Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:44 am

TheUltimateNinja wrote:Do you think the Base Saiyans Pre-RoSAT managed to break 4 million?
These are my power levels for them:

Goku (Frieza Arc) - 3,000,000
Goku (Mecha Frieza Arc) - 3,600,000
Goku (Android Arc) - 4,800,000

Vegeta (Frieza Arc) - 2,400,000
Vegeta (Mecha Frieza Arc) - 3,000,000
Vegeta (Android Arc) - 5,000,000

Future Trunks (Mecha Frieza Arc) - 3,400,000
Future Trunks (Android Arc) - 4,400,000

Gohan (Frieza - Mecha Frieza Arc) - 300,000
Gohan (Android Arc) - 3,000,000

Yes, I think they did, except for Gohan. Remember that Goku was much stronger after Yardrat, and then he became even more stronger after 3 years of training in earth for the androids. Then we have Vegeta who did far better training and manages to surpass Goku in the android arc.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:11 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:Do you think the Base Saiyans Pre-RoSAT managed to break 4 million?
I think Goku already was above 5 millions when he fought Freeza on Namek. Even going by the 3 millions figure, it's ridiculous to assume with all the improvements they are only 33% stronger than Namek Goku.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ahill1 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:29 pm

This topic is rather dead. I wonder if there's something I could post to liven up it.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:54 pm

ahill1 wrote:This topic is rather dead. I wonder if there's something I could post to liven up it.
Well, you could try to connect all battle powers of Z, GT and Super.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:22 pm

I call it...The Kewi Theory. A form of determining battle powers based on the six thousand point gap between Kewi (18,000) and Vegeta (24,000) when the former was effortlessly killed by the latter. It's not perfect, but the intended effect is to reduce the gross inflation in numbers. As a result, The Kewi Theory also ignores the so-called 'power multipliers' of transformations, as those were never specified in the comic as it is. Without further ado, The Kewi Theory:

The Boy from the Future:

Mecha Freeza (155, 000, 000): After being enhanced with cybernetics Freeza seemed rather confident that he would be able to overwhelm Gokuu.
Great King Cold (157,000,000): Cold was mentioned to be have a fearsome ki even bigger than that of Freeza! Still, he was no match for Trunks!
Super Saiyan Future Trunks Trunks (160, 000, 000): Trunks was clearly strong enough to outperform both Freeza and Cold with little effort.
Super Saiyan Son Gokuu (163, 000, 000): Two and a half years of training in space have made Son Gokuu even stronger yet. In fact, even the mysterious youth that so easily sliced Freeza into bits was unable to intimidate Son Gokuu when they sparred!

The Artificial Humans Appear

Son Gokuu (180,000,000): Three years of training with Piccolo and Gohan have helped Gokuu bring his ki to a new level. Still, because Gokuu was suffering from a heart disease at this time it is difficult to say just how powerful he was.
Artificial Human #19 & #20 (177,000,000): It is likely that Doctor Gero—posing as Artificial Human #20—held some sort of advantage over Artificial Human #19. Whether this was in the form of raw power and speed or some sort of manufacturing flaw is unknown. In any case, neither seemed more powerful than the other. In fact, in comparison to both Son Gokuu and Vegeta, they seemed to be equally behind on the times.
Vegeta (180,000,000): At this time it is not quite clear where Vegeta stood against Son Gokuu. We do know for sure that he stood above Artificial Humans #19 and #20, though. Vegeta also seemed confident he was above Piccolo, who had proven to be more fearsome than Artificial Human #20. Ultimately, it’s hard to say.
Artificial Human #18 (185,000,000): Artificial Human #18 seemed to feel no threat from Vegeta. In fact, after wearing him down a little she showed no effort was necessary to break his arm. There’s a clear gap between the two. If she had gotten series, I imagine she could have utterly vaporized Vegeta.

