Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[DanielSSJ]

Blah

To be honest, the power gaps between a lot of these guys seems pretty extreme. I have their progress looking a little something like this:
[spoiler]Kuririn:

• Saiyan Arc: 206 --------> (God's training) 1,770
  Freeza Arc: 1,800 --------> (potential unleashed) 13,000 --------> (vs Ginyu-Goku) 20,000 --------> (vs Freeza) 75,000
  Androids Arc: 100,000 --------> (three years later) 250,000
  Majin Boo Arc: 225,000

Tenshinhan:

• Saiyan Arc: 250 --------> (God's training) 1,830
  Freeza Arc: 1,830 --------> (Kaio's training) 50,000
  Trunks and Androids Arc: 60,000 --------> (three years later) 150,000
  Majin Boo Arc: 180,000

Yamcha:

• Saiyan Arc: 177 --------> (God's 1,480
  Freeza Arc: 1,480 --------> (Kaio's training) 36,000
  Trunks and Androids Arc: 40,000 --------> (three years later) 80,000
  Majin Boo Arc: 70,000

Chiaotzu:

• Saiyan Arc: 150 --------> (God's training) 610
  Freeza Arc: 610 --------> (Kaio's training) 12,000
  Trunks and Androids Arc: 18,000 --------> (three years later) 30,000
  Majin Boo Arc: 40,000

[/spoiler]

[dragonball0900]

Blah

To be honest, the power gaps between a lot of these guys seems pretty extreme. I have their progress looking a little something like this:

The thing is, Krillin's boosts in training should be higher than Tien and the others' boost since he had his potential unlocked. His boost wouldn't be as big as Gohan's or Piccolo's since he's a human, but it has to be a high boost.

I also think that considering that Tien trained longer than Yamcha at King Kai's planet, nearly twice Yamcha's time, that's the moment where Tien should be well above Yamcha.

It doesn't really contradict anything seen in the series to be fair.

[DanielSSJ]

The thing is, Krillin's boosts in training should be higher than Tien and the others' boost since he had his potential unlocked. His boost wouldn't be as big as Gohan's or Piccolo's since he's a human, but it has to be a high boost.

I also think that considering that Tien trained longer than Yamcha at King Kai's planet, nearly twice Yamcha's time, that's the moment where Tien should be well above Yamcha.

It doesn't really contradict anything seen in the series to be fair.

I don't think Kuririn's potential unlocking had much of a long-term effect on his growth rate. Once his battle power hit its peak in the Freeza arc, he would've gained strength like normal. And while Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu stayed on Kaio's planet for twice as long as Yamcha, by that point 10Gs wouldn't be much of a workout for them, and they'd be getting diminishing returns. Sure, it's enough to widen the gap between the two, but it isn't extreme enough to make Tenshinhan more than twice as strong as Yamcha, at least in my opinion.

[dragonball0900]

The thing is, Krillin's boosts in training should be higher than Tien and the others' boost since he had his potential unlocked. His boost wouldn't be as big as Gohan's or Piccolo's since he's a human, but it has to be a high boost.

I also think that considering that Tien trained longer than Yamcha at King Kai's planet, nearly twice Yamcha's time, that's the moment where Tien should be well above Yamcha.

It doesn't really contradict anything seen in the series to be fair.

I don't think Kuririn's potential unlocking had much of a long-term effect on his growth rate. Once his battle power hit its peak in the Freeza arc, he would've gained strength like normal. And while Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu stayed on Kaio's planet for twice as long as Yamcha, by that point 10Gs wouldn't be much of a workout for them, and they'd be getting diminishing returns. Sure, it's enough to widen the gap between the two, but it isn't extreme enough to make Tenshinhan more than twice as strong as Yamcha, at least in my opinion.

You have a good point with Tien's power. Instead of making him a 40x times stronger, I will make it a 30 times stronger 1,830 for him. That would get him to 55,000. Training for a year up to Mecha Frieza arc, 64,000. Then 3 years for the Android arc, 96,000. Then Buu arc, 144,000.

