Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Noah]

How strong would Freeza and Cell get if they had become Majin soldiers?

Cell would become as strong as M vegeta

Freeza would become atleast as strong as SS3 gotenks in his final form.

I said that ignoring RoF existence, but since you addressed to your opinion: isn't a little bit contradictory that Cell boost is small compared to Freeza even though he has the same "prodigy" genes in his body?

[apex_pretador]

How strong would Freeza and Cell get if they had become Majin soldiers?

Cell would become as strong as M vegeta

Freeza would become atleast as strong as SS3 gotenks in his final form.

I said that ignoring RoF existence, but since you addressed to your opinion: isn't a little bit contradictory that Cell boost is small compared to Freeza even though he has the same "prodigy" genes in his body?

I did not include RoF, otherwise I would have said finger-flick SS3 vegetto at 1%.

Because cell also has non-prodigy genes of king cold, vegeta, goku, nappa, piccolo etc.

How strong would Freeza and Cell get if they had become Majin soldiers?

Cell would become as strong as M vegeta

Freeza would become atleast as strong as SS3 gotenks in his final form.

Didn't Babidi draw out Vegeta's power beyond his limits? Wouldn't "Majin Freeza" be stronger than his Golden Form going by that?

I don't think that majin boost is that potent. Golden freeza was an entire different level of evolution.

[Bullza]

Alright on to the whole Android saga now, I feel like I'm gonna have to revise this one quite a bit. I was gonna make a few changes before posting it but I'll see what people have to say for now.

Trunks Saga

Goku – 4,000,000 
Super Saiyan Goku – 200,000,000 

Trunks – 3,800,000 
Super Saiyan Trunks – 190,000,000 

Mecha Frieza – 160,000,000 
King Cold – 90,000,000 

Android Saga

Goku – 5,000,000 
Super Saiyan Goku – 250,000,000 

Vegeta – 5,200,000 
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 260,000,000 

Trunks – 4,400,000 
Super Saiyan Trunks – 220,000,000 

Piccolo – 190,000,000 

Gohan – 3,000,000 
Krillin – 2,400,000 
Tien – 2,250,000 
Yamcha – 2,000,000 

Android 16 – 450,000,000
Android 17 – 360,000,000
Android 18 – 325,000,000

Android 19 – 30,000,000 
Android 19 (w/Goku’s energy) – 90,000,000 
Android 19 (w/Vegeta’s energy) – 130,000,000 

Android 20 – 50,000,000 
Android 20 (w/Vegeta’s energy) – 150,000,000 

Cell Saga

Vegeta – 13,500,000 
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 675,000,000 
Super Saiyan Grade 2 Vegeta – 880,000,000 

Trunks – 12,800,000 
Super Saiyan Trunks – 640,000,000 
Super Saiyan Grade 2 Trunks – 840,000,000 
Super Saiyan Grade 3 Trunks – 1,280,000,000 

Piccolo – 190,000,000 
Piccolo (Fused with Kami) – 360,000,000

Android 16 – 450,000,000
Android 17 – 360,000,000
Android 18 – 325,000,000

Imperfect Cell – 290,000,000 
Imperfect Cell (Post Absorption) – 450,000,000
Semi Perfect Cell – 600,000,000 
Semi Perfect Cell (Powering Up) – 675,000,000 
Perfect Cell (Suppressed) – 1,100,000,000 

Cell Games Saga

Goku – 40,000,000 
Super Saiyan Goku – 2,000,000,000 

Gohan – 50,000,000 
Super Saiyan Gohan – 2,500,000,000 
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan – 5,000,000,000 

Vegeta – 30,000,000 
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 1,500,000,000 

Trunks – 28,000,000 
Super Saiyan Trunks – 1,400,000,000 

Piccolo – 1,200,000,000 

Cell Jr – 1,600,000,000 
Perfect Cell (Suppressed) – 2,250,000,000 
Perfect Cell (Full Power) – 2,500,000,000 
Perfect Cell (Buff) – 3,000,000,000 
Super Perfect Cell – 4,500,000,000

[jeffbr92]

Alright on to the whole Android saga now, I feel like I'm gonna have to revise this one quite a bit. I was gonna make a few changes before posting it but I'll see what people have to say for now.

