Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Sorry, I haven't made my point clear because I'm busy, I'll reply better and more in a detailed way later

You can't use both CG SSJ Goku ~ Shin and Base Saiyans >>> Shin, those two cut each other.

That's more of a speculation that the saiyans never got stronger. This is not cutting anything, nor is this any type of contradiction, until said or shown so, otherwise it would be speculation by thinking that "Base Goku in Buu Saga can't surpass his Ssj CG self".

Piccolo couldn't even tell the difference between Majin Vegeta and Kid Gohan

Nothing new. I clarified this point in my blog on DBZ amino. You can check it again. Otherwise there's no need to go over it to be honest.

and nothing implies Gohan had such a huge rage boost at the Cell Games

Yes there has been an Implification. Gohan in the cell games went Ssj2, while going into that, he pulled up his Potential stored within him. Even since then it was noted that Gohan's Potential was out. It wasn't called a "Ssj2" or a surpassed form more or less from what I remember. The case back then was that his Potential furthered his power. The later events supported that in the show, which I also covered in a very small part on DBZ Amino:

[spoiler]http://aminoapps.com/p/4sxyyx[/spoiler]

All of it would end up adding up.

I also clarified this topic in my blog. I explained it well enough

Ssj2 is simply a power up mutations of Saiyans twice the strength of their Ssj state they're using.

Shin's fear can be explained by the fact that Babidi's minions can't be sensed and he ended up overrating those guys

That would look more like a push though. Supreme Kai knows everything about Babidi's henchmen. Goku "knew" that one of them is enough to beat Pui Pui. Goku can know how powerful his opponents are just by looking at them sensing them out, which he did against them. Heck characters can know by simply feeling someone's own presence. So no. "Overrating" is possible, but not to an astronomical extend, at least that was never shown. Especially that we're talking about the z fighters who fought, which supreme kai wasn't aware of their strengths

His feats places him above all the SSJs on Buu Arc

How would that even come? Especially Goku as a Ssj was gonna kill Supreme Kai as a Ssj

Gohan releasing the Z Sword puts a cape on this. Holding the Z Sword is inconsistent, after the training base Gohan was holding the Z Sword much better than he was as a SSJ

Simply because at first he was Struggling as a Ssj, then he easily lifted it in Base, doesn't mean it's inconsistent. It doesn't work like that. Even later, it's stated that Gohan's handling of It and power is way better than before. I showed in my post how this would actually be good and fine. Gohan in the Buu Saga pre Ultimate is fodder to Vegeta and Goku.

his SSJ form can't be that strong since he's supposed to be ~ Fat Buu as a SSJ2.

To be honest I didn't get what this is.

This isn't detailed enough, but you can go with that. I'll reply later

I'm gonna take another read on your post, tbh it was a really fast reading. But for your two final points:

How would that even come? Especially Goku as a Ssj was gonna kill Supreme Kai as a Ssj

He did much, much better than Gohan and Dabura against Buu. While both of them got one or two shoted, Shin was able to get back on his feat and give Buu some blows, even pushing him a bit. And he made Piccolo shat his pants. It makes sense for him to be scared at SSJ Goku, since he saw Goku turning SSJ2 against Yakon.

To be honest I didn't get what this is.

You said Goku and Gohan lifting the Z Sword proves they are stronger than Shin in base. But this is inconsistent, since Base Gohan (Post training) can lift the sword better than SSJ Gohan (Before the training), but he can't be that strong, because Shin said SSJ2 Gohan had a shot against Fat Buu and that would make Fat Buu more than 100x stronger than SSJ Gohan (Pre).

[DB▪Magnum-Expert]

He did much, much better than Gohan and Dabura against Buu. While both of them got one or two shoted, Shin was able to get back on his feat and give Buu some blows, even pushing him a bit. And he made Piccolo shat his pants. It makes sense for him to be scared at SSJ Goku, since he saw Goku turning SSJ2 against Yakon.

