Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Chapter: 348 (DBZ 154), P6.1
Context: after Piccolo says Super Saiyan Vegeta might beat No.17 and No.18
Trunks: “I-I was able to become a Super Saiyan too…B-but, I was absolutely no match for them…They’re stupendously strong…”

Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.5
Context: Trunks compares No.17 and No.18 in his timeline to the ones in the present
Trunks: “They weren’t as outrageously strong as this…Even I could fight them fairly well…”

What you guys make of these statements? In a matter of a few chapters Trunks goes from "I was absolutely no match" for "I could fight them fairly well". It's important to note both are after Trunks returns to the present to fight the androids.

[Hugo Boss]

What you guys make of these statements? In a matter of a few chapters Trunks goes from "I was absolutely no match" for "I could fight them fairly well". It's important to note both are after Trunks returns to the present to fight the androids.

He is basically telling that while he was no match for the future androids, he wasn’t done in with a single strike. He could at least put a fight.

[LightBing]

Chapter: 348 (DBZ 154), P6.1
Context: after Piccolo says Super Saiyan Vegeta might beat No.17 and No.18
Trunks: “I-I was able to become a Super Saiyan too…B-but, I was absolutely no match for them…They’re stupendously strong…”

Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.5
Context: Trunks compares No.17 and No.18 in his timeline to the ones in the present
Trunks: “They weren’t as outrageously strong as this…Even I could fight them fairly well…”

What you guys make of these statements? In a matter of a few chapters Trunks goes from "I was absolutely no match" for "I could fight them fairly well". It's important to note both are after Trunks returns to the present to fight the androids.

I think you know my general take on Trunks power level during this time.
Regardless the first quote context is Vegeta saying he's a Super Saiyan and therefore we'll kill #17 and #18 not caring about stopping their activation. Trunks is pretty much saying how it doesn't matter if one is Super Saiyan against the Androids they transcend it so to speak. All this wrapped around in his fear of them and reliance on Goku. It's a general take.

Only latter do we get into specifics, with Trunks surprised by his father power who's doing a pretty decent job against #18. In my opinion the latter quote doesn't contradict the previous one.

[PFM18]

Yeah so I was wondering what you guys thought of my power levels during the Cell saga.

First I have the actual power levels :
[spoiler]Future Trunks Super Saiyan: 157.5 Million
Post Namek Goku Super Saiyan: 180 Million
Super Saiyan Vegeta: 207 Million
Android 18: 310 Million
Android 17: 335 Million
Imperfect Cell(pre-absorption): 268 Million
Super Namekian Piccolo: 342 Million
Android 16: 469 Million
Imperfect Cell(post-absorption): 474 Million
Semi-perfect Cell: 1214 Million
Super Vegeta: 2064 Million
Super Trunks: 1961 Million
Perfect form Cell(Suppressed): 2890 Million
Ultra Trunks: 2942 Million
Mastered Super Saiyan Goku: 5161 Million
Full-Powered Perfect form Cell: 7741 Million
Mastered Super Saiyan Gohan: 5677 Million
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan: 11353 Million
Super Perfect Cell: 10786 Million
Super Saiyan Trunks(Cell games): 2942 Million
Super Saiyan Vegeta(Cell games): 3096 Million
Piccolo(Cell Games) 1710 Million[/spoiler]

I don't bother with the ton of zeros because it looks messy to me and it is harder to read than this way.


Then I have the power in more of a ratio form where he number X is X number of times stronger than SSJ Goku on Namek:
[spoiler]Future Trunks Super Saiyan: 1.05
Post-Namek Goku Super Saiyan Goku: 1.2
Super Saiyan Vegeta: 1.38
Android 18: 2.07
Android 17: 2.24
Imperfect Cell(pre-absorption): 1.79
Super Namekian Piccolo: 2.28
Android 16: 3.13
Imperfect Cell(post-absorption): 3.16
Semi-perfect Cell: 8.1
Super Vegeta: 13.76
Super Trunks: 13.07
Perfect form Cell(Suppressed): 19.27
Ultra Trunks: 19.61
Mastered Super Saiyan Goku: 34.4
Full-Powered Perfect form Cell: 51.61
Mastered Super Saiyan Gohan: 37.84
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan: 75.69
Super Perfect Cell: 71.9
Super Saiyan Trunks(Cell games): 19.61
Super Saiyan Vegeta(Cell games): 20.64
Piccolo(Cell Games) 11.4[/spoiler]

