Can someone explain to me why Roshi vs Jiren is bad?

[Bergamo]

The reason why Roshi v Jiren is bad, is because it spits in the face of everything that came before it.

Dragonball isn't One Piece. Dragonball was never the series where someone like Krillin can make it with enough determination. But in Super, starting with the RoF, and now in the ToP, the series wants to pretend that half of the Z Fighters didn't die when Vegeta came to Earth, or that all the human fighters besides Krillin have reached off screen new heights in power. And then it culminates in this circle jerk of Master Roshi using a Proto UI against Jiren.

Forget where was this against Raditz. Where was this against King Piccolo? When Master Roshi said the only thing that could stop him was the Mafuba? And no, it makes no sense that somehow Master Roshi would have the same outcome if he fought King Piccolo like he fought Jiren. Why? Because King Piccolo is a speck of sand in the beach that is Dragonball power scaling. King Piccolo could barely destroy a city with one blast while Jiren is stronger than at least One God of Destruction, so how the hell is Master Roshi going to be fast enough to keep up with Jiren, but cannot seal the deal with someone infinitely weaker and infinitely slower than Jiren. Some things about Dragonball can't be rewritten because plot.

Now, let's say for the sake of (a very stupid) argument, that Master Roshi would do the exact same with every opponent stronger than him. he can dodge a few attacks against Jiren before failing? Then the same with King Piccolo...So, why didn't he train? He knew the Saiyans were coming. He knew the Androids were coming. Surely if he could dodge so goddamn well, then he could have trained to dodge even more. Maybe even train the younger fighters so they could do as well as him. Maybe that dodging, could have evolved into punching. Shoot he could have discovered UI on his own, and Tenshinhan and Piccolo and all the others could have learned it as well. But that didn't happen. So, apparently, Master Roshi is negligent. He has had all this access to a proto UI all this time but decides to use it now. And maybe just maybe if there was precedent? If he had actually did ANYTHING of value in Z, then sure, why not. But in this shoddy attempt to rewrite the past sins that this series has made by making everything about the Saiyans? No. Just no. And that's why Roshi v Jiren is bad.

PS Speaking of Piccolo: Kami has lived longer than Master Roshi, he is a better fighter and instructor than Master Roshi, and being the God of Earth for a time, had access to all kinds of knowledge, that was instantly transferred to Piccolo when they fused...So why the hell doesn't Piccolo know this Proto UI? Why wasn't he fighting Jiren? That would make more sense, he's been in the thick of it from the very beginning, and he's been thrown the most bones out of everyone. He didn't just come out of nowhere and be like "I'm strong now" We saw his evolution for years. If there is anyone who should have been able to click at the most opportune time, it should have been Piccolo, not an old lech who gave up decades ago

Pretty much why I dislike it. The fact that Goku was degraded to such a degree for this one moment is just appalling to me. It's not as if Goku hasn't been in worse situations than what is shown here, for him to just all of a sudden forget his fundamentals is just piss poor writing. Goku is not just a fighter, he is THE fighter, and the series has let us know that since his first Kamehameha.

Jiren is also degraded for this moment. Watching Roshi keep up with Jiren, regardless of how suppressed he was, it makes Jiren look like a hack. From the looks of things, his fight with UI Goku can only end in one of two ways: 1.The final fight will be one-sided, with UI Goku completely dominating Jiren, which would be very lackluster.
2. Jiren is able to keep up with UI Goku without having UI, which completely spits in the face of Roshi's moment here.
Either way, i can tell that this chapter was poorly planned as this plot point will be dropped SOON.

Jiren -No sells Blue Goku and Hit at the same time
- Defeats Hit in one punch
-Misses Roshi a few times, but then defeats him with a wimpy karate chop once he decides to actually try.

JIREN IS WEAK

[FoolsGil]

The reason why Roshi v Jiren is bad, is because it spits in the face of everything that came before it.

Dragonball isn't One Piece. Dragonball was never the series where someone like Krillin can make it with enough determination. But in Super, starting with the RoF, and now in the ToP, the series wants to pretend that half of the Z Fighters didn't die when Vegeta came to Earth, or that all the human fighters besides Krillin have reached off screen new heights in power. And then it culminates in this circle jerk of Master Roshi using a Proto UI against Jiren.

