Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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RandomGuy96
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:29 pm

Fun fact from Daizenshuu 7.
Barrier
First Appearance: Chapter 367
Category: ki manipulation
People: Artificial Human No.17, Cell, Vegetto
Special Characteristics: A technique where they use ki to create a barrier around themselves, guarding against their opponents’ attacks. It can guard against ki attacks, as well as physical attacks such as missiles. What’s more, Vegetto succeeded in avoiding being absorbed by Majin Buu (evil). However, in order to use Barrier, they must constantly emit ki. In order to cancel out the physical attacks and ki attacks of their opponents, they must emit at least twice their opponents’ ki.
This confirms two things:

1. If you're emitting twice your opponent's power, their attacks will do exactly zero damage on part of being totally canceled out. Takes Raditz at 1,500 and Piccolo at 408 at the beginning of the series. Raditz is emitting that battle power just by standing there, acting as a passive defense. Piccolo exerts his 408 battle power offensively. He punches or blasts Raditz. Raditz's passive defense falls substantially above the 816 minimum to completely cancel out Piccolo's attack. Raditz takes zero damage.

2. If you are equal to your opponent, you can amplify your defense much like you could amplify your offense, as seen when 17 takes no damage from the Hellzone Grenade. Say Piccolo and 17 both have battle powers of 300 million; this is their default battle power when standing around or throwing a regular punch. Piccolo throws a bunch of small energy balls, each with a battle power of about 300 million (i.e. same energy/time as his normal blows) and about the same volume as his fist. These are equivalent to his punches. 17 engages his active defense and boosts the ki he's emitting to defend himself from 300 million to 600 million. He sustains this as Piccolo's energy balls, each with a battle power of 300 million, are canceled out along the surface area of 17's ki defenses, doing no damage. On the other hand, were Piccolo to charge up a Special Beam Cannon and fire it at a battle power of e.g. 900 million, its power/intensity would greatly exceed 17's active defense, and would breach his ki defenses and subsequently drastically damage his body.

Another thing to note: in this case Piccolo's Hellzone Grenade still had far more energy than the Special Beam Cannon, due to the great volume of the combined attack. Just less intensity as a result of a lower energy transference rate, and thus less power. So it fails on 17's defenses regardless.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Potara_Vegetto » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:40 pm

emperior wrote:Multipliers
Oozaru - 10x
Super Saiyan (SSJ) - 50x
Super Saiyan 2 (SSJ2) - 100x
Super Saiyan 3 (SSJ3) - 400x
Super Saiyan God (SSG) - 40,000x
Super Saiyan Blue (SSB) - 50,000x


Dragon Ball Minus

[spoiler]Jaco - 150
Bardock - 2,500
Gine - 1,000

Bardock (Last Stand) - 10,000[/spoiler]


Dragon Ball Z
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:

Dragon Ball Super Power Levels

Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Gohan Ultimate is not as strong as Goku SSB
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:44 am

A thought I just had. When Piccolo gathers a bunch of power into his finger tips, it increases his battle power, explicitly because he's concentrating power into a small volume. When a Saiyan turns into an Oozaru, their surface area increases by several thousand times, and their battle power increases x10, yet they're much stronger than they were before. When someone throws a giant blast at an enemy with hundreds of times the contact area of their fist at about the same power output, it hurts them about as bad relative to its area as their punches do, instead of doing nothing. When scouters actually up readings, they occasionally confuse two adjacent people far away as one power.

All this suggests that the battle power system is a measure of power per unit area, rather than just power period. In other words, the battle power system measures intensity. This may be relevant when trying to classify certain feats using it.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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ahill1
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ahill1 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:16 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Fun fact from Daizenshuu 7.
Barrier
First Appearance: Chapter 367
Category: ki manipulation
People: Artificial Human No.17, Cell, Vegetto
Special Characteristics: A technique where they use ki to create a barrier around themselves, guarding against their opponents’ attacks. It can guard against ki attacks, as well as physical attacks such as missiles. What’s more, Vegetto succeeded in avoiding being absorbed by Majin Buu (evil). However, in order to use Barrier, they must constantly emit ki. In order to cancel out the physical attacks and ki attacks of their opponents, they must emit at least twice their opponents’ ki.
This confirms two things:

1. If you're emitting twice your opponent's power, their attacks will do exactly zero damage on part of being totally canceled out. Takes Raditz at 1,500 and Piccolo at 408 at the beginning of the series. Raditz is emitting that battle power just by standing there, acting as a passive defense. Piccolo exerts his 408 battle power offensively. He punches or blasts Raditz. Raditz's passive defense falls substantially above the 816 minimum to completely cancel out Piccolo's attack. Raditz takes zero damage.

2. If you are equal to your opponent, you can amplify your defense much like you could amplify your offense, as seen when 17 takes no damage from the Hellzone Grenade. Say Piccolo and 17 both have battle powers of 300 million; this is their default battle power when standing around or throwing a regular punch. Piccolo throws a bunch of small energy balls, each with a battle power of about 300 million (i.e. same energy/time as his normal blows) and about the same volume as his fist. These are equivalent to his punches. 17 engages his active defense and boosts the ki he's emitting to defend himself from 300 million to 600 million. He sustains this as Piccolo's energy balls, each with a battle power of 300 million, are canceled out along the surface area of 17's ki defenses, doing no damage. On the other hand, were Piccolo to charge up a Special Beam Cannon and fire it at a battle power of e.g. 900 million, its power/intensity would greatly exceed 17's active defense, and would breach his ki defenses and subsequently drastically damage his body.

Another thing to note: in this case Piccolo's Hellzone Grenade still had far more energy than the Special Beam Cannon, due to the great volume of the combined attack. Just less intensity as a result of a lower energy transference rate, and thus less power. So it fails on 17's defenses regardless.
#17's barrier should have had at least a battle power of 600 millions in order to work as a defense, right? But it could have a BP of around 1 billion, let's say, no?
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:26 pm

ahill1 wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:Fun fact from Daizenshuu 7.
Barrier
First Appearance: Chapter 367
Category: ki manipulation
People: Artificial Human No.17, Cell, Vegetto
Special Characteristics: A technique where they use ki to create a barrier around themselves, guarding against their opponents’ attacks. It can guard against ki attacks, as well as physical attacks such as missiles. What’s more, Vegetto succeeded in avoiding being absorbed by Majin Buu (evil). However, in order to use Barrier, they must constantly emit ki. In order to cancel out the physical attacks and ki attacks of their opponents, they must emit at least twice their opponents’ ki.
This confirms two things:

1. If you're emitting twice your opponent's power, their attacks will do exactly zero damage on part of being totally canceled out. Takes Raditz at 1,500 and Piccolo at 408 at the beginning of the series. Raditz is emitting that battle power just by standing there, acting as a passive defense. Piccolo exerts his 408 battle power offensively. He punches or blasts Raditz. Raditz's passive defense falls substantially above the 816 minimum to completely cancel out Piccolo's attack. Raditz takes zero damage.

2. If you are equal to your opponent, you can amplify your defense much like you could amplify your offense, as seen when 17 takes no damage from the Hellzone Grenade. Say Piccolo and 17 both have battle powers of 300 million; this is their default battle power when standing around or throwing a regular punch. Piccolo throws a bunch of small energy balls, each with a battle power of about 300 million (i.e. same energy/time as his normal blows) and about the same volume as his fist. These are equivalent to his punches. 17 engages his active defense and boosts the ki he's emitting to defend himself from 300 million to 600 million. He sustains this as Piccolo's energy balls, each with a battle power of 300 million, are canceled out along the surface area of 17's ki defenses, doing no damage. On the other hand, were Piccolo to charge up a Special Beam Cannon and fire it at a battle power of e.g. 900 million, its power/intensity would greatly exceed 17's active defense, and would breach his ki defenses and subsequently drastically damage his body.