Good list, I like the numbers you gave to 19 and 20.

[Gog]

Namek:


[spoiler]Gohan:

510K (Base)

1.2M (Enraged)

Krillin:

505K (Base)

Vegeta:

520K (Base)

3M (Zenkai'd)

Piccolo:

1.7M

Goku:

5M (Base)

50M (KKX10)

100M (KKX20)

250M (SSJ)

Freeza:

530K (First)

1.06M (Second)

1.5M (Full Power Second)

2M (Third)

5M (Finial SUPPRESSED)

124.5 (half of his full power.)

249M (Full Power)[/spoiler]


Android:


[spoiler]King Cold:

100M (First Form)

200M (Finial Form Hypothetical)

Mecha Freeza:

110M (Suppressed)

300M (Full Power)

Goku:

6M (Base)

300M (SSJ)

120M (Heart Virus)

Trunks:

3M (Base)

150M (SSJ)

19:

100M

140M (Energy adsorbed)

Dr Gero:

110M

150M (Energy adsorbed)

Android 16:

420M

Android 18:

330M

Android 17:

340M

Piccolo:

170M

340M (Fused)

Vegeta:

6.2M(Base)

310M(SSJ)[/spoiler]


Cell:


[spoiler]Gohan:

200M (Base)

10B (SSJ)

20B (SSJ2)

Goku:

195M (Base)

9.75B (SSJ)

Vegeta:

11M (Base)

550M (SSJ)

715M (Super Vegeta)

---

Cell Games

150M (Base)

8.75B (SSJ)

Trunks:

10M (Base)

500M (SSJ)

850M (Buff)

---

Cell Games

145M (Base)

7.25B (SSJ)

Cell:

150M (Imperfect)

420M (Imperfect Ate a bunch)

570M (Semi Perfect)

10.1B (Perfect)

15.15B (Buff[)

20.2B (Perfect Zenkai'd)[/spoiler]

[LightBing]

Super's Manga Numbers

Logic: I gave Beerus the figure 1.000.000 and started building the list as everyone compares to him. I apply the following reasoning when determining gaps: [spoiler]

So going back to your original question, if we want to be objective we can only evaluate fight's in the manga where it's know both opponents power levels:

Raditz (12xx, said so by Nappa) vs Goku (416) and Piccolo (408) Gap 66%

Raditz owns them both at the same time, there's no dispute that in a head-to-head fight this power difference is more than enough for dominance. I highlight that Goku and Piccolo had the advantage of ki-sensing/modification, besides the surprise factor.
Piccolo would never have been able to hit with his Makankosappo alone and he failed the first time with Goku's help.

Part 1: Goku (8.000) vs Vegeta (18.000) Gap 56%

This is rather short but we see Goku turned into a punching bag, just no chance at all. Another case of dominance.

Part 2: Kaioken x2 Goku (16.000) vs Vegeta (18.000) Gap 12%

This super short, what we see is Goku partially dodging Vegeta's attack. Which indicates that this wouldn't be a one way beat down. However, it appears Goku still wouldn't have any chance of victory in a head-to-head confrontation.

Part 3: Kaioken x3 Goku (24.000) vs Vegeta (18.000) Gap 25%

Vegeta gets dominated. He tries to fight back, failing to hit Goku. This is very one-sided.

Vegeta (24.000) vs Kiwi (18.000) Gap 25%

A panicked and fleeing Kiwi is easily killed by Vegeta. The difference between this fight and the previous gap 25% fight are three factors: Kiwi mental state in here does him harm, he's already a defeated man; Vegeta's toughness to resist Goku onslaught; Goku's suffering the stress of the Kaioken.
I would say there's consistency between both fight's, if we take into account the details and not simply raw power. The result would be the same, the impact changes due to the details.

Nail (42.000) vs First Form Freeza (530.000) Gap 93%
Overkill...