With Yamcha, I have him at 52,000 in the Android arc. Chiaotzu would be 15,000 after King Kai's training, then 17,000 for the Mecha Frieza arc, and 21,000 for the Cell arc. Buu arc would be somewhere between 25,000 and 30,000.

However, I still think Krillin's unlocked potential gave him a high boost, like Gohan and Piccolo (if we assume Nail had his potential unlocked, and that passed it on Piccolo after their fusion), only that lower than them. Maybe I can lower Krillin's power to about 750,000. But not sure if something less than that would be good for my list.

[ZombieVito]

I don't think Kuririn's potential unlocking had much of a long-term effect on his growth rate. Once his battle power hit its peak in the Freeza arc, he would've gained strength like normal. And while Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu stayed on Kaio's planet for twice as long as Yamcha, by that point 10Gs wouldn't be much of a workout for them, and they'd be getting diminishing returns. Sure, it's enough to widen the gap between the two, but it isn't extreme enough to make Tenshinhan more than twice as strong as Yamcha, at least in my opinion.

Well you pretty much have to give them a big boost in the Android arc because of the way Kuririn performed against Goku in DBS 84.

[DanielSSJ]

Well you pretty much have to give them a big boost in the Android arc because of the way Kuririn performed against Goku in DBS 84.

I don't really have any interest in doing any power scaling for Super, and I see no reason for it to influence my opinions on the older material retroactively.

[DBZ Macky]

If you don't wanna consider Super, then good on you. But I'd say even that show is consistent with what's been shown in the DBZ Anime.

If 17 can get stronger than current SS or debatably attain SSB tier power just by ranging the shit outta some parks, then I don't see why Krillin and co. can't be attain power close to the base Saiyans.

We already have stuff like Tenshinhan giving Trunks a good fight and Yamcha one-shotting Olibu, so at least in Toei's mind, they aren't too far off from the base Saiyans' power.

How did they get so strong? Who cares, everyone else is getting so strong in Super without explanation that it's just how things are now. If you do need a reason, then you'd have to use your own headcanon because the show doesn't feel the need to explain anything.

I have a theory how they got so strong (training with each other, gravity machine, etc.) but again, you could probably come up with a good reason yourself.

Reading that Yamcha spinoff Manga made me realize just how many oppurtunities there are in the DB verse to become extremely strong in just a small period of time.

[ZombieVito]

Well you pretty much have to give them a big boost in the Android arc because of the way Kuririn performed against Goku in DBS 84.

I don't really have any interest in doing any power scaling for Super, and I see no reason for it to influence my opinions on the older material retroactively.

I can understand if it's GT we were talking about but Super is an official continuation of the story by Akira Toriyama.

But to each their own.

[DanielSSJ]

If you don't wanna consider Super, then good on you. But I'd say even that show is consistent with what's been shown in the DBZ Anime.

If 17 can get stronger than current SS or debatably attain SSB tier power just by ranging the shit outta some parks, then I don't see why Krillin and co. can't be attain power close to the base Saiyans.

We already have stuff like Tenshinhan giving Trunks a good fight and Yamcha one-shotting Olibu, so at least in Toei's mind, they aren't too far off from the base Saiyans' power.

How did they get so strong? Who cares, everyone else is getting so strong in Super without explanation that it's just how things are now. If you do need a reason, then you'd have to use your own headcanon because the show doesn't feel the need to explain anything.

I have a theory how they got so strong (training with each other, gravity machine, etc.) but again, you could probably come up with a good reason yourself.

Reading that Yamcha spinoff Manga made me realize just how many oppurtunities there are in the DB verse to become extremely strong in just a small period of time.

The fact that Toei-original power scaling tidbits was still pretty wonky back in the 90s doesn't change my opinion about Super's power scale. I can still enjoy the show for what it is, but that doesn't change the fact that I find the prospect of trying to power scale it migraine inducing.

I can understand if it's GT we were talking about but Super is an official continuation of the story by Akira Toriyama.

But to each their own.

I'd argue that Toyotaro's manga version of Super could be seen as the continuation of Toriyama's story, since it seems that the big man himself has more input int the finished product. Coincidentally, I find the manga version to be a lot more detail oriented and easier to swallow in terms of it's power scale.

