Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Individual discussions for each episode of Dragon Ball Super.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Noah
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8160
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:56 pm
Location: Virtual World

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Noah » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:28 pm

Zephyr wrote:They're watching #17's island right now. As everyone was leaving, we saw some poachers in a submarine, clearly setting up a "Goten and Trunks fight the poachers" 'filler' episode.
I don't think that would happen, I mean a whole episoded dedicated to Goten and Trunks in the middle of the ToP? Lame.
乃亜

Top 10 DB/Z/GT Songs

Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?

DragonBallLove
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 294
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:34 pm

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by DragonBallLove » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:50 pm

Scorpio Kardia wrote:So Caway jumped out of the ring because she thought that if Roshi raped her she wouldn't be able to get married? Wow...whoever wrote that segment is a real winner. Talk about backwards, it's such an absurd mentality even if it's meant as a joke.
I really love sexual backwardness as absurd humor. The ridiculization (because it is that) feels so demeaning to those still harboring that despicable views, I find that refreshing.

User avatar
Metrite
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:00 am

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Metrite » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:23 pm

I guess now Tenshinhan and Freeza are the only ones left that need a big focus on them before everybody has had their "shine time" in this tourney.

When Roshi used the Mafuuba in this episode, two things sprung to mind. First, wouldn't it be possible to use to Mafuuba to simply send an opponent off stage as if aiming for an off-stage container and thus simply eliminate them without taking unnecessary risks by using an item? Also, back when Goku learned the technique, wouldn't it have been a better idea to just give Goku a container like that one with the seal already inscribed on it? Then they wouldn't have to worry about him goofing up like he did when given a container with the tag sold separately! :lol:

User avatar
gofishus
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:59 pm
Contact:

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by gofishus » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:36 pm

Ranmaru Rei wrote:Videl had a potential, but it was wasted. Yeah, DB was definitely sausagefest. I'm really glad that gender balance is finally shifted.
Actually, although the main / strongest characters in Dragonball have been mostly male (and that remains true), DB/DBZ has always shown strong female characters since the beginning:

Bulma
Chi Chi
Launch
Mai
Android 18
Videl
Pan

Tell me if these aren't some of the strongest female characters you'll find in any anime.

User avatar
Basako
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1008
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:32 pm

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Basako » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:53 pm

Scorpio Kardia wrote:So Caway jumped out of the ring because she thought that if Roshi raped her she wouldn't be able to get married? Wow...whoever wrote that segment is a real winner. Talk about backwards, it's such an absurd mentality even if it's meant as a joke.
This was rare as Hell, I'm trying to make sense of it, but I don't see any. First looks it's all about him controlling his sexual desires, but instead, he ends up implying that he wants to fuck her even more. If it's not that, Caway acts as if it was, covering herself and escaping to the extent of jumping from the arena forgetting her life and universe are on stake. Then she says something about not marrying?!? Crazy stuff, odd writing.

So, to the point. Did she think Roshi was going to rape her? Worse, was he going to do it? I don't get this part.
Heno heno kappa!

HeroR
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8306
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:28 pm

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by HeroR » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:15 am

AgitoZ wrote: He also did the episode where 18 is lambasting Kuririn really hard after he saved her. King Ryu is really hit or miss.

I'd say all the writers are but Yoshitaka Toshio seems like the most consistent. If anything it seems like the show needs a head writer who can help keep better consistency. Maybe Toriyama's outlines are supposed to be that.
Sounds like 18 to me.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

Tombstone1988
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:18 pm

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Tombstone1988 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:44 am

Basako wrote:
Scorpio Kardia wrote:So Caway jumped out of the ring because she thought that if Roshi raped her she wouldn't be able to get married? Wow...whoever wrote that segment is a real winner. Talk about backwards, it's such an absurd mentality even if it's meant as a joke.
This was rare as Hell, I'm trying to make sense of it, but I don't see any. First looks it's all about him controlling his sexual desires, but instead, he ends up implying that he wants to fuck her even more. If it's not that, Caway acts as if it was, covering herself and escaping to the extent of jumping from the arena forgetting her life and universe are on stake. Then she says something about not marrying?!? Crazy stuff, odd writing.

So, to the point. Did she think Roshi was going to rape her? Worse, was he going to do it? I don't get this part.
Let me try to explain it. In traditional times, as well as in some modern more conservative-leaning cultures, the values which individuals looked for in a potential partner were/are a little different. One of those that was held in high regard for women was chastity. A pure maiden was always seen as having "more worth" (it sounds stupid even typing it...) than one without her "maidenhood," so to speak. So, when Caway states that she'll be "undesirable as a wife" (or however the subs state it), she means that if she's raped she'll lose her purity.

So, the the point, yes, she thought he was going to rape her. As for Roshi, I don't think he was actually going to do it. It was likely more of an intimidation tactic, played up as part of a gag that I didn't personally enjoy.
"If you notice this and understand that it's flawed and just don't let it bother you, that's perfectly fine. But enjoying a flawed movie and calling a movie flawless are two completely different things."