It doesn't matter. Supreme Kai holding his own against Majin Buu better doesn't mean he's stronger than Ssj(s). Gohan as a kid lasted a while against Recoome yet in actuality he's not supposed to stay 1 bit. This is also more like Goku when he's no match against his opponent yet stand up regardless. So it's simply villains trying to 'gag' around. Even though there's an astronomical difference in their powers. It's a matter of "resistance" not power at states like this. In fact, supreme kai thought that he could have stopped all of this if he knew there are people as strong as the saiyans, implying that they are superior to him. Supreme Kai was actually shocked at Goku's base form powers. Dabura even appreciated Goku's and Vegeta's powers even before they enter and transform. To add on This, Goku threatened Supreme Kai in his Ssj form. No matter what we try to say, it heavily stands still. Supreme Kai can read minds, this is a matter of death, he wouldn't think "he can go Ssj2 this he can kill me but now he's Ssj". The only time he went Ssj2 first time was against Vegeta to end his battle quick.

You said Goku and Gohan lifting the Z Sword proves they are stronger than Shin in base. But this is inconsistent, since Base Gohan (Post training) can lift the sword better than SSJ Gohan (Before the training), but he can't be that strong, because Shin said SSJ2 Gohan had a shot against Fat Buu and that would make Fat Buu more than 100x stronger than SSJ Gohan (Pre).

Oh. Well seeing what you mean, this furthers my point. First you said that Gohan lifting the z sword is inconsistent, I can understand why you think that, but the matter would end up speculating that "Gohan can't get that string in a short amount of time". This conclusion is simply speculation with nothing to back up that point, supreme kai even thought that Gohan after training with the z sword that Gohan base form is stronger than before completely, and as Ssj he's way stronger. Gohan fought Dabura in Ssj2, while that power was described as fodder to Goku and Vegeta, even before we knew that Vegeta can go Ssj2. The thing is, we cannot judge power ups by our own witnesses, Gohan getting 50x stronger in that training would make it possible to get to at least trade up battles with Fat Buu which supreme kai thought (wrong in the end). If we go by that, Goku's and Vegeta's power ups are logical then.

[p-hyvo]

i did some calculation, and for me is about x13'400 times stronger that gt end base Goku...could it be?

[Revolution]

Curious to see your workings on this if you don’t mind sharing?

[Noah]

i did some calculation, and for me is about x13'400 times stronger that gt end base Goku...could it be?

I don't know, that considering GT Base Goku from the beginning of the series or in the final arc?

[Chickenchaser]

i did some calculation, and for me is about x13'400 times stronger that gt end base Goku...could it be?

I really don't know, but i'm put him superior SSJ4 Gogeta.

[Dr. Gero]

My first DBZ power level list after a while. Take a good read and tell me what you think, please:



Mirai Trunks' arrival

Chaozu - 20,000
Yamcha - 48,000
Tenshinhan - 60,000
Kuririn - 100,000
Son Gohan - 350,000

Piccolo - 2,800,000
Vegeta - 3,000,000

King Cold - 90,000,000
Mecha Freeza (suppressed) - 90,000,000
~Hypothetical full power - 150,000,000

Mirai Trunks - 3,400,000
~Super Saiyajin - 170,000,000

Son Goku - 3,600,000
~Super Saiyajin - 180,000,000


The Androids arrive

Yamcha - 70,000
Tenshinhan - 90,000
Kuririn - 150,000
Son Gohan - 4,000,000

Android #19 - 70,000,000
~post absorptions - 140,000,000

Android #20 - 90,000,000
~post absorptions - 160,000,000

Piccolo - 190,000,000

Mirai Trunks - 4,600,000
~Super Saiyajin - 230,000,000

Son Goku - 5,000,000
~Super Saiyajin - 250,000,000

Vegeta - 5,500,000
~Super Saiyajin - 275,000,000

Android #18 - 340,000,000

Android #17 - 375,000,000


Cell enters in scene

Cell 1st form (Ginger Town) - 300,000,000

Piccolo w/kami (weighted) - 340,000,000
~no weights - 380,000,000

Cell (after mass humans absorptions) - 500,000,000

Android #16 - 500,000,000

Cell 2nd form (after absorbing #17) - 700,000,000
~Full power - 900,000,000

Vegeta (post 1 year in Rosat) - 18,000,000
~Super Saiyajin - 900,000,000
~Super Saiyajin Grade 2 (Dai Ni Dankai) - 1,200,000,000