[dragonball0900]

We already have stuff like Tenshinhan giving Trunks a good fight and Yamcha one-shotting Olibu, so at least in Toei's mind, they aren't too far off from the base Saiyans' power.

How did they get so strong? Who cares, everyone else is getting so strong in Super without explanation that it's just how things are now. If you do need a reason, then you'd have to use your own headcanon because the show doesn't feel the need to explain anything.

I have a theory how they got so strong (training with each other, gravity machine, etc.) but again, you could probably come up with a good reason yourself.

Reading that Yamcha spinoff Manga made me realize just how many oppurtunities there are in the DB verse to become extremely strong in just a small period of time.

Well we also have stuff like Yamcha, Tien and Chiaotzu defeating the Ginyu Force. We also see that in Movie 07, Gohan and Krillin were stated to be far below Base Goku, Vegeta and Trunks, and it is soon contradicted with Tien being able to fight a far stronger Base Trunks in Movie 09. So I don't think we should take Toei's Z filler that fairly, specially since they were trying to make Yamcha look stronger than what we think, ever since the 22nd Budokai arc.

With regards to the power up boosts of the humans, I'd have to say that only Krillin would be able to make huge jumps on power ups since he has his unlocked potential from Guru in Namek. He was able to get from 13,000 to 75,000 in just 6 days, and it kept rising following that arc. I think it's fair to assume that Krillin could've hit the 1,000,000 mark by the time of the Android arc. Tien and Yamcha didn't have that potential unlocked, and only trained with Kaio, making the only huge boost at Kaio's training. We also see from Super that Roshi was defeating Tien, so somehow Tien is not that strong in Super, since he didn't recieve an unlocked potential that could raise his power as much as Krillin. That would explain how Krillin is still considered the strongest human after all this years.

[Bullza]

Took me long enough but here's the Buu saga power level along with the Cell Games saga just for reference. This is definitely the hardest saga to do power levels for, I'm unsure on a lot of this myself.

So I'm hoping you guys can point out anything that might seem wrong, I'm sure there's something.

Cell Games Saga

Goku – 50,000,000 
Super Saiyan Goku – 2,500,000,000 

Gohan – 64,000,000 
Super Saiyan Gohan – 3,200,000,000 
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan – 6,400,000,000 

Vegeta – 36,000,000 
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 1,800,000,000 

Trunks – 34,000,000 
Super Saiyan Trunks – 1,700,000,000 

Piccolo – 1,200,000,000 

Cell Jr – 2,000,000,000 
Perfect Cell (Suppressed) – 2,800,000,000 
Perfect Cell (Full Power) – 3,500,000,000 
Perfect Cell (Buff) – 4,700,000,000 
Super Perfect Cell – 6,000,000,000

The World Tournament Saga

Gohan – 55,000,000 
Super Saiyan Gohan – 2,750,000,000 
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan – 5,500,000,000 

Goten – 34,000,000 
Super Saiyan Goten – 1,700,000,000 

Kid Trunks – 36,000,000 
Super Saiyan Kid Trunks – 1,800,000,000 

Supreme Kai – 2,400,000,000 
Piccolo – 1,900,000,000 
Android 18 – 340,000,000 
Kibito – 50,000,000 

Majin Buu Saga

Goku – 85,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku – 4,250,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku – 8,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku – 35,000,000,000

Vegeta – 70,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 3,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta – 7,000,000,000
Majin Vegeta – 8,500,000,000

Gohan – 55,000,000
Super Saiyan Gohan – 2,750,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan – 5,500,000,000

Supreme Kai – 2,400,000,000 

Majin Buu – 22,500,000,000 
Evil Buu - 12,500,000,000
Good Buu - 10,000,000,000

Dabura – 6,200,000,000 
Yakon – 80,000,000 
Pui Pui – 100,000 

Fusion Saga

Gotenks – 600,000,000 
Super Saiyan Gotenks – 30,000,000,000 
Super Saiyan 2 Gotenks – 60,000,000,000 
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks – 240,000,000,000 