Since Vegeta laughed when Goku said he would have to become 10x stronger if he wanted to beat Cell at the time, I tried to keep that difference around 10x from pre-ROSAT to post-ROSAT. Also, since Vegeta was so impressed with Goku's 50% power I pegged Vegeta at 40% of Goku's power and therefore made Goku 2.5x stronger than Vegeta. I do see an issue because Goku and Gohan are getting dangerously close to Namek Freeza when they are supposed to be weaker than him in Base 10 years after this when Beerus shows up.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

He is basically telling that while he was no match for the future androids, he wasn’t done in with a single strike. He could at least put a fight.

I think you know my general take on Trunks power level during this time.
Regardless the first quote context is Vegeta saying he's a Super Saiyan and therefore we'll kill #17 and #18 not caring about stopping their activation. Trunks is pretty much saying how it doesn't matter if one is Super Saiyan against the Androids they transcend it so to speak. All this wrapped around in his fear of them and reliance on Goku. It's a general take.

Only latter do we get into specifics, with Trunks surprised by his father power who's doing a pretty decent job against #18. In my opinion the latter quote doesn't contradict the previous one.

Seems reasonable for me. He's no match, but he can at least put up some resistense. Seems something like Goku vs Cell or a bit worse type of fight. Trunks isn't matching them, but is able to land a few blows.

Btw, LightBing, i'm aware of your belief that SSJ Trunks was stronger than SSJ Goku from Yardrat. Care to explain why? A while ago i had a brief debate with someone who believed they were equals and the idea seems really interesting for me.

[DokkanScale]

Are you kidding? How Monaka can be that strong? lol

He one shot Hit, and he was at like 0% cause he was scared of being disqualified for killing.

[DanielSSJ]

Seems reasonable for me. He's no match, but he can at least put up some resistense. Seems something like Goku vs Cell or a bit worse type of fight. Trunks isn't matching them, but is able to land a few blows.

Btw, LightBing, i'm aware of your belief that SSJ Trunks was stronger than SSJ Goku from Yardrat. Care to explain why? A while ago i had a brief debate with someone who believed they were equals and the idea seems really interesting for me.

I've adopted the "Trunks was stronger than Yardrat Goku" perspective recently, and at least in my case, it's mostly about keeping Trunks up to speed with the three-years-later Super Saiyans despite having significantly less time and resources to train. That, and Trunks has been a Super Saiyan for a lot longer than Goku, and he's been training to beat the droids since he was a kid. All in all, it makes a lot of sense for Trunks to be the stronger one.

[SuperSaiyanMastaDon]

Master Roshi Saga Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTpDZNHybl4&t

Demon King Saga Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJVDTm8wZsM&t





Son Goku & Friends



Turtle .000001
Pu'ar .0015
Oolong .002
Bulma .003
Pterodactyl .015
Bear Bandit .018
Krillin .030
Yamcha .045
Ox King .100

Goku (W/o Tail) .040
~ W/ Tail .050
~ Great Ape .500

Master Roshi .125
~ Power Weighted .750
~ Power Weighted Kamehameha 1.000




21st Budokai Tenkaichi



Orin Temple Bullies .036

Yamcha .060
~ Wolf Fang Fist .070

Giran .090

Krillin (Initial) .075
~ Full Power .100

Namu .140

Goku (W/o Tail) .120
~ W/ Tail .150
~ Kamehameha .200
~ Great Ape 1.500

Jackie Chun (Initial) .080
~ Using Effort .100
~ Full Power .150
~ Kamehameha .200
~ Powered Weighted 1.000
~ Power Weighted Kamehameha 2.000




Red Ribbon Army Saga



Colonel Silver .075
Ninja Murasaki .100
Pirate Robot .120
Sergeant Metallic .125
Bora .130
General Blue .135
Android #8 .200

