Why are they retconning the original Bardock special? Now it's no longer canon?

[zDBZ]

As much as Toriyam seemed to like the TV special to include a scene of it in the manga, Dragon Ball Minus is Toriyama's personally crafted backstory for Bardock and Goku. And for the sake of convenience, he's just going with the story that he's more accustomed to, or at the very least, has better knowledge of.

And the one that's worse, across the board.

I suppose we'll just have to see how much of Minus is used, and how it plays against the other material. I prefer the anime's original designs for Bardock, King Vegeta, Paragus, and Broly to anything in the new trailer, but I do find the King Vegeta flashback filler undermines the tragedy of the Saiyans. On that front, at least, I look forward to a new telling. OTOH, I like Paragus and Broly's backstories (in concept if not wholly in execution), I hate the retcon of Beerus being involved with Freeza and the Saiyans, and Minus is one of the worst things in the whole franchise IMO, so...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[JulieYBM]

Toriyama and Nagamine had a new idea, so we're getting a new idea. The scenes from the trailer look pretty awesome, so I'm looking forward to it. I can't wait to see the Saiyans fight Freeza's army.

[AnimeNation101]

Toriyama and Nagamine had a new idea, so we're getting a new idea. The scenes from the trailer look pretty awesome, so I'm looking forward to it. I can't wait to see the Saiyans fight Freeza's army.

Where do you see that? The trailer makes it seem as though Cold just comes down and makes the Saiyans Freeza’s bitch. King Vegeta even looks scared as hell before he bows down. Maybe Freeza or Cold one shots someone to show their power.

There doesn’t seem to be any fight that goes down

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

What i am hoping that as soon as Goku blasts off, Bardock flies off to confront Freeza. The one thing I hope they at least keep from the TV special is his confrontation with Freeza before Vegeta blows up.

[Polyphase Avatron]

It was never canon in the first place. Toriyama just liked the character of Bardock and referenced him in the manga. 'Canon' changes every year it seems.

[Saturnine]

1) The Bardock Special was never really canon, though it was well-liked by Toriyama ans influences from it did leak to the manga
2) Chill the fuck out about Bardock's last stand - we don't know if it was cut from this movie, likely not.
3) Why do you care so much about that last stand scene anyway? It was ok, but that's it. Also, "iconic armor"? Is that shit really that important to you?

[precita]

Where are Bardock's Saiyan teammates? Will they no longer exist?

So Bardock with the bandana doesn't cause an uprising and try to fight off Freeza's men in space before Freeza kills them all? What happens then, Bardock is just on Planet Vegeta with his wife as he dies? What a boring ending that will be.

Honestly this whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. I'd rather the Broly movie never had any Bardock stuff at all and ignored it then to have this. Now it feels like everything is ruined. Feels like the final straw that will break the camels back in terms of Toriyama becoming the Japanese version of George Lucas.

[ricky84]

The fandom brought this all on themselves with the Toriyama = good/canon.

It time for fans to live with the bed they made with canon/original author debates and blind Fanaticism.

Personally I dislike minus, but I’m well past the point of what contradicts what as the author clearly does give a rats butt about consistency or world lore (consequentially my favor part of DB).

I’ll check is out because it’s Broly and that’s about it which is all studio execs are banking on. Artistic integrity be damned.

To be honest, many of the best and most famous elements of DB(Z) actually came from people other than Toriyama, kinda like how many of the best aspects of Star Wars don't come from George Lucus himself.

Stuff like Vegeta surviving the Saiyan arc and becoming the Deuteragonist, the very existence of 17, 18 & Cell, the anime version of the History of Trunks, the concept of Fusion and the character of Bardock himself were not Toriyama's ideas for the series at all.

[ricky84]

1) The Bardock Special was never really canon, though it was well-liked by Toriyama ans influences from it did leak to the manga
2) Chill the fuck out about Bardock's last stand - we don't know if it was cut from this movie, likely not.
3) Why do you care so much about that last stand scene anyway? It was ok, but that's it. Also, "iconic armor"? Is that shit really that important to you?

1. If Toriyama liked the 90s version so much, why did he feel the need to change it (especially after referencing it in the original manga)?
2/3. Bardock's last stand is his character's defining moment and it permanently made him one of the biggest badasses in Dragonball. To take it (and his iconic blood bandana) away from him is to essentially ruin his character.