Conclusion: At the very least 25% power advantage is enough to own, even with other factors like toughness, mental state and ki-sensing/modifying advantages. Vegeta is one of the biggest tanks in the series, that wouldn't stop him from losing to Kaioken x3 Goku.
I should note that if you let yourself get hit by a Genki Dama or allow Piccolo to charge his Makankosappo for an hour, you're gonna lose. Special techniques can cover any gap, what I'm discussing is a head-to-head type of confrontation.

Based on other fight's that we can kinda guess the characters power level, I theorize that a gap of 10/15% can be overcome by skill, intelligence, toughness, team work, etc...
10% or less and we should have an entertaining and even fight.

[/spoiler]

Whis - 1.400.000
Beerus - 1.000.000
Vegetto Blue - 970.000 : Based on Kaioshin's comparison.
Absolute Zamasu - 250.000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rosé Goku Black - 8.000 : Against Vegeta he was affected mentally(see Nappa vs Goku) and spending more energy than Vegeta, who was tiring him out.
SSJB Vegeta - 6.800
SSJB Goku - 6.600 : Weaker than Vegeta because he didn't train in the RoSaT.
SSJ Goku Black - 6.400 : Was even with Blue Vegeta.
SSJG Vegeta - 5.800
SSJG Goku - 5.600
Base Vegetto - 5.000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mutated SSJ2 Vegeta - 60
Base Goku Black - 40
SSJ3 Goku - 33
SSJ2 Future Trunks - 32
Future Zamasu - 24

Note that this is a rough draft.

[The gr]

perfection

is all right,is The Same as mine, I'm just eager to see your take on the buu saga

[jeffbr92]

Power levels

Why have 100% Freeza and SSJ Goku way stronger than their numbers listed on Daizenshuu?

[Gog]

Power levels

Why have 100% Freeza and SSJ Goku way stronger than their numbers listed on Daizenshuu?

Because having both of them at 3M is an incredibly limiting number.

Serious Freeza >>= FP Goku > Warm Up Freeza >= Warm Up Goku > Initial Final Form Freeza >>= Vegeta >> 3rd Form Freeza > Piccolo > Over one million = Initial 2nd Form Freeza.

You have to squeeze all of these gaps into such a small number. It's not possible or realistic.

[DanielSSJ]

Because having both of them at 3M is an incredibly limiting number.

Serious Freeza >>= FP Goku > Warm Up Freeza >= Warm Up Goku > Initial Final Form Freeza >>= Vegeta >> 3rd Form Freeza > Piccolo > Over one million = Initial 2nd Form Freeza.

You have to squeeze all of these gaps into such a small number. It's not possible or realistic.

It's really not that hard, especially if you take 2nd form Freeza's "over 1 million" power level as referring to his maximum in that form, or if you take Goku's "I'm gonna fight seriously now" line as him just not putting in his full effort, instead of him actually suppressing Ki.

[ZombieVito]

Alright on to the whole Android saga now, I feel like I'm gonna have to revise this one quite a bit. I was gonna make a few changes before posting it but I'll see what people have to say for now.

Trunks Saga

Goku – 4,000,000 
Super Saiyan Goku – 200,000,000 

Trunks – 3,800,000 
Super Saiyan Trunks – 190,000,000 

Mecha Frieza – 160,000,000 
King Cold – 90,000,000 

Android Saga

Goku – 5,000,000 
Super Saiyan Goku – 250,000,000 

Vegeta – 5,200,000 
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 260,000,000 

Trunks – 4,400,000 
Super Saiyan Trunks – 220,000,000 

Piccolo – 190,000,000 

Gohan – 3,000,000 
Krillin – 2,400,000 
Tien – 2,250,000 
Yamcha – 2,000,000 

Android 16 – 450,000,000
Android 17 – 360,000,000
Android 18 – 325,000,000

Android 19 – 30,000,000 
Android 19 (w/Goku’s energy) – 90,000,000 
Android 19 (w/Vegeta’s energy) – 130,000,000 

Android 20 – 50,000,000 
Android 20 (w/Vegeta’s energy) – 150,000,000 

Cell Saga

Vegeta – 13,500,000 
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 675,000,000 
Super Saiyan Grade 2 Vegeta – 880,000,000 

