Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[dragonball0900]

Here's my take on highest possible number for buu (I do not agree with them all, but they are logical reasoning):
[spoiler]1. Freeza is 120 million, Goku is 150 million.
2. Mecha freeza is atleast 160 M, so Yadrat goku is 200 million to beat him and king cold at once.
3. Android arc sick goku was barely equal to #19, and far beyond 200 million, atleast 250 million (Tien's reaction)
4. #19 even after absorbing so much power, and then absorbing much more power with Vegeta, was weaker than weakened vegeta.
#19 = 400million, weakened vegeta = 500 million (one shotted 19)
5. Dr Gero was stronger than vegeta, absorbed some power from him, and piccolo. Piccolo still stomped him.
Dr gero = 550 million, after absorption = 660 million , piccolo = 800 million.
6. Kami doubled piccolo's power = 1.6 bil
7. Imperfect cell utterly stomped piccolo = 2.2 bil
8. Semiperfect cell is much more powerful than just the sum of imp cell & 17, since it is important in his evolution. 4.5 bil. He powered up signigicantly against vegeta = 5 bil
9. Vegeta stomped him = 6.6 bil
10. Perfect cell no-sold him like semi-cell vs #16 = 12 bil, bulk trunks was stronger = 13.2 bil. Bulk cell was even stronger, using same multipliers = 24 bil
11. 50% goku was strongest thing ever seen = 25 bil called cell too strong = 30 bil (expected)
12. Vegeta was stronger than expected cell = 35 bil, cell jr was stronger = 37 bil. Piccolo fought well against cell jrs = 32 bil.
13. In buu arc, Piccolo is atleast as strong as CG Goku since he is excited to fight goku, vegeta and gohan = 50 bil (not unreasonable)
14. Kaioshin was dimensions too different in power = same multiplier as SS weakened goku vs tien (Tien can't be more than 1 million for obvious reasons)
Kaioshin = 12500 billion = 12.5 tril
15. Kaioshin is scared of pui pui = 15 tril, who got wtfstomped by vegeta in base = 30 tril
16. Vegeta powers up by almost 2x using babidi = 50 tril
17. SS3 Goku = 20000 tril = 20 quadril[/spoiler]
Kid buu was equal to SS3 goku, but he was toying = 20 quad, full power = 25 quadrillion.

Yeah, well, I don't agree with Buu arc Piccolo being equal to Cell Games Goku, and I would put his Cell Games version at 25 or somewhere else, with Buu arc version at 35. But the whole rest is perfect in your resolution.

I see.
What about lowest possible number for kid buu? (Using freeza's 120 million ofcourse)

My standard power level list puts him at 12 billion, but IMO, careful precision and attempt to control inflation can bring it down to 3-4 billion. I don't think any lower is possible.

Well. That's a bit more difficult. I have Base Goku at Buu Saga at 90,000,000, with SSJ3 being a X400 multiplier would be 36,000,000,000, with Kid Buu possibly being a 30,000,000,000. However, trying to put him lower would be a bit difficult for me. Although using less common sense, I managed to put him like 5 billion.

[The gr]

power levels

I like your list but didn't mr buu got a rage boost in episode 79, because it make sense if he get rage boost

[DBZ Macky]

I like your list but didn't mr buu got a rage boost in episode 79, because it make sense if he get rage boost

Not necessarily. Goku once said that Buu's Ki is "like a lie", so it's really hard to measure him unless he gets serious. And he only get's serious when someone manages to piss him off.
Though it is convenient to have 2 different levels for him, one "base" and the other "enraged".

[Rubens]

Do you guys think it's possible that (fat) Boo, in his regular power, is about as strong as Mr. Boo (still fat, but the final "product") - thus a bit stronger than ssj2 majin Vegeta - but when he enrages, the power/ki he unleashes is equivalent to that of evil Boo (aka "Super" Boo)? That would eventualy explain the process of his transformation, that is, when grey Boo appears; this evil side could represent the evil "portion" of his power (whereas fat Boo could represent the "good portion") that further takes over Boo's body and power.

In other words (if I was confusing):

Majin Boo (the first form) = Majin Boo's regular power (=Mr. Boo>SSj2 majin Vegeta) + evil power (=grey Boo) --> total ki outburst

This would suggest his power is unstable and that he only outputs his full power when he enrages, which is when he "harnesses" the evil part.

Super/Evil Boo = Majin Boo's regular power (=Mr. Boo>SSj2 majin Vegeta) + evil power (=grey Boo) --> total ki available

In this case, it means that this version of Boo can easily access all the ki the previous Boo struggled to. This struggle could be related to Dai Kaioshin's presence. The only problem is that I don't know where pure/kid Boo fits.