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First Form Cell (180,000,000; Post-Feed: 187,000,000): Really, it’s hard to say whether Cell was even as strong as #19 and #20 at this juncture, but ultimately he seemed to be able to hold his own against a suppressed Piccolo, who was now on the same level of the two artificial humans he was not: #17 and #18. After feeding on humans Cell was able to overpower the then-exhausted Piccolo and even Artificial Human #17. A two million point gap seems a reasonable enough description of the gap between him and #17.
Piccolo (185,000,000): Having merged with God, Piccolo’s ki soared to new heights. In fact, we would later see that Piccolo was on the level of Artificial Human #17 and was only on the losing end of their battle because they were so even that Piccolo could not end the battle before his stamina began to wane.
Artificial Human #17 (185,000,000): Like with his elder sister, #17 is most dangerous because he has unlimited stamina. With regards to #18, any difference between their strength is probably minute and incalculable.
Artificial Human #16 (190,000,000): Artificial Human #16 seems to be a good head taller (well, stronger) than his two traveling companions. In fact, he even held a solid advantage over Cell! If he hadn’t been distracted and Cell had not absorbed #17 it is foreseeable that #16 would have killed Cell.
Second Form Cell (195,000,000): Second Form Cell wastes no time in clearly knocking Artificial Human #16 out of commission. Considering the following gap between he and Vegeta it is no surprise that his power would only reach this far.
Super Saiyan Grade II Vegeta (200,000,000): After spending one year training within the Room of Spirit & Time Vegeta emerged with a new take on Super Saiyan that made him bigger and stronger. If Vegeta had taken Cell seriously he would have easily turned him into the next Kewi.
Super Saiyan Grade II Future Trunks (200,000,000): From what we see of Trunks’ performance against not only his own father, but Second Form Cell, it would appear that Trunks was of nigh indistinguishable level with that of his father’s. Any advantage held by Vegeta would’ve been thanks to his experiences and training.
Complete Form Cell (205,000,000): Having achieved his completed form, Cell proves that he is quite capable of dealing Vegeta a dose of his own medicine and defeating him in two effortless blows.
Super Saiyan Grade III Future Trunks (210,000,000): Trunks gains a clear advantage over Cell with this transformation, but as noticed by both Vegeta and Gokuu, the form adds to much muscle and mass and thus drastically cuts down on speed. The form also appears to be nothing more than a strain on the body, which probably means that even if Trunks began with a higher battle power it would not last for long and his ki control would be haphazard at best, leading to even further waste.

The Cell Game:

Complete Cell (215,000,000): Basically, Cell lied when he told Trunks that he was technically stronger than him.
Full Power Super Saiyan Son Gokuu (213,000,000): Vegeta and Trunks seemed amazed by how Gokuu was now able to outpace both of them, even after they trained for an extra year in the Room of Spirit & Time. Still, Gokuu was quite confident that he was still a step behind Cell, so a two million point difference sounds just about right.
Full Power Super Saiyan Son Gohan (217,000,000): Gohan was both unimpressed by Gokuu and Cell when he saw them do battle. Even though Gohan didn’t put up much of a fight at first it is likely that even without unlocking his hidden power he could have still defeated Cell if he had applied himself.
Super Saiyan 2 Son Gohan (225,000,000): Drawing out his full power by willingly attempting to kill Cell, Gohan’s fullest power is appeared to be no different than that of Vegeta and Kewi in the end.
Super Perfect Cell (220,000,000): Even after surviving a near-death experience Cell still appeared to be a step behind the injured Gohan.

The Twenty-Fifth Tenka’ichi Budoukai:

Super Saiyan 2 Son Gohan (220,000,000): Having not trained seriously in seven years, Son Gohan is now weaker than he was when he battled Cell. Still, Gohan is able to put up a pretty good fight against Darbra at this point. He probably would have lost if the battle had not been interrupted, unless Gohan was able to regain some of his former strength by getting angry.
Darbra (220,000,000): Darbra is said to be on Cell’s level but nothing is ever specifically said one way or the other.
Super Saiyan 2 Son Gokuu (230,000,000): Vegeta mentioned that Gokuu now seemed even stronger than Gohan had been ‘back then’.
Super Saiyan 2 Majin Vegeta (230,000,000): Vegeta appeared to be on the level of Gokuu, who was now supposedly more powerful than Gohan was against Cell.
Fat Majin Buu (240,000,000): Majin Buu made play things of both Darbra, Son Gohan and Vegeta.
Super Saiyan 3 Son Gokuu (243,000,000): Gokuu would later say that he “probably could have defeated the fat Buu” using Super Saiyan 3.

The Genocidal Rampage of Majin Buu:

