Toyotaro needs to be let go/fired

[AnimeNation101]

You are aware that Toyotaro gets direct feedback and approval on his drafts from Toriyama, right? He's not just some renegade writer doing whatever he wants.

If you just don't like the direction or details of how both of them are handling the manga's story, fine, but Toyotaro's committed no narrative sins worth being fired for.

This. Some people probably think Toyo is doing this all on his own while the reality is that Toriyama approves every chapter that comes out.

If some of you don't like it, there is a lot of fan manga out there or just don't read it. It's pretty simple.

Thats a piss poor answer. “If you don’t like it, stop watching or reading it”.

No. Most of the time, the reason we complain is because we care about the subject which the complaint spawns from. In this case, the DBS manga. We complain or criticize stuff that it does badly because we want it to improve. While i think firing someone is extreme (but replacing him is ay-okay with me), it’s annoying that people tell others to stop watching or reading something when in response to someone’s complaints when that someone is complaining because something they care about is of poor quality.

Also, just because Toriyama approves Toyotaro’s writing doesn’t make it any less worse than it already is. Toyotaro’s writing is still a problem and Toriyama either just isn’t being strict or he finds it amusing as we all know that Toriyama loves to troll his fans. And we know that he’s not nearly as strict as his own editors were.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Before any whiny person thinks this is ridiculous or some mod comes in here saying "dont promote this here". In all jobs when things are not going well. You are allowed to finish things out and they find someone new. Toyotaro has the artist skills to draw. But he does not have a clue on what hes doing story wise. He is not a writer. Nor is he a guy who can stay consistent or have a mind to understand what he does and how it affects the fans and the past stories of the series. It needs to stop. Toriyama had a different person do the manga for Son Goku and friends return. Give that person a shot. Or demote Toyotaro and have someone like Toshio who writes for the anime be the writer for the manga and Toyotaro just illustrates it with art.

Can you elaborate what exactly has Toyotaro done wrong that deserves being fired?

[Bergamo]

The cons in Toyotaro's manga outweigh the cons in Toei's anime adaptation. There hasn't been a single enjoyable arc, for me. His art style is also painfully mediocre in comparison to even Toriyama's more "lazily" depicted style towards the end of the original serialization. He lacks creativity and the story suffers because of it.

I would fear for the future of this franchise if Dragon Ball wasn't a mass medium run by multiple people now.

"Lacks creativity"

-Brings back Kaioken.
-Brings back the spirit bomb.
-Has Roshi use the mafuba 3 times.
-Completely original

[Marlowe89]

Before any whiny person thinks this is ridiculous or some mod comes in here saying "dont promote this here".

Pre-emptively trying to "inb4" anyone who'd comment on the absurdity of this argument isn't a good tactic precisely because it acknowledges the absurdity of this argument.

And man, let me be the first to tell you that "Toyotaro is bad, mkay?" isn't a compelling point. You need to elaborate why his writing is bad, otherwise there's no discussion worth having here, buddy.

[kudo6000]

-Brings back Kaioken.
-Brings back the spirit bomb.

Fail to see what's wrong with that. Goku adding Kaioken above his Blue form is much better than just reverting back into SSG.

-Has Roshi use the mafuba 3 times.

Yes, and? Roshi has experience with that technique.

[Bergamo]

-Brings back Kaioken.
-Brings back the spirit bomb.

Fail to see what's wrong with that. Goku adding Kaioken above his Blue form is much better than just reverting back into SSG.

-Has Roshi use the mafuba 3 times.

Yes, and? Roshi has experience with that technique.

1. So bringing back a technique from early Z is more creative than actually using concepts developed in Super. Interesting.
2. Just because there is an iconic moment with a character using a technique doesn't mean it's good to just have them spam it. It wasn't good the 99th time Yien used the Tribeam, and it won't be good the 100th time. Master Roshi spamming mafuba is the same thing.

-Recreating the final flash against Cell
-Recreating the final explosion
-Recreating Frieza getting hit with the spirit bomb
-Vegeta spamming FF
-Vegeta's most important fight being a big yellow ball vs a big purple ball

[Rakurai]

Holy crap. I cannot believe what I am reading.