[The gr]

I like your list but didn't mr buu got a rage boost in episode 79, because it make sense if he get rage boost

Not necessarily. Goku once said that Buu's Ki is "like a lie", so it's really hard to measure him unless he gets serious. And he only get's serious when someone manages to piss him off.
Though it is convenient to have 2 different levels for him, one "base" and the other "enraged".

so when buu gets enraged,his power increases similar to his evil self

[dragonball0900]

Hi everyone. Here are my power level lists for the early Buu Saga (from Babidi up to Fat Buu):

[spoiler]Gohan - 65,000,000
SSJ Gohan - 3,250,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan - 6,500,000,000

It's already obviously known that Gohan got weaker 7 years after the Cell Games, since he never trained through that time. His power would drop closer to what Goku had back in the Cell Games, which is 60,000,000. I decided to put Gohan at 65,000,000, being stronger than his father. The reason is because I still think Gohan was still slightly stronger than Cell Arc Goku even after 7 years. Though they could be equal.


Vegeta - 72,000,000
SSJ Vegeta - 3,600,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta - 7,200,000,000
SSJ Majin Vegeta - 4,500,000,000
SSJ2 Majin Vegeta - 9,000,000,000

Out of the 3 people that train (Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo), I think Vegeta is the only one that increased his power more than twice the previous one (38,000,000). That's because he was stated to be stronger than Gohan, as well as his methods of training which were more efficient than Goku's (Vegeta trained with high gravity level). I'd put Vegeta just a bit stronger than Cell Arc Gohan (70,000,00). They can be equal too, but I'd give Vegeta the edge.

Then when he gets his Majin increase, which is a 1.25 multiplier in my version, he gets to the same level Goku has.


Goku - 90,000,000
SSJ Goku - 4,500,000,000
SSJ2 Goku - 9,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku - 36,000,000,000

Goku is simply the strongest out of the saiyans, he manages to surpass the 70% of Frieza. But still, his base is much weaker than Full Power Frieza. If both were to fight, the fight would be way too similar to the one between Kaioken X3 Goku (24,000) vs Vegeta, in which the former beats the later one.

That's obviously without the SSJ transformation. In this state, I put him equal to Perfect Cell, since I don't think anyone of the SSJ's manage to surpass Full Power Perfect Cell yet.

Goku is much stronger than Cell Arc Gohan and Buu Arc Vegeta in base, SSJ and SSJ2. And even so, there's still the SSJ3 transformation, which multiplies his SSJ2 power 4 times.

I made his increase from training in the after life a x1.5 increase, since I think that's a good increase enough for his training.


Majin Buu (Fat Buu) - 15,000,000,000

Majin Buu is much stronger than SSJ2 Majin Vegeta and Goku. But he is much weaker than SSJ3 Goku. I'd say he is much closer to Vegeta than Goku though, since all Buu relied was on his regeneration.


Dabura - 3,400,000,000

This one was very difficult to place at first, given Goku's statement that he had the same power level as Cell.

I'm one of those who believe that Gohan was only a SSJ against Dabura, since that's what is shown in the manga. However, he could be a SSJ2 since there's a guide that states that (even though there's still another guide that says he was a SSJ). I will say he was a SSJ.

I will also say that Dabura is nearly as strong as the Cell that Goku and Gohan fought. Considering Goku said that Dabura was tougher than what he thought, it's possible that Dabura was much stronger than the Cell that Goku and Gohan fought. Just to note, that I have that version of Cell at 3,200,000,000. Cell Arc Gohan was losing to him since he didn't want to fight at the time. Having Dabura at 3,400,000,000, being similar to that version of Cell, as well as being stronger than Buu Arc Gohan, makes sense to me.


Supreme Kai - 2,500,000,000

Kibito - 60,000,000

Supreme Kai is stated in the Daizenshuu, and Piccolo in the manga, that Supreme Kai was way way stronger than Piccolo, to the point where Piccolo even stated that his and Supreme Kai's dimensions were too different.

BUT, he is also stated to be weaker than SSJ Gohan, since it was mentioned by Kibito that Supreme Kai wasn't able to take the sword out from the rock. And we see in the manga that Gohan as a SSJ doing it (although with a lot of effort). Take into consideration, that NO guidebook stated that Gohan was a SSJ2 at all, and why would Gohan became a SSJ2 from the start? He was also drawn as a SSJ2. It's obvious that he was only a SSJ.

That means that Supreme Kai is weaker than SSJ Gohan, but a lot stronger than Piccolo, so I decided to make the gap between Supreme Kai and Piccolo larger than the one with Gohan.

Kibito is much easier to put. He's stated in the Daizenshuu that he and Gohan are able to make a tough fight, as long as Gohan was not a SSJ. At first we don't know who is stronger, but considering that later Kibito was shown not to be able to lift the Z sword, and Base Gohan and Goku did it, that automatically puts Kibito weaker than Gohan, but not that much apart from Gohan, since they have to be able to put an admirable fight.


Weighted Piccolo - 1,400,000,000
Piccolo - 1,800,000,000

This is the most controversial one, not only on youtube or any other place, but also on this forumn.

