Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

I wanted to see what everyone thinks about MSSJ Goku (50%) and SSJG3 Trunks. Who is stronger? By how much?

I currently have these related power levels:

SSJG2 Trunks: 1,050,000,000
SSJG2 Vegeta: 1,080,000,000
Piccolo (CG): 1,2000,000,000
MSSJ Goku (50%): 1,250,000,000
Perfect Cell: 1,300,000,000
SSJG3 Trunks: 1,400,000,000

How are these?

[Kaboom]

I wanted to see what everyone thinks about MSSJ Goku (50%) and SSJG3 Trunks. Who is stronger? By how much?

I tend to think that it's largely irrelevant... Everyone would be aware that the power Trunks held with SSJ Grade 3 was useless because of the form's drawbacks, so nobody would bother factoring it into comparisons with anyone else. Trunks could have been ten times stronger than even Super Perfect Cell in the form and it wouldn't mean jack diddly.

[Darkron2151]

I wanted to see what everyone thinks about MSSJ Goku (50%) and SSJG3 Trunks. Who is stronger? By how much?

I currently have these related power levels:

SSJG2 Trunks: 1,050,000,000
SSJG2 Vegeta: 1,080,000,000
Piccolo (CG): 1,2000,000,000
MSSJ Goku (50%): 1,250,000,000
Perfect Cell: 1,300,000,000
SSJG3 Trunks: 1,400,000,000

How are these?

I like these a lot. I personally have Piccolo on par with Ascended Trunks myself, but not quite reaching Vegeta (even though we have Piccolo the same power level, I have everyone else a little bigger). He catches up in Buu Arc though, as I have him at 50% CG Goku level. (Also, there's an extra zero you put Piccolo )

But yeah, as far as 50% MSSJ Goku vs. SSJ Grade 3 Trunks (at least for my levels), it's 1,500,000,000 vs. 1,600,000,000 with Trunks almost 1 Freeza ahead of Goku....wait a minute

[RandomGuy96]

Vegeta seems too close to Cell.

[ZombieVito]

I wanted to see what everyone thinks about MSSJ Goku (50%) and SSJG3 Trunks. Who is stronger? By how much?

I currently have these related power levels:

SSJG2 Trunks: 1,050,000,000
SSJG2 Vegeta: 1,080,000,000
Piccolo (CG): 1,2000,000,000
MSSJ Goku (50%): 1,250,000,000
Perfect Cell: 1,300,000,000
SSJG3 Trunks: 1,400,000,000

How are these?

I like these a lot. I personally have Piccolo on par with Ascended Trunks myself, but not quite reaching Vegeta (even though we have Piccolo the same power level, I have everyone else a little bigger). He catches up in Buu Arc though, as I have him at 50% CG Goku level. (Also, there's an extra zero you put Piccolo )

But yeah, as far as 50% MSSJ Goku vs. SSJ Grade 3 Trunks (at least for my levels), it's 1,500,000,000 vs. 1,600,000,000 with Trunks almost 1 Freeza ahead of Goku....wait a minute

Well he did stood up to a Cell Junior. To be honest I think I have him too low.

Random: A 1.20 gap is enough to win a fight, besides Vegeta put a lot of energy on that Final Flash.

[RandomGuy96]

Well he did stood up to a Cell Junior. To be honest I think I have him too low.

Random: A 1.20 gap is enough to win a fight, besides Vegeta put a lot of energy on that Final Flash.

Cell tanked Vegeta's kick to the neck before Vegeta even used the Final Flash.

[Darkron2151]

What's your guys' opinion on the Majin Squad (Pui Pui, Yakon, and Dabura)? I have them:

Pui Pui: 2,000,000
Yakon: 80,000,000
Dabura: 4,800,000,000

[ZombieVito]

Well he did stood up to a Cell Junior. To be honest I think I have him too low.

Random: A 1.20 gap is enough to win a fight, besides Vegeta put a lot of energy on that Final Flash.

Cell tanked Vegeta's kick to the neck before Vegeta even used the Final Flash.

Are we really going to go down that road again? I don't take tanking feats that seriously. 1.20 is a bigger gap than KKx2 Goku and Vegeta, that's enough for me.

My Majin Squad PL:

Pui Pui: 640,000
Yakon: 80,000,000
Dabura: 2,900,000,000

[Son Edo]

I've been watching dragon ball recently and I wanted to see everyone's opinion on how strong cyborg Tao Pai Pai is. I wouldn't know where he'd fit, he's obviously complete fodder compared to Tenshinhan but was said to be oh so much stronger than before. Could he be above everybody from the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai?

[Kaboom]

Could he be above everybody from the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai?

Perhaps. The official pre-Raditz numbers are kind of a "take it or leave it" deal, but the one for Tao Pai Pai is 210. That's right between the 180 figure for Goku and Tenshinhan at the 22nd Budokai and the 260 figure for Goku and King Piccolo.

