Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

[Li'l Lemmy]

It's funny we're getting so many female fighters in Dragonball now. For the entire span of DBZ, all we got was 18, but she was only a villain for a short time. Even in all the movies the only female fighter I remember is one of Bojack's henchmen and she barely did anything.

I also really like that there are more female fighters in the battle-lines. Caulifla has been one of the shining stars of this entire arc.

Caulifla is absolute shit garbage and I can't stand her "is it about the tingly back??" magical Mary Sue character writing. I realize that we need yet more saiyans all the time forever, but holy fuck do I hope we get a break from her during the next arc.

That being said, it is certainly gratifying to see that the gender balance has shifted in DragonBall, or at least during this arc. I would have been fairly dismayed if a multiverse tournament did the opposite and showed a male-centric talent pool with disproportionately few females.

[FortuneSSJ]

Ok episode. I have to admit it was better than I expected.

As always, Toei did a fantastic job on remembering characters techniques. I wasn't expecting Roshi to try hypnotize someone like he did to Goku in 21st Tenkaichi Budokai.
I don't like how Ganos was defeated by him though, especially when he had such a cool transformation. Roshi could still shine by beating other character instead of him.

Zeno/Quitela/Beerus scenes were funny.

The ending was emotional. That soundtrack never fails!

NEP looks okay.

[Ranmaru Rei]

Videl had a potential, but it was wasted. Yeah, DB was definitely sausagefest. I'm really glad that gender balance is finally shifted.

[DragonBallFoodie]

That was a good spotlight for Master Roshi, showing off both his comedic and cunning sides.

He intimidated Caway into throwing herself off the stage. It's using her own seduction technique on her.

He dealt with Dercori using the Mafuba, which caused a debate.
It was pretty cool how he showed off his cunning, pointing out that his teammates are strong enough not to need their wits too much, while he compensates by outsmarting his opponents.

And finally, he beat down Ganos in a great fight.
Not sure why Ganos turned into Howard the Duck though.

[RedHeat]

It's funny we're getting so many female fighters in Dragonball now. For the entire span of DBZ, all we got was 18, but she was only a villain for a short time. Even in all the movies the only female fighter I remember is one of Bojack's henchmen and she barely did anything.

I also really like that there are more female fighters in the battle-lines. Caulifla has been one of the shining stars of this entire arc.

Caulifla is absolute shit garbage and I can't stand her "is it about the tingly back??" magical Mary Sue character writing. I realize that we need yet more saiyans all the time forever, but holy fuck do I hope we get a break from her during the next arc.

That being said, it is certainly gratifying to see that the gender balance has shifted in DragonBall, or at least during this arc. I would have been fairly dismayed if a multiverse tournament did the opposite and showed a male-centric talent pool with disproportionately few females.

I'm hoping she gets more spotlight in the next arc, as well as the other U6 Saiyans. They need more development as their fanbase grows.

[Li'l Lemmy]

I also really like that there are more female fighters in the battle-lines. Caulifla has been one of the shining stars of this entire arc.

Caulifla is absolute shit garbage and I can't stand her "is it about the tingly back??" magical Mary Sue character writing. I realize that we need yet more saiyans all the time forever, but holy fuck do I hope we get a break from her during the next arc.

That being said, it is certainly gratifying to see that the gender balance has shifted in DragonBall, or at least during this arc. I would have been fairly dismayed if a multiverse tournament did the opposite and showed a male-centric talent pool with disproportionately few females.

I'm hoping she gets more spotlight in the next arc, as well as the other U6 Saiyans. They need more development as their fanbase grows.

This may just be a sore spot with me- in fact, I'm sure it is- but how about instead of focusing all our energy on the shiny new object we use the next arc to put some development into characters who are actually from the original work and badly need it? I realize that Goten and Trunks don't exactly have a hardcore die-for-them fanbase, but if Goku is telling them to keep up their training at the end of EoZ then they should be made to be... something before then. Anything. How DBS has virtually ignored them all the way past 100 episodes is ridiculous.