Forget where was this against Raditz. Where was this against King Piccolo? When Master Roshi said the only thing that could stop him was the Mafuba? And no, it makes no sense that somehow Master Roshi would have the same outcome if he fought King Piccolo like he fought Jiren. Why? Because King Piccolo is a speck of sand in the beach that is Dragonball power scaling. King Piccolo could barely destroy a city with one blast while Jiren is stronger than at least One God of Destruction, so how the hell is Master Roshi going to be fast enough to keep up with Jiren, but cannot seal the deal with someone infinitely weaker and infinitely slower than Jiren. Some things about Dragonball can't be rewritten because plot.

Now, let's say for the sake of (a very stupid) argument, that Master Roshi would do the exact same with every opponent stronger than him. he can dodge a few attacks against Jiren before failing? Then the same with King Piccolo...So, why didn't he train? He knew the Saiyans were coming. He knew the Androids were coming. Surely if he could dodge so goddamn well, then he could have trained to dodge even more. Maybe even train the younger fighters so they could do as well as him. Maybe that dodging, could have evolved into punching. Shoot he could have discovered UI on his own, and Tenshinhan and Piccolo and all the others could have learned it as well. But that didn't happen. So, apparently, Master Roshi is negligent. He has had all this access to a proto UI all this time but decides to use it now. And maybe just maybe if there was precedent? If he had actually did ANYTHING of value in Z, then sure, why not. But in this shoddy attempt to rewrite the past sins that this series has made by making everything about the Saiyans? No. Just no. And that's why Roshi v Jiren is bad.

PS Speaking of Piccolo: Kami has lived longer than Master Roshi, he is a better fighter and instructor than Master Roshi, and being the God of Earth for a time, had access to all kinds of knowledge, that was instantly transferred to Piccolo when they fused...So why the hell doesn't Piccolo know this Proto UI? Why wasn't he fighting Jiren? That would make more sense, he's been in the thick of it from the very beginning, and he's been thrown the most bones out of everyone. He didn't just come out of nowhere and be like "I'm strong now" We saw his evolution for years. If there is anyone who should have been able to click at the most opportune time, it should have been Piccolo, not an old lech who gave up decades ago

Pretty much why I dislike it. The fact that Goku was degraded to such a degree for this one moment is just appalling to me. It's not as if Goku hasn't been in worse situations than what is shown here, for him to just all of a sudden forget his fundamentals is just piss poor writing. Goku is not just a fighter, he is THE fighter, and the series has let us know that since his first Kamehameha.

Jiren is also degraded for this moment. Watching Roshi keep up with Jiren, regardless of how suppressed he was, it makes Jiren look like a hack. From the looks of things, his fight with UI Goku can only end in one of two ways: 1.The final fight will be one-sided, with UI Goku completely dominating Jiren, which would be very lackluster.
2. Jiren is able to keep up with UI Goku without having UI, which completely spits in the face of Roshi's moment here.
Either way, i can tell that this chapter was poorly planned as this plot point will be dropped SOON.

Jiren -No sells Blue Goku and Hit at the same time
- Defeats Hit in one punch
-Misses Roshi a few times, but then defeats him with a wimpy karate chop once he decides to actually try.

JIREN IS WEAK

No, Super is just crap.

[reecehoward]

The reason why Roshi v Jiren is bad, is because it spits in the face of everything that came before it.

Dragonball isn't One Piece. Dragonball was never the series where someone like Krillin can make it with enough determination. But in Super, starting with the RoF, and now in the ToP, the series wants to pretend that half of the Z Fighters didn't die when Vegeta came to Earth, or that all the human fighters besides Krillin have reached off screen new heights in power. And then it culminates in this circle jerk of Master Roshi using a Proto UI against Jiren.

Forget where was this against Raditz. Where was this against King Piccolo? When Master Roshi said the only thing that could stop him was the Mafuba? And no, it makes no sense that somehow Master Roshi would have the same outcome if he fought King Piccolo like he fought Jiren. Why? Because King Piccolo is a speck of sand in the beach that is Dragonball power scaling. King Piccolo could barely destroy a city with one blast while Jiren is stronger than at least One God of Destruction, so how the hell is Master Roshi going to be fast enough to keep up with Jiren, but cannot seal the deal with someone infinitely weaker and infinitely slower than Jiren. Some things about Dragonball can't be rewritten because plot.