Whether one personally accepts those specific numbers or not, they could still be seen as an official stance on what Cyborg Tao's power is supposed to be compared to other characters.

[Son Edo]

Perhaps. The official pre-Raditz numbers are kind of a "take it or leave it" deal, but the one for Tao Pai Pai is 210. That's right between the 180 figure for Goku and Tenshinhan at the 22nd Budokai and the 260 figure for Goku and King Piccolo.

Whether one personally accepts those specific numbers or not, they could still be seen as an official stance on what Cyborg Tao's power is supposed to be compared to other characters.

That sounds about right. Yeah, I like him being in between 22nd Budokai and Goku/Piccolo

Could you also send me a link to those numbers?

[RandomGuy96]

Are we really going to go down that road again? I don't take tanking feats that seriously. 1.20 is a bigger gap than KKx2 Goku and Vegeta, that's enough for me.

If you're just going to pull "I'm ignoring his most impressive feats because [something]", there's no point to even giving him a battle power.

Could he be above everybody from the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai?

I highly doubt he was above Ten or Goku at the 22nd. He was taken out in one hit by Tenshinhan, who was below 250 (230?) at the 23rd Budokai. I think 150-160 works well enough for him, with both Ten and Goku at the 22nd being 180. That puts this Tao above everyone ELSE at the 22nd, and oh so much stronger than he was before. Possibly twice as strong; non-cyborg Tao should be considerably weaker than Chappa and the 22nd Budokai versions of Krillin and Yamcha.

By the way, that 210 number for Tao was magazine only IIRC. It was never printed in the Daizenshuu or SEG guidebooks like some other numbers on that same page.

[Son Edo]

Tsuru-sennin wouldn't be so confident' if TPP wasn't above that level.

Using those numbers also don't work because there's a enormous gap between 22nd and 23rd Budokai in terms of power.

[DragonBallFan8001]

Characters' power levels that I've posted in earlier posts are from the following characters: Goku, Piccolo, #16, #17, #18, #19, Dr. Gero and Cell.

Now I'll post Vegeta and Vegetto's power levels (of course, these power levels are just speculation):

Vegeta:

When Trunks first arrives: 2,800,000.
(He probably didn't train much after the fight against Freeza on Planet Namek, because he was looking for Goku, in space, so I think he only got a little bit stronger.)

After training for 3 years:
-Base form: 7,100,000.
-Super Saiyan: 355,000,000.
(Vegeta was implied to be a little stronger than Goku, at this pointin the series, who I think (as I've stated in an earlier post) had a power level of 7,000,000.)

After training in the room of spirit and time:
-Base form: 19,200,000.
-Super Saiyan: 960,000,000.
-Super Saiyan Grade 2 (I think it's Super Saiyan × 1.25): 1,200,000,000.
(Vegeta's training wasn't nearly as efficient as Goku's, but he could still beat Semi-Perfect Cell, who I think has a power level of 1,000,000,000.)

After training in the room of spirit and time again:
-Base form: 25,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 1,250,000,000.
-Super Saiyan Grade 2: 1,562,500,000.
(Vegeta probably didn't become much stronger, the second time he trained in the room of spirit and time, because the training was even less challenging to him than it was the first time. He also fought with a Cell Junior at an approximately even level, and Piccolo had a little more trouble fighting against a Cell Junior, so I think Vegeta is a bit stronger than Piccolo.)

During the Boo Arc:
-Base form: 110,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 5,500,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 11,000,000,000.
(Vegeta almost caught up to Goku, who I think had a power level of 112,000,000 during the Boo Arc.)

Majin Vegeta:
-Hypothetical base form: 112,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 5,600,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 11,200,000,000.
(Vegeta caught up to Goku, when he became Majin Vegeta. Vegeta lost this extra power after becoming normal again, I think.)

Vegetto:
-Base form ((Goku + Vegeta) × 1000, I think): 222,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 1,110,000,000,000.

Vegeta in Battle of Gods:
-Base form: 119,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 5,950,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 11,900,000,000.
(It was stated that Vegeta's power surpassed Goku's, if I'm not mistaken.)

[ZombieVito]

You have Vegeta too close to Freeza in BoG, unless you don't follow that.

[Doctor.]

How much do you guys put Goku's KKx3 and x4 Kmehameha, and Vegeta's Galick Gun?

[Kaboom]

I subscribe to the idea that because both of them are techniques which forcibly focus and release the user's ki in bursts, the power amplification effects of the Kaio-Ken and Kamehameha don't "stack." So the powers of up to 24,000 and 32,000 which Goku had while using the Kaio-Ken x3 and x4 respectively would not increase further, and the Kamehameha merely put that power into the form of a big beam attack. It's possible Goku's power was already starting to drop from the stress of the Kaio-Ken, so the actual power levels might be a little lower than that.