Piccolo is a guy who is always traning, that's without a doubt. BUT, that doesn't mean his increases in training through the 7 years have to be like 2 or 3 or 5 or 10 or 100 times. And he's not a saiyan. I decided to make his training boost much like Goku's: x1.5. Back in the Cell Arc, I have him at 1,200,000,000. Now he's at 1,800,000,000.

Another controversial topic is that weather or not he surpassed a Cell Jr, or that he got to the level of Cell Arc Goku. For the ones that think those 2 things are correct, I'm sorry but I have to respectfully say that you're wrong. As I mentioned above in both the Gohan and Supreme Kai sections. Gohan didn't train for 7 years and he got weaker. And he wasn't that much stronger than Goku in the Cell Arc, that means that in the Buu Arc he could be very close to his level.

Then we have Supreme Kai, who is weaker than that very same weakened SSJ Gohan. Indirectly that means that Supreme Kai is also weaker than Cell Arc Goku. And then we have Piccolo who is WAY below Supreme Kai. That means that Piccolo is WAY below Cell Arc Goku, and WAY below Supreme Kai. Piccolo can probably be, (and that's being generous), just somewhere between 55% to 60% of Cell Arc Goku and Buu Arc Gohan.

He probably never surpassed a Cell Jr either, since that's pure speculation from various fans around here. He might be equal to them, but not surpassing them, that's not possible, considering all the statements we got from guides, Toriyama and his manga.

Just to note, the power levels I give to Cell Arc Goku and Cell Jrs are 3,000,000,000 and 2,000,000,000 respectively.


Trunks - 36,000,000
SSJ Trunks - 1,800,000,000

Goten - 30,000,000
SSJ Goten - 1,500,000,000

The kids are stated to be way way stronger than Android 18, that's fact since we saw it in the tournament. However, we don't know how strong they are compared to the other characters. However, they are able to impress Gohan and Vegeta. Goten was able to make Gohan struggle, as well as Trunks to Vegeta.

That doesn't mean I will put them close to them. I decided to put both of them nearly half of Gohan and Vegeta's strenght, because even though they managed to impress Gohan and Vegeta, it was still just a sparring of training, not a real fight.

But still, what the Goten and Trunks did was still impressive, and are feats that not even Semi Perfect Cell would do, probably not even ASSJ Vegeta, since he was much weaker than Initial Perfect Cell, who was weaker than Cell Games Vegeta, who was much weaker than Buu Arc Gohan and Vegeta. I personally put Trunks at Cell Games Vegeta.

And even though Goten's power was stated to be not the least bit inferior to Gohan, I take it more as Goten after the training in the Room of Spirit and Time.


Yakon - 100,000,000

This one is easy to place. Goku was having problems with Yakon. And Gohan said that they can beat him if he and Goku fought together without using SSJ. For Goku to at least be able to fight Yakon, Yakon has to be weaker than Frieza. I'd personally put his level at 100,000,000.


Pui Pui - 180,000

We don't know Pui Pui's strenght at all. But I've seen some people comparing him to Saiyan Saga Vegeta, and I said: why not? So I decided to put his level at 180,000, which is Oozaru Vegeta's level. Just to make him not that weak.


Krillin - 1,060,000

Krillin didn't train for 7 years, so he is much weaker than his Cell Arc counterpart (1,200,000). That makes him this number. He is still stronger than Tien though, but just slightly since I don't agree that he is stronger than Tien in Super.


Tien - 950,000

As I said, Tien closed the gap he had with Krillin.


Yamcha - 265,000

Yamcha didn't train at all, so he got weaker too from his previous 300,000 reading.


Chiaotzu - 125,000

Chiaotzu is the weakest of everyone. He at least manages to surpass Captain Ginyu.[/spoiler]


And that's all. The Fusion arc power levels are coming soon. Put your thoughts down below.

[The gr]

Hi everyone. Here are my power level lists for the early Buu Saga (from Babidi up to Fat Buu):

[spoiler]Gohan - 65,000,000
SSJ Gohan - 3,250,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan - 6,500,000,000

It's already obviously known that Gohan got weaker 7 years after the Cell Games, since he never trained through that time. His power would drop closer to what Goku had back in the Cell Games, which is 60,000,000. I decided to put Gohan at 65,000,000, being stronger than his father. The reason is because I still think Gohan was still slightly stronger than Cell Arc Goku even after 7 years. Though they could be equal.


Vegeta - 72,000,000
SSJ Vegeta - 3,600,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta - 7,200,000,000
SSJ Majin Vegeta - 4,500,000,000
SSJ2 Majin Vegeta - 9,000,000,000

Out of the 3 people that train (Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo), I think Vegeta is the only one that increased his power more than twice the previous one (38,000,000). That's because he was stated to be stronger than Gohan, as well as his methods of training which were more efficient than Goku's (Vegeta trained with high gravity level). I'd put Vegeta just a bit stronger than Cell Arc Gohan (70,000,00). They can be equal too, but I'd give Vegeta the edge.

