Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Gog]

After almost 3 months I've got a complete power level list for the show done. Instead of doing it all in one go I did several sagas at a time so I could get peoples opinions and then I took those into account and changed up the list a few times before moving on to the next few sagas.

So this is the culmination of all of that put together. I don't think it's too bad myself, at the least I'm happy with how it turned out, the only thing I'm sort of unsure about is the Fusion saga. Maybe next I'll do the movies or something.

Dragon Ball
[spoiler]Emperor Pilaf saga

Goku – 10
Oozaru Goku – 100

Yamcha – 9
Krillin – 8

Tournament Saga

Goku – 55
Oozaru Goku – 550

Jackie Chun – 60
Krillin – 50
Yamcha – 45

Namu – 51
Giran – 50
Ranfan – 45
Bacterian – 44

Red Ribbon Army Saga

Goku – 60
Goku (Post Korin Training) – 90
Krillin – 50

Major Metallitron – 56
General Blue – 54
Mercenary Tao – 83
Assistant Black – 58

Korin – 96
Bora – 56

Fortuneteller Baba Saga

Goku – 90
Krillin – 50
Yamcha – 45

Grandpa Gohan – 85
Devil man – 76
Bandages – 64
Invisible Man – 40
Fangs – 36

Tien Shinhan Saga

Goku (Tournament Power) – 128
Goku (Battle Power) – 146
Jackie Chun – 126
Krillin – 116
Yamcha – 112

Tien – 138
Chiaotzu – 108
Master Shen – 120

King Chappa – 98

King Piccolo Saga

Goku – 146
Goku (Post Water) – 200
Tien – 138
Yajirobe – 136

King Piccolo (Old) – 165
King Piccolo – 182
King Piccolo (Full Power) – 200
Drum – 152
Tambourine – 132
Cymbal – 120

Kami – 292 
Mr Popo – 265 

Piccolo Jr Saga

Goku – 388
Kami – 292 
Tien – 238
Krillin – 195
Yamcha – 168
Chiaotzu –138

Piccolo Jr – 370
Mercenary Tao – 156[/spoiler]

There's a few problems I have with the Dragon Ball Part of your list. Mecha Mercenary Tao's power should be several times greater than his previous one in the Red Ribbon Arc. And everyone else is far stronger than he is as well.

Old Piccolo Daimo is far stronger than kid Goku, he didn't even need to use half of his power to crush him. God, and Mr Popo are far stronger than Piccolo Daimo when he was in his prime, and in turn Piccolo Jr and Goku are both far stronger than God as well. Yajirobe should also be stronger than Ten, Goku did outright state that he was the toughest person he met so far.

Also, for the rest of your list Goku and Freeza's base powerlevels being at 3M just doesn't work. It's too small of a number.

[Rubens]

In order to fit the powers in the early Dragon Ball, I believe that when characters refer to their power "increasing many times" they mean their overall power. In the specific examples mentioned, I think that Tao Pai Pai was referring to his "Super Dodonpa" which would be his full power, in comparison with his Dodonpa back in the RR Army arc; the same way as Piccolo Daimao's full power being his Bakurikimaha (I think I spelled correctly, it's the attack he uses against Goku before the end of the battle). I admit it might be a bit of a stretch, but if you think about it, characters use to raise their ki momentarily while firing ki attacks then reverting back to their normal fighting power, so when Goku used the kamehameha against Raditz, he also grew many times stronger momentarily. Other possibility is to take those statements as being hyperbolic.

[Desassina]

What is the maximum power that each transformation can reach without turning into the latter? It's the same thing as being asked what kind of power up represents their mortal one. In my opinion:

Base -> God (based on its performance against one SSJ3)
SSJ1 -> SSJG (based on Goku using it all in Battle of Gods)
SSJ2 -> SSJB (based on Trunks fighting alongside a SSJ Blue)
SSJ3 -> SSJB+KKx10 (nothing to base it on except for its use)

If we let each transformation breach into one another, then it's easier to justify a SSJ2 being stronger than a SSJ3, in case Vegeta was attempting God power with rage. It would explain Trunks doing the same, but going farther to include a blue aura, by using a similar trigger to his father's. There's no connection between SSJ3 and Super Kaioken Blue though. One could guess that Goku doesn't use the former because he has the new technique.

