Was Vegito's appearance in Super a last minute decision?

[90sDBZ]

I just finished watching DBS part 5 on Blu-ray which ends on the episode before Vegito's appearance, and noticed that while the NEP focuses on Vegito, neither Goku's narration nor the episode title make any mention of Vegito or fusion. Goku's narration is pretty much just him telling Zamasu not to underestimate saiyans.

I know there's an interview where Toriyama says he only had Vegito appear to please the fans, and that he hadn't intended to use him again after the Buu arc. Was it at the last minute he changed his mind? Or was it earlier?

[ekrolo2]

It was during the planning process for the arc I think where Toyotaro made the suggestion of Vegetto appearing instead of Toriyama's original idea of two SSBlue's fighting at the same time to overcome him. Even in the manga where Vegetto being a waste of time actually serves a point, you can really tell he's haphazardly thrown into the story with little consideration beyond appeasing fans.

[SupremeKai25]

Vegito was never meant to appear, he was reintroduced only because he is popular. In the original draft, Fused Zamasu, while extremely powerful, would have ultimately been defeated by the combined strength of SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta.

Thank goodness that they changed it. It would be so anticlimactic if the final FUSED villain of the arc could just be defeated with a little bit of teamwork.

[90sDBZ]

Thank goodness that they changed it. It would be so anticlimactic if the final FUSED villain of the arc could just be defeated with a little bit of teamwork.

I agree with this completely. Most of the fighting in the arc up to this point has been basic teamwork, so seeing it end like that would be very anticlimactic.

[MKCSTEALTH]

He wasn't planned from the start, but I'm glad he was added. Though I both hate and love the Potara retcon. I hate it because they established back in the U6 Tournament the dragonballs could be used to defuse them. So maybe have Vegito run out of power because his new fused body isn't used to the power of God Ki. Then have him go back to the past and see everyone's reactions.

On the other hand, a no longer permanent Potara means the potential for more Potara fused characters to come in games and future series

[batistabus]

Vegetto was not in Toriyama's outline.

Toei decided to include him. In order to not disappoint fans, Toyotaro included him as well.

[goku the krump dancer]

Vegito was never meant to appear, he was reintroduced only because he is popular. In the original draft, Fused Zamasu, while extremely powerful, would have ultimately been defeated by the combined strength of SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta.

Thank goodness that they changed it. It would be so anticlimactic if the final FUSED villain of the arc could just be defeated with a little bit of teamwork.

It would've made more sense if it happened the way they originally intended. Zamasu fusing with Goku shouldnt have put him anywhere NEAR Vegetto's level especially not at BLUE. While Goku, Vegeta and Black were more or less even, Zamasu in his own body could barely stack up to SSJ2 Goku even with him being a Kaio Prodigy. That's like saying that all Goku had to do in the Boo Arc was fuse with Kaioshin and that resulting merger would be enough to contest with Gohan Boo or Gotenks Boo, which even at hypothetical SS3 it still wouldnt be enough just off the fact that Shin was no match for SS1 Goku, let alone anything remotely higher than that.

Even if they still felt compelled to include Vegetto into the mix, he should have only been Fighting at either Regular God or even SS3 because at that point in the story, SS3 shouldn't NEARLY as taxing on the body as it was in the Boo arc. It would've made more sense for him to defuse as he transformed into blue and attempted to deal a finishing blow ala Final Kamehameha or whatever. Vegetto Blue should have never saw any real action going by logical power scaling.

[ankokudaishogun]

Vegito was never meant to appear, he was reintroduced only because he is popular. In the original draft, Fused Zamasu, while extremely powerful, would have ultimately been defeated by the combined strength of SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta.

The Zamasus didn't fuse in the original draft: the idea was that Black would end up being about as strong as Beerus, basically showing what SSG\Blue Goku's full divine might would resemble, but would be defeated by the Goku&Vegeta combo Wish suggested earlier.
Toyotaro suggested putting in Vegito as fanservice, but "GoD" Black wouldn't be enough of a threat to force them to collaborate, so they end up fusing the two Zamasu making Fused Zamasu: stronger than Goku or Vegeta and immortal to boot.

[Nokra]

Vegito was never meant to appear, he was reintroduced only because he is popular. In the original draft, Fused Zamasu, while extremely powerful, would have ultimately been defeated by the combined strength of SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta.

Thank goodness that they changed it. It would be so anticlimactic if the final FUSED villain of the arc could just be defeated with a little bit of teamwork.

It would've made more sense if it happened the way they originally intended. Zamasu fusing with Goku shouldnt have put him anywhere NEAR Vegetto's level especially not at BLUE. While Goku, Vegeta and Black were more or less even, Zamasu in his own body could barely stack up to SSJ2 Goku even with him being a Kaio Prodigy. That's like saying that all Goku had to do in the Boo Arc was fuse with Kaioshin and that resulting merger would be enough to contest with Gohan Boo or Gotenks Boo, which even at hypothetical SS3 it still wouldnt be enough just off the fact that Shin was no match for SS1 Goku, let alone anything remotely higher than that.