Goku (Muscle Tower) .160
~ Post Muscle Tower .180
~ Kamehameha .240

Tao Pai Pai (Initial) .350
~ Full Power .450

Goku (Post Korin Training) .500




Uranai Baba's Tournament



Dracula Man .045
Invisible Man .055

Yamcha .060
~ Wolf Fang Fist .070

Krillin .100

Master Roshi .150

Mummy .175

Devil Man .300

Gohan .475

Goku (Initial) .275
~ Powered Up .350
~ Full Power .500


The Great Demon King Piccolo


[−] Spoiler
22nd Tenkaichi Budokai



Panput .200

King Chappa .550

Chaozu .600

Yamcha .600
~ Wolf Fang Fist (v2.0) .725
~ Kamehameha .800

Krillin .625
~ Kamehameha .700

Master Tsuru 1.000

Jackie Chun (Initial) .900
~ Powered Up 1.100
~ Full Power (Unseen) 1.350

Goku (Initial) .650
~ Powered Up .900
~ Max Match Level 1.500
~ Battle Level 2.250

Tien (Initial) .600
~ Powered Up .750
~ Powered Up Further .900
~ Powered Up Further 1.100
~ Powered Up Further 1.500
~ Full Power 2.200
~ Kikoho 4,000




Piccolo Daimao Saga



Tambourine 2.000

Goku (Fatigued) 1.750
~ Full Power 3.000
~ Kamehameha 4.000

Piccolo Daimao (Initial) 2.750
~ Less than Half 7.500
~ Full Power (Unseen) 17.500




Piccolo Daimao (Flashback)


Tsuru 3.000

Roshi 3.000

Master Mutaito 3.500

Piccolo Daimao 10,000
~ Full Power (Unseen) 17,500





Piccolo Daimao Saga Part 2



Tien 2.200

Drum (Initial) 3.000
~ Full Power 3.500

Shenron 20.000

Piccolo Daimao (Initial) 30.000
~ Full Power 47.500

Goku (Initial) 32.500
~ Full Power 50.000




Meeting God



Goku 50.000

Mr. Popo 75.000

Kami 150.000




23rd Tenkaichi Budokai



King Chappa 5.000

Chaozu 15.000

Yajirobe 25.000

Chichi 27.500

Cyborg Tao Pai Pai 32.500

Yamcha 35.000

Krillin 37.500

Tien (Initial Speed/Power) 50.000/60.000
~ Full Speed/Power 60.000

Shen (Initial) 50.000
~ Full Power 120.000

Kami 150.000

Piccolo (Initial) 40.000
~ Powered Up 50.000
~ Powered Up Further 200.000
~ Full Power 250.000

Goku (Weighted Speed/Power) 50.000/60.000
~ W/o Weights (Initial) 90.000
~ Powered Up 200.000
~ Full Power 250.000
~ Super Kamehameha 375.000

[LightBing]

Btw, LightBing, i'm aware of your belief that SSJ Trunks was stronger than SSJ Goku from Yardrat. Care to explain why? A while ago i had a brief debate with someone who believed they were equals and the idea seems really interesting for me.

I'll give you the short version, don't feel like digging up the more complete version with quotes.

From the top:

1. Goku vs Trunks doesn't favor anyone, however after calling Goku great the latter returns the compliment by saying "you were holding back after all".
2. The question of the time. It's unreasonable for Trunks to have similar gains to Goku who trained for 3 years in just 8 months, the time he had to wait for the time-machine to recharge. It's mentioned how Trunks isn't that far down from Android Arc Goku and Vegeta.
3. The order of events. Trunks story represents his growth and accepting his mother way as the answer, meaning no more suicide missions against the Androids. Which means the last time he should have fought is in Trunks Story right before coming to the present. So when Trunks says he can fight a Future Android "fairly well" that's representative of his power level at that moment.

That's the gist of it. I don't think I missed anything important.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I've adopted the "Trunks was stronger than Yardrat Goku" perspective recently, and at least in my case, it's mostly about keeping Trunks up to speed with the three-years-later Super Saiyans despite having significantly less time and resources to train. That, and Trunks has been a Super Saiyan for a lot longer than Goku, and he's been training to beat the droids since he was a kid. All in all, it makes a lot of sense for Trunks to be the stronger one.

Trunks having Super Saiyan for longer than Goku is definitely something here. He's also a half Saiyan, what gives him more potential than Goku.