[Gog]

In order to fit the powers in the early Dragon Ball, I believe that when characters refer to their power "increasing many times" they mean their overall power. In the specific examples mentioned, I think that Tao Pai Pai was referring to his "Super Dodonpa" which would be his full power, in comparison with his Dodonpa back in the RR Army arc; the same way as Piccolo Daimao's full power being his Bakurikimaha (I think I spelled correctly, it's the attack he uses against Goku before the end of the battle). I admit it might be a bit of a stretch, but if you think about it, characters use to raise their ki momentarily while firing ki attacks then reverting back to their normal fighting power, so when Goku used the kamehameha against Raditz, he also grew many times stronger momentarily. Other possibility is to take those statements as being hyperbolic.

No, nothing ever stated or implied that his Super Dodonpa was his full power. In fact back then Chi didn't have it's incredible increase in power. Even then the full power of a martial artist being the martial artists blast would outright contradict the Ten V Jackie Chun match were it was outright stated that he was using his full power against Jackie Chun. Their full powers have never been considered to be the Chi Blasts, but more so the fighters maximum power itself. In fact King Piccolo's full power being the Bakurikimaha breaks the fact that whenever he goes to is full power it shortens his lifespan. And we do outright see him power up, to his full power.

And there's simply no way that it's hyperbole. For all intents and purposes of the story Tao Pai Pai was several times stronger, why wouldn't he be? Why would the heroes fight against a deluded fool who believed himself to be several times stronger? If it was hyperbole wouldn't the narrative, the story treat it as such? Instead of taking his statement straight faced, and treating it seriously?

There's also another problem I have with his early Dragon Ball list. Goku's power-level is too low for what he accomplishes in the Search For The Dragon Ball Arc.

[DanielSSJ]

No, nothing ever stated or implied that his Super Dodonpa was his full power. In fact back then Chi didn't have it's incredible increase in power. Even then the full power of a martial artist being the martial artists blast would outright contradict the Ten V Jackie Chun match were it was outright stated that he was using his full power against Jackie Chun. Their full powers have never been considered to be the Chi Blasts, but more so the fighters maximum power itself. In fact King Piccolo's full power being the Bakurikimaha breaks the fact that whenever he goes to is full power it shortens his lifespan. And we do outright see him power up, to his full power.

And there's simply no way that it's hyperbole. For all intents and purposes of the story Tao Pai Pai was several times stronger, why wouldn't he be? Why would the heroes fight against a deluded fool who believed himself to be several times stronger? If it was hyperbole wouldn't the narrative, the story treat it as such? Instead of taking his statement straight faced, and treating it seriously?

There's also another problem I have with his early Dragon Ball list. Goku's power-level is too low for what he accomplishes in the Search For The Dragon Ball Arc.

Unfortunately, Goku and Piccolo being in the 300 and 400 range, and Roshi being at 140 at the start of the Saiyan arc leaves things pretty cramped for the early parts of the series, so sometimes you just gotta get creative. Treating their amped up blasts as their "full power" makes things a lot easier. And a lot of the time when a character says something like "Now I'll show you my true strength.", they bust out some special technique or ability, such as when Tenshinhan unleashed the Taiyoken and Majunior stretched his arms to grab Kuririn, so the idea doesn't come from nothing.

And I personally see nothing wrong with Goku being a 10 at the start. Physical strength and Ki strength aren't the same thing. In fact, I think it makes battles much more interesting if we consider how different characters might have different attributes even at similar battle powers. For example, Goku's and Jackie Chun's Kamehamehas were of equal strength in the 21st Budokai, but Goku seemed to be a bit stronger and tougher than the old-timer. Same thing with the fight with Piccolo Daimao. Piccolo was putting out way more power in terms of Ki attacks, but Goku held a strong advantage in hand to hand.

[Bullza]

Don't you think Cui should be with Freeza if he was that close to Dodoria and Zarbon? They pretty much shit on him after he gets killed.

Do they? I don't see any comment like that. They said Cui was at 18,000 right? And both Dodoria and Zarbon were said to below 24,000 which is what Vegeta was at and he sorta pounded them especially Dodoria.

Where's Kuririn's power level on the Freeza fight?