When the fandom demands that a mangaka be fired for a chapter they haven't even READ in a language comprehensible by said fandom, this is truly as bottom and embarrassing as the fandom gets.

When the fandom thinks that Toyo wrote Master Roshi with "UI" like he was doing it for shits and giggles, or to ruin his own manga and his mentor's legacy instead of telling a story about a teacher reminding his student of something more than just 'muhpowerscaling,' this is truly as shameful as I can get to be considered a part of this fandom.

If anything, Toyo doesn't deserve his audience since their knee-jerk reaction stupidity is over 9000.

[prince212]

Holy crap. I cannot believe what I am reading.

When the fandom demands that a mangaka be fired for a chapter they haven't even READ in a language comprehensible by said fandom, this is truly as bottom and embarrassing as the fandom gets.

When the fandom thinks that Toyo wrote Master Roshi with "UI" like he was doing it for shits and giggles, or to ruin his own manga and his mentor's legacy instead of telling a story about a teacher reminding his student of something more than just 'muhpowerscaling,' this is truly as shameful as I can get to be considered a part of this fandom.

If anything, Toyo doesn't deserve his audience since their knee-jerk reaction stupidity is over 9000.

Agree, 3 drawing spoilers and youtubers made the day , nowadays youtubers are gods and people don’t realize that they just want views and polemic , fans are being used . This fandom ? I’m not in , looks like they enjoy more looking for bad things than nothing else , I can’t see where is the fun . If I don’t like it I don’t watch it , I’m not saying for those to do the same eh .. but I think there’s more important things in the world to complain about than a cartoon that doesn’t fit your taste .
Btw I like toyotaro, don’t fire him , let it be

[RedHeat]

He should've been fired a while ago for his tracing.

[Pannaliciour]

If Toyotaro deserves to get fired over the manga, he better be joined by everyone involved with Super (minus the animators) because where the writing is concerned nobody should stay.

This 100%. Super's issues start with Toriyama as he's the head writer. He's the one who gives Toei and Toyotaro bare bone scripts (if you can even call them that) to work with. As far as we know Toriyama works closely with both parties so what you like or don't like goes through him and gets his approval. Next on the list would be Toei's writers as they clearly don't understand what it means for a show to have consistency. We're told and shown something one episode only for it to be completely contradicted in the next so whoever's bright idea it was to not have a head writer at Toei to keep things consistent should also go. Modern DB as a whole needs a complete overhaul when it comes to the writing department and as far as I'm concerned Toyotaro is the last person who should go as he's just following what's being given to him.

Wait.. what? Kefla getting Ring Out by Gohan? Roshi out of no where dodging Jiren's move (i dont buy the supress shit, because Jiren didn't know how strong Roshi is to begin with)

And Toyotara isnt following whats he being given to him. He clearly stated that he is know working outside of Toriyama's script. He must implement his own twist in the manga now. It was already done in the black arc.

[Rakurai]

Agree, 3 drawing spoilers and youtubers made the day , nowadays youtubers are gods and people don’t realize that they just want views and polemic , fans are being used . This fandom ? I’m not in , looks like they enjoy more looking for bad things than nothing else , I can’t see where is the fun . If I don’t like it I don’t watch it , I’m not saying for those to do the same eh .. but I think there’s more important things in the world to complain about than a cartoon that doesn’t fit your taste .
Btw I like toyotaro, don’t fire him , let it be

I think it's fine to follow a franchise if you like it and want to digest all the content to judge, even if you think it's all bad in the end.

What I hate is when people prematurely bitch about things they don't even have context for, and start calling Toyo a hack, his manga immediately shitty, or trolling the readers just cause they can only see a picture book.

I don't follow YouTubers with the exception of Ajay, who does animation videos with good insight and knowledge on what he's seeing based on experience and research. Also tempers his expectations without being too judgmental about things.

Other YouTubers like Geekdom101, that clown releases a Chapter 39 manga "review" when the full chapter hasn't even come out in English, and he's basing it off the Chinese translations which he himself can't even read and relies on secondary source translations? That really pisses me off. What a total joke and dishonest person.

[prince212]

And Toyotara isnt following whats he being given to him. He clearly stated that he is know working outside of Toriyama's script. He must implement his own twist in the manga now. It was already done in the black arc.

so do you think toriyama and nobody check on toyotaro,s stories ? There’s examples of small correction , and is very probable that all that you complain was approved -propose by toriyama and some other editors .
This is one of the last comments from toriyama

[ZombieVito]

Yes please.