Then when he gets his Majin increase, which is a 1.25 multiplier in my version, he gets to the same level Goku has.


Goku - 90,000,000
SSJ Goku - 4,500,000,000
SSJ2 Goku - 9,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku - 36,000,000,000

Goku is simply the strongest out of the saiyans, he manages to surpass the 70% of Frieza. But still, his base is much weaker than Full Power Frieza. If both were to fight, the fight would be way too similar to the one between Kaioken X3 Goku (24,000) vs Vegeta, in which the former beats the later one.

That's obviously without the SSJ transformation. In this state, I put him equal to Perfect Cell, since I don't think anyone of the SSJ's manage to surpass Full Power Perfect Cell yet.

Goku is much stronger than Cell Arc Gohan and Buu Arc Vegeta in base, SSJ and SSJ2. And even so, there's still the SSJ3 transformation, which multiplies his SSJ2 power 4 times.

I made his increase from training in the after life a x1.5 increase, since I think that's a good increase enough for his training.


Majin Buu (Fat Buu) - 15,000,000,000

Majin Buu is much stronger than SSJ2 Majin Vegeta and Goku. But he is much weaker than SSJ3 Goku. I'd say he is much closer to Vegeta than Goku though, since all Buu relied was on his regeneration.


Dabura - 3,400,000,000

This one was very difficult to place at first, given Goku's statement that he had the same power level as Cell.

I'm one of those who believe that Gohan was only a SSJ against Dabura, since that's what is shown in the manga. However, he could be a SSJ2 since there's a guide that states that (even though there's still another guide that says he was a SSJ). I will say he was a SSJ.

I will also say that Dabura is nearly as strong as the Cell that Goku and Gohan fought. Considering Goku said that Dabura was tougher than what he thought, it's possible that Dabura was much stronger than the Cell that Goku and Gohan fought. Just to note, that I have that version of Cell at 3,200,000,000. Cell Arc Gohan was losing to him since he didn't want to fight at the time. Having Dabura at 3,400,000,000, being similar to that version of Cell, as well as being stronger than Buu Arc Gohan, makes sense to me.


Supreme Kai - 2,500,000,000

Kibito - 60,000,000

Supreme Kai is stated in the Daizenshuu, and Piccolo in the manga, that Supreme Kai was way way stronger than Piccolo, to the point where Piccolo even stated that his and Supreme Kai's dimensions were too different.

BUT, he is also stated to be weaker than SSJ Gohan, since it was mentioned by Kibito that Supreme Kai wasn't able to take the sword out from the rock. And we see in the manga that Gohan as a SSJ doing it (although with a lot of effort). Take into consideration, that NO guidebook stated that Gohan was a SSJ2 at all, and why would Gohan became a SSJ2 from the start? He was also drawn as a SSJ2. It's obvious that he was only a SSJ.

That means that Supreme Kai is weaker than SSJ Gohan, but a lot stronger than Piccolo, so I decided to make the gap between Supreme Kai and Piccolo larger than the one with Gohan.

Kibito is much easier to put. He's stated in the Daizenshuu that he and Gohan are able to make a tough fight, as long as Gohan was not a SSJ. At first we don't know who is stronger, but considering that later Kibito was shown not to be able to lift the Z sword, and Base Gohan and Goku did it, that automatically puts Kibito weaker than Gohan, but not that much apart from Gohan, since they have to be able to put an admirable fight.


Weighted Piccolo - 1,400,000,000
Piccolo - 1,800,000,000

This is the most controversial one, not only on youtube or any other place, but also on this forumn.

Piccolo is a guy who is always traning, that's without a doubt. BUT, that doesn't mean his increases in training through the 7 years have to be like 2 or 3 or 5 or 10 or 100 times. And he's not a saiyan. I decided to make his training boost much like Goku's: x1.5. Back in the Cell Arc, I have him at 1,200,000,000. Now he's at 1,800,000,000.

Another controversial topic is that weather or not he surpassed a Cell Jr, or that he got to the level of Cell Arc Goku. For the ones that think those 2 things are correct, I'm sorry but I have to respectfully say that you're wrong. As I mentioned above in both the Gohan and Supreme Kai sections. Gohan didn't train for 7 years and he got weaker. And he wasn't that much stronger than Goku in the Cell Arc, that means that in the Buu Arc he could be very close to his level.

Then we have Supreme Kai, who is weaker than that very same weakened SSJ Gohan. Indirectly that means that Supreme Kai is also weaker than Cell Arc Goku. And then we have Piccolo who is WAY below Supreme Kai. That means that Piccolo is WAY below Cell Arc Goku, and WAY below Supreme Kai. Piccolo can probably be, (and that's being generous), just somewhere between 55% to 60% of Cell Arc Goku and Buu Arc Gohan.

He probably never surpassed a Cell Jr either, since that's pure speculation from various fans around here. He might be equal to them, but not surpassing them, that's not possible, considering all the statements we got from guides, Toriyama and his manga.