-Adam from YourMovieSucksDOTorg
(Replace "movie" with "DBS episode" and that's pretty much my thoughts in regards to DBS critique)

User avatar
Basako
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1008
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:32 pm

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Basako » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:01 am

Tombstone1988 wrote: Let me try to explain it. In traditional times, as well as in some modern more conservative-leaning cultures, the values which individuals looked for in a potential partner were/are a little different. One of those that was held in high regard for women was chastity. A pure maiden was always seen as having "more worth" (it sounds stupid even typing it...) than one without her "maidenhood," so to speak. So, when Caway states that she'll be "undesirable as a wife" (or however the subs state it), she means that if she's raped she'll lose her purity.

So, the the point, yes, she thought he was going to rape her. As for Roshi, I don't think he was actually going to do it. It was likely more of an intimidation tactic, played up as part of a gag that I didn't personally enjoy.
Yeah, I'll go with this. Obviously Roshi is not going to rape a girl, so trying to intimidate her is the best we can read in this scene. The first part with her seducing him and him almost losing control but overcoming it, I think it was fine and fun, but how the whole thing ended, I didn't like it.
Heno heno kappa!

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3745
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Miracles » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:33 am

I didn't feel anything for Roshi cause I knew he wasn't going to die.
I do acknowledge his combat skill.

User avatar
Taidow
Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:17 pm

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Taidow » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:05 am

Something that I thought of after hearing someone complain that death was not a big deal in Dragonball so Roshi dying didn't feel important.

I agree that death is more of an inconvenience now, however. Would Shenron or Porunga be powerful enough to revive someone who died outside their universe in a world of void? Maybe the Super Dragon Balls would, however, who knows what the one wish would be once U7 wins.
ブラストバーン > みずしゅ りけん
効果はバツグン

Tombstone1988
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:18 pm

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Tombstone1988 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:18 am

Basako wrote:Yeah, I'll go with this. Obviously Roshi is not going to rape a girl, so trying to intimidate her is the best we can read in this scene. The first part with her seducing him and him almost losing control but overcoming it, I think it was fine and fun, but how the whole thing ended, I didn't like it.
I agree, the first part was fine, but the resolution to the scene bothered me as well.
"If you notice this and understand that it's flawed and just don't let it bother you, that's perfectly fine. But enjoying a flawed movie and calling a movie flawless are two completely different things."

-Adam from YourMovieSucksDOTorg
(Replace "movie" with "DBS episode" and that's pretty much my thoughts in regards to DBS critique)

User avatar
Zephyr
I Live Here
Posts: 4021
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:20 pm

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Zephyr » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:35 am

Noah wrote:
Zephyr wrote:They're watching #17's island right now. As everyone was leaving, we saw some poachers in a submarine, clearly setting up a "Goten and Trunks fight the poachers" 'filler' episode.
I don't think that would happen, I mean a whole episoded dedicated to Goten and Trunks in the middle of the ToP? Lame.
Something being lame doesn't mean Toei would avoid doing it.

On the contrary, Super is filled to the brim with lame decisions. I'd even call that one of its defining characteristics.

User avatar
Asura
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1919
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:53 pm

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Asura » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:17 am

HeroR wrote:
Asura wrote:
Potanical Pardon wrote:I haven't seen Goku give a shit about someone like that since he was a kid.
Yeah, Super is pretty awful at giving Goku character development or sometimes even with writing him in character, but this is finally some legitimate development. I always really wondered how Goku felt about Master Roshi, if he just viewed him as a friend and master or as more like a father, and I was happy to see it confirmed in this episode it's more like the latter which is especially telling given Goku doesn't really even show that kind of emotion towards his actual family.
You just have to watched the King Piccolo Saga to know that and he wanted to kill Black for murdering an alternate version of his family.
Not really. There was a lot more emotional a reaction here. Also, wanting to kill Black for murdering his family wasn't really that big of a moment IMO, felt too rushed and forced.

HeroR
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8306
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:28 pm

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by HeroR » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:20 am

Asura wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Asura wrote:
Yeah, Super is pretty awful at giving Goku character development or sometimes even with writing him in character, but this is finally some legitimate development. I always really wondered how Goku felt about Master Roshi, if he just viewed him as a friend and master or as more like a father, and I was happy to see it confirmed in this episode it's more like the latter which is especially telling given Goku doesn't really even show that kind of emotion towards his actual family.
You just have to watched the King Piccolo Saga to know that and he wanted to kill Black for murdering an alternate version of his family.
Not really. There was a lot more emotional a reaction here. Also, wanting to kill Black for murdering his family wasn't really that big of a moment IMO, felt too rushed and forced.
Doesn't undermine that it shows that Goku cared about his family since he got mad over Black killing a version of his family and was still made even when he saw his family safe and sound. And I am not sure how it was force.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

User avatar
Asura
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1919
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:53 pm

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Asura » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:24 am

Nickolaidas wrote:
mAcChaos wrote: You have to let go of comparing power levels like DBZ. Super is basically its own separate thing. It's never going to be the same.
This. THIS. THIS!!! A THOUSAND TIMES THIS!