I left him off. He's confusing where to place. Is he supposed to be stronger than when he fought Recoome? I don't know why he would be but that's what the V Jump power levels suggest. If he is stronger I wouldn't know how much stronger he's meant to be.

Trunks stronger than Goku on his first appearance?

Someone gave a reason for this which I sorta agreed with bit I can't remember what it was now. I don't know if had something to do with how he was able to hold his own against the Androids in the Future. Maybe also because he was sort of on the same level as Goku and Vegeta during the Android saga aswell even though he only had 1 year as opposed to 3 for the others.

Do Super next.

I'd like to but it's still all over the place. I don't think it's as confusing as it was because of a few recent episodes but it'd still be tricky I imagine.

There's also another problem I have with his early Dragon Ball list. Goku's power-level is too low for what he accomplishes in the Search For The Dragon Ball Arc.

Well going by what you're saying here and what you've said about Tao then that's where the problem lies with doing power levels for the original Dragon Ball.

Cyborg Tao is likely at 150ish at best. He says he has power many times what he used to have before as a human so even if we went the low end and said he got three times stronger then human Tao would have a power level of 50ish.

Goku beat him and his power level wouldn't have been staggeringly higher than Tao's. After he did that training to get the water, Korin said he grew many times stronger as well, so again if we say he got as little as three times stronger that'd be a power level of about 20ish.

So when you take into account all the training he did under Roshi then it wouldn't fit with you saying that the beginning of Dragon Ball Goku being at 10 is too low.

[Gog]

Well going by what you're saying here and what you've said about Tao then that's where the problem lies with doing power levels for the original Dragon Ball.

Cyborg Tao is likely at 150ish at best. He says he has power many times what he used to have before as a human so even if we went the low end and said he got three times stronger then human Tao would have a power level of 50ish.

Goku beat him and his power level wouldn't have been staggeringly higher than Tao's. After he did that training to get the water, Korin said he grew many times stronger as well, so again if we say he got as little as three times stronger that'd be a power level of about 20ish.

So when you take into account all the training he did under Roshi then it wouldn't fit with you saying that the beginning of Dragon Ball Goku being at 10 is too low.

And that's why for a Dragon Ball only list it's best to ditch the actual 400 numbers. They just cannot function in Early Dragon Ball.

Cyborg Tao outright stated that he has several times the power he had. Not many times. He can't function at a power-level of 150, and If you put it at three times then that simply wouldn't function as well.

Goku barely got any bruises from Tao's strongest attacks, he was far stronger than Tao Pai Pai.

Goku having a power level of 10 at the beginning of Dragon Ball just makes no sense, he survived an axe to the head which actually broke under the full force of the blow, and he survived being hit through stone pillars. A power-level of 10 just doesn't work for what he accomplished in the first arc.

Unfortunately, Goku and Piccolo being in the 300 and 400 range, and Roshi being at 140 at the start of the Saiyan arc leaves things pretty cramped for the early parts of the series, so sometimes you just gotta get creative.

No, if you're going to have a powerlevel list for Dragon Ball Z the 300 and 400 range can work. But if your going to make a proper list for Dragon Ball only you have to ignore the numbers for it to actually work at the end of the day, not get creative otherwise it simply would not be accurate an power level list for Dragon Ball.

Treating their amped up blasts as their "full power" makes things a lot easier. And a lot of the time when a character says something like "Now I'll show you my true strength.", they bust out some special technique or ability, such as when Tenshinhan unleashed the Taiyoken and Majunior stretched his arms to grab Kuririn, so the idea doesn't come from nothing.

I'm not sure how it does make things a lot easier. When Tenshinan unleashed the Taiyoken it was outright stated by Kuririn before hand that he was lying and using his full power before hand. Ma Juinor never said that it was his full power, but his true power, and even then he powered up to delivered a punch to Kuririn.
The idea doesn't hold up for Early Dragon Ball. And once again it also breaks the many times characters are outright stated to power up to their full power. The King Piccolo and Goku fight is an example of that.

And I personally see nothing wrong with Goku being a 10 at the start. Physical strength and Ki strength aren't the same thing. In fact, I think it makes battles much more interesting if we consider how different characters might have different attributes even at similar battle powers. For example, Goku's and Jackie Chun's Kamehamehas were of equal strength in the 21st Budokai, but Goku seemed to be a bit stronger and tougher than the old-timer. Same thing with the fight with Piccolo Daimao. Piccolo was putting out way more power in terms of Ki attacks, but Goku held a strong advantage in hand to hand.