To me. To me. Gotta keep telling myself that.

[precita]

Goten and Trunks are likely being saved for an EOZ story. There's no way Toei will ignore them when they're adults.

[Li'l Lemmy]

Goten and Trunks are likely being saved for an EOZ story. There's no way Toei will ignore them when they're adults.

All well and good if true, but why does that mean they seemingly can't be allowed to contribute at all until then?

Why does Vegeta writing them off as being too individually weak to participate in the tournament against U6 not lead to them training for their next chance, instead of getting dick for screentime and being excluded for two tournaments in a row? Why is Goten's biggest contribution to Super thus far that he is killed by Freeza and Black? Why do Vegeta and Trunks have virtually no scenes together at all? Even when they are thrown a bone, it's not to grow or develop but to job to Copy-Vegeta until Goku shows up out of nowhere.

The best moment Trunks has had was smacking some sense into his older self. That was great. Basically non-existent otherwise, and Goten has no equivalent moment at all.

I'm not saying that they have to be a primary focus. They don't even have to be relevant. They just have to be there. But at this stage they barely exist, and for me that's annoying. I get that other people's mileage when it comes to Goten and Trunks will vary, but I don't see why they can't at least have something to DO.

There's not even any sort of guarantee that DBS will ever go beyond EoZ. So for me a hypothetical is a cold comfort.

[Zephyr]

They're watching #17's island right now. As everyone was leaving, we saw some poachers in a submarine, clearly setting up a "Goten and Trunks fight the poachers" 'filler' episode.

[fadeddreams5]

Goten and Trunks are likely being saved for an EOZ story. There's no way Toei will ignore them when they're adults.

That's literally what they did in GT. Well, maybe not with Trunks, but he was such a bland character, and nothing like his kid self, they might as well have.

[MainJPW]

clearly setting up a "Goten and Trunks fight the poachers" 'filler' episode.

Don't forget Marron, 18 called her "tough".

[Li'l Lemmy]

They're watching #17's island right now. As everyone was leaving, we saw some poachers in a submarine, clearly setting up a "Goten and Trunks fight the poachers" 'filler' episode.

That was my impression, at least. I guess they're waiting for a timely break in the tournament action to look in on the kids.

That's literally what they did in GT. Well, maybe not with Trunks, but he was such a bland character, and nothing like his kid self, they might as well have.

Present Trunks in GT is Future Trunks Lite. It's dreadful. There is no reason he should have evolved into that. I actually really enjoy the contrast between the carefully measured hope of the more mature future Trunks and the arrogant, bratty attitude of the present kid version, so having the latter completely disappear to become a watered-down version of the former was a disappointment.

Don't even get me started on Goten.

If DBS does go beyond EoZ, I would hope that they learned from at least those mistakes.

Don't forget Marron, 18 called her "tough".

I'm all for her getting some kind of development too. She's even more of a blank slate than Goten.

[Acetona]

Things I Disliked:

-Roshi vs. Ganos. Ganos is the captain for Universe 4, right? And Roshi is (supposedly) the weakest member of Universe 7. So how weak does Ganos have to be for Roshi to be able to even damage him!? If you think back to times like Krillin vs. Perfect Cell or the Z-Fighters vs. Super Perfect Cell, Roshi shouldn't even be able to touch this guy unless he's actually pathetically weak. Basically, three of Universe 4's fighters have to be really, REALLY weak or Roshi is somehow much, MUCH stronger than in Z for this episode to make a lick of sense in-universe.
-So I stated that I liked 95% of the "Roshi is dead" scene. I hated that they revived him. If he stayed dead, I could chalk this episode up to trying to give Roshi a good showing before his passing, and it would have left me in a better mood. However, they pulled the cheap revive card and soured the episode for me. I almost bought into the moment too, which left me even more salty. Not gonna lie, this left me a little irritated, and TV shows rarely upset me (seeing as they're fiction and all).