Super Saiyan Gotenks (248,000,000): Gokuu seemed pretty confident that a fusion of Goten and Trunks would be strong enough to defeat Majin Buu. After training in the Room of Spirit & Time Gotenks’ power would’ve increased, too.
Evil Majin Buu (248,000,000): After absorbing the ‘Pure’ Majin Buu this new muscular Majin Buu seemed to be much stronger than the old Majin Buu and strong enough to give Gotenks a run for his money, even if Gotenks’ attacks packed a punch.
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks (260,000,000): Gotenks had no problem slapping Majin Buu around now.
Ultimate Gohan (265,000,000): More powerful than even Gotenks!
Majin Buu (Gotenks-absorbed: 275,000,000): Little indication exists to say that Majin Buu’s absorbing added to his power or merely increased it. As such, this list shall assume it merely provides a big increase in power, rather than a full addition.
Majin Buu (Gohan-absorbed: 280,000,000): At this point, Gotenks has de-fused; therefore it is likely that this Gohan-absorbed form is only a little stronger than he was when he outfought Gohan.
Super Saiyan Vegetto (287,000,000): Vegetto had no problem walking all over Majin Buu. He could’ve easily Kewie’d Majin Buu at any moment.
Pure Majin Buu (242,000,000): Super Saiyan 3 Gokuu basically fought on even ground with this form. It’s likely that if Gokuu had his full stamina when he tried to bring his fullest power to the forefront that he could have won. This Majin Buu is also stronger than his ‘fat’ counterpart.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:26 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
One big problem with this list is that your gaps are way too short. Yes, Vegeta killed Cui easily, but that's because he was x1.3 stronger than him. Here in your gaps you put them too close, an example is Vegeta beating with no effort to Semi Perfect Cell, yet you put them in a gap of x1.02 or something like that. It's too small. There are also the x50, x2 and x4 multipliers for SSJ, SSJ2 and SSJ3 that you can use, though perhaps you don't have to be obligated for using them.

King Cold is not stronger than Frieza, Frieza said himself he was the strongest in the universe in the manga, and the guides also said that he was stronger than his father.

Piccolo (pre Nail) is much stronger than SSJ Goku from Namek (and possibly SSJ Goku from Yardrat), and then has a X2 boost from his fusion with Kami since it was stated in the manga that Piccolo doubles his strength when fusing with Kami.

Also, SSJ Goku from the Cell Games at his 50% should be above SSJ Grade II Vegeta. That's stated clearly in the manga. Vegeta entered the ROSAT and then left it and was confident that he surpassed both Goku and Cell (initial)'s strength.

Apart from that, most of your character's positions of "who is stronger than who" are indeed correct, but as I said previously, the gaps shouldn't be that short so the list doesn't get affected. A gap with less than x1.125 should already be considered as a good fight.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:19 pm

JulieYBM wrote:.
Power levels work on percentages/multipliers though, otherwise Goku/Piccolo vs Raditz would've been a really even fight as the difference was ~800 points at worst. 50% Goku > Cell who pwned Vegeta btw.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:50 pm

Dragon Ball is very inconsistent in how it handles strength. While I will try and make some changes soon I defend the idea that these numbers don't need to be very high.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:32 am

That's kind of the reason i'm thinking about quiting BPs. Though the power gaps in general can work rather well i'd say, but you have to ignore some little inconsistences here and there to make it work.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:06 am

JulieYBM wrote:I call it...The Kewi Theory. A form of determining battle powers based on the six thousand point gap between Kewi (18,000) and Vegeta (24,000) when the former was effortlessly killed by the latter. It's not perfect, but the intended effect is to reduce the gross inflation in numbers. As a result, The Kewi Theory also ignores the so-called 'power multipliers' of transformations, as those were never specified in the comic as it is. Without further ado, The Kewi Theory:

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by nickzambuto » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:23 am

Unfortunately the Kiwi theory doesn't work, because for as many examples as we can find of small power gaps resulting in stomps, we can find just as many examples of the opposite, where large power gaps resulted in intensely close battles. SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza is probably the most intense battle in the series, and that was a bigger gap than Vegeta and Kiwi. Goku vs Nappa is another example.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:42 am

nickzambuto wrote:Unfortunately the Kiwi theory doesn't work, because for as many examples as we can find of small power gaps resulting in stomps, we can find just as many examples of the opposite, where large power gaps resulted in intensely close battles. SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza is probably the most intense battle in the series, and that was a bigger gap than Vegeta and Kiwi. Goku vs Nappa is another example.
I don't think neither are good examples as both fights can have their BPs disregarded as guidebook numbers, mainly Nappa's fight.

I agree the Kiwi theory sucks though. I don't see any reason to try to nerf gaps like that when the gaps given on Namek imply even 1.1x is enough to stomp a foe.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:32 am

My take on a what if scenario for Broly's power levels in Dragon Ball Z: Broly - Second Coming.

Broly: 850 million

Super Saiyan Broly: 1.6 billion

Legendary Super Saiyan Broly: 2.150 billion

Legendary Super Saiyan 2 Broly: 3.450 billion

With the boost in power level shown below being of what Broly's transformations give him.