Ki and physical strength are linked, the stronger you are the more Ki you have. They're linked at the end of the day. Jackie Chun only ever beat Goku because his legs were longer meaning it had more oomph to it, and dug in deeper, King Piccolo is a coward, and up against someone even slightly stronger than him he will crumble. Even then his Ki attacks, the really strong ones took ages to charge up. Power is a factor, but in Early Dragon Ball when the fighters were near equals Skill was a factor.

[ZombieVito]

I left him off. He's confusing where to place. Is he supposed to be stronger than when he fought Recoome? I don't know why he would be but that's what the V Jump power levels suggest. If he is stronger I wouldn't know how much stronger he's meant to be.


Someone gave a reason for this which I sorta agreed with bit I can't remember what it was now. I don't know if had something to do with how he was able to hold his own against the Androids in the Future. Maybe also because he was sort of on the same level as Goku and Vegeta during the Android saga aswell even though he only had 1 year as opposed to 3 for the others.

Yes. Vegeta says he was getting stronger. Just not as strong as Gohan.

Future Trunks gets big gains all around. In 3 years he went from under base Future Gohan to surpass Super Saiyan Future Gohan. That's over 50 times stronger.

[Bullza]

Yes. Vegeta says he was getting stronger. Just not as strong as Gohan.

Future Trunks gets big gains all around. In 3 years he went from under base Future Gohan to surpass Super Saiyan Future Gohan. That's over 50 times stronger.

But when he said they were getting stronger was he just talking about from when they got to Namek or even earlier? If Krillin was at 13,000 against Guldo after he'd had his potential unlocked then how would he be stronger by the time they fought Frieza?

One set of power levels has him jumping up to 75,000 and I don't know where that came from because it's not like he can get zenkai boosts unlike Gohan.


I did originally have Future Trunks as being less than a 50th of Base Gohan based on the Super Saiyan Trunks Vs Base Gohan spar but then I noticed that Gohan said that Trunks would leave him in the dust in a few months.

It would seem a bit of a push that Trunks would get well over 50 times stronger in just a few months.

[Rubens]

No, nothing ever stated or implied that his Super Dodonpa was his full power. In fact back then Chi didn't have it's incredible increase in power. Even then the full power of a martial artist being the martial artists blast would outright contradict the Ten V Jackie Chun match were it was outright stated that he was using his full power against Jackie Chun. Their full powers have never been considered to be the Chi Blasts, but more so the fighters maximum power itself. In fact King Piccolo's full power being the Bakurikimaha breaks the fact that whenever he goes to is full power it shortens his lifespan. And we do outright see him power up, to his full power.

And there's simply no way that it's hyperbole. For all intents and purposes of the story Tao Pai Pai was several times stronger, why wouldn't he be? Why would the heroes fight against a deluded fool who believed himself to be several times stronger? If it was hyperbole wouldn't the narrative, the story treat it as such? Instead of taking his statement straight faced, and treating it seriously?

There's also another problem I have with his early Dragon Ball list. Goku's power-level is too low for what he accomplishes in the Search For The Dragon Ball Arc.

Unfortunately, Goku and Piccolo being in the 300 and 400 range, and Roshi being at 140 at the start of the Saiyan arc leaves things pretty cramped for the early parts of the series, so sometimes you just gotta get creative. Treating their amped up blasts as their "full power" makes things a lot easier. And a lot of the time when a character says something like "Now I'll show you my true strength.", they bust out some special technique or ability, such as when Tenshinhan unleashed the Taiyoken and Majunior stretched his arms to grab Kuririn, so the idea doesn't come from nothing.

And I personally see nothing wrong with Goku being a 10 at the start. Physical strength and Ki strength aren't the same thing. In fact, I think it makes battles much more interesting if we consider how different characters might have different attributes even at similar battle powers. For example, Goku's and Jackie Chun's Kamehamehas were of equal strength in the 21st Budokai, but Goku seemed to be a bit stronger and tougher than the old-timer. Same thing with the fight with Piccolo Daimao. Piccolo was putting out way more power in terms of Ki attacks, but Goku held a strong advantage in hand to hand.

