Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
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Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
SSJ4 is related to saiyan origins and mixes their primal Oozaru transformation with legendary Super Saiyan transformation making ultimate form.
God forms simply do not fit as ultimate form. God ki is something new to saiyans, something that has to be earned and what's more important - can be earned by ANYONE, not only saiyans. So answer is rather simple. SSJB is saiyan power mixed with additional god power that isn't exclusive to this race. It's a big improvement of saiyan power, but it's not natural evolution.
It doesn't really matter which form is stronger in this case, SSJ4 wins.
God forms simply do not fit as ultimate form. God ki is something new to saiyans, something that has to be earned and what's more important - can be earned by ANYONE, not only saiyans. So answer is rather simple. SSJB is saiyan power mixed with additional god power that isn't exclusive to this race. It's a big improvement of saiyan power, but it's not natural evolution.
It doesn't really matter which form is stronger in this case, SSJ4 wins.
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Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
Maybe none of them.
Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
SSJ4 is a decent concept that looks stupid. Okay you want to go for a monkey motif to harken back to Oozaru? Sounds sensible. Red fur, magic pants, eyeliners and 80's hair metal mane. Yeah it looks like someone was listening to too much Motley Crue
Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
The difference is that he didn't really use a bad image or bad lighting. You used an off model pick of Super Saiyan blue to show it was worse and then used a picture of SSJ4 that had darkened lighting and used the aura to overwhelm the aesthetic. Even in your picture for SSJ4 the reason it looks good is because the picture goes out of it's way to hide how busy the form is as opposed to accentuating it.Rakurai wrote:I can do this too with selective gifs.SuperNingenGod wrote:Super Saiyan Blue KK, the most aesthetically pleasing and potentially the most powerful state bar Ultra Instinct.
SSJ4 has a good concept but the execution looks terribly bad, eye liners, fur coat, magical clothes appear out of nowhere when transforming and that annoying tail are simply a joke.
Super Saiyan 4 the most awesome, ferocious, and creative form and potentially the most powerful state bar Ultra Instinct:
SSB has good concept with god ki but the recolor looks terribly bad and lazy, blue is an absolutely random hair color, doesn't match well with their clothes and that blob aura it emits is simply annoying.
Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
How is it not? It’s a slightly different shade of blue and he gets bulkier. Just like grade 2 is pretty much a bulkier SS1.PFM18 wrote:No, not really. It may aesthetically resemble it slightly, but it is otherwise not similar in any way.DragonBallFan wrote:All it is really is Second Grade Super Saiyan with God Power.PFM18 wrote:SSBE is the ultimate Saiyan transformation. Divine Ki combined with SSJ to form SSB, and then mutated to break the limits of that transformation. A literal divine transformation screams more "Ultimate" to me than being a monkey with red fur, even if the SSJ4 form is a more aesthetically creative transformation.
Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
That’s exactly what you did though. He was just doing the opposite to make a point. You picked a powerful picture of Blue with dynamic shading and using your own words, “using the aura to overwhelm the aesthetic. And then for SS4 you used a picture from one of the poorly drawn episodes.lancerman wrote:The difference is that he didn't really use a bad image or bad lighting. You used an off model pick of Super Saiyan blue to show it was worse and then used a picture of SSJ4 that had darkened lighting and used the aura to overwhelm the aesthetic. Even in your picture for SSJ4 the reason it looks good is because the picture goes out of it's way to hide how busy the form is as opposed to accentuating it.Rakurai wrote:I can do this too with selective gifs.SuperNingenGod wrote:Super Saiyan Blue KK, the most aesthetically pleasing and potentially the most powerful state bar Ultra Instinct.
SSJ4 has a good concept but the execution looks terribly bad, eye liners, fur coat, magical clothes appear out of nowhere when transforming and that annoying tail are simply a joke.
Super Saiyan 4 the most awesome, ferocious, and creative form and potentially the most powerful state bar Ultra Instinct:
SSB has good concept with god ki but the recolor looks terribly bad and lazy, blue is an absolutely random hair color, doesn't match well with their clothes and that blob aura it emits is simply annoying.
Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
Grade 2 is just a reflection of using Ki to increase your muscles/brute strength, where as SSBE is a complete evolution of the form by breaking one's limits, that increases overall power dozens of times, rather than Grade 2 which only increases power marginally over Grade 1. In concept, they aren't similar at all. "Grade 2 with God power" is false.Dbzfan94 wrote:How is it not? It’s a slightly different shade of blue and he gets bulkier. Just like grade 2 is pretty much a bulkier SS1.PFM18 wrote:No, not really. It may aesthetically resemble it slightly, but it is otherwise not similar in any way.DragonBallFan wrote: All it is really is Second Grade Super Saiyan with God Power.
