Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[PFM18]

There isn't anything implying that Majoob>SSJ3 Goku. Pretty sure that Baby was stated to have been toying with him. Majoob was easily overpowered after Baby stopped toying. Vegeta performed better against Super 17 than Majoob.

Except, ya know, Goku lost to an inferior form of Baby while putting up a worse fight against him.

[miguelnuva1]

Your scale is off. Vegeta goes ssj2 right before Goku comes back and still can't budge Super 17. Ssj Gokuater knocks him around the world.

Had Goku not given him energy Goku might have been able to win as a super saiyan.

Well I haven't quote for up to that point just yet. I didn't think Super Saiyan 2 was even used in GT?

Vegeta turns ssj, powers up then his Aura gets a lot bigger. The majority I talk to say it's a ssj2 power up.

[Bullza]

Vegeta turns ssj, powers up then his Aura gets a lot bigger. The majority I talk to say it's a ssj2 power up.

Well I just looked at this for the GT Perfect Files.

viewtopic.php?t=14812

It mentions the instances when different characters use Super Saiyan against the likes of Rilldo, Ledgic, Luud, Baby etc. It mentions Super Saiyan 3 being used against Super Baby.

But for Super Saiyan 2 it doesn't mention anything.

[Bullza]

Now that I've seen a bit more of the show, it's a little bit clearer.

Base Vegeta says that he's evenly matched against Hell Fighter 17 who he says has powered up beyond belief since there last encounter (referring to Android 17 in the Android saga). The Base Saiyans being below Frieza was likely only a thing when Battle of God's came around and the writers may not have thought this way back then but this would make it seem as though they have gotten a lot stronger since the Buu saga.

Would probably explain why Goten and Trunks one shot Android 19 too. Even Pan could hold Android 20.

Also there's nothing that specifically implies that Super Saiyan Vegeta is stronger than Majuub. He does stand up a couple more times but nothing he or the others do have any effect on Super 17 at all so Majuub could still be the much stronger of the two.

But then Super Saiyan Goku does punch Super 17 half way around the world which imply he was the strongest which is probably contradictory with the Baby Saga.

[miguelnuva1]

Vegeta turns ssj, powers up then his Aura gets a lot bigger. The majority I talk to say it's a ssj2 power up.

Well I just looked at this for the GT Perfect Files.

viewtopic.php?t=14812

It mentions the instances when different characters use Super Saiyan against the likes of Rilldo, Ledgic, Luud, Baby etc. It mentions Super Saiyan 3 being used against Super Baby.

But for Super Saiyan 2 it doesn't mention anything.

The perfect files only cover the baby saga. The second 9ne hasn't been translated.

This is a ssj2 power up.

https://youtu.be/ni_RqWTvkJc

[Bullza]

How can you tell? His hair doesn't change and he doesn't even have the sparks.

[DanielSSJ]

How can you tell? His hair doesn't change and he doesn't even have the sparks.

Toei has always been terrible about that anyways. You could probably say it's up to interpretation. Personally, it seemed as though he was going full throttle, so he probably was a Super Saiyan 2. But what do I know?

[Analytic]

If you listen closely you can hear the transformation noise twice.

[miguelnuva1]

How can you tell? His hair doesn't change and he doesn't even have the sparks.

Transformation sound twice and a bigger more jagged aura that looks like the ssj2 aura.

[Bullza]

Well I don't suppose it particularly changes anything because Super Saiyan 2 or not he never actually did anything.

So that aside is Super Saiyan Goku supposed to be above Majuub even though earlier Majuub was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku?

And what about Super 17? Is he stronger than Super Saiyan 4 Goku and Golden Great Ape Baby?

[PFM18]

Well I don't suppose it particularly changes anything because Super Saiyan 2 or not he never actually did anything.

So that aside is Super Saiyan Goku supposed to be above Majuub even though earlier Majuub was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku?

And what about Super 17? Is he stronger than Super Saiyan 4 Goku and Golden Great Ape Baby?

Yes and yes I believe

[Koitsukai]

Well I don't suppose it particularly changes anything because Super Saiyan 2 or not he never actually did anything.

So that aside is Super Saiyan Goku supposed to be above Majuub even though earlier Majuub was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku?

And what about Super 17? Is he stronger than Super Saiyan 4 Goku and Golden Great Ape Baby?

I don't think Super 17 initially was stronger than SS4 but Goku was such a dumb fighter in that arc that after giving away so much ki, Super 17 was way above him. SS Kid Goku actually managed to hurt S-17 and sent him across the world all the way to Australia with a punch.

[Bullza]

Yeah I wouldn't have said he was stronger than him at first. After all the energy he was given though he did stomp Super Saiyan 4 Goku but he was probably drained somewhat as well.