DanielSSJ pretty much said what I meant: the 139 - 400 gap is too little of a gap to cope with the "many/several times" statements rather than taking them literally. And why can't they be hyperbolic? It's not like they have a way of measuring their power.

On the other hand I agree with Gog about Goku's power of 10 being way too low, given his feats. In fact there was a topic somewhere (in the in-universe section? can't remember) about that and I think, if there was no guide stating a battle power 10, nobody would even consider such a low number in the first place.

[Kaboom]

I prefer using creative explanations for these pre-Raditz numbers (and most other "controversial" ones) rather than just dismissing anything outright.

For Goku's 10, it's easy to assume that while his power level (i.e. "ki amount") is only 10, he has a substantial extra edge over anyone else at that PL in physical strength and toughness from being a Saiyan. So he's got ki-power of 10 but melee combat abilities on-par with, like, 30 or something. Easy-peasy.

For all the hyperbolic "many times" and "several times" statements about other early DB characters, I just remember that power levels could fluctuate a whole heckuva lot depending on what the character was doing. So figures like Goku and Piccolo's 260 could just be considered basic starting powers, and their strength could very well surge quite higher when they fight. Like how Goku and Piccolo went from 400 up to around 1,000 against Raditz when they charged their attacks.

I've been meaning for a while to figure out and add some pre-Raditz numbers to my list based on the official ones and using that approach, but I still just haven't gotten around to it.

[Gog]

DanielSSJ pretty much said what I meant: the 139 - 400 gap is too little of a gap to cope with the "many/several times" statements rather than taking them literally. And why can't they be hyperbolic? It's not like they have a way of measuring their power.

On the other hand I agree with Gog about Goku's power of 10 being way too low, given his feats. In fact there was a topic somewhere (in the in-universe section? can't remember) about that and I think, if there was no guide stating a battle power 10, nobody would even consider such a low number in the first place.

And that leads into my other point. For a Dragon Ball only list you have to ignore those numbers otherwise the list would simply not be accurate at the end of the day to Early Dragon Ball. Why would those be hyperbole? For all intents and purposes they were the truth, nothing ever treated Tao Pai Pai's several times increase in power statement as hyperbole, nothing ever went King Piccolo might be exaggerating his power against Goku.

By that logic then Kaio Ken x 20 isn't Kaio Ken x 20 because we can't measure the power of it, Freeza's second form doesn't double his strength because we have no way measuring his power. Cell can't destroy the Solar System because that's obviously hyperbole, all of the Saiyans statements of holding back so they won't destroy the planet in the Android Saga is obviously hyperbole considering we have no way of measuring his power. We can pretty much dismiss all stated information with that kind of logic.

Yes!

[dragonball0900]

I think what Cyborg Tao said it can be true, and it is indeed possible, more or less like 3 times stronger could be.

However, I'm not convinced with Old King Piccolo's statement. First of all, there has to be a big gap between Raditz' 1,200 with Goku and Piccolo's power. Then there has to be a larger gap between Goku/Piccolo with Kami, Tien and the others (based on how no one would defeat Piccolo even if they ganged up against him). Then we have another gap with the statement of Young King Piccolo being much stronger than Old King Piccolo. And then we have another larger gap from the 22nd Budokai characters to Old King Piccolo if we take the whole "less than half of my strenght" quote seriously. Then we have all the gaps between the Red Ribbon arc up to the 22nd Budokai arc, and the boosts that Goku and Krillin made in the beggining of the series in their training with Roshi. Not to mention that even before that training, they were already showing feats far above a power level of 10.

Don't you think that when he said that about "less than half of his strenght", he might be referring to his young self? I mean, he was still old at that point, but maybe he was confident that his "less than half of his strenght" was just the power from his old counterpart, and that when he gets young with the Dragon Balls, he gains more than half of his strenght, gaining his full power in his young state. Don't you think that might be possible? It's speculation, but it might resolve most things.