Just to note, the power levels I give to Cell Arc Goku and Cell Jrs are 3,000,000,000 and 2,000,000,000 respectively.


Trunks - 36,000,000
SSJ Trunks - 1,800,000,000

Goten - 30,000,000
SSJ Goten - 1,500,000,000

The kids are stated to be way way stronger than Android 18, that's fact since we saw it in the tournament. However, we don't know how strong they are compared to the other characters. However, they are able to impress Gohan and Vegeta. Goten was able to make Gohan struggle, as well as Trunks to Vegeta.

That doesn't mean I will put them close to them. I decided to put both of them nearly half of Gohan and Vegeta's strenght, because even though they managed to impress Gohan and Vegeta, it was still just a sparring of training, not a real fight.

But still, what the Goten and Trunks did was still impressive, and are feats that not even Semi Perfect Cell would do, probably not even ASSJ Vegeta, since he was much weaker than Initial Perfect Cell, who was weaker than Cell Games Vegeta, who was much weaker than Buu Arc Gohan and Vegeta. I personally put Trunks at Cell Games Vegeta.

And even though Goten's power was stated to be not the least bit inferior to Gohan, I take it more as Goten after the training in the Room of Spirit and Time.


Yakon - 100,000,000

This one is easy to place. Goku was having problems with Yakon. And Gohan said that they can beat him if he and Goku fought together without using SSJ. For Goku to at least be able to fight Yakon, Yakon has to be weaker than Frieza. I'd personally put his level at 100,000,000.


Pui Pui - 180,000

We don't know Pui Pui's strenght at all. But I've seen some people comparing him to Saiyan Saga Vegeta, and I said: why not? So I decided to put his level at 180,000, which is Oozaru Vegeta's level. Just to make him not that weak.


Krillin - 1,060,000

Krillin didn't train for 7 years, so he is much weaker than his Cell Arc counterpart (1,200,000). That makes him this number. He is still stronger than Tien though, but just slightly since I don't agree that he is stronger than Tien in Super.


Tien - 950,000

As I said, Tien closed the gap he had with Krillin.


Yamcha - 265,000

Yamcha didn't train at all, so he got weaker too from his previous 300,000 reading.


Chiaotzu - 125,000

Chiaotzu is the weakest of everyone. He at least manages to surpass Captain Ginyu.[/spoiler]


And that's all. The Fusion arc power levels are coming soon. Put your thoughts down below.

A great list is This, but you forgot to include #18, because I want to know her power level and I kinda disagree with trunks being on par with piccolo, piccolo should be a little bit stronger than the kids,I have statement to back this, because when buu absorbed Gotenks, after meeting goku,the kids defuses and he is suddenly wearing piccolo weighting closes,buu absorbtion works when absorbed the strongest, he will gain the cosmetic of the strongest person he absorbed,so IMO piccolo should be around in The 1,950,000,000 or 2,00,000,000 or More. Through your powerscaling is great, keep up the good work

[dragonball0900]

A great list is This, but you forgot to include #18, because I want to know her power level and I kinda disagree with trunks being on par with piccolo, piccolo should be a little bit stronger than the kids,I have statement to back this, because when buu absorbed Gotenks, after meeting goku,the kids defuses and he is suddenly wearing piccolo weighting closes,buu absorbtion works when absorbed the strongest, he will gain the cosmetic of the strongest person he absorbed,so IMO piccolo should be around in The 1,950,000,000 or 2,00,000,000 or More. Through your powerscaling is great, keep up the good work

Oh yeah. Android 18 is 370,000,000. I think I just forgot to include her. Probably because I put the characters that changed their strenght. I can put the power level lists from the Cell arc again later.

The reason why Buu looked like Piccolo was because the kids defused with their base. You should know that when the fusion ends, the kids end up separated in their base forms.

If the kids are weaker than Piccolo though, then I suppose it should be better to lower Goten and Trunks' level instead of increasing Piccolo's one, for the reasons I mentioned in my list.

[ZombieVito]

Hi everyone. Here are my power level lists for the early Buu Saga (from Babidi up to Fat Buu):

[spoiler]Gohan - 65,000,000
SSJ Gohan - 3,250,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan - 6,500,000,000

It's already obviously known that Gohan got weaker 7 years after the Cell Games, since he never trained through that time. His power would drop closer to what Goku had back in the Cell Games, which is 60,000,000. I decided to put Gohan at 65,000,000, being stronger than his father. The reason is because I still think Gohan was still slightly stronger than Cell Arc Goku even after 7 years. Though they could be equal.


Vegeta - 72,000,000
SSJ Vegeta - 3,600,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta - 7,200,000,000
SSJ Majin Vegeta - 4,500,000,000
SSJ2 Majin Vegeta - 9,000,000,000

Out of the 3 people that train (Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo), I think Vegeta is the only one that increased his power more than twice the previous one (38,000,000). That's because he was stated to be stronger than Gohan, as well as his methods of training which were more efficient than Goku's (Vegeta trained with high gravity level). I'd put Vegeta just a bit stronger than Cell Arc Gohan (70,000,00). They can be equal too, but I'd give Vegeta the edge.