Now, let's say for the sake of (a very stupid) argument, that Master Roshi would do the exact same with every opponent stronger than him. he can dodge a few attacks against Jiren before failing? Then the same with King Piccolo...So, why didn't he train? He knew the Saiyans were coming. He knew the Androids were coming. Surely if he could dodge so goddamn well, then he could have trained to dodge even more. Maybe even train the younger fighters so they could do as well as him. Maybe that dodging, could have evolved into punching. Shoot he could have discovered UI on his own, and Tenshinhan and Piccolo and all the others could have learned it as well. But that didn't happen. So, apparently, Master Roshi is negligent. He has had all this access to a proto UI all this time but decides to use it now. And maybe just maybe if there was precedent? If he had actually did ANYTHING of value in Z, then sure, why not. But in this shoddy attempt to rewrite the past sins that this series has made by making everything about the Saiyans? No. Just no. And that's why Roshi v Jiren is bad.

PS Speaking of Piccolo: Kami has lived longer than Master Roshi, he is a better fighter and instructor than Master Roshi, and being the God of Earth for a time, had access to all kinds of knowledge, that was instantly transferred to Piccolo when they fused...So why the hell doesn't Piccolo know this Proto UI? Why wasn't he fighting Jiren? That would make more sense, he's been in the thick of it from the very beginning, and he's been thrown the most bones out of everyone. He didn't just come out of nowhere and be like "I'm strong now" We saw his evolution for years. If there is anyone who should have been able to click at the most opportune time, it should have been Piccolo, not an old lech who gave up decades ago

Pretty much why I dislike it. The fact that Goku was degraded to such a degree for this one moment is just appalling to me. It's not as if Goku hasn't been in worse situations than what is shown here, for him to just all of a sudden forget his fundamentals is just piss poor writing. Goku is not just a fighter, he is THE fighter, and the series has let us know that since his first Kamehameha.

Jiren is also degraded for this moment. Watching Roshi keep up with Jiren, regardless of how suppressed he was, it makes Jiren look like a hack. From the looks of things, his fight with UI Goku can only end in one of two ways: 1.The final fight will be one-sided, with UI Goku completely dominating Jiren, which would be very lackluster.
2. Jiren is able to keep up with UI Goku without having UI, which completely spits in the face of Roshi's moment here.
Either way, i can tell that this chapter was poorly planned as this plot point will be dropped SOON.

Jiren -No sells Blue Goku and Hit at the same time
- Defeats Hit in one punch
-Misses Roshi a few times, but then defeats him with a wimpy karate chop once he decides to actually try.

JIREN IS WEAK

Not weak in power, but rather weak in skills, especially considering he's above a GoD. Roshi finessed him with a poor man's UI while he was supposedly fighting at Roshi's level. This tells me that Goku with the real deal will be a one-sided curbstomp in Goku's favor. Who knows...

[Bergamo]

Pretty much why I dislike it. The fact that Goku was degraded to such a degree for this one moment is just appalling to me. It's not as if Goku hasn't been in worse situations than what is shown here, for him to just all of a sudden forget his fundamentals is just piss poor writing. Goku is not just a fighter, he is THE fighter, and the series has let us know that since his first Kamehameha.

Jiren is also degraded for this moment. Watching Roshi keep up with Jiren, regardless of how suppressed he was, it makes Jiren look like a hack. From the looks of things, his fight with UI Goku can only end in one of two ways: 1.The final fight will be one-sided, with UI Goku completely dominating Jiren, which would be very lackluster.
2. Jiren is able to keep up with UI Goku without having UI, which completely spits in the face of Roshi's moment here.
Either way, i can tell that this chapter was poorly planned as this plot point will be dropped SOON.

Jiren -No sells Blue Goku and Hit at the same time
- Defeats Hit in one punch
-Misses Roshi a few times, but then defeats him with a wimpy karate chop once he decides to actually try.

JIREN IS WEAK

Not weak in power, but rather weak in skills, especially considering he's above a GoD. Roshi finessed him with a poor man's UI while he was supposedly fighting at Roshi's level. This tells me that Goku with the real deal will be a one-sided curbstomp in Goku's favor. Who knows...

Of course his skills won't be as good as UI Roshi's when he's at Roshi's level. The definition of Ultra Instinct is what Roshi did except at a Godly level.

[Miracles]

https://imgur.com/ZweapRr

https://imgur.com/PyIWTQp

[BWri]

It's not bad.

Contrived? Probably.

But bad? Not by any means unless you follow power levels strictly.

I love the fact that Roshi got to show his stuff off in a way that suits him. Like Whis says, with age comes wisdom, and he knows what it takes to tap into UI if he were trained by an Angel at the very least.