There are a few issues with this point of view though. The exact reason Trunks goes to the past is because he's unable to defeat the androids. Whe tells Goku he was powerless against them and says Goku's power is giving him a little hope. While you could chalk it up to Trunks beliving in Bulma's description of Goku as someone who can always solve problems, Gohan also described Goku as the most powerful warrior to exist. Trunks saying Goku is beyond the rumors heavily implies Goku is stronger than what he expected, and he already expected Goku to be stronger than him.

I'll give you the short version, don't feel like digging up the more complete version with quotes.

From the top:
Goku vs Trunks doesn't favor anyone, however after calling Goku great the latter returns the compliment by saying "you were holding back after all".
The question of the time. It's unreasonable for Trunks to have similar gains to Goku who trained for 3 years in just 8 months, the time he had to wait for the time-machine to recharge. It's mentioned how Trunks isn't that far down from Android Arc Goku and Vegeta.
The order of events. Trunks story represents his growth and accepting his mother way as the answer, meaning no more suicide missions against the Androids. Which means the last time he should have fought is in Trunks Story right before coming to the present. So when Trunks says he can fight a Future Android "fairly well" that's representative of his power level at that moment.

That's the gist of it. I don't think I missed anything important.

I don't think these really are issues.
A) So was Goku though. He doesn't break a sweat to deflect Trunks's blows.
B) I wouldn't think so. Trunks is a hybrid and has a lot more potential than Goku has, he can get better gains than Goku if they're doing the same type of training. Goku's train was also slowed down by the fact he's training with Gohan and Piccolo, who are considerably below his base form.
C)

See what i told DanielSSJ on the matter above btw. Trunks is going to the past because he utterly can't beat the twins, and Goku's power gives him a little hope.

[PFM18]

Yeah so I was wondering what you guys thought of my power levels during the Cell saga.

First I have the actual power levels :
[spoiler]Future Trunks Super Saiyan: 157.5 Million
Post Namek Goku Super Saiyan: 180 Million
Super Saiyan Vegeta: 207 Million
Android 18: 310 Million
Android 17: 335 Million
Imperfect Cell(pre-absorption): 268 Million
Super Namekian Piccolo: 342 Million
Android 16: 469 Million
Imperfect Cell(post-absorption): 474 Million
Semi-perfect Cell: 1214 Million
Super Vegeta: 2064 Million
Super Trunks: 1961 Million
Perfect form Cell(Suppressed): 2890 Million
Ultra Trunks: 2942 Million
Mastered Super Saiyan Goku: 5161 Million
Full-Powered Perfect form Cell: 7741 Million
Mastered Super Saiyan Gohan: 5677 Million
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan: 11353 Million
Super Perfect Cell: 10786 Million
Super Saiyan Trunks(Cell games): 2942 Million
Super Saiyan Vegeta(Cell games): 3096 Million
Piccolo(Cell Games) 1710 Million[/spoiler]

I don't bother with the ton of zeros because it looks messy to me and it is harder to read than this way.


Then I have the power in more of a ratio form where he number X is X number of times stronger than SSJ Goku on Namek:
[spoiler]Future Trunks Super Saiyan: 1.05
Post-Namek Goku Super Saiyan Goku: 1.2
Super Saiyan Vegeta: 1.38
Android 18: 2.07
Android 17: 2.24
Imperfect Cell(pre-absorption): 1.79
Super Namekian Piccolo: 2.28
Android 16: 3.13
Imperfect Cell(post-absorption): 3.16
Semi-perfect Cell: 8.1
Super Vegeta: 13.76
Super Trunks: 13.07
Perfect form Cell(Suppressed): 19.27
Ultra Trunks: 19.61
Mastered Super Saiyan Goku: 34.4
Full-Powered Perfect form Cell: 51.61
Mastered Super Saiyan Gohan: 37.84
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan: 75.69
Super Perfect Cell: 71.9
Super Saiyan Trunks(Cell games): 19.61
Super Saiyan Vegeta(Cell games): 20.64
Piccolo(Cell Games) 11.4[/spoiler]

Since Vegeta laughed when Goku said he would have to become 10x stronger if he wanted to beat Cell at the time, I tried to keep that difference around 10x from pre-ROSAT to post-ROSAT. Also, since Vegeta was so impressed with Goku's 50% power I pegged Vegeta at 40% of Goku's power and therefore made Goku 2.5x stronger than Vegeta. I do see an issue because Base Goku and Base Gohan are getting dangerously close to Namek Freeza when they are supposed to be weaker than him in Base 10 years after this when Beerus shows up.