[Rubens]

And that leads into my other point. For a Dragon Ball only list you have to ignore those numbers otherwise the list would simply not be accurate at the end of the day to Early Dragon Ball. Why would those be hyperbole? For all intents and purposes they were the truth, nothing ever treated Tao Pai Pai's several times increase in power statement as hyperbole, nothing ever went King Piccolo might be exaggerating his power against Goku.
By that logic then Kaio Ken x 20 isn't Kaio Ken x 20 because we can't measure the power of it, Freeza's second form doesn't double his strength because we have no way measuring his power. Cell can't destroy the Solar System because that's obviously hyperbole, all of the Saiyans statements of holding back so they won't destroy the planet in the Android Saga is obviously hyperbole considering we have no way of measuring his power. We can pretty much dismiss all stated information with that kind of logic.

That's... You're distorting things a bit. What I meant was, from my perspective, in a part of the story where power had no specific numerical value, anyone can boast about their power because their true power was their best attack. I have no doubt that Muten Roshi, for example, was much stronger in his "buff form" for his full powered kamehameha (which he never used in combat until Super) than his regular form while fighting. With that in mind, that's the only way I see possible to fit the remaining battle powers in the 139-400 gap (or 250 which is Tenshinhan's BP at the beginning of Z). I think it's not right to ignore the BP at the start of the saiyan arc because that chapter is the continuity of the 23rd tenka'ichi budoukai arc and it's all part of the same manga - however, if you prefer to ignore them I understand, it's your option and I respect that (the same way I prefer to ignore any "official" data outside the manga & anime). In the saiyan arc, one can argue that the characters somewhat have an idea of how to put their battle powers in numerical terms, even if not 100% accurate, by being exposed to the experience - so in Goku's case, I believe he already has an idea of how much his kaio-ken multiplies his power because a) the "basic" kaioken doubles his power and b) he had his battle power measured before so he somewhat knows how he stands compared to the others in numerical terms - although I admit the "b)" part is mostly conjecture from my behalf so if you don't agree, that's cool with me.

[Gog]

That's... You're distorting things a bit. What I meant was, from my perspective, in a part of the story where power had no specific numerical value, anyone can boast about their power because their true power was their best attack

I think you've completely missed the point of Early Dragon Ball. In Early Dragon Ball never once was someones attack their full power. The Martial Artist in question always had to power up for them to reach their full power at the end of the day. Which is consistently a trend in Early Dragon Ball. At most all we got was Ten saying he was going to unleash his full power only to be confirmed by Kuririn to be lying, and using the Solar Flare.

I think it's not right to ignore the BP at the start of the saiyan arc because that chapter is the continuity of the 23rd tenka'ichi budoukai arc and it's all part of the same manga - however, if you prefer to ignore them I understand, it's your option and I respect that (the same way I prefer to ignore any "official" data outside the manga & anime).

And with that logic I can completely flip it on it's head. It's not right to ignore stated fact in Early Dragon Ball, and dismiss it all as Hyperbole even when the narrative never treated it as such, it's not right saying that a Martial Artists Full Power is their attacks, even when it's consistently shown and stated to not be the case at the end of the day. The simple fact of the matter is if you want to make a Power Level List for Early Dragon Ball, and solely for Early Dragon Ball then you have to ignore the 400 Powerlevels. Which, Toriyama just slapped on with no prior thought at the end of the day.

[DanielSSJ]

I prefer Kaboom's idea that the characters' battle power varies heavily depending on what they're doing. King Piccolo might be 200 something while standing around, but when he forcibly powers up, he could rise up to 400 or 500, whereas Goku and Majunior had standby powers of 400, which rose to about a thousand when they used their super moves. Thinking about it, I think King Piccolo's "full power" state would be more comparable to Super Saiyan Grade 2/3, Freeza's 100%, or Roshi's max power, in that he's straining himself beyond what he's normally capable of rather than just releasing ki he wasn't already using. He does say that using his full power shortens his life, after all.

Honestly, it's not too hard to make a list that has Taopaipai become at least twice as strong when he comes back. One of my old lists had him around 75 upon his introduction and then jump to the official 210 number by the 23rd Tournament, and that's almost a three-fold boost. As far as Goku getting "many times stronger" after training with Karin, I usually take that statement as being a cumulative improvement in overall ability, rather than just an increase in raw power. After all, Karin specifically pointed out that Goku needed to learn to anticipate his enemies' moves rather than just react to them. Of course, it's still pretty easy to give Goku a multi-fold boost in strength if that explanation doesn't fly with you either.