C-Type Super Saiyan: 750 million

Super Saiyan (Final Form): 1.3 billion

Super Saiyan 2 (Final Form): 2.6 billion

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Almighty Majin » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:56 pm

Does it have to be just power levels here? Are tier lists allowed?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:04 pm

Go ahead. If you wanted to make a list based on how each character scaled to Raditz, nobody would stop you.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:29 pm

DanielSSJ wrote:Go ahead. If you wanted to make a list based on how each character scaled to Raditz, nobody would stop you.
I wouldn't be so sure about that.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:04 am

TheUltimateNinja wrote:I wouldn't be so sure about that.
I think that if the original poster can get away with a "Raditzes list", there isn't much we can't do here.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Almighty Majin » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:55 pm

Strongest characters per saga/arc then:

Boyhood:
[spoiler]Monster Carrot
Master Roshi
Goku
Fused Pilaf Machine
Nam
Krillin
Yamcha
Chi-Chi
Ox King
Launch
Giran
Bacterian
Puar
Ranfan
Oolong
Bear Thief[/spoiler]

Red Ribbon Army:
[spoiler]Grandpa Gohan
Goku
Korin
Staff Officer Black (Battle Jacket)
Spike the Devilman
Mercenary Tao
Bandages the Mummy
General Blue
Android 8
Pirate Robot
Krillin
Yamcha
Buyon
Bora
Major Metallitron
See-Through the Invisible Man
Fangs the Vampire
Ninja Murasaki
Colonel Silver
General White[/spoiler]

22nd Tenkaichi Budokai/King Piccolo:
[spoiler]Master Roshi
Goku
King Piccolo
Drum
Tien
Yajirobe
Tambourine
Cymbal
Krillin
Chiaotzu
King Chappa
Man-Wolf
Pamput[/spoiler]

23rd Tenkaichi Budokai/Saiyan:
[spoiler]Vegeta
Goku
Nappa
Kaio
Piccolo
Tien
Krillin
Gohan
Yamcha
Chiaotzu
Raditz
Yajirobe
Saibamen
Kami
Cyborg Tao
Chi-Chi[/spoiler]

Namek:
[spoiler]Goku
Freeza
Vegeta
Piccolo
Gohan
Ginyu
Krillin
Jeice
Burter
Nail
Recoome
Guldo
Zarbon
Dodoria
Cui
Appule[/spoiler]

Android:
[spoiler]Gohan
Cell
Goku
Future Trunks
Vegeta
Cell Jr.
Piccolo
Android 16
Future Cell
Android 17
Android 18
Future Gohan
Future Android 17
Future Android 18
Android 20
Android 19
Mecha Freeza
King Cold
Mr. Satan[/spoiler]

Majin:
[spoiler]Vegetto
Super Buu
Gohan
Gotenks
Daikaioshin
Goku
Southern Kaioshin
Kid Buu
Thin Buu
Majin Buu
Vegeta
West Kaioshin
North Kaioshin
Kibitoshin
Dabura
Shin
Piccolo
Bibidi/Babidi
Goten/Trunks
Yakon
Android 18
Kibito
Krillin
Tien
Pui Pui
Yamu
Spopovich
Videl
Mr. Satan[/spoiler]

BoG:
[spoiler]Whis
Beerus
Goku
Vegeta
Gohan
Gotenks
Majin Buu
Chief Moginaian
Piccolo
Goten/Trunks
Android 18
Krillin
Tien
Yamcha[/spoiler]

FnF:
[spoiler]Whis
Beerus
Freeza
Goku/Vegeta
Gohan
Ginyu
Gotenks
Tagoma
Shisami
Piccolo
Krillin
Master Roshi
Tien
Jaco[/spoiler]

U6:
[spoiler]Vados
Whis
Beerus
Champa
Hit
Goku
Vegeta/Copy Vegeta
Magetta
Cabba
Gohan
Frost
Piccolo
Gotenks
Botamo
Goten/Trunks
Gryll/Copy Gryll[/spoiler]

FT:
[spoiler]Zeno/Future Zeno
Grand Priest
Vados
Whis
Beerus
Champa
Vegetto
Merged Zamasu
Future Trunks
Arale
Goku
Hit
Goku Black
Vegeta
Future Zamasu
Zamasu
Magetta
Cabba
Gohan
Piccolo
Watagashi
Krillin
Botamo
Yamcha[/spoiler]

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by miguelnuva1 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:55 pm

Can someone give me there king piccolo and 23rd budokai power levels. Curious to aee how people compare them to the boz and Raditz fight.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:12 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote:Can someone give me there king piccolo and 23rd budokai power levels. Curious to aee how people compare them to the boz and Raditz fight.
Doubt that's possible, scouter numbers are incompatible with Part I's power scaling.
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