Yeah so is anybody going to review my powerlevels or what?

[Hugo Boss]

Yeah so is anybody going to review my powerlevels or what?

I just noted that your figure for SS2 Gohan, if divided by 100 (using the 50-fold for SS and the 2-fold for SS2), would be about over 110 million, which would make Base Gohan very close to Freeza’s figure of 120 million and give little room for Goku to be stronger than Gohan and be still not quite at the level that he can face Freeza without resorting to any sort of transformation. So, I would probably shrink those gaps a lot. Thinking that Base Goku by the Boo Arc would have a powerlevel of over 50 million seems crazy for me. I would work around the idea that he has much less than that.

[apex_pretador]

Regarding Dabura - is everyone going to forget that he was beating up a post Z sword training SS Trunks and shin at the same time? And even after Trunks achieved SS2, it took a team effort to defeat him?

To me it makes everything clear that Gohan was meant to be SS2.

[Kaboom]

Regarding Dabura - is everyone going to forget that he was beating up a post Z sword training SS Trunks and shin at the same time? And even after Trunks achieved SS2, it took a team effort to defeat him?

To me it makes everything clear that Gohan was meant to be SS2.

All it really shows is the same thing that the original manga did — that a Super Saiyan 1 struggles against Dabra while a Super Saiyan 2 can beat him (especially since Toyotaro knows how to draw SS2 distinctly from SS1, just like Toriyama did). Beyond that, nothing's concrete because we don't know exactly how Trunks and Future-Dabra compare in power to Gohan and Past-Dabra.

[PFM18]

Yeah so is anybody going to review my powerlevels or what?

I just noted that your figure for SS2 Gohan, if divided by 100 (using the 50-fold for SS and the 2-fold for SS2), would be about over 110 million, which would make Base Gohan very close to Freeza’s figure of 120 million and give little room for Goku to be stronger than Gohan and be still not quite at the level that he can face Freeza without resorting to any sort of transformation. So, I would probably shrink those gaps a lot. Thinking that Base Goku by the Boo Arc would have a powerlevel of over 50 million seems crazy for me. I would work around the idea that he has much less than that.

I have to make the gaps that large for the statements to make sense. I could and probably will make them slightly smaller but I don't know where to change the calculations. But why would it seem crazy for Boo Arc Goku to be over 50M in his Base Form? he went from being far weaker than far weaker than 17 and 18 to being on par with the Suppressed Perfect Form Cell. For him to go from slightly stronger than Freeza at 3M in Base to being on par with Suppressed Cell that has to yield atleast a 30x increase in power.(If you go by astronomy/destructive capabilities it would have to be 3,000x stronger but that is dumb.) Then he trains for 7 years after that and gets much stronger. The way that I rationalize it is that Goku was around 120M in Base when he fought Beerus but since it was around that level then Beerus wasn't sure if he could beat Freeza.

For me to make these numbers work then Vegeta has to be about 10x stronger post ROSAT and Goku's 50% ssj has to be signifcantly stronger than him. If we assume that Goku's 50% was about 25% stronger than Vegeta(would qualify as being significant) then we can say that Goku at full power was 2.5x stronger than Vegeta was at the time. So ultimately Goku at the cell games has to be atleast 10*2.5=25 times stronger than when SSJ Vegeta first showed up. So the lowest I can possibly go with Goku's base is 75M and that is assuming that Vegeta's Base wasn't stronger than Goku's base on Namek.

[Hugo Boss]

Yeah so is anybody going to review my powerlevels or what?

I just noted that your figure for SS2 Gohan, if divided by 100 (using the 50-fold for SS and the 2-fold for SS2), would be about over 110 million, which would make Base Gohan very close to Freeza’s figure of 120 million and give little room for Goku to be stronger than Gohan and be still not quite at the level that he can face Freeza without resorting to any sort of transformation. So, I would probably shrink those gaps a lot. Thinking that Base Goku by the Boo Arc would have a powerlevel of over 50 million seems crazy for me. I would work around the idea that he has much less than that.