They aren't even really similar aesthetically, Grade 2 just makes you more muscular while SSBE changes the color of your hair, the aura's color, the nature of the aura, and most importantly, it's most defining physical feature is that it adds pupils to Vegeta's eyes.
Spoiler:
Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
Are we looking at the same gifs? The person I originally responded literally used a gif with SSB-KK's red-blue aura to validate his "aesthetic" claim. Then used an off-model of SSJ4 Vegeta reverting back to base to show it was way worse. I just did the same thing he did to counter his point and show how stupid it was to compare them like that.lancerman wrote:
The difference is that he didn't really use a bad image or bad lighting. You used an off model pick of Super Saiyan blue to show it was worse and then used a picture of SSJ4 that had darkened lighting and used the aura to overwhelm the aesthetic. Even in your picture for SSJ4 the reason it looks good is because the picture goes out of it's way to hide how busy the form is as opposed to accentuating it.
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SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!
Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
Hope you know that that is a different person. He wasn’t the one that initially posted those gifsDbzfan94 wrote:That’s exactly what you did though. He was just doing the opposite to make a point. You picked a powerful picture of Blue with dynamic shading and using your own words, “using the aura to overwhelm the aesthetic. And then for SS4 you used a picture from one of the poorly drawn episodes.lancerman wrote:The difference is that he didn't really use a bad image or bad lighting. You used an off model pick of Super Saiyan blue to show it was worse and then used a picture of SSJ4 that had darkened lighting and used the aura to overwhelm the aesthetic. Even in your picture for SSJ4 the reason it looks good is because the picture goes out of it's way to hide how busy the form is as opposed to accentuating it.Rakurai wrote:
I can do this too with selective gifs.
Super Saiyan 4 the most awesome, ferocious, and creative form and potentially the most powerful state bar Ultra Instinct:
SSB has good concept with god ki but the recolor looks terribly bad and lazy, blue is an absolutely random hair color, doesn't match well with their clothes and that blob aura it emits is simply annoying.
Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
Oh, my mistake then. but still.Dbzk1999 wrote: Hope you know that that is a different person. He wasn’t the one that initially posted those gifs
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Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
What are you talking about? The bulky muscles, the hair, this form screams Second Grade Super Saiyan, they just probably couldn't come up with another design, so they slapped a different aura and color over Second Grade and called it "Super Saiyan Blue Evolution".PFM18 wrote:Grade 2 is just a reflection of using Ki to increase your muscles/brute strength, where as SSBE is a complete evolution of the form by breaking one's limits, that increases overall power dozens of times, rather than Grade 2 which only increases power marginally over Grade 1. In concept, they aren't similar at all. "Grade 2 with God power" is false.Dbzfan94 wrote:How is it not? It’s a slightly different shade of blue and he gets bulkier. Just like grade 2 is pretty much a bulkier SS1.PFM18 wrote:
No, not really. It may aesthetically resemble it slightly, but it is otherwise not similar in any way.
They aren't even really similar aesthetically, Grade 2 just makes you more muscular while SSBE changes the color of your hair, the aura's color, the nature of the aura, and most importantly, it's most defining physical feature is that it adds pupils to Vegeta's eyes.
Let's take a look;
https://imgur.com/a/4XHmzJq Take note of the hair and muscle mass.
https://imgur.com/a/NV8dQqc A bit of the hair is cut off here but you can clearly see a striking resemblance between the two forms, especially in the muscle mass.
https://imgur.com/a/eCL61QM Taking a look at the original designs for Super Vegeta,
https://imgur.com/a/yrrc4Ov and compare it to the Super Saiyan Blue Evolution designs. Because of the style of art, they don't line up here completely, but you can still see that they are pretty much the same thing.
https://imgur.com/a/2rXRqsS
https://imgur.com/a/I6q1kX5]
Overall yeah, if the creators say it's a new form then I guess it's a new form, but the visuals are pretty much Super Saiyan Grade Two with SSJ3 eyes blue. When I first saw the transformation I thought Vegeta had actually just used Grade Two with Super Saiyan God. And if I recall correctly I remember quite a few people thinking the same.
Not to mention Second Grade Super Saiyan was also a slightly different color than regular Super Saiyan, Vegeta becoming more redish on his skin and his aura and hair becoming more yellow golden.
Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
We all know the real answer to this question.
Spoiler:
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Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
Again, the muscles are the least defining factor. And I was mostly talking about from a concept point of view, it is absolutely nothing like Grade 2. Aesthetically it slightly resembles Grade 2, but they only have the "muscles" in common. You have the pupils, the new color, the new aura, and the muscles where as Grade 2 you just have the muscles.DragonBallFan wrote:What are you talking about? The bulky muscles, the hair, this form screams Second Grade Super Saiyan, they just probably couldn't come up with another design, so they slapped a different aura and color over Second Grade and called it "Super Saiyan Blue Evolution".