Another thing to note: in this case Piccolo's Hellzone Grenade still had far more energy than the Special Beam Cannon, due to the great volume of the combined attack. Just less intensity as a result of a lower energy transference rate, and thus less power. So it fails on 17's defenses regardless.
#17's barrier should have had at least a battle power of 600 millions in order to work as a defense, right? But it could have a BP of around 1 billion, let's say, no?
Sure, why not. He wouldn't need anything more than 600 million though. The wording of the statement seems to be that an intensity of defense twice that of the opponent's offense will completely negate any damage (hence "cancel out"), while below that line it would just blunt the damage to varying degrees.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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ahill1
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ahill1 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:17 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Sure, why not. He wouldn't need anything more than 600 million though. The wording of the statement seems to be that an intensity of defense twice that of the opponent's offense will completely negate any damage (hence "cancel out"), while below that line it would just blunt the damage to varying degrees.
What about Freeza's barrier vs SSJ Goku? Was Freeza producing with his barrier a chi 2x above that of Goku SSJ KMHMH or am I wrong? I guess not since it didn't cancel the attack.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:34 pm

ahill1 wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:Sure, why not. He wouldn't need anything more than 600 million though. The wording of the statement seems to be that an intensity of defense twice that of the opponent's offense will completely negate any damage (hence "cancel out"), while below that line it would just blunt the damage to varying degrees.
What about Freeza's barrier vs SSJ Goku? Was Freeza producing with his barrier a chi 2x above that of Goku SSJ KMHMH or am I wrong? I guess not since it didn't cancel the attack.
Well it didn't appear to be doing any damage at all to Freeza, so probably. The problem there is that Freeza couldn't sustain it for as long as Goku could sustain the Kamehameha- he had to output twice the Kamehameha's battle power to cancel it out over every second the Kamehameha was being fired. Since Goku has greater energy reserves to begin with, he can obviously maintain that struggle a lot longer than Freeza can. It's likely Freeza broke off the struggle because he was unable to maintain the same power output per unit area of his barrier, resulting in it in lowering, and potentially just being broken outright if he stayed in the struggle longer.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:01 am

Here are some of my levels from Freeza Arc. Feel free to critique.

[spoiler]Kuririn: 250,000
Gohan: 300,000
Piccolo (Weighted): 270,000
Vegeta: 480,000
Freeza (1st form): 530,000
Freeza (2nd form): 1,060,000
Gohan (Enraged): 900,000
Freeza (Powered up): 1,300,000
Kuririn (Further power up): 500,000
Gohan (Zenkai): 900,000
Piccolo (Merged): 1,350,000
Freeza (Full Power): 1,600,000
Piccolo (Full Power): 1,687,500
Freeza (3rd form): 2,400,000
Gohan (Enraged): 1,800,000
Gohan's Masenko: 2,250,000
Freeza (Final Form): 3,600,000
Vegeta (Zenkai): 3,600,000
Freeza (Tooling Vegeta): 4,800,000
Vegeta's Garlic Gun: 5,400,000
Freeza (Kicking the blast): 6,000,000
Goku (Warming up): 6,000,000
Freeza (Handless): 8,000,000
Goku (Full Power): 7,500,000
50% Freeza: 180,000,000
Kaioken x10 Goku: 75,000,000
Kaioken x20 Goku: 150,000,000
Spirit Bomb: 225,000,000
SSJ Goku: 375,000,000
Full Power Freeza: 360,000,000 and falling[/spoiler]
Battle Powers List (Manga)

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by teengohanisbawse11 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:10 pm

Pilaf Saga Power Levels:

[spoiler]Goku (woods): 10

Bulma: 3

Pterodactyl: 15

Goku (Power Pole): 35

Shu: 4

Pilaf: 3

Mai: 7

Pack of Wolves: 6 each

Turtle: 0.001

Goku (vs. Bear Thief): 45

Bear Thief: 33

Master Roshi (surpressed): 75

Oolong: 2

Yamcha: 44

Puar: 1

Goku (hungry): 40

Yamcha (Wolf Fang Fist): 50

Goku (full stomach): 47

Goku (Jan-Ken-Pon!): 60

T-Rex: 32

Chi-Chi: 38

Ox-King: 104

Master Roshi (buff): 120

Master Roshi (Full Power Kamehameha): 170

Goku (Kamehameha): 60

Rabbit Mob: 5 each

Boss Rabbit: 25

Pilaf: 5

Shu: 6

Mai: 9

Shenron: 135

Goku (Oozaru): 500[/spoiler]


Master Roshi's Training & 21st World Martial Arts Tournament Power Levels

[spoiler]Goku (pre-training): 40

Master Roshi: 85

Krillin: 35

Launch (evil): 10

Launch (good): 4

Krillin (post training): 64

Bacterian: 20

Yamcha (post training): 60

Jackie Chun (suppressed): 90

Ranfan: 50

Nam: 70

Goku (post training): 80

Giran: 70

Goku (tail regrown): 90

Jackie Chun: 95

Goku (Oozaru): 900

Jackie Chun (buff): 140[/spoiler]


Red Ribbon Army Power Levels

[spoiler]Colonel Silver: 29

Major Metallitron: 85

Ninja Murasaki: 35

Android #8: 100

Buyon: 75

Colonel White: 20

Bruce Lee: 13

Pirate Robot: 92

General Blue: 81

Bora: 60

Tao: 110

Korin: 160

Goku (post Korin training): 140

Officer Black: 20

Battle Jacket: 100[/spoiler]

Fortuneteller Baba Saga Power Levels

[spoiler]Fang: 75

Upa: 4

Invisible Man: 40

Mummy Man: 85

Devilman: 100

Grandpa Gohan: 139[/spoiler]


22nd World Martial Arts Tournament Power Levels

[spoiler]King Chappa: 85

Yamcha: 90

Chaiotzu: 90

Pamput: 50

Jackie Chun: 140

Krillin: 115

Tien Shinhan: 180

Goku: 181[/spoiler]


King Piccolo Saga Power Levels

[spoiler]Goku (fatigued): 100

Tambourine: 140

Yajirobe: 150

Drum: 120

Goku (angry): 200

King Piccolo (old): 190

Drum: 150

Goku (after drinking Sacred Water): 260

King Piccolo: 240

Kami: 300

Mr. Popo: 280[/spoiler]


23rd World Martial Arts Tournament Power Levels

[spoiler]King Chappa: 100

Chaiotzu: 105

Cyborg Tao: 180

Tien: 240

Chi-Chi: 100

Krillin: 200

Piccolo (weights): 250

Yamcha: 170

Goku (weights): 300

Goku (no weights): 350

Goku (Super Kamehameha): 910

Giant Piccolo: 400

Super Giant Piccolo: 500

Piccolo (no weights): 320[/spoiler]
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ahill1 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:31 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:Here are some of my levels from Freeza Arc. Feel free to critique.