The thing is though if Super Saiyan Goku is supposedly so strong at this point compared to Super Saiyan 3 Goku from before then wouldn't Super Saiyan 4 Goku in this saga be vastly more powerful than when he fought Baby?

[PFM18]

Well I don't suppose it particularly changes anything because Super Saiyan 2 or not he never actually did anything.

So that aside is Super Saiyan Goku supposed to be above Majuub even though earlier Majuub was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku?

And what about Super 17? Is he stronger than Super Saiyan 4 Goku and Golden Great Ape Baby?

I don't think Super 17 initially was stronger than SS4 but Goku was such a dumb fighter in that arc that after giving away so much ki, Super 17 was way above him. SS Kid Goku actually managed to hurt S-17 and sent him across the world all the way to Australia with a punch.

The whole thing is hard to scale since it makes no sense. Majuub was established in the previous arc to be stronger than SSJ3 Goku, then Majuub gets rekt before Goku shows up and actually does some damage as a normal SSJ. Then, Super 17 absorbs a bunch of Goku's ki because Goku is suddenly mentally disabled apparently, and then he actually beats Super 17 while he is in his base form.

[Bullza]

The whole show is a complete mess for the power scaling. It's probably best I don't even bother because there's no making sense of it at all.

It actually is worse than Super after all.

[Alruneia]

The whole show is a complete mess for the power scaling. It's probably best I don't even bother because there's no making sense of it at all.

It actually is worse than Super after all.

I'm just gonna jump in here and say that it's actually been pretty entertaining/interesting to see you go through GT and attempt to make sense of everything. I never rewatch GT, so I'm unable to help you out, though.
What's the straw breaking the camel's back in this case? I'm assuming you didn't get to the dragons, since I don't see any mention of them.

[Cetra]

I don't think Super 17 initially was stronger than SS4 but Goku was such a dumb fighter in that arc that after giving away so much ki, Super 17 was way above him. SS Kid Goku actually managed to hurt S-17 and sent him across the world all the way to Australia with a punch.

I can only repeat myself, Gokuu literally in the Japanese version says "if that would not help nothing would" after his enemy realized Gokuu was aware of the skill and did that to be fully sure that absorption would happen even after such a long time of attacking. He knew about the absorption but was of the impression if he does not try more and more with it eventually working then nothing he could do would leat to a victory over Super 17. So he was literally trying a Yakon on 17.

Gokuu in GT faced enemies that actually did drive him to the edge of his originality. Baby beat him up so much he just was lying in a ruined rock, smiling because he was glad that someone that strong existed. Super 17 he tried to Yakon and a Final Explosion and against Yi Xing Long he also tried a Final Explosion. The enemies were in a completely different league this time, no matter if power-wise or because of their abilities and except for Baby the Saiyajin never actually, neither Gokuu, not Vegeta, reached a level during their battles that allowed them to conventionally fight against 17 (powered-up) or Super-Yi Xing Long. If Goku has to rely on Desperation Attacks or in the end greatly timed Ryuuken or Genkidama, then you know these enemies are no joke at one point in time. Now of course this is also thanks to Toei trying to make a firework out of every finale but I cannot really blame them. I want a finale to be fireworks.

[Bullza]

What's the straw breaking the camel's back in this case? I'm assuming you didn't get to the dragons, since I don't see any mention of them.

I'm at the start of the Shadow Dragon Saga now so I'll see what I run into there.

The show seems to have been inconsistent from the start. Goku transforms to fight Ledgic, Mutchy and Luud but then it's heavily implied that Rilldo is the strongest but Goku was stronger than him without transforming.

Super Saiyan 3 Goku was way outmatched by Super Saiyan Baby Vegeta but Strongest Form 2 Baby Vegeta really struggled against Majuub who sorta lost on purpose anyway. Then by the next saga Majuub wailed away at Super 17 and couldn't budge him....but Super Saiyan Goku hit him so hard he went half way around the Earth. Even Vegeta performed better than Majuub and he appeared to be even weaker than Base Goku before.

So either Majuub was actually weaker than Super Saiyan Goku the entire time, Super 17 just let himself have more trouble with Super Saiyan Goku for the fun of it or Goku grew enormously more powerful between the two sagas from doing next to nothing.

[Kaboom]

Ex-member "TheMightyOzaru" asked me on another site to post his Power Levels guide on his behalf, and since he asked nicely I'm obliging.

[jeffbr92]

Ex-member "TheMightyOzaru" asked me on another site to post his Power Levels guide on his behalf, and since he asked nicely I'm obliging.

Good list, but why he quited the forum?

It actually is worse than Super after all.

Was that supposed to be a joke? GT power levels are messy but not on the same level as Super with things like characters training a few days to reach the God realm for we to assume absurd things like: Future Trunks > Vegetto/Gotenks for example.