Then when he gets his Majin increase, which is a 1.25 multiplier in my version, he gets to the same level Goku has.


Goku - 90,000,000
SSJ Goku - 4,500,000,000
SSJ2 Goku - 9,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku - 36,000,000,000

Goku is simply the strongest out of the saiyans, he manages to surpass the 70% of Frieza. But still, his base is much weaker than Full Power Frieza. If both were to fight, the fight would be way too similar to the one between Kaioken X3 Goku (24,000) vs Vegeta, in which the former beats the later one.

That's obviously without the SSJ transformation. In this state, I put him equal to Perfect Cell, since I don't think anyone of the SSJ's manage to surpass Full Power Perfect Cell yet.

Goku is much stronger than Cell Arc Gohan and Buu Arc Vegeta in base, SSJ and SSJ2. And even so, there's still the SSJ3 transformation, which multiplies his SSJ2 power 4 times.

I made his increase from training in the after life a x1.5 increase, since I think that's a good increase enough for his training.


Majin Buu (Fat Buu) - 15,000,000,000

Majin Buu is much stronger than SSJ2 Majin Vegeta and Goku. But he is much weaker than SSJ3 Goku. I'd say he is much closer to Vegeta than Goku though, since all Buu relied was on his regeneration.


Dabura - 3,400,000,000

This one was very difficult to place at first, given Goku's statement that he had the same power level as Cell.

I'm one of those who believe that Gohan was only a SSJ against Dabura, since that's what is shown in the manga. However, he could be a SSJ2 since there's a guide that states that (even though there's still another guide that says he was a SSJ). I will say he was a SSJ.

I will also say that Dabura is nearly as strong as the Cell that Goku and Gohan fought. Considering Goku said that Dabura was tougher than what he thought, it's possible that Dabura was much stronger than the Cell that Goku and Gohan fought. Just to note, that I have that version of Cell at 3,200,000,000. Cell Arc Gohan was losing to him since he didn't want to fight at the time. Having Dabura at 3,400,000,000, being similar to that version of Cell, as well as being stronger than Buu Arc Gohan, makes sense to me.


Supreme Kai - 2,500,000,000

Kibito - 60,000,000

Supreme Kai is stated in the Daizenshuu, and Piccolo in the manga, that Supreme Kai was way way stronger than Piccolo, to the point where Piccolo even stated that his and Supreme Kai's dimensions were too different.

BUT, he is also stated to be weaker than SSJ Gohan, since it was mentioned by Kibito that Supreme Kai wasn't able to take the sword out from the rock. And we see in the manga that Gohan as a SSJ doing it (although with a lot of effort). Take into consideration, that NO guidebook stated that Gohan was a SSJ2 at all, and why would Gohan became a SSJ2 from the start? He was also drawn as a SSJ2. It's obvious that he was only a SSJ.

That means that Supreme Kai is weaker than SSJ Gohan, but a lot stronger than Piccolo, so I decided to make the gap between Supreme Kai and Piccolo larger than the one with Gohan.

Kibito is much easier to put. He's stated in the Daizenshuu that he and Gohan are able to make a tough fight, as long as Gohan was not a SSJ. At first we don't know who is stronger, but considering that later Kibito was shown not to be able to lift the Z sword, and Base Gohan and Goku did it, that automatically puts Kibito weaker than Gohan, but not that much apart from Gohan, since they have to be able to put an admirable fight.


Weighted Piccolo - 1,400,000,000
Piccolo - 1,800,000,000

This is the most controversial one, not only on youtube or any other place, but also on this forumn.

Piccolo is a guy who is always traning, that's without a doubt. BUT, that doesn't mean his increases in training through the 7 years have to be like 2 or 3 or 5 or 10 or 100 times. And he's not a saiyan. I decided to make his training boost much like Goku's: x1.5. Back in the Cell Arc, I have him at 1,200,000,000. Now he's at 1,800,000,000.

Another controversial topic is that weather or not he surpassed a Cell Jr, or that he got to the level of Cell Arc Goku. For the ones that think those 2 things are correct, I'm sorry but I have to respectfully say that you're wrong. As I mentioned above in both the Gohan and Supreme Kai sections. Gohan didn't train for 7 years and he got weaker. And he wasn't that much stronger than Goku in the Cell Arc, that means that in the Buu Arc he could be very close to his level.

Then we have Supreme Kai, who is weaker than that very same weakened SSJ Gohan. Indirectly that means that Supreme Kai is also weaker than Cell Arc Goku. And then we have Piccolo who is WAY below Supreme Kai. That means that Piccolo is WAY below Cell Arc Goku, and WAY below Supreme Kai. Piccolo can probably be, (and that's being generous), just somewhere between 55% to 60% of Cell Arc Goku and Buu Arc Gohan.