I have to make the gaps that large for the statements to make sense. I could and probably will make them slightly smaller but I don't know where to change the calculations. But why would it seem crazy for Boo Arc Goku to be over 50M in his Base Form? he went from being far weaker than far weaker than 17 and 18 to being on par with the Suppressed Perfect Form Cell. For him to go from slightly stronger than Freeza at 3M in Base to being on par with Suppressed Cell that has to yield atleast a 30x increase in power.(If you go by astronomy/destructive capabilities it would have to be 3,000x stronger but that is dumb.) Then he trains for 7 years after that and gets much stronger. The way that I rationalize it is that Goku was around 120M in Base when he fought Beerus but since it was around that level then Beerus wasn't sure if he could beat Freeza.

For me to make these numbers work then Vegeta has to be about 10x stronger post ROSAT and Goku's 50% ssj has to be signifcantly stronger than him. If we assume that Goku's 50% was about 25% stronger than Vegeta(would qualify as being significant) then we can say that Goku at full power was 2.5x stronger than Vegeta was at the time. So ultimately Goku at the cell games has to be atleast 10*2.5=25 times stronger than when SSJ Vegeta first showed up. So the lowest I can possibly go with Goku's base is 75M and that is assuming that Vegeta's Base wasn't stronger than Goku's base on Namek.

Beerus implies Goku has no chance against Freeza, which would be weird if they had equal battle powers. By my standards, anything below 100 million is acceptable. But I personally think it should be far below to be easy to note.

Then, the gaps. You put a considerable difference between SS Vegeta and No.18, when it was implied the stamina was the main issue Vegeta had in that fight. Also, second-form Cell, what does make you think the power-up was that huge? It follows up that Super Vegeta is almost 2 times as strong as well.

Personally, the androids up to No.16 would have a powerlevel around 200~350 millions. Cell’s 2nd form would be about 400~500 millions. Super Vegeta possibly over 500 millions. Goku at over 1.2 billion and Gohan at 2.5 billion in his SS2 form. Cell would stack somewhere between Goku and Gohan. This way, Base Gohan would have a battle power of 25 million. By extension, Goku can become stronger up to 35 million maybe and not be a threat to Freeza.

[SuperSaiyanMastaDon]

Super Saiyan Vegeta 1,500
Super Saiyan Goku 1,450
Super Saiyan Trunks 1,300
Metal Cooler 1,250
Piccolo 1,125
Sick Goku 1,000
M5 Goku 900
Yardrat Goku 750
Trunks 600
Shredder Cooler 600
Mecha Freeza 400
Goku Namek 375
Freeza 350
Cooler 300
King Cold 250

[jeffbr92]

[spoiler]Super Saiyan Vegeta 1,500
Super Saiyan Goku 1,450
Super Saiyan Trunks 1,300
Metal Cooler 1,250
Piccolo 1,125
Sick Goku 1,000
M5 Goku 900
Yardrat Goku 750
Trunks 600
Shredder Cooler 600
Mecha Freeza 400
Goku Namek 375
Freeza 350
Cooler 300
King Cold 250[/spoiler]

Any reason for you to have these characters to be below Raditz?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Any reason for you to have these characters to be below Raditz?

Uh... Pretty sure it's a scale of 1 = 1 million. He's just cutting the unecessary zeroes.

[apex_pretador]

Regarding Dabura - is everyone going to forget that he was beating up a post Z sword training SS Trunks and shin at the same time? And even after Trunks achieved SS2, it took a team effort to defeat him?

To me it makes everything clear that Gohan was meant to be SS2.

All it really shows is the same thing that the original manga did — that a Super Saiyan 1 struggles against Dabra while a Super Saiyan 2 can beat him

A post Z sword training Super Saiyan Trunks should be stronger than a pre Z-sword training Gohan, and him and shin combined were losing to Dabura. And Super Saiyan 2 struggled to beat him.

(especially since Toyotaro knows how to draw SS2 distinctly from SS1, just like Toriyama did). Beyond that, nothing's concrete because we don't know exactly how Trunks and Future-Dabra compare in power to Gohan and Past-Dabra.

Why would past and future dabra would be any different? And post Z sword training Trunks should be a lot stronger than pre Z-sword training Gohan. Remember how Gohan got a lot stronger in a few hours by Z sword training? trunks very likely trained for longer