[spoiler]Kuririn: 250,000
Gohan: 300,000
Piccolo (Weighted): 270,000
Vegeta: 480,000
Freeza (1st form): 530,000
Freeza (2nd form): 1,060,000
Gohan (Enraged): 900,000
Freeza (Powered up): 1,300,000
Kuririn (Further power up): 500,000
Gohan (Zenkai): 900,000
Piccolo (Merged): 1,350,000
Freeza (Full Power): 1,600,000
Piccolo (Full Power): 1,687,500
Freeza (3rd form): 2,400,000
Gohan (Enraged): 1,800,000
Gohan's Masenko: 2,250,000
Freeza (Final Form): 3,600,000
Vegeta (Zenkai): 3,600,000
Freeza (Tooling Vegeta): 4,800,000
Vegeta's Garlic Gun: 5,400,000
Freeza (Kicking the blast): 6,000,000
Goku (Warming up): 6,000,000
Freeza (Handless): 8,000,000
Goku (Full Power): 7,500,000
50% Freeza: 180,000,000
Kaioken x10 Goku: 75,000,000
Kaioken x20 Goku: 150,000,000
Spirit Bomb: 225,000,000
SSJ Goku: 375,000,000
Full Power Freeza: 360,000,000 and falling[/spoiler]
You think Freeza (warming up vs Goku) is a bigger level than what he used to tool Vegeta?
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:54 pm

My list for all of z and super
In my list, boos absorptions are multiplicative. That's confirmed due to ultimate gohans original power being over 100x stronger than ssj3 Gotenks. Retains toriyamas scale for ssjg Goku, beerus and Whis.

Android & Cell arc
[spoiler]Super Saiyan=[50xbase]
Super Saiyan Grade 2=[1.3xSuper Saiyan]/[65xbase]
Super Saiyan Grade 3=[10xSuper Saiyan Grade 2]/[650xbase]
Super Saiyan 2=[2xSuper Saiyan]/[100xbase]

Base Future Goku: 4,900,000
Super Saiyan Future Goku: 245,000,000

Base Future Vegeta: 3,500,000
Super Saiyan Future Vegeta: 175,000,000

Future Piccolo: 3,000,000

Future Krillin: 400,000

Future Tien: 350,000

Future Yamcha: 300,000

Future Kid Trunks: 60,000

Base Future Gohan: 2,100,000
Super Saiyan Future Gohan: 105,000,000

Future #17(Less than half): 106,000,000

Base Future Gohan(Zenkai): 4,800,000
Super Saiyan Future Gohan: 240,000,000

Future Android 17: 210,000,000
Future Android 18: 235,000,000

Super Saiyan Future Kid Trunks: 3,000,000

Mecha Freeza: 130,000,000

King Cold: 100,000,000

Base Future Trunks: 3,060,000
Super Saiyan Future Trunks: 153,000,000

Base Goku(Post Yardrat): 3,400,000
Super Saiyan Goku: 170,000,000

Piccolo(3 year timeskip): 115,000,000

Base Goku(3 year timeskip): 5,800,000
Super Saiyan Goku: 290,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku(Heart virus): 190,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku(Heart virus worsened): 110,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku(Heart virus critical, energy lost): 70,000,000

Gohan(3 year timeskip): 2,700,000

Krillin(3 year timeskip): 2,500,000

Tien(3 year timeskip): 2,000,000

Yamcha(3 year timeskip): 1,500,000

Android 19: 70,000,000
Android 19(Kamehameha absorbed): 85,000,000

Dr Gero: 75,000,000
Dr Gero(Big Bang attack absorbed): 85,000,000
Dr Gero(Piccolo's energy absorbed): 90,000,000

Base Vegeta(3 year timeskip): 3,900,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta: 195,000,000

Base Future Trunks(3 year timeskip): 3,060,000
Super Saiyan Future Trunks: 153,000,000

Android 17: 285,000,000
Android 18: 255,000,000

Imperfect Cell: 200,000,000

Super Namek Piccolo(weighted): 250,000,000
Super Namek Piccolo: 285,000,000

Imperfect Cell(Post humans): 380,000,000

Android 16: 380,000,000

Semi-Perfect Cell: 580,000,000
Semi-Perfect Cell(Full power): 665,000,000

Base Vegeta(Post Rosat): 13,600,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta: 680,000,000
Super Saiyan Grade 2 Vegeta: 884,000,000

Base Future Trunks(Post Rosat): 13,500,000
Super Saiyan Future Trunks: 675,000,000
Super Saiyan Grade 2 Future Trunks: 877,500,000
Super Saiyan Grade 3 Future Trunks(Initial): 1,400,000,000
Super Saiyan Grade 3 Future Trunks(Powered up): 3,700,000,000
Super Saiyan Grade 3 Future Trunks: 8,775,000,000

Perfect Cell(Initial): 870,000,000
Perfect Cell(Warming up): 1,450,000,000
Perfect Cell(Power stressed,suppressed): 14,500,000,000

Base Goku(Post rosat): 44,400,000
50% Super Saiyan Goku: 1,110,000,000

Piccolo(Post Rosat): 995,000,000

Base Vegeta(2nd Rosat): 33,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta: 1,650,000,000

Base Future Trunks(2nd Rosat): 32,000,000
Super Saiyan Future Trunks: 1,600,000,000

Super Saiyan Goku: 2,220,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku(Tired): 1,850,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku(Exhausted): 800,000,000

Perfect Cell(Suppressed against Goku): 2,300,000,000
Perfect Cell(Tired): 1,900,000,000

Cell Jr: 1,700,000,000

Base Gohan(Post rosat): 52,000,000
Super Saiyan Gohan: 2,600,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan: 5,200,000,000

Perfect Cell's "True Speed": 2,625,000,000

Perfect Cell(Full power): 3,300,000,000
Perfect Cell(Power stressed): 33,000,000,000
Perfect Cell(Zenkai): 4,700,000,000

Base Future Trunks(3 years later): 32,000,000
Super Saiyan Future Trunks: 1,600,000,000

Future Imperfect Cell: 300,000,000[/spoiler]

Boo arc
[spoiler]Super Saiyan=[50xbase]
Super Saiyan 2=[2xSuper Saiyan]/[100xbase]
Super Saiyan 3=[4xSuper Saiyan 2]/[400xbase]
Fusion multiplier[Vegito]=A+B(13,700)
Fusion multiplier[Gotenks]=A+B(55)
Fusion multiplier[Kibito Kai]=A+B(2.3)

Base Gohan(Rusty): 400,000
Super Saiyan Gohan: 20,000,000

Base Goten: 400,000
Super Saiyan Goten: 20,000,000

Base Trunks: 420,000
Super Saiyan Trunks: 21,000,000

Base Gohan(Post training): 37,000,000
Super Saiyan Gohan: 1,850,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan: 3,700,000,000

Base Goten(Post training): 500,000
Super Saiyan Goten: 25,000,000

Base Trunks(Post training): 520,000
Super Saiyan Trunks: 26,000,000

Piccolo: 1,100,000,000

Kibito: 33,000,000

Shin: 1,500,000,000

Base Goku: 59,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku: 2,950,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku: 5,900,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku: 23,600,000,000

Base Vegeta: 47,200,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta: 2,360,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta: 4,720,000,000

Pui Pui: 20,000,000

Yakon: 40,000,000

Dabura: 4,700,000,000

Base Majin Vegeta: 59,000,000
Super Saiyan Majin Vegeta: 2,950,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Majin Vegeta: 5,900,000,000

Innocent Boo(Docile): 4,300,000,000
Innocent Boo(Angry): 6,500,000,000
Innocent Boo(Angrier): 10,000,000,000
Innocent Boo(Full power): 15,000,000,000

Base Gotenks: 56,100,000
Super Saiyan Gotenks: 2,805,000,000

Base Gohan(Post Z-Sword training): 60,000,000
Super Saiyan Gohan: 3,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan: 6,000,000,000

Good Boo(Split): 4,300,000,000
Evil Boo: 10,700,000,000

Super Boo: 26,800,000,000

Goten(Post rosat): 600,000
Super Saiyan Goten: 30,000,000

Trunks(Post Rosat): 620,000
Super Saiyan Trunks: 31,000,000

Base Gotenks(Post rosat): 67,100,000
Super Saiyan Gotenks: 3,355,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks: 26,840,000,000