Trunks – 12,800,000 
Super Saiyan Trunks – 640,000,000 
Super Saiyan Grade 2 Trunks – 840,000,000 
Super Saiyan Grade 3 Trunks – 1,280,000,000 

Piccolo – 190,000,000 
Piccolo (Fused with Kami) – 360,000,000

Android 16 – 450,000,000
Android 17 – 360,000,000
Android 18 – 325,000,000

Imperfect Cell – 290,000,000 
Imperfect Cell (Post Absorption) – 450,000,000
Semi Perfect Cell – 600,000,000 
Semi Perfect Cell (Powering Up) – 675,000,000 
Perfect Cell (Suppressed) – 1,100,000,000 

Cell Games Saga

Goku – 40,000,000 
Super Saiyan Goku – 2,000,000,000 

Gohan – 50,000,000 
Super Saiyan Gohan – 2,500,000,000 
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan – 5,000,000,000 

Vegeta – 30,000,000 
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 1,500,000,000 

Trunks – 28,000,000 
Super Saiyan Trunks – 1,400,000,000 

Piccolo – 1,200,000,000 

Cell Jr – 1,600,000,000 
Perfect Cell (Suppressed) – 2,250,000,000 
Perfect Cell (Full Power) – 2,500,000,000 
Perfect Cell (Buff) – 3,000,000,000 
Super Perfect Cell – 4,500,000,000

- I really find hard to believe Mecha Freeza surpassed Namek SSJ Goku. Why bring Cold if he did?
- Semi Cell's power up seems a bit small for my liking.
- Piccolo seems way to high in the CG to me. He admitted inferiority to the Cell that trashed Vegeta.
- SSJ Gohan and Cell's full power should be way higher.

Question to everyone: If SSG Goku is a 10, where do you have SSJ3 Vegetto in the Boo arc and BoG arc.

[Bullza]

Question to everyone: If SSG Goku is a 10, where do you have SSJ3 Vegetto in the Boo arc and BoG arc.

About a 6 or a 7. If we go by the movie there was a whole portion where he fought at 80% of his power, aka an 8. Even that amount I'd say was still intended to be stronger than SSJ3 Vegito.

It'd mean Super Vegito would be a .75-.85 which could fit him in between 10% Beerus and Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta or something.

[Analytic]

- I really find hard to believe Mecha Freeza surpassed Namek SSJ Goku. Why bring Cold if he did?

He said it was for extra insurance, and that he could probably beat Goku alone. And he couldn't expect Goku to be stronger as well? The reason Freeza exterminated the Saiyans was because of how rapidly they grew in strength, and he also knew about zenkais.

[Kaboom]

I finally got around to adding some painstakingly-researched and expertly-crafted Resurrection F figures to my movies list, if anyone cares. The link to the list is in my signature as always.

Don't expect anything resembling Super numbers until my descendants get around to consulting my "Super Revised" notes and making that a reality sometime in the mid 2100's.

It's really not that hard, especially if you take 2nd form Freeza's "over 1 million" power level as referring to his maximum in that form, or if you take Goku's "I'm gonna fight seriously now" line as him just not putting in his full effort, instead of him actually suppressing Ki.

I concur with that second bit, I usually just chalk it up to a "full power, but minimal effort" sort of thing. Power level is just a measurement of ki, after all, not necessarily how you're using it, and your power level can have passive benefits too.

So even if Goku's not actually trying his hardest yet, just by operating at the 3 million level he'd be able to perceive and react to Freeza much better than Vegeta would down closer to 2 million. Something like how Goku and Cell's fight seemed unimpressive to Gohan, even though he wasn't actually powered up to fight yet.

[Bullza]

I really find hard to believe Mecha Freeza surpassed Namek SSJ Goku. Why bring Cold if he did?

Now that I have more time.

As said above it would be most likely be insurance. Frieza said he could probably beat Goku now because he'd grown more powerful. So he wasn't certain which is probably why he brought King Cold along as he thought he'd have no chance against both.

Piccolo seems way to high in the CG to me. He admitted inferiority to the Cell that trashed Vegeta.

This one is interesting, I didn't think about that. Goku said he had no chance against Cell but of course that was after he got sense of what his true power was and he'd be comparing Piccolo to that.

