If Super came out in Japan in the early 2000's like around 2005...would the impact have been different?

[precita]

So as we know the early 2000's is when Dragonball had a bit of a revival in terms of videogames and merch in both Japan and the dub was at the height of its popularity.

What if Super came out around 2005 in Japan instead of 2015? Literally 10 years earlier? It still would have been 8 years after GT ended in 1997 so Japan would have had plenty of time to cool off of the franchise. And let's assume Super's arcs/stories/writing etc. is exactly the same as it is now.

Do you think it would have made a bigger impact if it came out in 2005? It would have been far closer to Dragonball's heydey and the dub would have continued directly into it as soon as they finished the Buu saga and the redubs of the first two arcs, FUNimation and CN would have kept the gravy train flowing.

In Japan all the voice actors would have been much younger obviously and we wouldn't have to deal with so many passing away (like Bulma, Mr. Satan 2, etc.)

[Mister_Popo]

So as we know the early 2000's is when Dragonball had a bit of a revival in terms of videogames and merch in both Japan and the dub was at the height of its popularity.

What if Super came out around 2005 in Japan instead of 2015? Literally 10 years earlier? It still would have been 8 years after GT ended in 1997 so Japan would have had plenty of time to cool off of the franchise. And let's assume Super's arcs/stories/writing etc. is exactly the same as it is now.

Do you think it would have made a bigger impact if it came out in 2005? It would have been far closer to Dragonball's heydey and the dub would have continued directly into it as soon as they finished the Buu saga and the redubs of the first two arcs, FUNimation and CN would have kept the gravy train flowing.

In Japan all the voice actors would have been much younger obviously and we wouldn't have to deal with so many passing away (like Bulma, Mr. Satan 2, etc.)

I think the impact would have been less in the beginning of the 2000s:

- It was less than a decade since TOEI had to cancel the show because the popularity had dried out. I don't think they would have made the big investment in 2005. It could have been too soon.
Since 2005 Kai, the Funi-dubs, the 2008 special and later on the BOG / ROF-movies were the first real signs that showed it had regained it's popularity. The success of the movies were the decisive reasons to make Super in the first place.
- In 2018 a new potential audience (2000s generation) has matured enough to discover the show.
- The big difference between 2005 and now is that it's more easily accessable world wide, which makes a massive difference. There generally is a much bigger market available to sell the product.
- DBS now is able to get a lot more free publicity through social media and online communities, which wasn't nearly as evolved in 2005 as it is now.
- The marketing strategies to brand the whole franchise are much more studied and evolved in comparison to 13 years ago.
- DB merchandising keeps expanding to make more money out of the franchise and sustain the investments.
- Toriyama was basically burn-out in 1995. Beginning 2000's it probably would have been too soon for him to make a real comeback on the DB-stage. I do think his re-involvement with the brand has contributed to the success of the renewed era since BOG. His name is a ticket-seller, but he still has some descent stories to tell as well.

[emperior]

So as we know the early 2000's is when Dragonball had a bit of a revival in terms of videogames and merch in both Japan and the dub was at the height of its popularity.

What if Super came out around 2005 in Japan instead of 2015? Literally 10 years earlier? It still would have been 8 years after GT ended in 1997 so Japan would have had plenty of time to cool off of the franchise. And let's assume Super's arcs/stories/writing etc. is exactly the same as it is now.

Do you think it would have made a bigger impact if it came out in 2005? It would have been far closer to Dragonball's heydey and the dub would have continued directly into it as soon as they finished the Buu saga and the redubs of the first two arcs, FUNimation and CN would have kept the gravy train flowing.

In Japan all the voice actors would have been much younger obviously and we wouldn't have to deal with so many passing away (like Bulma, Mr. Satan 2, etc.)

I think the impact would have been less in the beginning of the 2000s:

- It was less than a decade since TOEI had to cancel the show because the popularity had dried out. I don't think they would have made the big investment in 2005. It could have been too soon.
Since 2005 Kai, the Funi-dubs, the 2008 special and later on the BOG / ROF-movies were the first real signs that showed it had regained it's popularity. The success of the movies were the decisive reasons to make Super in the first place.
- In 2018 a new potential audience (2000s generation) has matured enough to discover the show.
- The big difference between 2005 and now is that it's more easily accessable world wide, which makes a massive difference. There generally is a much bigger market available to sell the product.
- DBS now is able to get a lot more free publicity through social media and online communities, which wasn't nearly as evolved in 2005 as it is now.
- The marketing strategies to brand the whole franchise are much more studied and evolved in comparison to 13 years ago.
- DB merchandising keeps expanding to make more money out of the franchise and sustain the investments.
- Toriyama was basically burn-out in 1995. Beginning 2000's it probably would have been too soon for him to make a real comeback on the DB-stage. I do think his re-involvement with the brand has contributed to the success of the renewed era since BOG. His name is a ticket-seller, but he still has some descent stories to tell as well.