Kibitokai – 7,500,000,000 

Gohan (Z Sword Training) – 100,000,000 
Super Saiyan Gohan – 5,000,000,000 
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan – 10,000,000,000 
Ultimate Gohan – 360,000,000,000 

Vegito – 40,000,000,000 
Super Vegito – 2,000,000,000,000 

Super Buu – 210,000,000,000 
Super Buu (Gotenks Absorbed) – 450,000,000,000 
Super Buu (Gohan Absorbed) – 575,000,000,000 

Kid Buu Saga

Goku – 85,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku – 4,250,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku – 8,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku – 35,000,000,000

Vegeta – 85,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta – 4,250,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta – 8,500,000,000

Good Buu – 10,000,000,000 

Kid Buu – 32,000,000,000

[DanielSSJ]

Power Levels

Your list looks pretty solid all around. There are a few things here and there that I don't agree with (and I'm pretty sure you know what, based on past conversations), but there's nothing that is outright incorrect or doesn't make sense. Pretty nice.

[Noah]

I don't really have any interest in doing any power scaling for Super, and I see no reason for it to influence my opinions on the older material retroactively.

I can understand if it's GT we were talking about but Super is an official continuation of the story by Akira Toriyama.

But to each their own.

He can pretty much put Super and GT on the same basket.

Dragon Ball Super is an anime only sequel and it's manga just serves to promote the main product. It has no correlations with the original manga that ended 22 years ago.

[ZombieVito]

I don't really have any interest in doing any power scaling for Super, and I see no reason for it to influence my opinions on the older material retroactively.

I can understand if it's GT we were talking about but Super is an official continuation of the story by Akira Toriyama.

But to each their own.

He can pretty much put Super and GT on the same basket.

Dragon Ball Super is an anime only sequel and it's manga just serves to promote the main product. It has no correlations with the original manga that ended 22 years ago.

He really can't. GT had almost 0 involvement from Toriyama. He only drew some character designs.

In Super, Toriyama is writing the outlines. Even if they are minor it's still his ideas.

There's no comparison.

[DanielSSJ]

He really can't. GT had almost 0 involvement from Toriyama. He only drew some character designs.

In Super, Toriyama is writing the outlines. Even if they are minor it's still his ideas.

There's no comparison.

I can still pick which version I wanna speculate about though.

[apex_pretador]

If during the Buu saga...

Super Saiyan Gotenks = 10

Super Saiyan 2 Gotenks = 20

Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks = 80

Then what would Super Saiyan 3 Goku be at?

I don't give Gotenks official multipliers because they contradict the story. However, going by your SS3 Gotenks numbers,

SS3 Goku (buu) = 45
SS3 Goku (BoG) = 90

[Noah]

He really can't. GT had almost 0 involvement from Toriyama. He only drew some character designs.

In Super, Toriyama is writing the outlines. Even if they are minor it's still his ideas.

There's no comparison.

Yes, he can. Even if Toriyama has more involvement than GT it doesn't change the fact that Dragon Ball Super it's is own product that has no implications with the original work.

Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z were adaptations of a full story written by Toriyama Akira while Dragon Ball Super is a story written by vague outlines from the author that were interpreted in two different ways (anime and manga), just like you said:

There's no comparison.

[Bullza]

I don't give Gotenks official multipliers because they contradict the story. However, going by your SS3 Gotenks numbers,

SS3 Goku (buu) = 45
SS3 Goku (BoG) = 90

Isn't that kind of a big jump for Goku? Going by the Yo Son Goku OVA he said he'd be getting pretty rusty and he probably couldn't have increased too much.

He'd been busy with farm work and all and only got the chance to use King Kai's planet to train just a day or two before Beerus showed up. In between he probably had nobody to spar with or any magical training weights or increased gravity or the like.

[ekrolo2]

If current Goku had access to both Blue and SS4, which one would give him the bigger boost in power?

[Desassina]

If current Goku had access to both Blue and SS4, which one would give him the bigger boost in power?

SSJB. If GT were to follow through the EoZ with DB Super included, and everyone's memories of the Gods got wiped out, then it would explain why base kid Goku is stronger than SSJ4. His power remained God like, so tapping into it through SSJ would bring about Blue, which should be the strongest.