Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don't think Spopovich nor Yamu were anything special. Spopovich was getting beaten by Videl until she tired, and i don't see Videl improving that much aside from learning Ki control. I say even Goku or Yamcha when they first appeared would mop the floor with them.

As for Pocus, Yakon and Dabra, it's a different case. I think every one of them are stronger than Shin based on Babidi's confidence on his minions. He even goes as far to tell Yakon to not kill Shin, implying Shin was at Yakon's mercy there. I think Pocus is equals with Android Arc SSJ Vegeta, while Yakon is somewhere between #17 and #16. At last, Dabra is on pair with the Cell Goku fought. Dabra's stated to be on Cell's league, and considering he was being overhelmed by a SSJ Gohan and is implied to be weaker than SSJ Vegeta, he's certainly not on Full Power Cell's league.

[Noah]

I don't think Spopovich nor Yamu were anything special. Spopovich was getting beaten by Videl until she tired, and i don't see Videl improving that much aside from learning Ki control. I say even Goku or Yamcha when they first appeared would mop the floor with them.

I don't think so, they have over human resistance and can also fire energy blasts, I would say BoDB Goku and Yamcha would be pretty much doomed.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don't think so, they have over human resistance and can also fire energy blasts, I would say BoDB Goku and Yamcha would be pretty much doomed.

Their durability seems to be a separated attribute, considering anyone whose head tuned 180 degrees like that would die independent of strength. As for their ki blasts and fly, it's just Ki control. Raditz was stronger than Goku before he trained with Kaio but Goku had a much, much better Ki control than him.

[LightBing]

So I'm reading the Saiyan Arc now since I'm remaking my power level list(I'l post it here soon hopefully). The following thought crossed my mind, what if Kuririn is already stronger than Tenshinhan?

He has a much better performance than Tenshinhan. Of course Tenshinhan died pretty quickly in that battle, making the discussion much more difficult. Even so, he's better than Tenshinhan head-to-head against Nappa. Another point is how prominent Kuririn is in the arc, this marks the first arc since Tenshinhan's introduction that he's more relevant.

That has to count for something, right? It's not like were predicting the future here, we know Kuririn eventually is going to be stronger; what if it all started not in Namek but sooner? A shift in roles is already present here.

I bet if you asked someone who didn't know Tenshinhan had always been stronger than Kuririn, who was the stronger guy after reading the Saiyan Arc they would say Kuririn.

[Noah]

He has a much better performance than Tenshinhan.

How he was better? He just hit Nappa twice and he was off guard and missed a Kienzan. Tenshinhan at least did some significant damage on him with his last Kikoho.

[LightBing]

He has a much better performance than Tenshinhan.

How he was better? He just hit Nappa twice and he was off guard and missed a Kienzan. Tenshinhan at least did some significant damage on him with his last Kikoho.

He dodged one attack and semi-dodged another from Nappa. Tenshinhan dodged one attack. When Kuririn does it even Vegeta compliments him.
Besides him hitting Nappa more, even if it's when the latter is distracted all added together it's a better performance.

It's not so much that the Kienzan missed, Vegeta explicitly saved Nappa by telling him to dodge. Both attacks have different characteristics, they can't really be compared.

[DanielSSJ]

I don't think it necessarily means anything. Tenshinhan was targeted first and lost his arm early on in the fight, crippling his performance from then on. If Nappa had gone after Kuririn first, I doubt he would've faired any better. Either way, whether or not Kuririn was stronger than Tenshinhan, I doubt the difference between them was all that large. Though, as long as Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha are roughly on par with each other, it doesn't really matter to me where they all fall, though Yamcha should probably be at the bottom of the pack.

Anyways, Kuririn's relevancy in the narrative probably has more to do with how his personality gels with the others and the fact that Piccolo essentially fills the same role as Tenshinhan, but does it better.

[JazzMazz]

I don't think it necessarily means anything. Tenshinhan was targeted first and lost his arm early on in the fight, crippling his performance from then on. If Nappa had gone after Kuririn first, I doubt he would've faired any better. Either way, whether or not Kuririn was stronger than Tenshinhan, I doubt the difference between them was all that large. Though, as long as Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha are roughly on par with each other, it doesn't really matter to me where they all fall, though Yamcha should probably be at the bottom of the pack.

