SSJ3 all the way to base in the face of Majin Boo. As you can see, the Super Saiyan forms are merely transformations, states or mutations that act upon their whole power, increasing or decreasing a few stats (such as strength and agility or energy consumption), to help us know that they're performing better relative to a scene.

If the characters wanted to go without transforming until their full power, then they would and could since that is the basis for SSJB (reach the level of a God in their regular looking form), otherwise they will limit themselves by ascending with a hindrance from the lower realm. In the latest manga chapters, Kale took on a powerful form, because she got stronger without ever releasing her power, partially due to her following Caulifla's lead, and the end result was lack of control. I think that Broly will be the same, but with more control, in case SSJ precedes the green one. The process of learning how to use Super Saiyan was what allowed Goku and Vegeta to tap into their inner strength at the level of Gods anyway.

[Saturnine]

What's SeG?

The Super Exciting Guide, released in 2009.

[shadowfox87]

Well, it's the same question as if anything matters at all in the Dragon Ball franchise. The 50x multiplier is not just from SEG but is also something one can calculate by the given power levels from the Freeza saga as Goku goes from 3 million to 50 million. It's stated more than once in other books.

Later, we see that people train their SSJ forms to reach higher grades. Vegeta used the ASSJ form but that also consumes some stamina. Grade 3 has increased muscle mass which impedes movements. Thus, it was realized that the first grade of Super Saiyan already has the best balance. So the question is - why didn't Goku just train his base then? The reason is to maintain SSJ for stamina issues. This is why Goku and Gohan tried to stay in SSJ while relaxed, taking a shower, etc. This was all part of training and learning to maintain the form. SSJ3 for example, consumes significant amounts of stamina. Goku could barely maintain SSJ3 and in the Buu saga, he couldn't even transform into it after a while because he was depleted of energy. Goku and Vegeta, then did later train their base with Whis in DBS. Whis even said that they are smart for realizing that they should be in their base to train.

So yes, the multipliers do make sense as long as you acknowledge that there are higher grades of each transformation with higher multipliers but the first initial transformation will still use the original multipliers.

[Bergamo]

Well, it's the same question as if anything matters at all in the Dragon Ball franchise. The 50x multiplier is not just from SEG but is also something one can calculate by the given power levels from the Freeza saga as Goku goes from 3 million to 50 million. It's stated more than once in other books.

Later, we see that people train their SSJ forms to reach higher grades. Vegeta used the ASSJ form but that also consumes some stamina. Grade 3 has increased muscle mass which impedes movements. Thus, it was realized that the first grade of Super Saiyan already has the best balance. So the question is - why didn't Goku just train his base then? The reason is to maintain SSJ for stamina issues. This is why Goku and Gohan tried to stay in SSJ while relaxed, taking a shower, etc. This was all part of training and learning to maintain the form. SSJ3 for example, consumes significant amounts of stamina. Goku could barely maintain SSJ3 and in the Buu saga, he couldn't even transform into it after a while because he was depleted of energy. Goku and Vegeta, then did later train their base with Whis in DBS. Whis even said that they are smart for realizing that they should be in their base to train.

So yes, the multipliers do make sense as long as you acknowledge that there are higher grades of each transformation with higher multipliers but the first initial transformation will still use the original multipliers.

If you do the math you would actually find that Goku's multiplier was closer to 40 times, because SS Goku and 100% Frieza were equal until Frieza started losing energy. If you consider that Goku was fatigued before transforming, then the multiplier could be well over 100 times.

[Tectorman]

But with that said...
SSj2 and ssj3 multiplyers are only by guide-book and not Akira's mouth as far as we know - so I take those multiplyers as more of an grain of salt.
Though I know why you made this post,
You're trying to in-directly defend toyotaro power scailing in the early parts of the trunks arc. Hahahah, my dude. We love toyotaro and his manga very much - at least some of us - But toyotaro Executed poorly on the power scailing in the beggining of the arc,
If base black is far and shoulders above full power ssj2 trunks and ssj3 goku, But yet vegeta as a mere ssj2 (even taking into acount vegeta using the same boost trunks did with his ssj2) taking on and having an edgy over ssj black makes sense? ... No. That's not defendable, it's bad power scailing. Simple as that.
However, you can cushion it by saying ssj3 goku and full power ssj2 trunks are only fodder to ssj black instead of base black, and then you insert the headcanon (pure headcanon it is) that vegeta "re-tained" the power of My bulma ssj2, you can kinda squeeze it through as permissible. It dosen't mean I didn't enjoy the fight, but bad power scailing does ruin the fight because it's hard to feel the tension if the writers can't create a belivable power scale and keeps consitent to it - hence a big reason why many don't like the anime of super because the power scailing was terrible - and that includes having unblieveable multiplyers.

Hopefully this made sense...

I didn't think the power scaling of that part of the manga was that off. Yes, Goku Black in Base was above Improved SSJ2 Trunks and SSJ3 Goku. So was SbG Goku towards the end of his fight with Beerus. Ergo, Goku Black wasn't in Base, but rather Saiyan Beyond God. The only real issue I found was that it required the introduction of Super Saiyan 2 Beyond God (for Goku Black to not outright die fighting SSB Vegeta, and for Vegeta to be at the same level as SSJ Goku Black (or rather, SSBG Goku Black) when even his "MY BULMA" wouldn't have been close) when BoG had only thus far shown us Super Saiyan Beyond God, but at least it has more precedent behind it than anime Trunks's Super Saiyan Rage.