Mirai Trunks (post 1 year in Rosat) - 17,000,000
~Super Saiyajin - 850,000,000
~Super Saiyajin Grade 2 (Dai Ni Dankai) - 1,130,000,000
~Super Saiyajin Grade 3 (Dai San Dankai) - 1,800,000,000

Perfect Cell ("fake chi output") - 1,100,000,000
~Vs Vegeta & Trunks - 1,500,000,000


10 days of wait

Son Goku full power Super Saiyajin (50%) - 1,500,000,000
Piccolo (post Rosat) - 1,500,000,000


Cell Games

Yamcha - 70,000
Tenshinhan - 90,000
Kuririn - 150,000

Android #16 - 500,000,000

Piccolo - 1,500,000,000

Mirai Trunks (post 2nd year in Rosat) - 38,000,000
~Super Saiyajin - 1,900,000,000

Vegeta (post 2nd year in Rosat) - 40,000,000
~Super Saiyajin - 2,000,000,000

Cell Juniors - 2,100,000,000

Son Goku Full Power Super Saiyajin - 3,000,000,000
~tired FPSSJ - 1,100,000,000

Perfect Cell (vs Goku) - 3,300,000,000
~Vs Gohan (using a little more effort, I guess) - 3,750,000,000
~Full power - 5,000,000,000

Son Gohan Full Power Super Saiyajin - 3,750,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 2 - 7,500,000,000

"Super" Perfect Cell - 7,000,000,000


Majin Boo Saga

Mr.Satan - 7
Videl - 9
Spopovich/Yamu - 15


Yamcha - 70,000
Tenshinhan - 120,000
Kuririn - 150,000

Son Goten - 7,200,000
~Super Saiyajin - 360,000,000

Trunks - 8,000,000
~Super Saiyajin - 400,000,000

Pui Pui - 900,000
Yakon - 90,000,000
Dabra - 3,200,000,000

Kibito - 50,000,000
Piccolo - 1,700,000,000
Kaioshin - 2,500,000,000

Son Gohan - 60,000,000
~Super Saiyajin - 3,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 2 - 6,000,000,000

Vegeta - 72,000,000
~Super Saiyajin - 3,600,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 2 - 7,200,000,000

Son Goku - 90,000,000
~Super Saiyajin - 4,500,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 2 - 9,000,000,000

"Majin" Vegeta - 9,000,000,000

Fat Boo - 15,000,000,000

Son Goku Super Saiyajin 3 - 36,000,000,000

Gotenks Super Saiyajin (pre Rosat) - 15,000,000,000



Son Goten (post Rosat) - 10,000,000
~Super Saiyajin - 500,000,000

Trunks (post Rosat) - 10,000,000
~Super Saiyajin - 500,000,000

Gotenks (post Rosat) - 720,000,000
~Super Saiyajin - 36,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 3 - 288,000,000,000

Super Boo - 288,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan - 432,000,000,000

Super Boo + Gotenks SSJ3 (and Piccolo, if you will) - 576,000,000,000

Super Boo + Gohan - 720,000,000,000

Vegetto - 30,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin - 1,500,000,000,000


Gogeta (estimating) - 6,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin - 300,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 2 - 600,000,000,000

[DanielSSJ]

power levels

Overall, your list doesn't look half bad. There's a few things that stick out to me, such as Boo Arc Vegeta being a bit weaker than Cell Games Gohan, Goten and Trunks being kinda low, and Evil Boo being exactly as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, but those are small issues.