Anyways, Kuririn's relevancy in the narrative probably has more to do with how his personality gels with the others and the fact that Piccolo essentially fills the same role as Tenshinhan, but does it better.

Also probably has to do with the fact Kuririn is Goku's best friend, that probably did a way of cementing his role in the cast.

[apex_pretador]

How strong you have each of Babidi's minions?

Like others said, Babidi's henchmen represent powers of previous villains

- Spopovich: Bear thief level
- Yamu: 21 TB level
>Unknown henchmen ranging from Tao to piccolo daimao level<
Pui Pui: Nappa tier
>Unknown henchmen ranging from dodoria tier to captain ginyu<
Yakon: Stronger than suppressed Freeza but weaker than 100% Freeza
Dabura: Stronger than perfect cell but weaker than Super perfect cell
Buu: Stronger than SS2 but weaker than SS3

[LightBing]

I don't think it necessarily means anything. Tenshinhan was targeted first and lost his arm early on in the fight, crippling his performance from then on. If Nappa had gone after Kuririn first, I doubt he would've faired any better. Either way, whether or not Kuririn was stronger than Tenshinhan, I doubt the difference between them was all that large. Though, as long as Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha are roughly on par with each other, it doesn't really matter to me where they all fall, though Yamcha should probably be at the bottom of the pack.

Anyways, Kuririn's relevancy in the narrative probably has more to do with how his personality gels with the others and the fact that Piccolo essentially fills the same role as Tenshinhan, but does it better.

It means something, even if it's just a clue to them being much closer than before. I'm not saying Tenshinhan is definitely weaker than Kuririn, I still haven't decided myself. It just surprises me nobody ever even thought about it, the idea is reasonable.

Based on the performance against the Saibaimen I will put Yamcha behind the two for quite a bit. Tenshinhan puts his opponent down(not KO) with just a hit while Yamcha actually traded blows and had to rely in the Kamehameha, which should have killed it if Yamcha was at the same level as Tenshinhan.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

So I'm reading the Saiyan Arc now since I'm remaking my power level list(I'l post it here soon hopefully). The following thought crossed my mind, what if Kuririn is already stronger than Tenshinhan?

He has a much better performance than Tenshinhan. Of course Tenshinhan died pretty quickly in that battle, making the discussion much more difficult. Even so, he's better than Tenshinhan head-to-head against Nappa. Another point is how prominent Kuririn is in the arc, this marks the first arc since Tenshinhan's introduction that he's more relevant.

That has to count for something, right? It's not like were predicting the future here, we know Kuririn eventually is going to be stronger; what if it all started not in Namek but sooner? A shift in roles is already present here.

I bet if you asked someone who didn't know Tenshinhan had always been stronger than Kuririn, who was the stronger guy after reading the Saiyan Arc they would say Kuririn.

I don't think this is nimplied. Tenshinhan fought Nappa with one arm, after all. Kuririn only did better because he landed a hit.

Based on the performance against the Saibaimen I will put Yamcha behind the two for quite a bit. Tenshinhan puts his opponent down(not KO) with just a hit while Yamcha actually traded blows and had to rely in the Kamehameha, which should have killed it if Yamcha was at the same level as Tenshinhan.

I don't think it's necessary. Tenshinhan can be pretty above the Saibamen yet not too far from Yamcha:
Tenshinhan: 1,500
Kuririn: 1,400
Yamcha: 1,320
Saibamen: 1,200
Considering Yamcha was confident on taking the other four Saibamen, he's likely a bit above the Saibamens, but still on rivaling range considering his Kamehameha didn't kill him. Likely on the 1,300-1,400 range.

[Olympian]

I don't think it necessarily means anything. Tenshinhan was targeted first and lost his arm early on in the fight, crippling his performance from then on. If Nappa had gone after Kuririn first, I doubt he would've faired any better. Either way, whether or not Kuririn was stronger than Tenshinhan, I doubt the difference between them was all that large. Though, as long as Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha are roughly on par with each other, it doesn't really matter to me where they all fall, though Yamcha should probably be at the bottom of the pack.