[LightBing]

Personally the only statement I take literally is Piccolo Daimao's less than half. Not just because half is always that, half, no matter what numerical scale your using and because of the significance of these half/50% statements in Dragon Ball. It's a common way for Mr.Toriyama to provide a reference to put the current power scale in perspective(while hyping up x character), the most famous occasion is of course 50% Freeza.

The x times lines, the fact is Battle Powers are something created by aliens and for that reason I'm 100% sure the characters weren't thinking about it when talking. Battle Powers don't fall on the usual math logic. Three 500 power people versus one 1000 person will lose almost always, without the help of special techniques.

I take those claims as if I said: "I'm 10 times stronger than when I was 14". Which it both means nothing and something; nothing because there's no scale I'm using, it's based on feeling; something because while inaccurate it still gives the idea that I got much stronger than when I was 14.

[Gog]

I prefer Kaboom's idea that the characters' battle power varies heavily depending on what they're doing. King Piccolo might be 200 something while standing around, but when he forcibly powers up, he could rise up to 400 or 500, whereas Goku and Majunior had standby powers of 400, which rose to about a thousand when they used their super moves. Thinking about it, I think King Piccolo's "full power" state would be more comparable to Super Saiyan Grade 2/3, Freeza's 100%, or Roshi's max power, in that he's straining himself beyond what he's normally capable of rather than just releasing ki he wasn't already using. He does say that using his full power shortens his life, after all.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

It's really only his fullpower at the end of the day, nothing more, and nothing less. It's just more dramatic that it shortens his life span whenever he uses it. And even then Goku was slightly more powerful than his full power. Master Roshi's full power is a gag at heart, so I don't really treat it as anything serious. Also, Freeza's full power is his full power, he just can't control it, and Goku made a point after their battle that it's best if he learns to control his stamina.

Honestly, it's not too hard to make a list that has Taopaipai become at least twice as strong when he comes back. One of my old lists had him around 75 upon his introduction and then jump to the official 210 number by the 23rd Tournament, and that's almost a three-fold boost.

But, you would be outright contradicting stated fact in the manga:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

There's no wiggle room with his statement here. He got several times stronger. If you ignore that then it wouldn't be an accurate Dragon Ball list at all.

As far as Goku getting "many times stronger" after training with Karin, I usually take that statement as being a cumulative improvement in overall ability, rather than just an increase in raw power. After all, Karin specifically pointed out that Goku needed to learn to anticipate his enemies' moves rather than just react to them. Of course, it's still pretty easy to give Goku a multi-fold boost in strength if that explanation doesn't fly with you either.

There's also no wiggle room with that, Goku did get many times stronger, nothing contradicts Karin's statement, in fact his performance against Tao Pai Pai after having the training outright proves it to be true.

Goku doesn't even harm Tao Pai Pai before doing Karin's training, at best all he did was ruin the Assassins clothes. In fact when Tao Pai Pai fired a Dodonpa at Goku, Goku was put in a near death state by the blast, and would have died if the four star Dragon Ball was not in the way of the blast.

And, as Tao Pai Pai outright states he wasn't even being serious after Goku climbs down from Karin's tower. Tao Pai Pai was also reduced to a mess after a few hits from Goku, and when Goku was pummeled by him after Karin's training, at best all he did was get a sarcastic reply from Goku about him being really good, and strong. Which, paired with Tao's statement of him being a monster holds up.

And when Tao fired his strongest attack at him, the Donopa at best all it did was singe Goku's hands.

There isn't any wiggle room here, Goku got a lot stronger from Karin's training. And, heck this isn't mentioning the power up the Ultra Divine Water gave Goku, or the power up he got from Master Roshi, or the power up he got from God and Mr Popo. Which are all absolutely massive power ups for Goku.

[DanielSSJ]

It's really only his fullpower at the end of the day, nothing more, and nothing less. It's just more dramatic that it shortens his life span whenever he uses it. And even then Goku was slightly more powerful than his full power. Master Roshi's full power is a gag at heart, so I don't really treat it as anything serious. Also, Freeza's full power is his full power, he just can't control it, and Goku made a point after their battle that it's best if he learns to control his stamina.