Ultimate Gohan: 7,500,000,000,000

Kibito Kai: 3,525,900,000

Super Boo w/Gotenks+Piccolo: 9,500,000,000,000
Super Boo w/Piccolo+Goten+Trunks: 30,000,000,000
Super Boo w/Trunks+Goten+Piccolo+Gohan: 12,000,000,000,000
Super Boo w/Trunks+Goten+Piccolo+Gohan(Angry): 52,000,000,000,000

Base Vegito: 1,616,600,000,000
Super Vegito: 80,830,000,000,000

South Supreme Kai: 45,000,000,000

Pure Boo w/South Supreme Kai: 50,000,000,000,000

Good Boo(Restored): 15,000,000,000

Pure Boo: 50,000,000,000[/spoiler]

Dragon Ball Super
[spoiler]Super Saiyan=[50xbase]
Super Saiyan 2=[2xSuper Saiyan]/[100xbase]
Super Saiyan 3=[4xSuper Saiyan 2]/[400xbase]
Quake of Fury=[16,700xbase]/[167xSuper Saiyan 2]
Super Saiyan God=[22,500xbase]
Super Saiyan Blue=[1.12xSuper Saiyan God]/[25,200xbase]
Golden Frieza=[31,150xFinal form]
Super Saiyan Rose=[10xbase]
Strengthened Super Saiyan 2=[7.9xSuper Saiyan]/[395xbase]
Super Saiyan Grade 3=[13xSuper Saiyan]/[650xbase]
Super Saiyan Rage=[20,400xbase]
Barrier of Light=1.75xMerged Zamasu
Light of Justice=23,000xMerged Zamasu
Fusion multiplier[Gotenks]=A+B(55)
Fusion multiplier[Vegito]=A+B(13,700)
Fusion multiplier[Merged Zamasu]=A+B(1.1)
Super Saiyan Berserker=[250,000xbase]

Battle of Gods arc Base Goku: 60,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku: 3,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku: 6,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku: 24,000,000,000

Battle of Gods arc Base Vegeta: 60,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta: 3,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta: 6,000,000,000

Battle of Gods arc Goten: 600,000
Super Saiyan Goten: 30,000,000

Battle of Gods arc Trunks: 620,000
Super Saiyan Trunks: 31,000,000

Base Gotenks: 67,100,000
Super Saiyan Gotenks: 3,355,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks: 26,840,000,000

Ultimate Gohan(Weakened): 20,000,000,000

Quake of fury Vegeta: 1,002,000,000,000
Galick Gun: 50,100,000,000,000

Super Saiyan Goku(Collected ki): 20,000,000,000,000

Beerus(10%): 150,000,000,000,000
Beerus(70%): 1,050,000,000,000,000
Beerus: 1,500,000,000,000,000

Whis: 2,250,000,000,000,000

Super Saiyan God Goku(Initial): 200,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku(1st power up): 400,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku(2nd power up): 600,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku: 900,000,000,000,000

Base Goku(Saiyan Beyond God): 40,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku(God's crimson radiance): 880,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku(Powered up): 930,000,000,000,000

Rebirth of F arc Piccolo: 1,300,000,000

Shisami: 1,400,000,000

Rebirth of F arc Base Gohan: 60,000,000
Base Gohan(Weakened Ultimate power): 1,700,000,000
Super Saiyan Gohan: 3,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Gohan(Weakened Ultimate power): 85,000,000,000

Tagoma: 2,150,000,000
Ginyu(Tagoma's body): 2,550,000,000

First form freeza: 9,090,000,000
Final form freeza: 36,360,000,000

Rebirth of F arc Base Goku: 40,400,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku(Holding back): 915,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 1,018,080,000,000,000

Rebirth of F arc Base Vegeta: 40,400,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta: 1,018,080,000,000,000

Golden Freeza(Holding back): 1,019,000,000,000,000
Golden Freeza: 1,132,614,000,000,000
Golden Freeza(Tired): 400,000,000,000,000

Universe 6 arc Base Gohan: 10,000,000,000

Universe 6 arc Base Goku: 40,500,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku: 2,025,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 1,020,600,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken: 2,041,200,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Kaiokenx10: 10,206,000,000,000,000

Universe 6 arc Base Vegeta: 40,500,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta: 2,025,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta: 1,020,600,000,000,000

Universe 6 arc Piccolo: 10,000,000,000
Special beam cannon(Far beyond limits): 500,000,000,000

Botamo: 1,000,000,000

First form Frost: 22,500,000,000
Assault form Frost: 45,000,000,000
Final form Frost: 1,350,000,000,000
Final form Frost(Tired): 300,000,000,000

Magetta: 35,000,000,000
Magetta(1st power up): 100,000,000,000
Magetta(2nd power up): 1,000,000,000,000

Cabba: 40,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Cabba: 2,000,000,000,000

Hit: 880,000,000,000,000

Champa: 1,500,000,000,000,000

Vados: 2,275000,000,000,000

Future Trunks: 40,800,000,000
Super Saiyan Future Trunks: 2,040,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Future Trunks: 4,080,000,000,000
Strengthened Super Saiyan 2 Future Trunks: 16,116,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Grade 3 Future Trunks: 26,520,000,000,000

Goku Black: 21,000,000,000,000

Future Trunks arc Base Goku: 40,750,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku: 2,037,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku: 4,075,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku: 16,300,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 1,026,900,000,000,000

Future Trunks arc Base Vegeta: 40,750,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta: 1,026,900,000,000,000

Goku Black(Vs Goku): 3,500,000,000,000
Goku Black(1st power up): 4,100,000,000,000
Goku Black(2nd power up): 19,000,000,000,000

Zamasu: 4,000,000,000,000

Future Trunks(Post training): 52,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Future Trunks: 2,600,000,000,000
Strengthened Super Saiyan 2 Future Trunks: 20,540,000,000,000

Base Goku Black(Zenkai): 100,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black: 1,000,000,000,000,000

Base Goku black(2nd Zenkai): 103,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black:1,030,000,000,000,000

Future Zamasu: 4,000,000,000,000

Future Trunks arc Base Goku(Rage boost): 41,250,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 1,039,500,000,000,000

Base Goku Black(3rd Zenkai): 105,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black: 1,050,000,000,000,000

Super Saiyan Rage Future Trunks: 1,060,800,000,000,000

Base Vegeta(Post training): 52,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta: 1,179,000,000,000,000

Base Goku(Post Black fight): 52,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 1,179,000,000,000,000

Base Goku Black(Rage boost): 131,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black: 1,315,000,000,000,000

Merged Zamasu: 1,450,900,000,000,000
Merged Zamasu(Barrier of Light): 2,539,075,000,000,000

Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta(Full power): 1,310,400,000,000,000

Super Saiyan Blue Goku(Full power): 1,310,400,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken Goku: 2,620,800,000,000,000

Merged Zamasu(Light of Justice): 33,370,700,000,000,000,000

Base Vegito: 1,424,800,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Vegito: 35,904,960,000,000,000,000

Merged Zamasu(Power stressed): 3,337,070,000,000,000,000,000

Super Saiyan Rage Future Trunks(Sword of Light): 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Future Trunks arc Hit: 880,000,000,000,000

Universe survival arc Base Goku: 52,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku: 2,600,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku: 5,200,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 1,310,400,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken: 2,620,800,000,000,000

Universe survival arc Base Gohan(Ultimate): 52,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Gohan: 2,600,000,000,000

Good Boo(Docile): 4,300,000,000
Good Boo(Angry): 12,000,000,000
Good Boo(Full power): 15,000,000,000

Basil: 5,000,000,000
Basil(Full power): 9,500,000,000
Basil(Drug powered): 14,250,000,000