Anyways, Kuririn's relevancy in the narrative probably has more to do with how his personality gels with the others and the fact that Piccolo essentially fills the same role as Tenshinhan, but does it better.

It means something, even if it's just a clue to them being much closer than before. I'm not saying Tenshinhan is definitely weaker than Kuririn, I still haven't decided myself. It just surprises me nobody ever even thought about it, the idea is reasonable.

Based on the performance against the Saibaimen I will put Yamcha behind the two for quite a bit. Tenshinhan puts his opponent down(not KO) with just a hit while Yamcha actually traded blows and had to rely in the Kamehameha, which should have killed it if Yamcha was at the same level as Tenshinhan.

I think a point found in the narrative that is hardly measured is that the Saibamen who fought Yamcha more than likely fought harder. Neither Vegeta or Nappa believed any of the people there save Goku or Piccolo could rival Raditz (and that bout started with the Sai easily confident) and were in disbelief that Tenshinhan was actually stronger than that. Vegeta then blows that Saibamen up for basically being humilliated and failing while the rest saw the scene with clear fear in their eyes.

Tenshinhan was stronger than Yamcha but the Saibamen who fought the former desert bandid had to try harder and poured it more in that fight. That explains why the Saibamen commits Sepukku after failing to defeat Yamcha, this time with Nappa being both in disbelief and then angry for the desperate maneuver.

There`s this headcanon that since the Crane school teaches students to mimic techniques, Chiatzu basically picked it up to desperatly save Tenshinhan. The reason behind would be different (in the Saibamen`s case it would be to save face) but the context is strikingy similar since there was no other way Chiatzu could hit Nappa what with the paralysis tech not working (which I personally think was balloney, but okay).

P.S: was it ever made clear in the non translated Manga, if Yamcha actually uses the Kamehameha or a standard energy beam? I know the anime colored it blue but in the Manga the attack is never named, (which is the standard for the Kame wave.

[LightBing]

I think a point found in the narrative that is hardly measured is that the Saibamen who fought Yamcha more than likely fought harder. Neither Vegeta or Nappa believed any of the people there save Goku or Piccolo could rival Raditz (and that bout started with the Sai easily confident) and were in disbelief that Tenshinhan was actually stronger than that. Vegeta then blows that Saibamen up for basically being humilliated and failing while the rest saw the scene with clear fear in their eyes.

Tenshinhan was stronger than Yamcha but the Saibamen who fought the former desert bandid had to try harder and poured it more in that fight. That explains why the Saibamen commits Sepukku after failing to defeat Yamcha, this time with Nappa being both in disbelief and then angry for the desperate maneuver.

There`s this headcanon that since the Crane school teaches students to mimic techniques, Chiatzu basically picked it up to desperatly save Tenshinhan. The reason behind would be different (in the Saibamen`s case it would be to save face) but the context is strikingy similar since there was no other way Chiatzu could hit Nappa what with the paralysis tech not working (which I personally think was balloney, but okay).

P.S: was it ever made clear in the non translated Manga, if Yamcha actually uses the Kamehameha or a standard energy beam? I know the anime colored it blue but in the Manga the attack is never named, (which is the standard for the Kame wave.

Good point. That will make me reduce the gap between Yamcha and the others. The gap will still be pretty decent, the feats are just too far apart still.

The Crane School teaches students to mimic techniques? That's one I never heard. I don't remember anything that make indicate that, there's Tenshinhan using the Kamehameha but that's the standard Dragon Ball trope: "prodigy learns super difficult attack after seeing it only once".

That motion can only mean it's the Kamehameha.

[Olympian]

I don`t think there`s enough to consider it fact other than Tenshinhan instantly copying the Kamehameha after figthing Yamcha but it`s not the first time around I`ve read the headcanon and it may have something to do with how games have approached those two I`m guessing.