[lancerman]

The original Bardock special was no more canon than the Broly or Cooler movies lol. Aside from one panel in the manga, that's the only thing about it. And honestly, I get that it was popular with fans, but it was otherwise irrelevant from a canon perspective. Not to mention this definitively gets rid of the crappy Episode of Bardock. I get that people liked the Bardock special, but this looks like overall it's better for the lore of the actual main characters. I wouldn't avoid that to service a popular secondary character whose whole appeal is based off a non canon special

[Marlowe89]

Did I time travel back to 2014?

Few people seem to understand that a product's "canon" status is never dictated by its popularity or quality. The Bardock TV special wasn't necessarily a part of Toriyama's continuity in the first place, but more importantly, it didn't need to be. That shouldn't affect your enjoyment of it.

[Saturnine]

1. If Toriyama liked the 90s version so much, why did he feel the need to change it (especially after referencing it in the original manga?

Because it was not his story, simple as.

Also, not everyone really cares about Bardock so much, even if he is liked by a lot of people as a badass. I don't mind him being converted into a plain backstory character personally, he is simply not that important.

[zDBZ]

The original Bardock special was no more canon than the Broly or Cooler movies lol. Aside from one panel in the manga, that's the only thing about it. And honestly, I get that it was popular with fans, but it was otherwise irrelevant from a canon perspective. Not to mention this definitively gets rid of the crappy Episode of Bardock. I get that people liked the Bardock special, but this looks like overall it's better for the lore of the actual main characters. I wouldn't avoid that to service a popular secondary character whose whole appeal is based off a non canon special

Except that said non-canon special is the only reason Bardock exists in the first place. And, by the nature of its classical tragic storyline, the special doesn't easily lend itself to any sort of continuation or expansion. Bardock appearing in this movie, "Episode of Bardock," Minus itself - these are the fanservice. They're all part of the mindset of "everyone loves that character, so let's do more with him!" - even when that character, in his original incarnation, was given a very definite end to his story.

[Shaddy]

The original Broly movies are the only reason he's in this new one. That doesn't make them canon.

[wolflonnie]

Dragonball is a creation of a Toriyama. Bardock special was not. He has the right of doing whatever the heck he wants with HIS series.

[sintzu]

If Bardock's rebellion doesn't happen and he doesn't confront Freeza in space, the series is ruined forever for me. The series would be dead to me now.

A bit late to take such a stance. Ever since Toriyama came back all the way in 2008 with that OVA he's been making these odd choices so you should be used to them at this point. Regarding Bardock, his rebellion against Freeza is very iconic so I highly doubt they're taking it away, especially in a movie that's made for fan service.

I do find the King Vegeta flashback filler undermines the tragedy of the Saiyans. On that front, at least, I look forward to a new telling.

Vegeta's royal blood and the Saiyan lore were very under utilized in the original manga but thankfully it looks like Toriyama's finally going to take advantage of all that untapped potential.

The Bardock TV special wasn't necessarily a part of Toriyama's continuity in the first place.

The scene of him standing up to Freeza was in the original manga which is what fans are worried about as not only was it part of the original manga, it's what makes Bardock who he is.

[supersaiyanZero]

Yes, let's retcon what was arguably one of the best works this franchise had to offer.

Have to wonder wtf goes on in that board room sometimes...

[FortuneSSJ]

Not even the manga is safe anymore, that's why find funny when I see people doing mental gymnastics to fit EOZ in Super. It's obvious they don't care.

[Nickolaidas]

Oh yes, heaven forbid if Toriyama decided to retcon or rewrite a flashback filler chapter and rewrite things he didn't think through 30 freakin years ago.

Let's all complain about it to prove to ourselves and the fanbase that we know by heart every line and scene and that we know what really makes dragonball/broly/bardock special. (Bardock special - see what I did there? NOTICE MEEEE!!!)

Chill the fuck out. Lot of you. Dragonball isn't 'ruined' if they make Bardock less of an asshole, it isn't ruined if frieza is in his teens, and it certainly won't break any camel backs if Bardock loses the red bandana.

Grow the fuck up.

[Doctor.]

Why do you care if it's canon or not?

The TV Special is still there. You can still watch it and prefer that story to whatever is shown in this movie. The original anime with filler that's based on the TV Special is still there. The original manga still exists, and you can just interpret the events in it through the lens of the Bardock special.

That's certainly what I'm gonna do, because whatever is "canon" is meaningless and arbitrary.