Though I would recommend writing your thoughts and explanations along with your power levels. They don't have to be super detailed or anything. Just writing enough to give your numbers context would make your list more fun to read. Anyways, those are my two cents.

[Dr. Gero]

power levels

There's a few things that stick out to me, such as Boo Arc Vegeta being a bit weaker than Cell Games Gohan

Well, in my reading of the Boo arc it got pretty clear to me that Vegeta is still a little bit weaker than Cell Games Gohan.

Chapter: 426 (DBZ 232), P4.2-3
Vegeta: “At that time there was a large gap between our powers…But what about now? While you’ve been enjoying peace, I’ve continued to train.”

Vegeta knows Gohan got weaker by enjoying peace and yet he isn't sure about how he matches up to him. If he were already stronger than Gohan from seven years ago, then his superiority should have come clear.

Vegeta: “I’m looking forward to this…Show me the fruits of your training in the afterlife. *Goku transforms into Super Saiyan 2* Just as I’d expect. Your power is greater than Gohan’s was back then!”

Vegeta makes a case of mentioning Goku surpassed Gohan from seven years ago and how that's an impressive feat... I don't know why he'd mention Goku (a power he had to sell his soul to match) surpassing Gohan if he already did this prior to becoming Majin. Hell, he tried to catch Babidi's attention right after seeing Goku's quick burst into SSJ2, and that power probably didn't surpass kid Gohan considering how Vegeta only mentioned so when Goku turned into a full power SSJ2. At most I could see all this working if pre Majin Vegeta was = kid Gohan, but having him greater already seems forced imo.

Last but not least, Piccolo can't tell the difference between Majin Vegeta and kid Gohan with 100% of sureness:

Chapter: 465 (DBZ 271), P2.3-4
Context: as Vegeta fights Boo
Piccolo: “[Vegeta]’s already surpassed Super Saiyan as well…This is tremendous power…Perhaps even greater than Gohan’s when he fought Cell…But then…Even Gohan has been killed by Majin Boo…Why is Majin Boo as [strong?] as this?…”

Not does he only mentions Vegeta "perhaps" being stronger than kid Gohan, but he also is uneasy about the situation upon hearing Gohan got killed. I think this all implies the first powers who surpassed Gohan from the Cell Games were Vegeta post his Majin enhancement and Goku after his training in the Other World.

power levels

Goten and Trunks being kinda low

Goten and Trunks couldn't overwhelm #18 in a hand to hand combat while wearing the Mighty Mask costume and had to fire a chi blast to do it. Even though the costume was restricting them, Trunks could still throw a punch and defend himself from some of #18's punches. I don't think they should be far stronger than her based on this.


As for Super Boo/Evil Boo vs SSJ3 Gotenks, I go with it mostly based on what was said after the fight, in which Super Boo just admitted inferiority to Gohan, saying he won't let anyone be stronger than him. He didn't seem to see Gotenks as a threat, and it strikes to me as Gohan being the only menace who could threaten his position as the strongest of the world. I think them being equals works fine with Gotenks' feats and Super Boo only admitting inferiority to Gohan.



Edit: a while ago I tried to add explanations to my levels, but it started to get pretty straining and I just gave up. But you all can ask me why I have such levels (example: "why do you have Trunks in the 1st appearence as 170,000,000?") and I'll do my best to explain it to you

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Blahblah

Hm... Let' see...

Trunks Arc
I think the humans are too low. Piccolo was confident on fighting Freeza and Nail says Kamiccolo (Who would be 2x Piccolo, acording to Guru) would beat him. Shouldn't the humans have similiar gains as well? And i dunno Kuririn would be helpful against Freeza if he's weaker than Ginyu.

Androids Arc
Freeza > 19 and 20? They were supposed to be really fearsome and tough enough to at least take Trunks together, and Piccolo pondered the possibility of the Z Fighters growing up too strong above 19 and 20 being weaker than the expected.