His art is terrible and even worse are his writing skills.

I haven't enjoyed a single chapter of his manga.

[PFM18]

If Toyotaro deserves to get fired over the manga, he better be joined by everyone involved with Super (minus the animators) because where the writing is concerned nobody should stay.

This is so overdramatic. Super revived the franchise it sure as hell isn't producing writing worth firing everyone over.

[prince212]

If Toyotaro deserves to get fired over the manga, he better be joined by everyone involved with Super (minus the animators) because where the writing is concerned nobody should stay.

This is so overdramatic. Super revived the franchise it sure as hell isn't producing writing worth firing everyone over.

This post is overdramatic, faced it . It’s just one more war over the manga vs anime thing .
The truth is that both versions can be better , way better . And about toyotaro... he’s not the main responsable (for the ones who dislike it) talking about the writing. Who do you think stated that Roshi has to do something badass in the t.o.p arc , who put him on the list of the participants? Pretty sure was toriyama, and I loved it .
Toyotaro is mainly responsable of the art , story of DBS Manga has another name in the credits

[AnimeNation101]

I dont think Toyo should be fired as the manga isn’t even that important, its main priority was to advertise for the anime. Kinda like how the SDBH anime is for its game. But if we were to have something where the anime starts to follow the manga, Toyo would either need to improve drastically or get replaced. I want the manga to go back to Weekly Shonen Jump with the other big names like MHA and Black Clover where we can get a manga chapter weekly. There would be a dragon ball anime that would follow that manga.

It would be just like how it was before with Dragon ball. If Toyotaro can’t even write a decent manga chapter in a month, he could never handle a week. In a way, he’s kinda holding Dragon Ball back.

[Aizamasu]

This is the typical "I don't like something so nobody should be allowed to like it". If you don't like the manga, don't read it. But trying to deny the people who like it the opportunity to read it isn't nice.

[shadowfox87]

The official website has already announced that there will be an interview of Toriyama on Sept. 4th for the Volume 7 of the manga: http://vjump.shueisha.co.jp/comic/dbs03/
There, your questions will be answered as to what Toriyama actually thinks of the story so far in the manga.

[PFM18]

I dont think Toyo should be fired as the manga isn’t even that important, its main priority was to advertise for the anime. Kinda like how the SDBH anime is for its game. But if we were to have something where the anime starts to follow the manga, Toyo would either need to improve drastically or get replaced. I want the manga to go back to Weekly Shonen Jump with the other big names like MHA and Black Clover where we can get a manga chapter weekly. There would be a dragon ball anime that would follow that manga.

It would be just like how it was before with Dragon ball. If Toyotaro can’t even write a decent manga chapter in a month, he could never handle a week. In a way, he’s kinda holding Dragon Ball back.

I agree 100%.

What it comes down to, is that we ultimately aren't losing much traction in terms of the franchise if the manga tanks because it is secondary as a product. I would prefer it be higher quality than it is now, but it is what it is.

This is the typical "I don't like something so nobody should be allowed to like it". If you don't like the manga, don't read it. But trying to deny the people who like it the opportunity to read it isn't nice.

This is a weak argument. Taking the approach of "you don't have to read it!" ignores the fact that a passionate fan may just want something better. To "complain" about the current state of the manga is not denying other people the opportunity to read it, it is simply attempting to call for something better and something that a wider audience can appreciate. This does is not a matter of complaining for the sake of complaining as you seem to be implying, this is a case of being frustrated with how things are going and trying to discuss ways that it can improve.

[ekrolo2]

If Toyotaro deserves to get fired over the manga, he better be joined by everyone involved with Super (minus the animators) because where the writing is concerned nobody should stay.

This is so overdramatic. Super revived the franchise it sure as hell isn't producing writing worth firing everyone over.

Super has done the bare minimum to get a pass from most people: the fight scenes are fun and it's got some of Toriyama's charm on display. For many, that's more than enough to count as a good or great product when it comes to DB. Hell, I'd say if GT did the same things right it would've gotten a pass too even if all the other issues remained.