No one else in the series shortens their lifespan when they power up, and Freeza and Muten Roshi are the only ones who bulk up considerably and loses a great deal of stamina when they use their "full power", which sounds very similar to Super Saiyan Grade 2/3. So you'll have to forgive me if I think that these guys are doing something other than just releasing their unused ki like everyone else. Besides, I don't really see how Muten Roshi's max power is a gag. Every time that he used it in the manga was during a serious moment, whether it was for extinguishing Mt. Frypan's fire or for destroying the Moon. The only time it was used as a gag that I can remember was in DBZ Movie 8.

But, you would be outright contradicting stated fact in the manga:
There's no wiggle room with his statement here. He got several times stronger. If you ignore that then it wouldn't be an accurate Dragon Ball list at all.

Three times is several. It'd be pretty easy to drop Taopaipai from 75 to exactly 70, which is exactly three times less than 210.

There's also no wiggle room with that, Goku did get many times stronger, nothing contradicts Karin's statement, in fact his performance against Tao Pai Pai after having the training outright proves it to be true.

Goku doesn't even harm Tao Pai Pai before doing Karin's training, at best all he did was ruin the Assassins clothes. In fact when Tao Pai Pai fired a Dodonpa at Goku, Goku was put in a near death state by the blast, and would have died if the four star Dragon Ball was not in the way of the blast.

And, as Tao Pai Pai outright states he wasn't even being serious after Goku climbs down from Karin's tower. Tao Pai Pai was also reduced to a mess after a few hits from Goku, and when Goku was pummeled by him after Karin's training, at best all he did was get a sarcastic reply from Goku about him being really good, and strong. Which, paired with Tao's statement of him being a monster holds up.

And when Tao fired his strongest attack at him, the Donopa at best all it did was singe Goku's hands.

There isn't any wiggle room here, Goku got a lot stronger from Karin's training. And, heck this isn't mentioning the power up the Ultra Divine Water gave Goku, or the power up he got from Master Roshi, or the power up he got from God and Mr Popo. Which are all absolutely massive power ups for Goku.

Yes, Goku got a great deal physically stronger from training with Karin. All I said was that he didn't necessarily become literally many times stronger than he was. The point of that part of my post was to illustrate that being "many times stronger" could refer to an increase of strength and skill. Since, you know, Karin specifically pointed out that Goku was lacking in skill? If Goku doubled his strength and became a more capable fighter, he could be considered many times stronger than he was, and could've beat Taopaipai like a red-headed stepchild. And it looks like you missed the last part of my post.

Of course, it's still pretty easy to give Goku a multi-fold boost in strength if that explanation doesn't fly with you either.

[Bullza]

As I've finished with doing the power levels for the original series, I had done power levels for the movies when I watched them all over the past few months. These are a bit tricky to do. For now I'll just post the power levels for the first four movies.

Dead Zone

Goku (Weights) – 334 
Goku – 416 

Piccolo (Weights) – 322 
Piccolo – 408 

Gohan (Enraged) – 1,307 
Kami – 290

Garlic Jr – 362
Super Garlic Jr – 500 
Ginger – 258 
Nicky – 258 
Sansho – 258 

The World’s Strongest

Goku – 8,000 
Goku (Kaioken x2) – 16,000 
Goku (Kaioken x3) – 24,000 
Goku (Kaioken x4) – 32,000 

Piccolo – 7,600 
Gohan – 1,900 
Krillin – 1,770 

Dr Wheelo – 27,000 
Dr Wheelo (Powered Up) – 40,000 
Ebifurya – 7,100 
Misokatsun – 7,100 
Kishime – 7,100 

The Tree of Might

Goku – 30,000 
Goku (Kaioken x2) – 60,000 
Goku (Kaioken x10) – 300,000 

Piccolo – 18,000 
Gohan – 10,000 
Tien – 8,100 
Krillin – 7,900 
Yamcha – 7,300 
Chiaotzu – 3,600 

Turles – 22,500 
Turles (Post Fruit) – 375,000 
Daiz – 13,000 
Amond – 9,100 
Cacao – 8,400 
Rasin – 8,000 
Lakasei – 7,600 

Lord Slug

Goku – 90,000 
Goku (False Super Saiyan) – 4,500,000 
Goku (Kaioken x100) – 9,000,000 

Piccolo – 47,500 
Gohan – 14,000 

Lord Slug – 3,600,000 
Lord Slug (Great Namek) – 6,600,000 
Agila – 47,000 
Medamatcha – 47,000 
Wings – 38,000