Even if they still felt compelled to include Vegetto into the mix, he should have only been Fighting at either Regular God or even SS3 because at that point in the story, SS3 shouldn't NEARLY as taxing on the body as it was in the Boo arc. It would've made more sense for him to defuse as he transformed into blue and attempted to deal a finishing blow ala Final Kamehameha or whatever. Vegetto Blue should have never saw any real action going by logical power scaling.

Considering that potara fusion is the sum of each fusee plus multiplication of their power it makes since that they would become strong enough to match vegito especially after growing the purple arm. Just look at how strong Caulifla and Kale got when they became Kefla.

[Nokra]

Vegito was never meant to appear, he was reintroduced only because he is popular. In the original draft, Fused Zamasu, while extremely powerful, would have ultimately been defeated by the combined strength of SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta.

Thank goodness that they changed it. It would be so anticlimactic if the final FUSED villain of the arc could just be defeated with a little bit of teamwork.

It would've made more sense if it happened the way they originally intended. Zamasu fusing with Goku shouldnt have put him anywhere NEAR Vegetto's level especially not at BLUE. While Goku, Vegeta and Black were more or less even, Zamasu in his own body could barely stack up to SSJ2 Goku even with him being a Kaio Prodigy. That's like saying that all Goku had to do in the Boo Arc was fuse with Kaioshin and that resulting merger would be enough to contest with Gohan Boo or Gotenks Boo, which even at hypothetical SS3 it still wouldnt be enough just off the fact that Shin was no match for SS1 Goku, let alone anything remotely higher than that.

Even if they still felt compelled to include Vegetto into the mix, he should have only been Fighting at either Regular God or even SS3 because at that point in the story, SS3 shouldn't NEARLY as taxing on the body as it was in the Boo arc. It would've made more sense for him to defuse as he transformed into blue and attempted to deal a finishing blow ala Final Kamehameha or whatever. Vegetto Blue should have never saw any real action going by logical power scaling.

Considering that potara fusion is the sum of each fusee plus multiplication of their power it makes sense that they would become strong enough to match vegito especially after growing the purple arm. Just look at how strong Caulifla and Kale got when they became Kefla.

[goku the krump dancer]

Vegito was never meant to appear, he was reintroduced only because he is popular. In the original draft, Fused Zamasu, while extremely powerful, would have ultimately been defeated by the combined strength of SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta.

Thank goodness that they changed it. It would be so anticlimactic if the final FUSED villain of the arc could just be defeated with a little bit of teamwork.

It would've made more sense if it happened the way they originally intended. Zamasu fusing with Goku shouldnt have put him anywhere NEAR Vegetto's level especially not at BLUE. While Goku, Vegeta and Black were more or less even, Zamasu in his own body could barely stack up to SSJ2 Goku even with him being a Kaio Prodigy. That's like saying that all Goku had to do in the Boo Arc was fuse with Kaioshin and that resulting merger would be enough to contest with Gohan Boo or Gotenks Boo, which even at hypothetical SS3 it still wouldnt be enough just off the fact that Shin was no match for SS1 Goku, let alone anything remotely higher than that.

Even if they still felt compelled to include Vegetto into the mix, he should have only been Fighting at either Regular God or even SS3 because at that point in the story, SS3 shouldn't NEARLY as taxing on the body as it was in the Boo arc. It would've made more sense for him to defuse as he transformed into blue and attempted to deal a finishing blow ala Final Kamehameha or whatever. Vegetto Blue should have never saw any real action going by logical power scaling.

Considering that potara fusion is the sum of each fusee plus multiplication of their power it makes since that they would become strong enough to match vegito especially after growing the purple arm. Just look at how strong Caulifla and Kale got when they became Kefla.

The potora according to the Super Exciting Guide is juts A x B ( Person A multiplied by person B). If Black, Vegeta and Goku were 25s then regular Zamasu is at best maybe a 6-7.. 25 x 7 (Black fused with Zamasu) is just 175, while 25 x 25 ( Goku potara'd with Vegeta) is 625! While at face value the number gap might not seem that huge but remember, there doesn't have to be an enormous number gap in order for someone to be utterly dominated in a fight. In the Saiyan Arc Piccolo's BP was 3,200 while Nappa was 4,000 and Piccolo couldn't phase him. Kefla was super inflated too.. Needlessly at that. They were barely keeping up with SSJ2 Goku yet they fuse and can more or less one shot Goku at blue granted he was still a bit exhausted from his first run through with Ultra Instinct.

[Lord Beerus]

Vegetto appearing Super was 100% Toyotaro's idea. And the justification he provided was that given their current personalities in Super, it's likely that Goku and Vegeta wouldn't fuse after the Majin Boo arc. And he wanted to "meet fan's expectations." So he was thrown in as fan service. And because of this addition, Toriyama provided the change of the condition of the Potara to give it a one hour time limit.

[SupremeKai25]

If we go by Power Levels alone, then the protagonists wouldn't have had the chance to fuse in the first place, because Fused Zamasu would have easily defeated Goku in their beam struggle.