Lavender: 10,00,000,000

Bergamo: 52,200,000,000
Bergamo(Powered up): 3,000,000,000,000
Bergamo(Further powered up): 1,400,000,000,000,000

Toppo: 1,300,000,000,000,000
Toppo(Full power): 1,470,000,000,000,000

Universe survival arc Krillin: 60,000,000

Universe survival arc Piccolo(weighted): 4,000,000,000,000
Piccolo: 5,000,000,000,000

Super Saiyan 2 Gohan: 5,200,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan(Original power): 7,500,000,000,000

Good Boo(Post training): 55,000,000,000

Universe survival arc Android 17: 1,300,000,000,000,000

Universe survival arc Tien: 55,000,000

Universe survival arc Master Roshi(Witchcraft): 50,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan(Post training): 1,315,000,000,000,000

Universe survival arc Base Goku(Post training): 52,600,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku: 2,630,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku: 5,260,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku: 1,183,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 1,325,520,000,000,000

Universe survival arc Base Vegeta(Post training): 52,600,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta: 2,630,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta: 1,325,520,000,000,000

Final form Freeza(post training): 42,550,000,000
Golden Freeza: 1,325,432,500,000,000

Napapa: 27,000,000,000

Murichim: 30,000,000,000

Universe survival arc Base cabba: 51,000,000,000
Super Saiyan cabba: 2,550,000,000,000

Base Caulifla: 52,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Caulifla: 2,600,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Caulifla: 5,200,000,000,000

Base Kale: 5,960,000,000
Super Saiyan Berserker Kale: 1,490,000,000,000,000[/spoiler]
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:46 pm

ahill1 wrote:
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:Here are some of my levels from Freeza Arc. Feel free to critique.

[spoiler]Kuririn: 250,000
Gohan: 300,000
Piccolo (Weighted): 270,000
Vegeta: 480,000
Freeza (1st form): 530,000
Freeza (2nd form): 1,060,000
Gohan (Enraged): 900,000
Freeza (Powered up): 1,300,000
Kuririn (Further power up): 500,000
Gohan (Zenkai): 900,000
Piccolo (Merged): 1,350,000
Freeza (Full Power): 1,600,000
Piccolo (Full Power): 1,687,500
Freeza (3rd form): 2,400,000
Gohan (Enraged): 1,800,000
Gohan's Masenko: 2,250,000
Freeza (Final Form): 3,600,000
Vegeta (Zenkai): 3,600,000
Freeza (Tooling Vegeta): 4,800,000
Vegeta's Garlic Gun: 5,400,000
Freeza (Kicking the blast): 6,000,000
Goku (Warming up): 6,000,000
Freeza (Handless): 8,000,000
Goku (Full Power): 7,500,000
50% Freeza: 180,000,000
Kaioken x10 Goku: 75,000,000
Kaioken x20 Goku: 150,000,000
Spirit Bomb: 225,000,000
SSJ Goku: 375,000,000
Full Power Freeza: 360,000,000 and falling[/spoiler]
You think Freeza (warming up vs Goku) is a bigger level than what he used to tool Vegeta?
Well, why not? It's never implied he powered down after that.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:50 am

Here are my power levels for the Mecha Frieza Arc.

[spoiler]Mecha Frieza - 150,000,000

Frieza is now stronger than his previous 120,000,000. He is confident in defeating SSJ Goku's 150,000,000, but considering he can't sense ki, we can't be sure if he surpasses SSJ Goku's power, and he also needed the assistance from his father. I personally put both Frieza and Goku as equals.


King Cold - 25,000,000
King Cold (hypothetical 3rd form) - 50,000,000
King Cold (hypothetical final form) - 100,000,000

We don't know anything about King Cold's power. We know for sure that he's way stronger than base Goku from the Frieza arc, as well as Vegeta and the others at the time Mecha Frieza arrived on earth. We also know for sure that he's weaker than Frieza, he has to be weaker than Frieza's 120,000,000 since Frieza is stated to be the strongest in the universe. If we go by the notion that King Cold can transform, then King Cold should be way weaker than Frieza. Since I double his transformations, and King Cold looks similar to Frieza's second form, I assume that King Cold is in his second form.


Future Trunks - 3,400,000
SSJ Future Trunks - 170,000,000

Future Trunks is stronger than Goku (3,000,000 in base and 150,000,000 in SSJ), and is close to Goku's power from Yadrat. He has to be stronger than Mecha Frieza too, as well as higher than SSJ Goku from Namek.


Goku - 3,600,000
SSJ Goku - 180,000,000

Goku improved decently in more than one year training in Yardrat, with x1.2 increase. He's stronger than Mecha Frieza, as well as stronger than Future Trunks, who was really amazed at his power. I think they are both close in strenght, with Goku obviously being the superior one.


Vegeta - 3,000,000

Vegeta obviously trained during this whole time. Since his previous power level at Namek (2,400,000) he has increased to at least the power Goku had at Namek, which is 3,000,000.


Piccolo - 2,700,000

Piccolo's training boosts are great I think because of Nail's fusion with him (with the theory that Nail had his potential unlocked by Guru). His power would eventually get very close to Vegeta, shortening the gap between both of them compared to how big it was on Namek.


Gohan - 200,000

I have Gohan at 200,000 (the level from V-Jump) as the level he had at the end of the whole Namek conflict. Since Gohan is someone who doesn't really train, and was more on the studies, he pretty much remains at the same power, since I don't think that much time has happened for him to decrease.


Krillin - 135,000

Krillin, before he was killed, had the level of 75,000 (from V-Jump). He should have trained during this time, and even if it wasn't that much, he still had the potential unlocked from Guru. I'd say he surpasses Captain Ginyu at this stage, and has to be above every other earthling.


Tien - 100,000

Tien, after training with King Kai for 266 days, I think finally has the power to indeed fight Burter and Jeice at the same time like he did in the filler scene. At 90,000. Then after one year of training, I'd say he's now on the 100,000 mark. He's weaker than Krillin though. And even if their gap is a bit short here, it will become wider during the 3 years of training, with Krillin's unlocked potential doing effect.


Yamcha - 55,000

Yamcha, after training with King Kai for 136 days, I think he did surpass Recoome, Burter and Jeice, with a 50,000 level. Then after more than a year, he improves moderately. There are people out there who says that Yamcha should be more close to Tien (and Tien to Krillin), however I don't think that will make sense considering that Tien trains non stop while Yamcha barely has the motivation to do it, as well as how Tien trained more days in King Kai than Yamcha. So here I put him at 55,000, at least a bit higher than Tien's half strenght (50,000).


Chiaotzu - 20,000

After training with King Kai for 266 days, Chiaotzu would manage to get higher than 18,000, the level of the superior and partner of the guy who killed him (or at least didn't, just a sacrifice). Then adding a bit of improvement in power, he gets to at least barely 20,000, not exactly it, since Chiaotzu's boosts are really low.[/spoiler]

So what do you think of my list? Android-Cell arc is next.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:52 pm

dragonball0900 wrote:Here are my power levels for the Mecha Frieza Arc.

[spoiler]Mecha Frieza - 150,000,000

Frieza is now stronger than his previous 120,000,000. He is confident in defeating SSJ Goku's 150,000,000, but considering he can't sense ki, we can't be sure if he surpasses SSJ Goku's power, and he also needed the assistance from his father. I personally put both Frieza and Goku as equals.


King Cold - 25,000,000
King Cold (hypothetical 3rd form) - 50,000,000
King Cold (hypothetical final form) - 100,000,000

We don't know anything about King Cold's power. We know for sure that he's way stronger than base Goku from the Frieza arc, as well as Vegeta and the others at the time Mecha Frieza arrived on earth. We also know for sure that he's weaker than Frieza, he has to be weaker than Frieza's 120,000,000 since Frieza is stated to be the strongest in the universe. If we go by the notion that King Cold can transform, then King Cold should be way weaker than Frieza. Since I double his transformations, and King Cold looks similar to Frieza's second form, I assume that King Cold is in his second form.