Vegeta's power, meanwhile, may have been naturally pushed up to a little over 20,000 by using the Gallic Gun. He doesn't have fancy ki suppression or amplification skills yet, but I think that a small boost in power probably happens naturally when you put a lot of effort into a really big attack. Like Nappa's mouth blast which could have possibly hurt Goku.

[DragonBallFan8001]

You have Vegeta too close to Freeza in BoG, unless you don't follow that.

Goku is weaker than Freeza in Battle of Gods, and Vegeta is said to be a little stronger than Goku. I think that while Freeza is stronger than both Goku and Vegeta, he's only a bit stronger. Beerus said that Goku would still need to be a Super Saiyan to beat Freeza, but Beerus probably doesn't know about Goku's ability to use the Kaioken, Kamehameha, and many other techniques, while he probably does know about Freeza's huge amount of techniques. That's why I think that while Goku and Vegeta are both almost as strong as Freeza, Beerus thinks Freeza would still win against Goku's base form.

How much do you guys put Goku's KKx3 and x4 Kmehameha, and Vegeta's Galick Gun?

I think the techniques have the following power levels in the fight between Goku and Vegeta:
Kaioken ×3 Kamehameha: 24000.
Kaioken ×4 Kamehameha: 32000.
Galick Gun: 24000.

I subscribe to the idea that because both of them are techniques which forcibly focus and release the user's ki in bursts, the power amplification effects of the Kaio-Ken and Kamehameha don't "stack." So the powers of up to 24,000 and 32,000 which Goku had while using the Kaio-Ken x3 and x4 respectively would not increase further, and the Kamehameha merely put that power into the form of a big beam attack. It's possible Goku's power was already starting to drop from the stress of the Kaio-Ken, so the actual power levels might actually be a little lower than that.

Vegeta's power, meanwhile, may have been naturally pushed up to a little over 20,000 by using the Gallic Gun. He doesn't have fancy ki suppression or amplification skills yet, but I think that a small boost in power probably happens by default when you put a lot of effort into a really big attack. Like Nappa's mouth blast which might have even potentially hurt Goku.

I agree with the power levels of 24,000 and 32,000, but not because I think the Kaioken disables the Kamehameha's own power boost, but because Goku was most likely losing a lot of power.

I think Vegeta's Galick Gun reached a power level of 24,000, because the Galick Gun seems like a much more powerful technique than the Kamehameha. When the Galick Gun is being charged, there is a lot of energy flying around, so it probably has a significantly higher power level than Vegeta's own power level.


One thing I want to change about some power levels that I've posted earlier is that when I posted what I think Goku's power levels are (on page 216 of this topic, if I'm not mistaken), I posted:

-After eating a Senzu Bean during Battle of Gods:
Base form: 118,000,000.
Super Saiyan: 5,900,000,000.
Super Saiyan 2: 11,800,000,000.
Super Saiyan 3: 47,200,000,000.
Super Saiyan God: 590,000,000,000.

-After absorbing the Super Saiyan God transformation:
Base form: 531,000,000,000.
Super Saiyan: 26,550,000,000,000.
Super Saiyan 2: 53,100,000,000,000.
Super Saiyan 3: 212,400,000,000,000.

However, I think Goku's power levels after absorbing the Super Saiyan God transformation should be changed, because Super Saiyan transformations are less effective after absorbing the Super Saiyan God transformation. This is what I think Goku's power levels should be:

-After absorbing the Super Saiyan God transformation:
Base form: 531,000,000,000.
Super Saiyan: 590,000,000,000. (As strong as Goku's Super Saiyan God form was, before he absorbed it.)
Super Saiyan 2: 613,600,000,000.
Super Saiyan 3: 660,800,000,000.
(If Goku would only have an increase of 59,000,000,000, instead of 50× base form, when he went Super Saiyan, then Super Saiyan 2 (2× Super Saiyan = 1/25 × 50× Super Saiyan) should be 1/25 × 59,000,000,000. This way, the decrease in the increase of power from Super Saiyan to Super Saiyan 2 is equel to that of the decrease in the increase of power from base form to Super Saiyan. I used the same type of calculation to calculate what his Super Saiyan 3 form's power level would be.)

[Doctor.]

Why do you guys believe that the Base Saiyans are weaker than Freeza? Just because of a little comment from Beerus, which can be interpreted in many different ways?

Regarding SSJG, I think that SSJ just become Goku's SSJG form, and if he transforms into SSJ2 or 3, he loses all of his power. Similar to Gohan.

[Kaboom]

Why do you guys believe that the Base Saiyans are weaker than Freeza? Just because of a little comment from Beerus, which can be interpreted in many different ways?

Despite being considered preposterous in a lot of power level-based communities, it's always been a viable and somewhat popular belief. The solid line from Beerus just gave it some more backing and weight.