I think Piccolo is too low, giving his confidence on taking powers that can defeat Debut SSJ Trunks. And why is Vegeta so above Goku? Piccolo wasn't even sure if Vegeta was above Goku. I think this sounds pretty good:
Piccolo: 200
SSJ Trunks: 225
SSJ Goku: 240
SSJ Vegeta: 250
Gingertown Cell: 300
Cyborg 18/Weighted Kamiccolo: 360
Cyborg 17/Full Power Kamiccolo: 400

You would have to bump 16 and Cell as well, though. I think 16/Cell as 525 sounds ok.

Cell Games
Cell Jrs and SSJ Vegeta/Trunks are too far above Piccolo. Piccolo was able to defend himself and give some blows for a while, and being on the same shape as Vegeta and Trunks at the end of the fight. I'd say:
Piccolo: 1500
SSJ Trunks: 1800
SSJ Vegeta: 1850
Cell Jr: 1900

Bump Gohan and Speed up Cell to 4000. Goku was "perhaps" stronger than him.

Buu Arc
Why are Goten and Trunks so small? Gohan was worried they might surpass him soon after Goten sparred evenly with him and Trunks was able to slap Vegeta, a feat 18 can't even dream on doing it. Their powers also scared 18 and Piccolo as well.

Fat Buu is too small, he put up a really good fight against Goku. At the very least he should be a 28. Yeah, Goku could have beat Buu, but it wouldn't be a walk in the park. Mr Buu vs Kid Buu pretty much proves it.

This end up bumping Gotenks as well. It's stated he could beat Buu, a feat SSJ3 Goku can at least pretend he can't.

I'm not sure if Super Buu is equal to Gotenks... At the Lookout he couldn't even hit Gotenks and was beaten to a pulp.

Gogeta is too damn high. Buuhan stated Gogeta would not be able to beat him... And the adults aren't multifolder above the kids, so i dunno Gogeta would be multifolders above Gotenks.

Err... You missed Kid Buu... I guess you would give him a 35 or a 36?

[dragonball0900]

I would put Buu arc Piccolo just a bit higher. He always trains after all. Maybe put him like 2,000,000,000 or something like that, I would put him equal to a Cell Jr.

Buu arc Gohan should also be higher. He did got weaker but not that much really. It's also stated that what he lost the most was his rage boost that he had during the Cell arc. I would place Gohan like 3,400,000,000 to 3,500,000,000 in comparison to his Cell arc version's 3,750,000,000. 3,000,000,000 seems too low.

Supreme Kai should also probably a bit more higher, probably like 2,700,000,000 to 2,800,000,000. That way he can be way superior to Piccolo, while at the same time be weaker than SSJ Gohan too.

Goten and Trunks are also too low. A suppressed SSJ blast from Trunks managed to freak her out. They were also able to land punches to Gohan and Vegeta. I doubt someone that is even at Android 16 level could do that, given how his punch didn't damage Semi Perfect Cell at all. We also have how ASSJ Vegeta didn't hurt Perfect Cell (suppressed) at all. Goten and Trunks in my opinion are around the level Future Trunks had in the Cell Games. I'd personally put Kid Trunks equal to his future self version from the CG. Though they can be anywhere near that.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I would put Buu arc Piccolo just a bit higher. He always trains after all. Maybe put him like 2,000,000,000 or something like that, I would put him equal to a Cell Jr.

Tenshinhan is always training too, but he never surpassed Kuririn. Buu Arc Piccolo is featless, him being marginally stronger than he was in the Cell Games seems ok.

Buu arc Gohan should also be higher. He did got weaker but not that much really. It's also stated that what he lost the most was his rage boost that he had during the Cell arc. I would place Gohan like 3,400,000,000 to 3,500,000,000 in comparison to his Cell arc version's 3,750,000,000. 3,000,000,000 seems too low.