One thing I'm finding is that the scaling in Super has less issues if you consider power level separate from effectiveness. I.e., anime Hit never powered up against Goku and yet showed the same or similar enough resilience against Goku's hits whether Goku was using Base (or SbG), SSB, or SSBKKx10). Goku got ten times stronger with the Kaioken, but his effectiveness only went up marginally. In BoG, Goku went from SbG against Beerus to SSbG (a x50 increase), yet his effectiveness didn't change all that much. I think Shadowfox87 has a link to his thread which explains it much better.

[shadowfox87]

If you do the math you would actually find that Goku's multiplier was closer to 40 times, because SS Goku and 100% Frieza were equal until Frieza started losing energy. If you consider that Goku was fatigued before transforming, then the multiplier could be well over 100 times.

Freeza's power level at 100% is 120 million. SSJ Goku is 150 million.
3 million x 40 = 120 million
3 million x 50 = 150 million

So no, it's not 40, it's 50.

[Bergamo]

If you do the math you would actually find that Goku's multiplier was closer to 40 times, because SS Goku and 100% Frieza were equal until Frieza started losing energy. If you consider that Goku was fatigued before transforming, then the multiplier could be well over 100 times.

Freeza's power level at 100% is 120 million. SSJ Goku is 150 million.
3 million x 40 = 120 million
3 million x 50 = 150 million

So no, it's not 40, it's 50.

Frieza was equal to Goku as shown in the manga. The events shown in the manga ALWAYS supercede guidebooks.

[shadowfox87]

Frieza was equal to Goku as shown in the manga. The events shown in the manga ALWAYS supercede guidebooks.

Since when was Freeza = SSJ Goku? This was never explicitly stated in the manga at all. SSJ Goku fought Freeza at full strength, after which Freeza after some point, was running out of energy. Goku then says that this fight is over and flies off because Freeza's ki was continuing to go down. This clearly shows that they are not equal. After Goku flies off, Freeza throws a red kienzan at him.

Source: Chapter 325, DBZ manga

When all seems lost, Goku’s anger reaches the breaking point as Freeza kills Kuririn, and he transforms into a Super Saiyan. As a Super Saiyan, Goku overwhelm Freeza. Freeza then proclaims that he’ll finally use his full power to fight Super Saiyan Goku, and he starts off by knocking Goku away with a blast he says was about 70% of his full power. After slowing powering up, passing through 85% of his full power and then 90%, Freeza finally reaches 100%. However, after a long battle Super Saiyan Goku manages to utterly defeat Freeza, and the battle ends.

If you add all those various percentages and multipliers from volumes 26 and 27 up, and go back to second-form Freeza stating that he had a battle power of over 1 million, you get this: regular Goku must be much more than 1 million, Kaiō-Ken x10 and x20 Goku must be at much more than 10 and 20 million, 100% full power Freeza must be much more than 40 million, and Super Saiyan Goku must be stronger than even that, putting him at over 40 times his regular battle power. We’ll revisit all this mess for Daizenshuu 7’s listed battle powers for the various forms of Goku and Freeza during their battle.

Source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/manga/

This is consistent with what I said, 50 is over 40. All of this is derived only from the manga.

[Kaboom]

The official multipliers are still a thing, and while the folks in charge don't go to great lengths to spotlight them or write the story around them, they do still subtly acknowledge them on occasion. I know there's been a few offhand mentions in DBS, at least one where Goku went SS2 and was said to have become "dozens of times stronger" or something like that. So they're still a factor, just a relatively passive one.

[Bergamo]

Frieza was equal to Goku as shown in the manga. The events shown in the manga ALWAYS supercede guidebooks.

Since when was Freeza = SSJ Goku? This was never explicitly stated in the manga at all. SSJ Goku fought Freeza at full strength, after which Freeza after some point, was running out of energy. Goku then says that this fight is over and flies off because Freeza's ki was continuing to go down. This clearly shows that they are not equal. After Goku flies off, Freeza throws a red kienzan at him.

Source: Chapter 325, DBZ manga

When all seems lost, Goku’s anger reaches the breaking point as Freeza kills Kuririn, and he transforms into a Super Saiyan. As a Super Saiyan, Goku overwhelm Freeza. Freeza then proclaims that he’ll finally use his full power to fight Super Saiyan Goku, and he starts off by knocking Goku away with a blast he says was about 70% of his full power. After slowing powering up, passing through 85% of his full power and then 90%, Freeza finally reaches 100%. However, after a long battle Super Saiyan Goku manages to utterly defeat Freeza, and the battle ends.

If you add all those various percentages and multipliers from volumes 26 and 27 up, and go back to second-form Freeza stating that he had a battle power of over 1 million, you get this: regular Goku must be much more than 1 million, Kaiō-Ken x10 and x20 Goku must be at much more than 10 and 20 million, 100% full power Freeza must be much more than 40 million, and Super Saiyan Goku must be stronger than even that, putting him at over 40 times his regular battle power. We’ll revisit all this mess for Daizenshuu 7’s listed battle powers for the various forms of Goku and Freeza during their battle.

Source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/manga/

This is consistent with what I said, 50 is over 40. All of this is derived only from the manga.

Goku = Frieza before Frieza runs out of stamina.

[shadowfox87]

Goku = Frieza before Frieza runs out of stamina.

In that case, you might as well say that MUI Goku = Jiren before Jiren runs out of stamina. Observations from a fight are subjective and open to interpretation. What's objective is when we are given numbers. If you want to ignore those numbers, that is your choice, but there's no reason not to when it is consistent with the observations.

[Bergamo]

Goku = Frieza before Frieza runs out of stamina.

In that case, you might as well say that MUI Goku = Jiren before Jiren runs out of stamina. Observations from a fight are subjective and open to interpretation. What's objective is when we are given numbers. If you want to ignore those numbers, that is your choice, but there's no reason not to when it is consistent with the observations.

Jiren was never stated to have run out of stamina. That's not a good comparison at all.