Couldn’t have said it any better. Kai also played a part in making a new generation interested in DB in some countries.

[PFM18]

The reception would be better in 05' than now because now people are way more whiny and pessimistic than they were 10-15 years ago. They look at a show that is animated by the same studio, and written by the same writer, and they act as though it is magnitudes worse in quality than the original series. Nothing had changed, Toei still animates it and Toriyama still writes it, but it somehow become horrendously bad, according to the pessimists of 2018. People's bias towards negativity in modern society shines bright in the reception of modern Dragon Ball.

[Chuquita]

2005? YouTube came out that year, but I don't remember if I had high speed internet yet; and while I would've had the time and the passion, I wouldn't have had a smart phone or my current-day skill level when it comes to drawing fan art.

I can definitely say that the weekly simulcast-ish stuff a lot of us did with Super wouldn't have happened.

[majinwarman]

2005? YouTube came out that year, but I don't remember if I had high speed internet yet; and while I would've had the time and the passion, I wouldn't have had a smart phone or my current-day skill level when it comes to drawing fan art.

I can definitely say that the weekly simulcast-ish stuff a lot of us did with Super wouldn't have happened.

The Internet wasn't big back then so it wouldn't be as popular as it is today. Plus, weekly simulcast started in 2009ish.

[sintzu]

Nothing had changed, Toei still animates it and Toriyama still writes it, but it somehow become horrendously bad, according to the pessimists of 2018.

I don't want to turn this into modern vs old DB but factually speaking, things have drastically changed from back then. For starters, the methods of animating, production and what's acceptable for kids have changed. The target audience of the original was mainly the Japanese audiences while now DB is a global phenomenon. The people writing it today aren't the same people they were 20 years ago so as they've changed, so has their writing. Due to it being so long since the original, you've got a lot of new people coming on board to work on it, bringing with them different styles to the franchise. The original was written by one person, Toriyama, while now multiple writers have a say in things, including company high ups. The reason DB is made has also changed as the original was made to sell a story, the manga, while the current one is made to sell merchandise. Although they're both DB, they're different types of DB but whether or not that's a good thing is completely up to you.

[ekrolo2]

Nothing had changed, Toei still animates it and Toriyama still writes it, but it somehow become horrendously bad, according to the pessimists of 2018.

I don't want to turn this into modern vs old DB but factually speaking, things have drastically changed from back then. For starters, the methods of animating, production and what's acceptable for kids have changed. The target audience of the original was mainly the Japanese audiences while now DB is a global phenomenon. The people writing it today aren't the same people they were 20 years ago so as they've changed, so has their writing. Due to it being so long since the original, you've got a lot of new people coming on board to work on it, bringing with them different styles to the franchise. The original was written by one person, Toriyama, while now multiple writers have a say in things, including company high ups. The reason DB is made has also changed as the original was made to sell a story, the manga, while the current one is made to sell merchandise. Although they're both DB, they're different types of DB but whether or not that's a good thing is completely up to you.

Agreed, even a cursory glance at the info pertaining to how modern DB is done vs the original run shows how different things are.

Which is not by default bad, Toriyama made a good case for why DB should've ended sooner with the Cell and Boo arcs and he along with others, keep it chugging along past the point of acceptability.

[sintzu]

Toriyama made a good case for why DB should've ended sooner with the Cell and Boo arcs and he along with others, keep it chugging along past the point of acceptability.

Despite always wanting more DB, I've always respected Toriyama for ending it on a high note rather than dragging it into the ground like other franchises, Bleach being an example when it comes to manga. I've enjoyed modern DB for what it is but they need to make some serious changes if the franchise is to keep its integrity. It looks like steps have been made on the production side by changing the look of things through Shintani (the new artist) but they need to get new blood into the writing department.

[Simere]

I think it wouldn't be as well received. We wouldn't have been as starved for DB back then, and so would be more discerning in our tastes.