But Piccolo probably wouldn't be aware of that true power would he? So he could be weaker than that Perfect Cell...He should be stronger than Super Vegeta in any case though if he would even think to ask at all.

He'd know how strong Vegeta was, he saw Cell wreck Vegeta so it'd be odd to ask Goku if he had a chance against Cell if he were weaker than that Vegeta.

SSJ Gohan and Cell's full power should be way higher

Any particular reason why you think so?

[dbgtFO]

But Piccolo probably wouldn't be aware of that true power would he? So he could be weaker than that Perfect Cell...He should be stronger than Super Vegeta in any case though if he would even think to ask at all.

He'd know how strong Vegeta was, he saw Cell wreck Vegeta so it'd be odd to ask Goku if he had a chance against Cell if he were weaker than that Vegeta.

He didn't ask, if he stood a chance, he asked why Goku was not just straight up telling him he stood no chance, instead of only being amazed at Piccolo's powerup.

[DBZ Macky]

Question to everyone: If SSG Goku is a 10, where do you have SSJ3 Vegetto in the Boo arc and BoG arc.

My numbas:
SS3 Vegetto- 2.8
SSG Goku (Initial)- 4.66
SSG Goku (Full Power)- 10

Goku did say that God's power was beyond anything he could imagine... and that was before he started powering up like a madman every next episode. In any case, it's not like he knows Vegetto's true power anyways, which would be more than SSB. In just his base.

Alright on to the whole Android saga now, I feel like I'm gonna have to revise this one quite a bit. I was gonna make a few changes before posting it but I'll see what people have to say for now.

Trunks Saga

Goku – 4,000,000 
Super Saiyan Goku – 200,000,000 

Trunks – 3,800,000 
Super Saiyan Trunks – 190,000,000 

Mecha Frieza – 160,000,000 
King Cold – 90,000,000 

Android Saga

Goku – 5,000,000 
Super Saiyan Goku – 250,000,000 

Vegeta – 5,200,000 
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 260,000,000 

Trunks – 4,400,000 
Super Saiyan Trunks – 220,000,000 

I agree with most of your numbers for the previous arcs, but that's just to be expected. It's usually at the Androids arc where different people have different opinions. Your list is still pretty solid, so I'd really only be nit-picking on one point:

While learning how to control the Super Saiyan transformation as well as learning what seems to be a pretty difficult teleportation technique, Goku still manages to raise his battle power immensely when he really doesn't even have any actual threat to motivate him to train that hard. Yet when he does have sparring partners and an immediate threat to motivate him, he doesn't improve as much? Not to mention that he'd be able to focus more on increasing his battle power than mastering the Instant Transmission or learning how to tap into SS at will. I don't think Goku improved that much and only became marginally stronger than his Namek era self.
I have Post-Yardrat SS Goku at 156,000,000 and Post-3-Years-Training SS Goku at 190,000,000.

Also, how much time did Trunks have to train in the Future before the Androids appeared in the present?

[DanielSSJ]

Also, how much time did Trunks have to train in the Future before the Androids appeared in the present?

I can't remember when and where, but I believe it was stated that Trunks spent eight months in the future before returning to the past.

[LightBing]

Also, how much time did Trunks have to train in the Future before the Androids appeared in the present?

I can't remember when and where, but I believe it was stated that Trunks spent eight months in the future before returning to the past.

It's because Future Bulma said the time-machine needed 8 months to refuel. Although the Super Manga tells us it was three years, based on Bulma's explanation of how the timelines are connected. Not sure if it's a plot-hole or not.

[DBZ Macky]

Also, how much time did Trunks have to train in the Future before the Androids appeared in the present?

I can't remember when and where, but I believe it was stated that Trunks spent eight months in the future before returning to the past.

It's because Future Bulma said the time-machine needed 8 months to refuel. Although the Super Manga tells us it was three years, based on Bulma's explanation of how the timelines are connected. Not sure if it's a plot-hole or not.

Seems like a retcon to me. I remember Trunks looking very young the first time he arrived and fought Goku. He was pretty short. I'm leaning more towards him being in the future for 3 years for now.