It'd be great if they actually built Roshi up beforehand as someone who's been training and seeking new levels of power, skill, and ability, but really his participation in Super is out of the blue and to have him fight a character on Jiren's level is the height of ridiculousness. Dragon Ball hasn't worked like that since the introduction of Tao. Literally everything after that is power >>>> skill. Skill only come into play when a fighter is in the power ballpark of their opponent. This feat would be cool in any other show but DBS and DBZ. Not only don't things work this way, but there is absolutely no build-up for this so its totally unearned. I hate to say it, but its an asspull for Roshi. Roshi should've just shown the skill off against another Pride Trooper of ambiguous power level.

[Bergamo]

It's not bad.

Contrived? Probably.

But bad? Not by any means unless you follow power levels strictly.

I love the fact that Roshi got to show his stuff off in a way that suits him. Like Whis says, with age comes wisdom, and he knows what it takes to tap into UI if he were trained by an Angel at the very least.

It'd be great if they actually built Roshi up beforehand as someone who's been training and seeking new levels of power, skill, and ability, but really his participation in Super is out of the blue and to have him fight a character on Jiren's level is the height of ridiculousness. Dragon Ball hasn't worked like that since the introduction of Tao. Literally everything after that is power >>>> skill. Skill only come into play when a fighter is in the power ballpark of their opponent. This feat would be cool in any other show but DBS and DBZ. Not only don't things work this way, but there is absolutely no build-up for this so its totally unearned. I hate to say it, but its an asspull for Roshi. Roshi should've just shown the skill off against another Pride Trooper of ambiguous power level.

While I do agree that Roshi should have showcased this ability against someone else, if this could work in another show, then it can work here. DBS doesn't have to be bound strictly to what DBZ did. DBS is trying to take the franchise in a new direction(trying being the operative word). This is why the strongest power ups make Goku skinnier and why Hit was able to keep up with Goku due to his ability being unknown, rather than him being super strong.

[Saturnine]

Still, no amount of skill/mental discipline should do any good against someone who's literally billions og times stronger than you.

[Bergamo]

Still, no amount of skill/mental discipline should do any good against someone who's literally billions og times stronger than you.

You have to remember that these people who are billions of times stronger than the average human struggle to lift less than 100 tons. Power in DragonBall isn't as rigidly defined as you seem to suggest.

[Saturnine]

Still, no amount of skill/mental discipline should do any good against someone who's literally billions og times stronger than you.

You have to remember that these people who are billions of times stronger than the average human struggle to lift less than 100 tons. Power in DragonBall isn't as rigidly defined as you seem to suggest.

And yet still, a 1.25x power and speed difference is enough to instantly murder someone, and it should only get worse the bigger the gap is. To be fair though, the anime was guilty of a similar thing when Goku in base could keep up with SSj2 Caulifla.

[JazzMazz]

Despite being brought up a bit, I think no one has ever really effectively argued against that there is literally no real in story reason why Roshi, who wasn't even worthy enough as a martial artist to face and learn from the god of earth, and has been retired for 20 years, is somehow capable of movement more advanced than any Goku ever demonstrated, and advanced enough to impress even the gods of the universe, even though Roshi had never previously demonstrated movement that advanced before.

Am I supposed to believe that the gods of the universe would be super impressed by Kami's training and combat skills?

[Rakurai]

Still, no amount of skill/mental discipline should do any good against someone who's literally billions og times stronger than you.

Characters don't move at light speed or put enough power in their attacks to bust planets all the time even though they're perfectly capable of doing so.

[reecehoward]

Despite being brought up a bit, I think no one has ever really effectively argued against that there is literally no real in story reason why Roshi, who wasn't even worthy enough as a martial artist to face and learn from the god of earth, and has been retired for 20 years, is somehow capable of movement more advanced than any Goku ever demonstrated, and advanced enough to impress even the gods of the universe, even though Roshi had never previously demonstrated movement that advanced before.

Am I supposed to believe that the gods of the universe would be super impressed by Kami's training and combat skills?

People do bring up things like this, but it's largely ignored by those defending this chapter. I've learned and accepted that with this chapter being praised for it's "brilliance" and "bEiNg BeTtEr tHaN AnIMe", that anything goes for the hardcore manga fans as long as it's there and because Toyotaro wrote it. So while many have gone on record with how Roshi was never the person we got in this chapter, people just eat it up as If Roshi wasn't THAT dude who taught Goku and Krillin that fighting was about power.