Vegeta said he was far stronger as a kid. He's also much weaker than Vegeta, who hasn't surpassed Kid Gohan yet.

[dragonball0900]

Tenshinhan is always training too, but he never surpassed Kuririn. Buu Arc Piccolo is featless, him being marginally stronger than he was in the Cell Games seems ok.

However, the reason of that can easily be explained with Krillin having a wide lead over Tien. That's why Tien can't catch up to Krillin.

Vegeta said he was far stronger as a kid. He's also much weaker than Vegeta, who hasn't surpassed Kid Gohan yet.

Vegeta could probably be comparing Buu arc Gohan to Cell arc Gohan with the rage boosts. Later at Babidi's ship, Vegeta said that they don't know what Gohan is capable of if he gets angry.

I'd say that Vegeta did surpass Kid Gohan when he's not angry, but with the rage boosts then Vegeta is laying behind.

We also don't know how big the gap was between Buu arc Gohan and Vegeta, it couldn't be that large. We also have to factor Gohan being rusty too since he wouldn't be that used to fight, despite the power he has. Here are my numbers in their SSJ versions:

Cell arc:

Piccolo - 1,350,000,000

Vegeta - 1,800,000,000

Goku - 3,000,000,000

Gohan - 3,600,000,000
Angry Gohan - 4,000,000,000


Buu arc:

Piccolo - 2,000,000,000

Vegeta - 3,750,000,000

Goku - 4,500,000,000

Gohan - 3,400,000,000

The Daizenshuu goes further and says that Gohan didn't lose that much of his power, what he lost was his rage boosts.

[Chickenchaser]

Hey guys what do you think Raditz Power Level is 1500 or 1200? In my opinion is 1,500 cuz Many list show's this battle power (WSJ/D7).

My explaintations why this is 1500:

Raditz had a Power Level of 1,500, though many translations of the manga say that the Saibamen (PL 1200) were each as strong as Raditz. But even if that wasn't said, Piccolo fires a beam last measured at PL 1,330 through Raditz that at 1,500 he should've been able to take - were it not for Gohan weakening him [DB #203]. When Gohan did weaken Raditz by head-butting his chest, Gohan has a power level of 1,307.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

It's important that Raditz says "The brat has more power than you!" because if Raditz really was only the same strength, you'd imagine him saying "The brat even has more power than me!" confidently knowing Gohan's PL was back down to "1" at this point. So Raditz power level must surely be above 1,307. That and the original Japanese manga doesn't say that the Saibamen are equal to Raditz, it says they rival or are comparable to Raditz.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

And this is my last point AT say Saibaiman's are slighty inferior to Raditz

[spoiler][/spoiler]

I don't have more points for this.

Fin/End

[dragonball0900]

I will never believe Raditz is 1,500.

1,500 is not a power level that rivals 1,200, it completely dominates it with a x1.25 of difference between their powers. I'd agree that Raditz is over Gohan's 1,307 though. Maybe at 1,350 or so, but not 1,500. If Raditz was 1,500 then it wouldn't be on the same tier as a Saibaman.

[Chickenchaser]

I will never believe Raditz is 1,500.

1,500 is not a power level that rivals 1,200, it completely dominates it with a x1.25 of difference between their powers. I'd agree that Raditz is over Gohan's 1,307 though. Maybe at 1,350 or so, but not 1,500. If Raditz was 1,500 then it wouldn't be on the same tier as a Saibaman.

1.25x is a rivals imo, but 1.33x is a rape (Reacoom(40k) and Vegeta(30k), SSGoku(150 million) and Freeza(120 Million) is 1.25x, their fight was very balanced.

[dragonball0900]

I will never believe Raditz is 1,500.

1,500 is not a power level that rivals 1,200, it completely dominates it with a x1.25 of difference between their powers. I'd agree that Raditz is over Gohan's 1,307 though. Maybe at 1,350 or so, but not 1,500. If Raditz was 1,500 then it wouldn't be on the same tier as a Saibaman.