He probably never surpassed a Cell Jr either, since that's pure speculation from various fans around here. He might be equal to them, but not surpassing them, that's not possible, considering all the statements we got from guides, Toriyama and his manga.

Just to note, the power levels I give to Cell Arc Goku and Cell Jrs are 3,000,000,000 and 2,000,000,000 respectively.


Trunks - 36,000,000
SSJ Trunks - 1,800,000,000

Goten - 30,000,000
SSJ Goten - 1,500,000,000

The kids are stated to be way way stronger than Android 18, that's fact since we saw it in the tournament. However, we don't know how strong they are compared to the other characters. However, they are able to impress Gohan and Vegeta. Goten was able to make Gohan struggle, as well as Trunks to Vegeta.

That doesn't mean I will put them close to them. I decided to put both of them nearly half of Gohan and Vegeta's strenght, because even though they managed to impress Gohan and Vegeta, it was still just a sparring of training, not a real fight.

But still, what the Goten and Trunks did was still impressive, and are feats that not even Semi Perfect Cell would do, probably not even ASSJ Vegeta, since he was much weaker than Initial Perfect Cell, who was weaker than Cell Games Vegeta, who was much weaker than Buu Arc Gohan and Vegeta. I personally put Trunks at Cell Games Vegeta.

And even though Goten's power was stated to be not the least bit inferior to Gohan, I take it more as Goten after the training in the Room of Spirit and Time.


Yakon - 100,000,000

This one is easy to place. Goku was having problems with Yakon. And Gohan said that they can beat him if he and Goku fought together without using SSJ. For Goku to at least be able to fight Yakon, Yakon has to be weaker than Frieza. I'd personally put his level at 100,000,000.


Pui Pui - 180,000

We don't know Pui Pui's strenght at all. But I've seen some people comparing him to Saiyan Saga Vegeta, and I said: why not? So I decided to put his level at 180,000, which is Oozaru Vegeta's level. Just to make him not that weak.


Krillin - 1,060,000

Krillin didn't train for 7 years, so he is much weaker than his Cell Arc counterpart (1,200,000). That makes him this number. He is still stronger than Tien though, but just slightly since I don't agree that he is stronger than Tien in Super.


Tien - 950,000

As I said, Tien closed the gap he had with Krillin.


Yamcha - 265,000

Yamcha didn't train at all, so he got weaker too from his previous 300,000 reading.


Chiaotzu - 125,000

Chiaotzu is the weakest of everyone. He at least manages to surpass Captain Ginyu.[/spoiler]


And that's all. The Fusion arc power levels are coming soon. Put your thoughts down below.

Wait a minute. You use Daizenshuu's comment about Kibito giving Gohan a good fight but not the one that says Gohan didn't get weaker in those 7 years or the one that says he fought Dabra as a SSJ2? That's odd.

Those are my only complains in the entire list.

[dragonball0900]

Wait a minute. You use Daizenshuu's comment about Kibito giving Gohan a good fight but not the one that says Gohan didn't get weaker in those 7 years or the one that says he fought Dabra as a SSJ2? That's odd.

Those are my only complains in the entire list.

The reason is because the manga states that Gohan did get weaker in the 7 years of training. There's another Daizenshuu guide that says that Gohan was just a SSJ, as well as the manga artwork.

[ZombieVito]

Wait a minute. You use Daizenshuu's comment about Kibito giving Gohan a good fight but not the one that says Gohan didn't get weaker in those 7 years or the one that says he fought Dabra as a SSJ2? That's odd.

Those are my only complains in the entire list.

The reason is because the manga states that Gohan did get weaker in the 7 years of training. There's another Daizenshuu guide that says that Gohan was just a SSJ, as well as the manga artwork.

There's no Daizenshuu that states that.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Wait a minute. You use Daizenshuu's comment about Kibito giving Gohan a good fight but not the one that says Gohan didn't get weaker in those 7 years or the one that says he fought Dabra as a SSJ2? That's odd.

Those are my only complains in the entire list.

The reason is because the manga states that Gohan did get weaker in the 7 years of training. There's another Daizenshuu guide that says that Gohan was just a SSJ, as well as the manga artwork.

There's no Daizenshuu that states that.

The Daizenshuu 2 states Gohan didn't use SSJ2 after the tournament.

[Noah]

The Daizenshuu 2 states Gohan didn't use SSJ2 after the tournament.

So he didn't used against Dabura?

[TheUltimateNinja]

The Daizenshuu 2 states Gohan didn't use SSJ2 after the tournament.

So he didn't used against Dabura?

Not in the manga. The Daizenshuu 7 statement most likely refers to him using it in the anime, the D2 makes it clear what happened in the manga.

[ZombieVito]

The reason is because the manga states that Gohan did get weaker in the 7 years of training. There's another Daizenshuu guide that says that Gohan was just a SSJ, as well as the manga artwork.

There's no Daizenshuu that states that.