What's even more...odd is that we are supposed to be impressed by Roshi while at the same time treat it like it's not a big deal because Jiren was holding back to less than .01% of his power. That's how bad the writing is for the entire thing. You literally can't tell if we are supposed to be in awe of Roshi or his "message".

[reecehoward]

Still, no amount of skill/mental discipline should do any good against someone who's literally billions og times stronger than you.

Characters don't move at light speed or put enough power in their attacks to bust planets all the time even though they're perfectly capable of doing so.

Only when they are powered down is this the case. If you see a Ssj2-SsG, it's safe to assume that's the bare minimum of power they are putting out.

[Bergamo]

Despite being brought up a bit, I think no one has ever really effectively argued against that there is literally no real in story reason why Roshi, who wasn't even worthy enough as a martial artist to face and learn from the god of earth, and has been retired for 20 years, is somehow capable of movement more advanced than any Goku ever demonstrated, and advanced enough to impress even the gods of the universe, even though Roshi had never previously demonstrated movement that advanced before.

Am I supposed to believe that the gods of the universe would be super impressed by Kami's training and combat skills?

People do bring up things like this, but it's largely ignored by those defending this chapter. I've learned and accepted that with this chapter being praised for it's "brilliance" and "bEiNg BeTtEr tHaN AnIMe", that anything goes for the hardcore manga fans as long as it's there and because Toyotaro wrote it. So while many have gone on record with how Roshi was never the person we got in this chapter, people just eat it up as If Roshi wasn't THAT dude who taught Goku and Krillin that fighting was about power.

What's even more...odd is that we are supposed to be impressed by Roshi while at the same time treat it like it's not a big deal because Jiren was holding back to less than .01% of his power. That's how bad the writing is for the entire thing. You literally can't tell if we are supposed to be in awe of Roshi or his "message".

1. Alternating caps isn't an argument. Don't assume that I will defend the manga to the death just because I don't go out of my way to bash this one particular story flaw.
2. Roshi was all about power huh? Then why does he show off the most unique techniques out of any fighter in Dragon Ball during his fight in the 21st Budokai? It seems like you are purposefully distorting Master Roshi's character.
3. You're supposed to be kind of impressed. Whis says that Master Roshi's movement is impressive for a mere human but not on the level of the gods. It's right there in the chapter.

[reecehoward]

Despite being brought up a bit, I think no one has ever really effectively argued against that there is literally no real in story reason why Roshi, who wasn't even worthy enough as a martial artist to face and learn from the god of earth, and has been retired for 20 years, is somehow capable of movement more advanced than any Goku ever demonstrated, and advanced enough to impress even the gods of the universe, even though Roshi had never previously demonstrated movement that advanced before.

Am I supposed to believe that the gods of the universe would be super impressed by Kami's training and combat skills?

People do bring up things like this, but it's largely ignored by those defending this chapter. I've learned and accepted that with this chapter being praised for it's "brilliance" and "bEiNg BeTtEr tHaN AnIMe", that anything goes for the hardcore manga fans as long as it's there and because Toyotaro wrote it. So while many have gone on record with how Roshi was never the person we got in this chapter, people just eat it up as If Roshi wasn't THAT dude who taught Goku and Krillin that fighting was about power.

What's even more...odd is that we are supposed to be impressed by Roshi while at the same time treat it like it's not a big deal because Jiren was holding back to less than .01% of his power. That's how bad the writing is for the entire thing. You literally can't tell if we are supposed to be in awe of Roshi or his "message".

1. Alternating caps isn't an argument. Don't assume that I will defend the manga to the death just because I don't go out of my way to bash this one particular story flaw.
2. Roshi was all about power huh? Then why does he show off the most unique techniques out of any fighter in Dragon Ball during his fight in the 21st Budokai? It seems like you are purposefully distorting Master Roshi's character.
3. You're supposed to be kind of impressed. Whis says that Master Roshi's movement is impressive for a mere human but not on the level of the gods. It's right there in the chapter.

My comment was extremely generalized, it definitely wasn't aimed at you. I see the same things in nearly any forum or comment section in regards to the DBS manga. The fact that you felt that it was a personal attack towards you says more about you than myself.