Future Trunks - 3,400,000
SSJ Future Trunks - 170,000,000

Future Trunks is stronger than Goku (3,000,000 in base and 150,000,000 in SSJ), and is close to Goku's power from Yadrat. He has to be stronger than Mecha Frieza too, as well as higher than SSJ Goku from Namek.


Goku - 3,600,000
SSJ Goku - 180,000,000

Goku improved decently in more than one year training in Yardrat, with x1.2 increase. He's stronger than Mecha Frieza, as well as stronger than Future Trunks, who was really amazed at his power. I think they are both close in strenght, with Goku obviously being the superior one.


Vegeta - 3,000,000

Vegeta obviously trained during this whole time. Since his previous power level at Namek (2,400,000) he has increased to at least the power Goku had at Namek, which is 3,000,000.


Piccolo - 2,700,000

Piccolo's training boosts are great I think because of Nail's fusion with him (with the theory that Nail had his potential unlocked by Guru). His power would eventually get very close to Vegeta, shortening the gap between both of them compared to how big it was on Namek.


Gohan - 200,000

I have Gohan at 200,000 (the level from V-Jump) as the level he had at the end of the whole Namek conflict. Since Gohan is someone who doesn't really train, and was more on the studies, he pretty much remains at the same power, since I don't think that much time has happened for him to decrease.


Krillin - 135,000

Krillin, before he was killed, had the level of 75,000 (from V-Jump). He should have trained during this time, and even if it wasn't that much, he still had the potential unlocked from Guru. I'd say he surpasses Captain Ginyu at this stage, and has to be above every other earthling.


Tien - 100,000

Tien, after training with King Kai for 266 days, I think finally has the power to indeed fight Burter and Jeice at the same time like he did in the filler scene. At 90,000. Then after one year of training, I'd say he's now on the 100,000 mark. He's weaker than Krillin though. And even if their gap is a bit short here, it will become wider during the 3 years of training, with Krillin's unlocked potential doing effect.


Yamcha - 55,000

Yamcha, after training with King Kai for 136 days, I think he did surpass Recoome, Burter and Jeice, with a 50,000 level. Then after more than a year, he improves moderately. There are people out there who says that Yamcha should be more close to Tien (and Tien to Krillin), however I don't think that will make sense considering that Tien trains non stop while Yamcha barely has the motivation to do it, as well as how Tien trained more days in King Kai than Yamcha. So here I put him at 55,000, at least a bit higher than Tien's half strenght (50,000).


Chiaotzu - 20,000

After training with King Kai for 266 days, Chiaotzu would manage to get higher than 18,000, the level of the superior and partner of the guy who killed him (or at least didn't, just a sacrifice). Then adding a bit of improvement in power, he gets to at least barely 20,000, not exactly it, since Chiaotzu's boosts are really low.[/spoiler]

So what do you think of my list? Android-Cell arc is next.
I liked your numbers for the SSJs. Yet, i have some stuff to complain:
- Cold is too low. He and suppressed Freeza are grouped together, and Freeza thinks Cold can back up him. With such a low level, Cold wouldn't be able to even see them. I'd bump him to 120.
- Humans are too low. All of them should be above 1st form Freeza by this point, considering Piccolo was stated to above half of 1st form Freeza before merging and Vegeta calls Kuririn and Gohan useful against Freeza, while he said K2 Goku wouldn't. Zenkai Gohan (The one recovered from Freeza crushing his head) was the only one to stand against Freeza, and made Vegeta pretty hopeful.

Here are my numbers for a little comparison:
[spoiler]Namek Freeza: 360,000,000
Namek SSJ Goku: 375,000,000

Vegeta/Piccolo: 7,500,000
Gohan: 1,800,000
Kuririn: 1,500,000
Tenshinhan: 1,200,000
Yamcha: 1,000,000

Cyborg Freeza (Suppressed): 300,000,000
Full Power: 400,000,000
King Cold: 300,000,000

Trunks: 12,000,000
SSJ: 600,000,000
Goku: 13,500,000
SSJ: 675,000,000[/spoiler]

Btw, i'll be answering your post on the Kaioshin thread as soon as i get my computer.
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dragonball0900
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:46 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: I liked your numbers for the SSJs. Yet, i have some stuff to complain:
- Cold is too low. He and suppressed Freeza are grouped together, and Freeza thinks Cold can back up him. With such a low level, Cold wouldn't be able to even see them. I'd bump him to 120.
- Humans are too low. All of them should be above 1st form Freeza by this point, considering Piccolo was stated to above half of 1st form Freeza before merging and Vegeta calls Kuririn and Gohan useful against Freeza, while he said K2 Goku wouldn't. Zenkai Gohan (The one recovered from Freeza crushing his head) was the only one to stand against Freeza, and made Vegeta pretty hopeful.

Here are my numbers for a little comparison:
[spoiler]Namek Freeza: 360,000,000
Namek SSJ Goku: 375,000,000

Vegeta/Piccolo: 7,500,000
Gohan: 1,800,000
Kuririn: 1,500,000
Tenshinhan: 1,200,000
Yamcha: 1,000,000

Cyborg Freeza (Suppressed): 300,000,000
Full Power: 400,000,000
King Cold: 300,000,000

Trunks: 12,000,000
SSJ: 600,000,000
Goku: 13,500,000
SSJ: 675,000,000[/spoiler]

Btw, i'll be answering your post on the Kaioshin thread as soon as i get my computer.
Yeah I agree with King Cold, I only put him 25,000,000 since Frieza only said that King Cold can be useful as help (with distraction or something like that), as well as the theory that he can transform. If King Cold doesn't transform, then putting him at 100,000,000 (weaker than Frieza's 120,000,000 since that's stated) would do well.

As for the humans, Vegeta said that Krillin and Gohan would serve as help if they fight alongside him, remember that Vegeta had a power level close to Frieza's 530,000 (I put him at 480,000). However, with Goku, he was planning on fighting him alone, which obviously wouldn't do at all. Those are different cases.

Your numbers for the humans also seem too high. With just training with King Kai, I don't think they would get to the millions at all. They might got to the millions at least at the Android arc, but right now is too early to put them at the millions at this stage. They can proably at best reaching Captain Ginyu's level or a bit above, but they didn't make anything to prove that they are this high at the millions. Let's also remember that Gohan had a power level way inferior to 2nd Form Frieza. With two years without training, I don't think he had ever reached a level above him, not at least until the Android arc. Gohan at best would probably be at 1st Form Frieza (even though I put him at 200,000 if you see my list).

If we consider Piccolo being above half of First Form Frieza, then it would contradict everything since the humans (Tien, Yamcha and Chiaotzu) would get the same boosts, and Krillin is supposed to be the strongest earthling and he was stated to be way below First Form Frieza. And before you say that Krillin and Gohan's power kept raising even more to the point of getting to 2nd Form Frieza by the end of the arc, remember that Piccolo was still stated to be way above Gohan and Krillin at that point, therefore Gohan and Krillin should be way below 2nd Form Frieza, and in Krillin's case, below 1st Form Frieza.