It is obvious that Super's writers don't want to follow PLs to the letter. Roshi is weaker compared to the main cast but has many tricks and experience. So everytime Roshi fights on Super you immediately think that it's going to be a 'brains vs brawn' match, not a 'PL:137 vs PL:10 trillion'. It just doesn't work that way anymore.

The sooner folks accept this, the more enjoyable Super will become to them.
It's not even about power levels dude, I really wish people would stop saying that, it's just about power consistency. Looking at what's on the screen. Super's logic is literally A > B and B > C but C > A. It shows one strong character fighting another, and then it shows a weaker fighter fighting that guy at the same level. It makes no sense and Super has a habit of not making any sense with it's power relativity. It doesn't have anything to do with numbers and all about how they are constantly contradicting themselves.

User avatar
KidGoku>3
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:07 pm

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by KidGoku>3 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:37 am

Goku only cares about fighting..../s. :angel:

Nice episode brought me back to the trio training together with the first DB. Also nice to see what I always believed Goku cares about others more than fighting. That was always obvious with the sacrifices he made but its been a while since they explored that side again.

User avatar
Eternal Super Saiyan
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:18 am
Location: Oregon, United States

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Eternal Super Saiyan » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:41 am

This sort of felt like a fan service type episode but I was entertained by the end of it, I'm not really disappointed.

But then I asked myself how Roshi was even part of this tournament... (eventually the answer becomes clear)... (plot...)
In the end it somehow worked out though.. lol
"Lord Beers, what are those?? Do they taste like root beer?" ~ Goku

User avatar
Saturnine
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1515
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:45 am

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Saturnine » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:20 am

DragonBallLove wrote:
Scorpio Kardia wrote:So Caway jumped out of the ring because she thought that if Roshi raped her she wouldn't be able to get married? Wow...whoever wrote that segment is a real winner. Talk about backwards, it's such an absurd mentality even if it's meant as a joke.
I really love sexual backwardness as absurd humor. The ridiculization (because it is that) feels so demeaning to those still harboring that despicable views, I find that refreshing.
I love the phrasing of that :lol:

User avatar
SonReggie
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 146
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:51 am

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by SonReggie » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:47 am

Li'l Lemmy wrote:
precita wrote:Goten and Trunks are likely being saved for an EOZ story. There's no way Toei will ignore them when they're adults.
All well and good if true, but why does that mean they seemingly can't be allowed to contribute at all until then?

Why does Vegeta writing them off as being too individually weak to participate in the tournament against U6 not lead to them training for their next chance, instead of getting dick for screentime and being excluded for two tournaments in a row? Why is Goten's biggest contribution to Super thus far that he is killed by Freeza and Black? Why do Vegeta and Trunks have virtually no scenes together at all? Even when they are thrown a bone, it's not to grow or develop but to job to Copy-Vegeta until Goku shows up out of nowhere.

The best moment Trunks has had was smacking some sense into his older self. That was great. Basically non-existent otherwise, and Goten has no equivalent moment at all.

I'm not saying that they have to be a primary focus. They don't even have to be relevant. They just have to be there. But at this stage they barely exist, and for me that's annoying. I get that other people's mileage when it comes to Goten and Trunks will vary, but I don't see why they can't at least have something to DO.

There's not even any sort of guarantee that DBS will ever go beyond EoZ. So for me a hypothetical is a cold comfort.
Actually their development has been negative of late. SS3 Gotenks Vs copy-Vega was embarrassing.

User avatar
PsionicWarrior
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1569
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 2:33 pm

Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:40 am

mAcChaos wrote: You have to let go of comparing power levels like DBZ. Super is basically its own separate thing. It's never going to be the same.
But Super is the official continuation of Z. Of course Z is its own thing compared to DB and so is Super but you can't consider them as truly 'separate things'. It's one big series, and Super is part of it.
Asura wrote:It's not even about power levels dude, I really wish people would stop saying that, it's just about power consistency. Looking at what's on the screen. Super's logic is literally A > B and B > C but C > A. It shows one strong character fighting another, and then it shows a weaker fighter fighting that guy at the same level. It makes no sense and Super has a habit of not making any sense with it's power relativity. It doesn't have anything to do with numbers and all about how they are constantly contradicting themselves.
Amen to that. It's been a while I chose to not care about power consistency in Super but it certainly wouldn't harm the show if they cared just a bit?
Tbh though it's a bit better in TOP, and the tactics approach is nice imo, of course I'm disappointed there is so many 'weaklings' fighting in this arena but at least it keeps things coherent, as many said the handling of Roshi this episode was beyond expectations and imo couldn't have existed if everyone was Goku tier (as I was expecting before it started). It looks like they try to find some balance, which is why more people are asking for lower characters to get powered-up, so there will be more freedom from writers on the matter of power consistency for the future threats to come once the tournament is over.

Post Reply