1.25x is a rivals imo, but 1.33x is a rape (Reacoom(40k) and Vegeta(30k), SSGoku(150 million) and Freeza(120 Million) is 1.25x, their fight was very balanced.

But we also have Vegeta vs Monster Zarbon (first fight), which is a x1.25 difference of power. The one of Goku vs Frieza can be explained that Goku wasn't using his full power or because of his damage in his battle with Frieza in his base (he was in a worse condition than Frieza).

In fact, in my list, most of the power levels I have for the Cell arc have a 1.25 difference of power when it comes to someone dominating other one, such as Vegeta vs Perfect Cell (initial). Piccolo also has a power difference of x1.27 when removing his weights based on the Raditz arc power levels of 322 to 408, and we know how fast he is with outclassing an opponent with that.

I'd say that a 1.125x would be enough to rival opponents, or probably a 1.2x (that's me being way too generous).

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Hey guys what do you think Raditz Power Level is 1500 or 1200? In my opinion is 1,500 cuz Many list show's this battle power (WSJ/D7).

My explaintations why this is 1500:

Raditz had a Power Level of 1,500, though many translations of the manga say that the Saibamen (PL 1200) were each as strong as Raditz. But even if that wasn't said, Piccolo fires a beam last measured at PL 1,330 through Raditz that at 1,500 he should've been able to take - were it not for Gohan weakening him [DB #203]. When Gohan did weaken Raditz by head-butting his chest, Gohan has a power level of 1,307.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

It's important that Raditz says "The brat has more power than you!" because if Raditz really was only the same strength, you'd imagine him saying "The brat even has more power than me!" confidently knowing Gohan's PL was back down to "1" at this point. So Raditz power level must surely be above 1,307. That and the original Japanese manga doesn't say that the Saibamen are equal to Raditz, it says they rival or are comparable to Raditz.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

And this is my last point AT say Saibaiman's are slighty inferior to Raditz

[spoiler][/spoiler]

I don't have more points for this.

Fin/End

1500 can't rivalize a 1200. The weaker fighter still able to give some blows, but is spanked and will definetly lose. It's pretty much how fights like Monster Zarbon vs Vegeta, Recoome vs Vegeta, Piccolo vs Cell Jr played out. Raditz at 1,350 works fine, since it's still on the rivaling (But almost on distant rivaling) range.

[Kaboom]

Hey guys what do you think Raditz Power Level is 1500 or 1200? In my opinion is 1,500 cuz Many list show's this battle power (WSJ/D7).

1,500. That's his official level, and it works perfectly fine for all the reasons that you already seem to know about.

Regardless of any fan-made notions about them, "gaps" are inconsistent and there's no hard rules for them from any official standpoint. Every fighter and every fight is different, and fussing about specific percentage differences between fighters' powers is futile and meaningless. The Sabaimen's power of 1,200 is on the same general level as Raditz's 1,500, and that's all that them "rivaling" him needs to mean.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Hey guys what do you think Raditz Power Level is 1500 or 1200? In my opinion is 1,500 cuz Many list show's this battle power (WSJ/D7).

1,500. That's his official level, and it works perfectly fine for all the reasons that you already seem to know about.

Regardless of any fan-made notions about them, "gaps" are inconsistent and there's no hard rules for them from any official standpoint. Every fighter and every fight is different, and fussing about specific percentage differences between fighters' powers is futile and meaningless. The Sabaimen's power of 1,200 is on the same general level as Raditz's 1,500, and that's all that them "rivaling" him needs to mean.

Gaps heavily depends on both fighter's skills and mentallity, but you can find some some consistence if you really try. And while 1500 can still be grouped with 1200, they are not "rivals". 80% is really close to 75%, and we both know how a fight with this would play out (Vegeta vs Kui, Goku vs Vegeta).

Post 10,000 is mine, bitches!
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