Let's remember (and this also applies to King Cold's 25,000,000 low number I gave to him) that just because someone is too weak (like Krillin and Gohan, or King Cold for that matter) in comparison to the another (Vegeta, and Frieza in King Cold's case) it doesn't mean that they can't be useful for help (distractions or tactics or something like that), specially with the fact that the stronger fighter (Vegeta, and Mecha Frieza in the other case) has a power level really close the opponent they are about to fight (1st form Frieza, and Namek Goku in the other case).
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:14 pm

dragonball0900 wrote:
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: I liked your numbers for the SSJs. Yet, i have some stuff to complain:
- Cold is too low. He and suppressed Freeza are grouped together, and Freeza thinks Cold can back up him. With such a low level, Cold wouldn't be able to even see them. I'd bump him to 120.
- Humans are too low. All of them should be above 1st form Freeza by this point, considering Piccolo was stated to above half of 1st form Freeza before merging and Vegeta calls Kuririn and Gohan useful against Freeza, while he said K2 Goku wouldn't. Zenkai Gohan (The one recovered from Freeza crushing his head) was the only one to stand against Freeza, and made Vegeta pretty hopeful.

Here are my numbers for a little comparison:
[spoiler]Namek Freeza: 360,000,000
Namek SSJ Goku: 375,000,000

Vegeta/Piccolo: 7,500,000
Gohan: 1,800,000
Kuririn: 1,500,000
Tenshinhan: 1,200,000
Yamcha: 1,000,000

Cyborg Freeza (Suppressed): 300,000,000
Full Power: 400,000,000
King Cold: 300,000,000

Trunks: 12,000,000
SSJ: 600,000,000
Goku: 13,500,000
SSJ: 675,000,000[/spoiler]

Btw, i'll be answering your post on the Kaioshin thread as soon as i get my computer.
Yeah I agree with King Cold, I only put him 25,000,000 since Frieza only said that King Cold can be useful as help (with distraction or something like that), as well as the theory that he can transform. If King Cold doesn't transform, then putting him at 100,000,000 (weaker than Frieza's 120,000,000 since that's stated) would do well.

As for the humans, Vegeta said that Krillin and Gohan would serve as help if they fight alongside him, remember that Vegeta had a power level close to Frieza's 530,000 (I put him at 480,000). However, with Goku, he was planning on fighting him alone, which obviously wouldn't do at all. Those are different cases.

Your numbers for the humans also seem too high. With just training with King Kai, I don't think they would get to the millions at all. They might got to the millions at least at the Android arc, but right now is too early to put them at the millions at this stage. They can proably at best reaching Captain Ginyu's level or a bit above, but they didn't make anything to prove that they are this high at the millions. Let's also remember that Gohan had a power level way inferior to 2nd Form Frieza. With two years without training, I don't think he had ever reached a level above him, not at least until the Android arc. Gohan at best would probably be at 1st Form Frieza (even though I put him at 200,000 if you see my list).

If we consider Piccolo being above half of First Form Frieza, then it would contradict everything since the humans (Tien, Yamcha and Chiaotzu) would get the same boosts, and Krillin is supposed to be the strongest earthling and he was stated to be way below First Form Frieza. And before you say that Krillin and Gohan's power kept raising even more to the point of getting to 2nd Form Frieza by the end of the arc, remember that Piccolo was still stated to be way above Gohan and Krillin at that point, therefore Gohan and Krillin should be way below 2nd Form Frieza, and in Krillin's case, below 1st Form Frieza.

Let's remember (and this also applies to King Cold's 25,000,000 low number I gave to him) that just because someone is too weak (like Krillin and Gohan, or King Cold for that matter) in comparison to the another (Vegeta, and Frieza in King Cold's case) it doesn't mean that they can't be useful for help (distractions or tactics or something like that), specially with the fact that the stronger fighter (Vegeta, and Mecha Frieza in the other case) has a power level really close the opponent they are about to fight (1st form Frieza, and Namek Goku in the other case).
Yeah, i can see your logic with Cold. But you think he was counting with Cold powering up to final form, right? Because there is no way in hell 2nd form Cold can even see Goku and Freeza fighting.

I have struggled with the ideia of the humans powering up to such level, too. It wasn't until Super started messing around with power boost that i accepeted it. I don't think it would contradict anything, since i have Kuririn powering up to be well above 1st Form Freeza, but a good piece under Merged Piccolo. Gohan, on the other hand, seems to do pretty well against 3rd form Freeza, and the way Piccolo and Gohan himself talks about his perfomace seems to imply he was on his regular full power, instead of rage:
Chapter: 303 (DBZ 109), P10.2-3
Context: after Freeza repels Gohan’s attack
Piccolo: “He bounced that back, but…You’ve become strong, Gohan…I’m happy…”
Gohan: “B-but it wasn’t any use…I put all my force into that, but…It didn’t affect Freeza…”
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:25 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Yeah, i can see your logic with Cold. But you think he was counting with Cold powering up to final form, right? Because there is no way in hell 2nd form Cold can even see Goku and Freeza fighting.

I have struggled with the ideia of the humans powering up to such level, too. It wasn't until Super started messing around with power boost that i accepeted it. I don't think it would contradict anything, since i have Kuririn powering up to be well above 1st Form Freeza, but a good piece under Merged Piccolo. Gohan, on the other hand, seems to do pretty well against 3rd form Freeza, and the way Piccolo and Gohan himself talks about his perfomace seems to imply he was on his regular full power, instead of rage:
Chapter: 303 (DBZ 109), P10.2-3
Context: after Freeza repels Gohan’s attack
Piccolo: “He bounced that back, but…You’ve become strong, Gohan…I’m happy…”
Gohan: “B-but it wasn’t any use…I put all my force into that, but…It didn’t affect Freeza…”
Yes, Frieza probably was referring to King Cold's final form when mentioning that (of course, if he is able to transform), that way it would fit nicely with King Cold being able to see Goku and Frieza fighting.

Piccolo and Gohan were actually referring to Gohan's angry powers actually, and to be fair Gohan was actually enraged at that point considering how Piccolo was getting attacked. If those were normal Gohan's powers against 3rd form Frieza, then Gohan could've fight him alongside Piccolo as help, considering how he nearly had Frieza on the ropes.

Gohan, without his rage boosts, seems to be inferior to Piccolo throughout that whole part of the manga and anime. There's Piccolo being the only one going to distract Frieza for Goku to throw the Spirit Bomb. Then we have Goku returning from Yardrat indirectly saying that Piccolo and Vegeta were the strongest out there (not counting Trunks or himself) when he asked who defeated Mecha Frieza, and Goku practically knows Gohan and Piccolo's strenght from Namek. We also have some scenes at least from the anime that suggest that Piccolo is much stronger than Gohan.

I do believe that Krillin stayed behind 1st Form Frieza, since he didn't really do that much fighting against Frieza for him to increase his power that much over him, and was really scared of even 1st Form Frieza at the beggining of the fight. With Gohan, he could probably be around the same tier as 1st Form Frieza, but since there's not really any proof of how strong Gohan's power without his rage boost was, other than the 200,000 number the V-Jump gives, then I will go with it too.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:41 pm

dragonball0900 wrote:
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Yeah, i can see your logic with Cold. But you think he was counting with Cold powering up to final form, right? Because there is no way in hell 2nd form Cold can even see Goku and Freeza fighting.

I have struggled with the ideia of the humans powering up to such level, too. It wasn't until Super started messing around with power boost that i accepeted it. I don't think it would contradict anything, since i have Kuririn powering up to be well above 1st Form Freeza, but a good piece under Merged Piccolo. Gohan, on the other hand, seems to do pretty well against 3rd form Freeza, and the way Piccolo and Gohan himself talks about his perfomace seems to imply he was on his regular full power, instead of rage:
Chapter: 303 (DBZ 109), P10.2-3
Context: after Freeza repels Gohan’s attack
Piccolo: “He bounced that back, but…You’ve become strong, Gohan…I’m happy…”
Gohan: “B-but it wasn’t any use…I put all my force into that, but…It didn’t affect Freeza…”
Yes, Frieza probably was referring to King Cold's final form when mentioning that (of course, if he is able to transform), that way it would fit nicely with King Cold being able to see Goku and Frieza fighting.