But ask yourself this: Which is more epic? Goku and Vegeta defeating Fused Zamasu, the final fused villain of the arc, by cooperating more? Vegito stomping Fused Zamasu so much that it is a onesided fight that lasts 10 seconds?

Or perhaps an actual titanic clash between two mighty fused beings?

Ultimately, the decision to include Vegito and make him equal or just slightly above Fused Zamasu was very good, because it gave us the chance to witness an amazing fight, one of Super's apex in terms of art and animation as well as tension, and such a thing wouldn't have been possible if the writers had taken the more logical yet boring route.

[Pokesamus217]

Vegetto appearing Super was 100% Toyotaro's idea. And the justification he provided was that given their current personalities in Super, it's likely that Goku and Vegeta wouldn't fuse after the Majin Boo arc. And he wanted to "meet fan's expectations." So he was thrown in as fan service. And because of this addition, Toriyama provided the change of the condition of the Potara to give it a one hour time limit.

I thought that the Potara always had the time limit (relative to Super) and that Goku and Vegeta were supposed to work together, until Zamasu’s time limit ran out.

[goku the krump dancer]

If we go by Power Levels alone, then the protagonists wouldn't have had the chance to fuse in the first place, because Fused Zamasu would have easily defeated Goku in their beam struggle.

But ask yourself this: Which is more epic? Goku and Vegeta defeating Fused Zamasu, the final fused villain of the arc, by cooperating more? Vegito stomping Fused Zamasu so much that it is a onesided fight that lasts 10 seconds?

Or perhaps an actual titanic clash between two mighty fused beings?

Ultimately, the decision to include Vegito and make him equal or just slightly above Fused Zamasu was very good, because it gave us the chance to witness an amazing fight, one of Super's apex in terms of art and animation as well as tension, and such a thing wouldn't have been possible if the writers had taken the more logical yet boring route.

You cant say one sided fights are boring when Everyone loves how Gogeta instant KO'ed Janemba.. Something can be "Epic" while still being coherent within the narrative of the story. Vegetto showing up and mauling Zamasu for a bit until he prematurely defused would've been perfect, similar to the manga. He was never meant to deal the finishing blow thus him defusing after humiliating Zamasu would add to the tension and thus put the characters in a "Now what" situation. That wouldnt take anything away from Zamasu while still keeping Vegetto feeling strong even with the Potara nerf.

Sacrificing Consistency with "OOOO That'd be cool" is something that every Dragon Ball story post Volume 42 of the manga is guilty of in some form or fashion.

[1345521]

If we go by Power Levels alone, then the protagonists wouldn't have had the chance to fuse in the first place, because Fused Zamasu would have easily defeated Goku in their beam struggle.

But ask yourself this: Which is more epic? Goku and Vegeta defeating Fused Zamasu, the final fused villain of the arc, by cooperating more? Vegito stomping Fused Zamasu so much that it is a onesided fight that lasts 10 seconds?

Or perhaps an actual titanic clash between two mighty fused beings?

Ultimately, the decision to include Vegito and make him equal or just slightly above Fused Zamasu was very good, because it gave us the chance to witness an amazing fight, one of Super's apex in terms of art and animation as well as tension, and such a thing wouldn't have been possible if the writers had taken the more logical yet boring route.

Just because the concept seems more epic dosent mean you reject the foundations of consistency and logic just so you can make it "epic" that's 101 bad writing and fan service which has stained modern dragon ball. If you wanted vegito and merged zamsu to have an epic clash as two beings, you'd have to logically write the story so it'd make sense and beleivable that such a fight could take place.

[Dbzk1999]

If we go by Power Levels alone, then the protagonists wouldn't have had the chance to fuse in the first place, because Fused Zamasu would have easily defeated Goku in their beam struggle.

But ask yourself this: Which is more epic? Goku and Vegeta defeating Fused Zamasu, the final fused villain of the arc, by cooperating more? Vegito stomping Fused Zamasu so much that it is a onesided fight that lasts 10 seconds?

Or perhaps an actual titanic clash between two mighty fused beings?

Ultimately, the decision to include Vegito and make him equal or just slightly above Fused Zamasu was very good, because it gave us the chance to witness an amazing fight, one of Super's apex in terms of art and animation as well as tension, and such a thing wouldn't have been possible if the writers had taken the more logical yet boring route.

Just because the concept seems more epic dosent mean you reject the foundations of consistency and logic just so you can make it "epic" that's 101 bad writing and fan service which has stained modern dragon ball. If you wanted vegito and merged zamsu to have an epic clash as two beings, you'd have to logically write the story so it'd make sense and beleivable that such a fight could take place.

It, was believable, goku injured merged Zamasu after sacrificing his arms to do it. Zamasu, in a fit of rage and anger, empowers himself with that lightning blast, making him strong enough that goku and vegeta needed to fuse.

What’s illogical about that? Goku got a shot on him, Zamasu gets pissed and powers up astronomically. Hell, he was already stomping goku and vegeta before goku got that Kamehameha in as well.