The Daizenshuu 2 states Gohan didn't use SSJ2 after the tournament.

Omitting a + in a image is not a statement. That could easily been an error.

Daizenshuu 7 does have a proper statement and it's pretty cut and dry on what form he used in that.

[dragonball0900]

There's no Daizenshuu that states that.

The Daizenshuu 2 states Gohan didn't use SSJ2 after the tournament.

Omitting a + in a image is not a statement. That could easily been an error.

Daizenshuu 7 does have a proper statement and it's pretty cut and dry on what form he used in that.

To be fair, we don't know if he used SSJ or SSJ2. He could be using any of them. My power level list is just based on what if he was a SSJ. But that doesn't mean that he can't be a SSJ2 either, with Dabura being closer to Super Perfect Cell.

To be honest, the last thing I wanted after posting my power level list is another of those "was Gohan a SSJ or SSJ2 against Dabura" debates.

[DBZ Macky]

Don't know about the Manga but he was definitely a SS2 in the Anime. One of the Daizenshuus does state the Gohan was a SS2, so unless you want to be selective with official information, he should at least be a SS2 in the Anime.
In any case, it doesn't matter at all in the grander scheme of things at all, so I don't really understand why this is such a big debate.

My PL list is made in such a way that it wouldn't matter at all whether Gohan was a regular SS or a SS2. Though I'm more inclined towards him being a SS2, despite the art in the original Manga. Mostly because of Super's Manga kind-of indicating that a regular SS wouldn't be enough to defeat Dabura.

Dabura was meditating in his chamber in an Anime-exclusive scene. So it is possible that his "regular power" is close to SS Gohan while his power after meditating a bit is closer to SS2 Gohan.

Gohan was stated to be a SS2 in one source and was implied to be a regular SS in another. So why not both?

[DanielSSJ]

Don't know about the Manga but he was definitely a SS2 in the Anime. One of the Daizenshuus does state the Gohan was a SS2, so unless you want to be selective with official information, he should at least be a SS2 in the Anime.
In any case, it doesn't matter at all in the grander scheme of things at all, so I don't really understand why this is such a big debate.

My PL list is made in such a way that it wouldn't matter at all whether Gohan was a regular SS or a SS2. Though I'm more inclined towards him being a SS2, despite the art in the original Manga. Mostly because of Super's Manga kind-of indicating that a regular SS wouldn't be enough to defeat Dabura.

Dabura was meditating in his chamber in an Anime-exclusive scene. So it is possible that his "regular power" is close to SS Gohan while his power after meditating a bit is closer to SS2 Gohan.

Gohan was stated to be a SS2 in one source and was implied to be a regular SS in another. So why not both?

The problem here is that we receive conflicting information from the Daizenshuu on this subject. Daizenshuu 2 states that the only time a High School Era Gohan ever went Super Saiyan 2 was in Volume 37, and since the fight between him and Dabra takes place in Volume 38, that means he wasn't a Super Saiyan 2 then. Then we have Daizenshuu 7 which does say that Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 against Dabra. From my (admittedly limited) understanding of the Daizenshuu, Number 2's content is based solely on the manga, whereas Number 7 is all-inclusive, and would therefor include tidbits and changes from the anime.

As for my numbers, it doesn't really matter whether or not Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 against Dabra either.. In the manga, the art indicates that Gohan was a regular ol' Super Saiyan, and while he can kinda hold out against Dabra, he's definitely at a disadvantage. So Dabra is somewhat stronger than a Super Saiyan Gohan.

In the anime, it's a bit more complex. The Dragon Book actually says that Gohan is clearly superior to Dabra in raw power, but that because of his very rusty skills, he ends up at a disadvantage anyways. Based on all that, what form Gohan uses really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, though since I prefer to base my opinions in the manga over all else, I'm more in favor of Gohan just being a normal Super Saiyan at that point.

[Bullza]

Despite what was may or may not have been said I do have Gohan as using Super Saiyan 2 against Dabura.

Reason being is I think Dabura is stronger than Cell. Goku did say that he was as strong as Cell, people assume he's talking about a specific form but surely they'd just mean the Cell as we last saw him. Then he later said he was tougher than he thought.

The other reason is, in the Dragon Ball Super manga, Super Saiyan Future Trunks who unlike Gohan did not slack off on his training and had infact mastered the Z Sword too and could easily be stronger than Buu saga Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta (especially as his SSJ2 equaled Goku's SSJ3) was no match for Dabura.

So when Goku and Vegeta were saying he wasn't much and they could handle him and what not they had to be referring to if they used Super Saiyan 2.

[TheUltimateNinja]

So when Goku and Vegeta were saying he wasn't much and they could handle him and what not they had to be referring to if they used Super Saiyan 2.

That can't be it, Vegeta didn't know Goku had SSJ2 until he used it against Yakon and Goku was surprised when Vegeta revealed SSJ2, they were expecting to be able to beat Dabura in SSJ.