Piccolo and Gohan were actually referring to Gohan's angry powers actually, and to be fair Gohan was actually enraged at that point considering how Piccolo was getting attacked. If those were normal Gohan's powers against 3rd form Frieza, then Gohan could've fight him alongside Piccolo as help, considering how he nearly had Frieza on the ropes.

Gohan, without his rage boosts, seems to be inferior to Piccolo throughout that whole part of the manga and anime. There's Piccolo being the only one going to distract Frieza for Goku to throw the Spirit Bomb. Then we have Goku returning from Yardrat indirectly saying that Piccolo and Vegeta were the strongest out there (not counting Trunks or himself) when he asked who defeated Mecha Frieza, and Goku practically knows Gohan and Piccolo's strenght from Namek. We also have some scenes at least from the anime that suggest that Piccolo is much stronger than Gohan.

I do believe that Krillin stayed behind 1st Form Frieza, since he didn't really do that much fighting against Frieza for him to increase his power that much over him, and was really scared of even 1st Form Frieza at the beggining of the fight. With Gohan, he could probably be around the same tier as 1st Form Frieza, but since there's not really any proof of how strong Gohan's power without his rage boost was, other than the 200,000 number the V-Jump gives, then I will go with it too.
Gohan's facial expressions seem to be a bit mad, but he wasn't going bersek like he did agaisnt 2nd form Freeza. Freeza also transformed just after he deflected Gohan's blast, they even had time to fight.

Piccolo had Gohan and Kuririn's Ki with him. And he was the only one willing to go there and face Freeza, he don't want Gohan in danger. And it's pretty obvius Piccolo is above Gohan when Goku returns. He was on pair with a even stronger than before Vegeta, while Gohan still marginally behind 3rd form Freeza.

Kuririn's power was rising the whole time, and he don't know how strong he will end up being. He was left on the dust by Gohan because he had his Zenkai boosts.

Even if you don't agree with humans ~ 2nd form Freeza, they should be >>> Ginyu and on the same tier as 1st form Freeza, considering all the statements back on Freeza Arc putting them not multifolder under 1st form Freeza.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:56 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Gohan's facial expressions seem to be a bit mad, but he wasn't going bersek like he did agaisnt 2nd form Freeza. Freeza also transformed just after he deflected Gohan's blast, they even had time to fight.

Piccolo had Gohan and Kuririn's Ki with him. And he was the only one willing to go there and face Freeza, he don't want Gohan in danger. And it's pretty obvius Piccolo is above Gohan when Goku returns. He was on pair with a even stronger than before Vegeta, while Gohan still marginally behind 3rd form Freeza.

Kuririn's power was rising the whole time, and he don't know how strong he will end up being. He was left on the dust by Gohan because he had his Zenkai boosts.

Even if you don't agree with humans ~ 2nd form Freeza, they should be >>> Ginyu and on the same tier as 1st form Freeza, considering all the statements back on Freeza Arc putting them not multifolder under 1st form Freeza.
Why wouldn't Gohan get an angry boost for Piccolo if he did so with Krillin? Piccolo was in the risk of dying, and Gohan really likes Piccolo, Gohan was completely mad at that point it can be seen by how he was attacking Frieza.

If Gohan was that strong, he would've try to tell Piccolo that he was sure to be now strong enough to face Frieza, but he didn't say anything and just let Piccolo fight. The reason why Frieza transformed is because he wanted them to know his Final Form. He did say that he could kill everyone at that moment if he wanted to, even after knowing Gohan's strenght. Also, I don't think Piccolo was going by not wanting Gohan to be in danger, since the more number of people are there to distract Frieza, the better for Goku to charge his Spirit Bomb to defeat him. They have do it for the benefit of saving themselves against the power Frieza.

Also, Goku didn't know how strong Piccolo and Vegeta would've become if he hadn't even sense them at Earth. Goku would've only have a vague idea of them judging by what he sensed from them at Namek, meaning that Piccolo is in fact stronger than Gohan even at Namek.

It's stated that the power only keeps rising when fighting. If the contrary happens, then neither him or Gohan would have gotten weaker in the Buu arc.

There's not really proof for Gohan's strenght (no rage boosts). And the humans being at the tier of 1st Form Frieza and much higher than Ginyu seems exagerated in my opinion. Of course, there's nothing wrong at all for you to think that, but we just can't be certain that they "should" reach that level, it just seems very unlikely, at least for me.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:33 pm

dragonball0900 wrote: Why wouldn't Gohan get an angry boost for Piccolo if he did so with Krillin? Piccolo was in the risk of dying, and Gohan really likes Piccolo, Gohan was completely mad at that point it can be seen by how he was attacking Frieza.

If Gohan was that strong, he would've try to tell Piccolo that he was sure to be now strong enough to face Frieza, but he didn't say anything and just let Piccolo fight. The reason why Frieza transformed is because he wanted them to know his Final Form. He did say that he could kill everyone at that moment if he wanted to, even after knowing Gohan's strenght. Also, I don't think Piccolo was going by not wanting Gohan to be in danger, since the more number of people are there to distract Frieza, the better for Goku to charge his Spirit Bomb to defeat him. They have do it for the benefit of saving themselves against the power Frieza.

Also, Goku didn't know how strong Piccolo and Vegeta would've become if he hadn't even sense them at Earth. Goku would've only have a vague idea of them judging by what he sensed from them at Namek, meaning that Piccolo is in fact stronger than Gohan even at Namek.

It's stated that the power only keeps rising when fighting. If the contrary happens, then neither him or Gohan would have gotten weaker in the Buu arc.

There's not really proof for Gohan's strenght (no rage boosts). And the humans being at the tier of 1st Form Frieza and much higher than Ginyu seems exagerated in my opinion. Of course, there's nothing wrong at all for you to think that, but we just can't be certain that they "should" reach that level, it just seems very unlikely, at least for me.
Perhaps it's because he thought Kuririn died? Gohan looked mad, but he wasn't freaking out like when he pummeled 2nd form Freeza. Both Piccolo, Freeza and Gohan himself talks like that's his regular full power:
Chapter: 303 (DBZ 109), P9.2
Freeza: “That’s strange…That squirt shouldn’t have had so much battle power…He’s become like a different person after returning to life from the brink of death…”
Chapter: 303 (DBZ 109), P10.2-3
Context: after Freeza repels Gohan’s attack
Piccolo: “He bounced that back, but…You’ve become strong, Gohan…I’m happy…”
Gohan: “B-but it wasn’t any use…I put all my force into that, but…It didn’t affect Freeza…”
Freeza was bluffing. He even said Vegeta and Gohan were growing too strong before he said he was going to transform:
Chapter: 303 (DBZ 109), P10.5
Freeza: “I don’t believe stupid legends like the Super Saiyan, the strongest in history, but I don’t feel too good…The squirt and Vegeta really are steadily getting stronger, after all…”
And i still think Piccolo was doing bravado, considering Gohan's feats against 3rd form Freeza.

Considering Piccolo is supposed to be ~ Base Namek Goku and Gohan should be a bit under 3rd form Freeza by this point, i'm sure Goku can tell the difference between their current powers.

What are you talking about? Vegeta said Gohan and Kuririn's power was raising, and it's implied it was the Potential Unlock Guru gave them.

How would Vegeta say Kuririn is useful against Freeza if he can't even beat Ginyu? Why would Tenshinhan and Yamcha receive gains different from the gains Piccolo did? That's nonsense. How strong you have the humans on the Cell Arc? Depending on their power you could bump the Mecha Arc humans and give them smaller boosts for the 3 years.
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