That isn't even the final design, and not the design they went with. IIRC, that is a concept that was pulled up after the fact and not entirely the one they went with. Obviously, the hair is still the same as SSB.and compare it to the Super Saiyan Blue Evolution designs. Because of the style of art, they don't line up here completely, but you can still see that they are pretty much the same thing.
Again, aesthetically, there's a slight resemblance. But conceptually behind the forms they have absolutely nothing in common, and there's no reason to believe that Evolution is "just SSB Grade 2."Overall yeah, if the creators say it's a new form then I guess it's a new form, but the visuals are pretty much Super Saiyan Grade Two with SSJ3 eyes blue. When I first saw the transformation I thought Vegeta had actually just used Grade Two with Super Saiyan God. And if I recall correctly I remember quite a few people thinking the same.
Spoiler:
Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
That is the final design. It's production art that they include in the pamphlets with the DVDs in Japan, not concept art.PFM18 wrote: That isn't even the final design, and not the design they went with. IIRC, that is a concept that was pulled up after the fact and not entirely the one they went with.
Anyway, it's pretty obvious that they took some aesthetic inspiration from Grade 2. Definitely more than just a passing resemblance there, pupils or not.
Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
It clearly isn't what they went with obviously because it still has normal SSB hair. But yeah, it does look a little like Grade 2. Still very different considering Evo changes the hair color, the aura, and adds pupils in adidtion to what Grade 2 does. In concept they aren't similar in any respect, though.Marlowe89 wrote:That is the final design. It's production art that they include in the pamphlets with the DVDs in Japan, not concept art.PFM18 wrote: That isn't even the final design, and not the design they went with. IIRC, that is a concept that was pulled up after the fact and not entirely the one they went with.
Anyway, it's pretty obvious that they took some aesthetic inspiration from Grade 2. Definitely more than just a passing resemblance there, pupils or not.
Spoiler:
Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
It's not quite that different. The anime heavily uses highlights and lowlights to give the hair a shinier texture, which results in a different shade, but most official artwork used in merchandising, promotional material, etc. either displays the same color as Yamamuro's standard design art for the form or something closer to it.PFM18 wrote: It clearly isn't what they went with obviously because it still has normal SSB hair.
I'd say the resemblance is more than "a little". Unlike colors or auras, this stuff comprises the structural shape and body of the design.
Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
I'd say the better on is SSJ4 because it combines the power of the Oozaru, the full potential of a Saiyan and the power of a Super Saiyan. 'Nuff said.
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Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
The hair in some shots might look like normal SSJB, but that's the animation and art problems. The hair is bigger and sharper.PFM18 wrote:It clearly isn't what they went with obviously because it still has normal SSB hair. But yeah, it does look a little like Grade 2. Still very different considering Evo changes the hair color, the aura, and adds pupils in adidtion to what Grade 2 does. In concept they aren't similar in any respect, though.Marlowe89 wrote:That is the final design. It's production art that they include in the pamphlets with the DVDs in Japan, not concept art.PFM18 wrote: That isn't even the final design, and not the design they went with. IIRC, that is a concept that was pulled up after the fact and not entirely the one they went with.
Anyway, it's pretty obvious that they took some aesthetic inspiration from Grade 2. Definitely more than just a passing resemblance there, pupils or not.
Let me ask you this: What's the difference between SSJ and SSJ2?
Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
The primary differences are a slight change in the hairstyle, a slight increase in muscle tone and the addition of bio electricity in the aura.DragonBallFan wrote:The hair in some shots might look like normal SSJB, but that's the animation and art problems. The hair is bigger and sharper.PFM18 wrote:It clearly isn't what they went with obviously because it still has normal SSB hair. But yeah, it does look a little like Grade 2. Still very different considering Evo changes the hair color, the aura, and adds pupils in adidtion to what Grade 2 does. In concept they aren't similar in any respect, though.Marlowe89 wrote:
That is the final design. It's production art that they include in the pamphlets with the DVDs in Japan, not concept art.
Anyway, it's pretty obvious that they took some aesthetic inspiration from Grade 2. Definitely more than just a passing resemblance there, pupils or not.
Let me ask you this: What's the difference between SSJ and SSJ2?
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Re: Which Would Be The Better Ultimate Saiyan Form? SSJ4 or PSSJB?
I wanted them to answer thatHulk10 wrote:The primary differences are a slight change in the hairstyle, a slight increase in muscle tone and the addition of bio electricity in the aura.DragonBallFan wrote:The hair in some shots might look like normal SSJB, but that's the animation and art problems. The hair is bigger and sharper.PFM18 wrote:
It clearly isn't what they went with obviously because it still has normal SSB hair. But yeah, it does look a little like Grade 2. Still very different considering Evo changes the hair color, the aura, and adds pupils in adidtion to what Grade 2 does. In concept they aren't similar in any respect, though.
Let me ask you this: What's the difference between SSJ and SSJ2?