Overall, I feel like this episode isn't that bad, but it did several things that really irritated me. Pathetically bad power scaling, a stupid gag ring-out with Caway and a cheapened emotional scene really brought things down for me. If you get past these three things, it's a fine episode. I just couldn't get past them personally.

Except for the gag ring-out, I agree with you. It's as I like to say, when Super walks 1 step forward, it walks back 2 steps...

[precita]

Goten and Trunks are likely being saved for an EOZ story. There's no way Toei will ignore them when they're adults.

That's literally what they did in GT. Well, maybe not with Trunks, but he was such a bland character, and nothing like his kid self, they might as well have.

Which is why people should get the GT portrayals out of their minds.

Same for the people who don't like Uub or Pan, I'm sure if they're written in Super they'll be a lot better written or likeable than they were, same for Trunks/Goten as adults.

[PsionicWarrior]

Goten and Trunks are likely being saved for an EOZ story. There's no way Toei will ignore them when they're adults.

Until they grow up

[Jodaku]

Dragon Ball Super is a curious beast.

A lot of the time, it feels underwhelming, but it has been fun having new Dragon Ball material to watch every week, which as a whole might not always live up to expectations, but is littered with nice little character moments that makes the surrounding mediocre stuff worthwhile.

This episode will definitely go down as one of my favourites of Super. We kinda ran the gauntlet of Muten Roshi's character throughout the episode, which was an awesome nod to the first half of Dragon Ball when the character was more active. He really was an anchor to the first half of the series in that he was able to embody both the ridiculous slapstick elements of the story and somehow switch without losing a beat to the serious martial artist that brought both dramatic and emotional weight to the franchise, that allowed you to take the series seriously when it needed you to.

Seeing Beerus respect for Roshi increase throughout the episode was an awesome touch, and seeing Goku showing any kind of primal emotion outside of anger, especially given how emotionally detached he usually is, is always going get me reaching for the tissues.

It doesn't happen as often as I would ideally like, but when Super gets it right, it is often a franchise highlight. This episode (and especially the end) is one of them.

[kidhero1000]

Nice episode but the real treat is the Sniper Ghost Warrior crossover next week. Can't wait for one of Uni 7 member to take a headshot

[nato25]

Nice episode but the real treat is the Sniper Ghost Warrior crossover next week. Can't wait for one of Uni 7 member to take a headshot

Definitely an interesting premise for Dragon Ball. Don't think we've ever dealt with a hidden sniper before.

Another pro for episode 105 is that it really rewards you for having watched OG Dragon Ball. We seem so far detached from that but it's still essential to know nearly all of that story to get the most out of Super and I love that.

[AgitoZ]

Oh he wrote this episode, now I could see why people liked him,he truly understand Roshi character

Well, some kind of dislike what he did to Tien. He also wrote Episode 90 where Tien was more.....passive than usual.

King Ryu remains my favorite of Super's five writers.

My favorite remains Atsuhiro Tomioka, although King Ryu is in the top three.

Ryu's emotional stuff (that Gokû and Piccolo and baby Pan episode where Gokû temporarily lost his ability to fly/use ki, this week's Roshi episode, I think they also did the one where Vegeta makes that really good speech to Gokû Black about Gokû being more than a body) is what I really like about their work.

Tomioka did a really good episode recently that I liked. I'm guessing he's writing the upcoming special and maybe that's why he's been gone more often lately. They also have him doing some One Piece now too.

He also did the episode where 18 is lambasting Kuririn really hard after he saved her. King Ryu is really hit or miss.

I'd say all the writers are but Yoshitaka Toshio seems like the most consistent. If anything it seems like the show needs a head writer who can help keep better consistency. Maybe Toriyama's outlines are supposed to be that.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

Episode for the most part was pretty awesome, and Ganos really gives off the Seiken Densetsu/Legend of Mana vibe when he transformed! Please tell me I'm not the only one who thought this?!
The ending was pretty emotional, but I was also hoping more from the Ganos fight...