I've been whining on the internet since before 2005 and I don't think it's all that different now from then. More people unable to spot trolls is all.

[Chuquita]

2005? YouTube came out that year, but I don't remember if I had high speed internet yet; and while I would've had the time and the passion, I wouldn't have had a smart phone or my current-day skill level when it comes to drawing fan art.

I can definitely say that the weekly simulcast-ish stuff a lot of us did with Super wouldn't have happened.

The Internet wasn't big back then so it wouldn't be as popular as it is today. Plus, weekly simulcast started in 2009ish.

That's true. The earliest I recall watching anime online had to be kyoani stuff circa 06 or 07; none of which was live. That's probably when I first got high speed internet.

Actually I may have seen some of the second half of Fresh Precure live, but that would've been it.

Smart phones are a big deciding factor. They just didn't exist back then in that kind of capacity they do now. I'm typing this from my smart phone. I remember having to be tethered to a pc or laptop to go on Kanzenshuu's then daizex forums.

[Green_Goblin]

We probably had gotten a "Shin Budokai - Another Road" Saga at the very least, look at the previous decade: It's when and where characters like Pikkon and Janemba were so beloved that they've got opportunities to shine, also GT wasn't as hated as it is in this decade - in case you remember/was a fan back in 2003-2005 people around the globe were waiting to get their local dubbed version of GT and waited for the "Dragon Ball GT: Transformations" to come out like crazy!

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Nothing had changed, Toei still animates it and Toriyama still writes it, but it somehow become horrendously bad, according to the pessimists of 2018.

I don't want to turn this into modern vs old DB but factually speaking, things have drastically changed from back then. For starters, the methods of animating, production and what's acceptable for kids have changed. The target audience of the original was mainly the Japanese audiences while now DB is a global phenomenon. The people writing it today aren't the same people they were 20 years ago so as they've changed, so has their writing. Due to it being so long since the original, you've got a lot of new people coming on board to work on it, bringing with them different styles to the franchise. The original was written by one person, Toriyama, while now multiple writers have a say in things, including company high ups. The reason DB is made has also changed as the original was made to sell a story, the manga, while the current one is made to sell merchandise. Although they're both DB, they're different types of DB but whether or not that's a good thing is completely up to you.

It's taken modern DB 5 years to the point it's getting merchandise treatment similar to One Piece, a still on going manga as we all know. Battle of Gods didn't get merched until 2014. Dragon Ball Super didn't get proper merchandising until 2017 (The same time when Shintai did the rough art for the Goku key visual).

It's pretty evident modern DB wasn't made to sell merchandise. That has been the by product. I'd probably say a good 80% of DBS has been left unmerchandised.

The reason DB is back is because they have stories to tell and DBS being off the air because they feel it's better to continue the next part of the story in a movie is evidence of that otherwise DBS would still be chugging along on TV if all they were interested in was selling merchandise.

[sintzu]

It's pretty evident modern DB wasn't made to sell merchandise. The reason DB is back is because they have stories to tell.

From what I understand about how anime works in Japan (you can ask someone like Herms about this cause I may be wrong), anime that are made based on a running manga are made to sell the manga so if the manga sells good enough, the anime will continue. Anime that are made without a manga such as Super and even Kai are made to sell merchandise so if Bandai's numbers are high (which they are), the anime continues but if they're not (like what happened with kai), the anime gets cancelled. Bandai may not be making everything based on Super but Super is still moving merchandise and that's all that counts for them.

[majinwarman]

2005? YouTube came out that year, but I don't remember if I had high speed internet yet; and while I would've had the time and the passion, I wouldn't have had a smart phone or my current-day skill level when it comes to drawing fan art.

I can definitely say that the weekly simulcast-ish stuff a lot of us did with Super wouldn't have happened.

The Internet wasn't big back then so it wouldn't be as popular as it is today. Plus, weekly simulcast started in 2009ish.

That's true. The earliest I recall watching anime online had to be kyoani stuff circa 06 or 07; none of which was live. That's probably when I first got high speed internet.

Actually I may have seen some of the second half of Fresh Precure live, but that would've been it.

Smart phones are a big deciding factor. They just didn't exist back then in that kind of capacity they do now. I'm typing this from my smart phone. I remember having to be tethered to a pc or laptop to go on Kanzenshuu's then daizex forums.

Plus, most anime I have watched from that time was from tapes given to me from my older family members.

