Kataphrut wrote:[spoiler]Herms made a tweet about the Goku and Trunks v Black and Zamasu fight in the anime (
https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1034635100619599872) that sums up the issue I have with getting worked up over power-scaling. The idea that this amazing fight sequence was controversial because the weakest character isn't immediately one-shot is ludicrous. Never mind that as Herms says, Trunks never manages to seriously harm either of them and is clearly on the back foot throughout most of the fight so it isn't even particularly inconsistent. It confirms my suspicion that most dedicated power scalers aren't really paying attention to the action onscreen, they're just constantly running numbers in their head like they're studying for an exam.
Now, this logic also applies to most of Roshi's fights in the anime, particularly him vs Frost. To anyone watching, it's obvious Roshi stands no chance against Frost, is being toyed with and is completely worn out by the end. But because he landed a couple of surprise blows during that fight, "the power-scaling is bad." I don't personally care about this, you could have Krillin throwing hands with Jiren and I'll buy it so long as it makes sense on screen (and hey, remember when that was a hyperbolic statement used to exaggerate Super's power-scaling issues?). The problem I have with Roshi v Jiren and the defence of it is that the manga was meant to be the version that avoided the issue. This is the same version that mostly sidelined Trunks in his own arc to avoid having him fight god-tier characters, and people praised it for being "better than the anime." This is the version that blitzed through the Tournament of Power, taking out characters and even entire universes that the anime at least attempted to utilise and people praised it because "it's more like a battle royale."
Roshi v Jiren broke the rules the manga was operating under in the worst way possible. It didn't even feel like an underdog fight compared to Frost v Roshi in the anime, it was basically Roshi styling on Jiren until the latter randomly decided he'd had enough and blew him away. This is the version people praise for being more grounded and less "rule of cool" than the anime, but ends up producing the shallowest "cool moment" of them all.[/spoiler] All it really goes to show is that looking for grounding in Dragon Ball is pointless, and you're better off just embracing the fun.
Amen to that last sentence.
Mostly agree all in your message.
I take the fun , look for coherence just make me think that , for example goku should be out of the tournament by Jiren long time ago , in both versions . Call them plot convenience, plot holes , coherence or whatever , there’s always tons of them .
I take the fun and run . Roshi 2 pages dodging was one of the best moments in my opinion . Chill .
Sometimes they work better or not , depending of your tastes, for example I hate bulma going to the future and facing zamasu and nobody complains about it . There is other times like mr.satan surviving a punch from cell that I take it funny ..
So this roshi jiren , I really liked it . But I understand most of people not . For me in that chapter containing roshi vs jiren , gohan vs kefla was worse , I can’t deal with kafla admitting her defeat like she did ... in a serious moment ...
Roshi jiren was a joke just to adjust the ultra instinct plot in that way , that for me still has more sense that eat a boom and obtain ultra instinct . Btw was nice too