Reread what I said: Roshi TAUGHT Goku and Krillin that fighting was about power. I never said that he fought that way. It's highly hypocritical for him to bash Goku for the very things he actually taught him. He had the audacity to blame that on Vegeta and Frieza, when that was how HE trained Goku.lol The fact that anyone can sit there with a straight face and say, "it's fine" or "it makes sense" when it doesn't at all in the context of Dragonball's internal logic OR the history of the characters involved is absolutely beyond me.

[Bergamo]

People do bring up things like this, but it's largely ignored by those defending this chapter. I've learned and accepted that with this chapter being praised for it's "brilliance" and "bEiNg BeTtEr tHaN AnIMe", that anything goes for the hardcore manga fans as long as it's there and because Toyotaro wrote it. So while many have gone on record with how Roshi was never the person we got in this chapter, people just eat it up as If Roshi wasn't THAT dude who taught Goku and Krillin that fighting was about power.

What's even more...odd is that we are supposed to be impressed by Roshi while at the same time treat it like it's not a big deal because Jiren was holding back to less than .01% of his power. That's how bad the writing is for the entire thing. You literally can't tell if we are supposed to be in awe of Roshi or his "message".

1. Alternating caps isn't an argument. Don't assume that I will defend the manga to the death just because I don't go out of my way to bash this one particular story flaw.
2. Roshi was all about power huh? Then why does he show off the most unique techniques out of any fighter in Dragon Ball during his fight in the 21st Budokai? It seems like you are purposefully distorting Master Roshi's character.
3. You're supposed to be kind of impressed. Whis says that Master Roshi's movement is impressive for a mere human but not on the level of the gods. It's right there in the chapter.

My comment was extremely generalized, it definitely wasn't aimed at you. I see the same things in nearly any forum or comment section in regards to the DBS manga. The fact that you felt that it was a personal attack towards you says more about you than myself.

Reread what I said: Roshi TAUGHT Goku and Krillin that fighting was about power. I never said that he fought that way. It's highly hypocritical for him to bash Goku for the very things he actually taught him. He had the audacity to blame that on Vegeta and Frieza, when that was how HE trained Goku.lol The fact that anyone can sit there with a straight face and say, "it's fine" or "it makes sense" when it doesn't at all in the context of Dragonball's internal logic OR the history of the characters involved is absolutely beyond me.

I didn't think that your comment was a personal attack. I just assumed that you think every manga fan has an agenda. Also, you posted on my thread and didn't reply to anyone, so I also assumed that it had something to do with the original post.

[prince212]

[reecehoward]

1. Alternating caps isn't an argument. Don't assume that I will defend the manga to the death just because I don't go out of my way to bash this one particular story flaw.
2. Roshi was all about power huh? Then why does he show off the most unique techniques out of any fighter in Dragon Ball during his fight in the 21st Budokai? It seems like you are purposefully distorting Master Roshi's character.
3. You're supposed to be kind of impressed. Whis says that Master Roshi's movement is impressive for a mere human but not on the level of the gods. It's right there in the chapter.

My comment was extremely generalized, it definitely wasn't aimed at you. I see the same things in nearly any forum or comment section in regards to the DBS manga. The fact that you felt that it was a personal attack towards you says more about you than myself.

Reread what I said: Roshi TAUGHT Goku and Krillin that fighting was about power. I never said that he fought that way. It's highly hypocritical for him to bash Goku for the very things he actually taught him. He had the audacity to blame that on Vegeta and Frieza, when that was how HE trained Goku.lol The fact that anyone can sit there with a straight face and say, "it's fine" or "it makes sense" when it doesn't at all in the context of Dragonball's internal logic OR the history of the characters involved is absolutely beyond me.

I didn't think that your comment was a personal attack. I just assumed that you think every manga fan has an agenda. Also, you posted on my thread and didn't reply to anyone, so I also assumed that it had something to do with the original post.

I DID reply to someone: JazzMazz. Also, I know how to tell when someone is being biased on their preference of the manga, it's actually very easy. Lliterally everyone who are in that group does mostly the same things: accept things in the manga that they openly and vocally bashed the anime for.

[Rakurai]

Still, no amount of skill/mental discipline should do any good against someone who's literally billions og times stronger than you.

Characters don't move at light speed or put enough power in their attacks to bust planets all the time even though they're perfectly capable of doing so.

Only when they are powered down is this the case. If you see a Ssj2-SsG, it's safe to assume that's the bare minimum of power they are putting out.

No it isn't. Goku and Majin Vegeta didn't endanger Earth for however much they were going at it.