[supersaiyanZero]

So as we know the early 2000's is when Dragonball had a bit of a revival in terms of videogames and merch in both Japan and the dub was at the height of its popularity.

What if Super came out around 2005 in Japan instead of 2015? Literally 10 years earlier? It still would have been 8 years after GT ended in 1997 so Japan would have had plenty of time to cool off of the franchise. And let's assume Super's arcs/stories/writing etc. is exactly the same as it is now.

Do you think it would have made a bigger impact if it came out in 2005?

The state of the anime industry wasn't in such a big decline as it is now, so it might have fared even worse because the show is garbage and only barely passable because the quality of anime today just isn't the same.

[JohnnyCashKami]

The animation would have been vastly better and its score would've been composed (or better worded, remixed) by Kenji Yamamoto. I'd say, that could have ended up being a far superior product than what we got.

I don't loathe DBS since there are a few things I appreciate but even moreso it paved the way for an awesome new Dragon Ball movie.

The reception would be better in 05' than now because now people are way more whiny and pessimistic than they were 10-15 years ago. They look at a show that is animated by the same studio, and written by the same writer, and they act as though it is magnitudes worse in quality than the original series. Nothing had changed, Toei still animates it and Toriyama still writes it, but it somehow become horrendously bad, according to the pessimists of 2018. People's bias towards negativity in modern society shines bright in the reception of modern Dragon Ball.

Dude, you can't expect people to say they liked a product when they hated it. It's not about being whiny or pessimistic but having a personal opinion. I get you love Super but you still need to respect their opinions even if you don't agree with.

[Bergamo]

The reception would be better in 05' than now because now people are way more whiny and pessimistic than they were 10-15 years ago. They look at a show that is animated by the same studio, and written by the same writer, and they act as though it is magnitudes worse in quality than the original series. Nothing had changed, Toei still animates it and Toriyama still writes it, but it somehow become horrendously bad, according to the pessimists of 2018. People's bias towards negativity in modern society shines bright in the reception of modern Dragon Ball.

The DBS Manga is written by Toriyama just like the anime. The draft for each chapter is personally checked by Toriyama, and there have been instances where the manga has been shown to be closer to Toriyama's vision. Yet you complain about it and call it garbage. Hypocritical much?

[Doctor.]

They look at a show that is animated by the same studio, and written by the same writer, and they act as though it is magnitudes worse in quality than the original series.

Are you saying this never happened before? Are you implying that everything an artist produces is around the same level of quality? Because that's incredibly obtuse thinking.

As for the reception, it would have failed just lile GT did, especially if Super launched in the same abysmal state as it did. Lack of a DB drought would mean people would lack rose-tinted glasses to tolerate bullshit.

[PFM18]

I posted this 3 weeks ago and only now I have a bunch of people replying it.....

Dude, you can't expect people to say they liked a product when they hated it. It's not about being whiny or pessimistic but having a personal opinion. I get you love Super but you still need to respect their opinions even if you don't agree with.

I don't expect people to say they liked something if they didn't. I respect people's opinions and you should respect mine. My opinion is that much of the poor reception is a direct result of how prevalent pessimists and general negative thinking is in modern society. Had it aired in the early 2000's I feel like it would have had a more positve reception.

The DBS Manga is written by Toriyama just like the anime. The draft for each chapter is personally checked by Toriyama, and there have been instances where the manga has been shown to be closer to Toriyama's vision. Yet you complain about it and call it garbage. Hypocritical much?

That's a fair point. I understand where you are coming from here, but I was more so comparing it to the production of DBZ and I feel like the DBS anime's process is more similar to DBZ than the DBS manga is to the original manga. In the original manga, there was just Toriyama doing everything whether it be drawing it or writing it. The current manga's over-arching story is by AT and Toyotaro draws it and fills in the blanks. In the DBS anime there is that extra layer of constants there because Toei animations is the other party involved other than Toriyama just as it was when DBZ was being introduced. That being said, I don't think the DBS manga is really THAT bad. I can get frustrated sometimes and there's some hyperbole in the way that I discuss it.

I just find it very hard to believe that there's an objectively large gap in quality. I just don't think that the quality is the biggest variable that has changed since DBZ has aired. I think the biggest difference in the reception is that now people re seeing it for the first time as an adult and not as a child, people are generally more pessimistic now than then, and people are biased towards the original work and just put it on a pedestal. I am baffled how you can watch both DBS and DBZ and love one and call the other garbage. But again, that is just the way I see it.