The hand gesture (not necessarily motions, we don`t actually see it) speaks Kame but the lack of the iconic shout always left me wondering if Toryama pulled a shortcut for a more standard attack. I don`t think we ever saw anyone else (?) in the manga or anime not do it when using the attack. Even characters who "stole" it like Tenshinhan and Cell did it.

Kind of like this?

[apex_pretador]

Anyone interested in a DB Super power level list? I am planning to do one.

[LightBing]

I don`t think there`s enough to consider it fact other than Tenshinhan instantly copying the Kamehameha after figthing Yamcha but it`s not the first time around I`ve read the headcanon and it may have something to do with how games have approached those two I`m guessing.

The hand gesture (not necessarily motions, we don`t actually see it) speaks Kame but the lack of the iconic shout always left me wondering if Toryama pulled a shortcut for a more standard attack. I don`t think we ever saw anyone else (?) in the manga or anime not do it when using the attack. Even characters who "stole" it like Tenshinhan and Cell did it.

Kind of like this?

Kuririn does it shortly after when fighting Nappa. He doesn't say Kamehameha but like with Yamcha it's looks exactly like the technique. Since the attacks are supposed to be quick it would be awkward to add the shout. I assume this is the reason for the absence.

I'll keep my eyes peeled for more moments like this. Currently I'm assuming that it's the Kamehameha both for Yamcha and Kuririn.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Cell Arc power levels.

Key - SSJ Goku (Namek): 1

Freeza's Revenge
[spoiler]Freeza: .96
~ Post cybernetic enhancements: 1.04
Back on Namek, Freeza was able to fight evenly with Goku before he ran out of stamina. Now he thinks he can beat Goku, but with the help of his father.

King Cold: .67
Was considered useful by Freeza against Goku and was lumped with a supressed Freeza by the Z Fighters.

SSJ Trunks: 1.44
Balantly considered Freeza trash and was confident in taking both him and Cold without much effort.

SSJ Goku: 1.8
Finger tooled Trunks in a sparring match and was stated to be even stronger than the rumours, who already said Goku was the strongest.

SSJ Gohan: 1.35
Thought it was worth a shot to face both 17 and 18 alone until learnig 17 didn't use even half of his power to rip off his arm last time.

Future 17 (40%): 1.08[/spoiler]

The Androids
[spoiler]SSJ Vegeta: 2.7
Stated by Piccolo and Goku himself to have surpassed Goku, though it's by a very small margin.

SSJ Goku: 2.6
~ Sick: 2.2
While Sick Tenshinhan was still astouned by his power, implying it was even bigger than the power he displayed 3 years ago.

SSJ Trunks: 2.5
Tenshinhan said Goku shouldn't be much different from Vegeta or Trunks, implying Vegeta isn't much different from Trunks either.

Piccolo: 2
Was confident on taking foes who can stomp Debut Trunks by himself, and even thought he had grown too strong for the likes of the Androids.

Android 19: 1.28
~ Post absorbtions: 1.6
Vegeta said he wasn't as fearsome as the rumours made out, but didn't say he wasn't fearsome at all.

Android 20: 1.44
~ Post absorbtions: 1.8
While smacking him Piccolo wondered if either the Androids weren't as strong as they expected or if the Z Fighters had grown too strong. Piccolo wouldn't consider the latter at all if #20 was below Trunks.

Cyborg 18: 3.6
Although Vegeta fought about evenly with her, she wasn't going all out and once serious she easily stomped Vegeta and called him trash.

Cyborg 17: 4
Calls himself the strongest in the world before knowing of #16's strength, and a manga cover says #18 was "more suppressed" than him.[/spoiler]

Cell's threat
[spoiler]Piccolo (Merged with God): 3.6
~ Full Power: 4
~ Gekiretsu Kodan: 8
After merging with Kami, he powers up to a level that outstripts the Super Saiyans and rivals the Cyborg twins. However, not even his most powerful blast could even scratch Cell.

Imperfect Cell: 3
~ Post humans: 16
Despite being called an "Absurdely large Ki" by Vegeta, he still considered him a threat. However, after absorbing a huge amount of humans he's strong enough to a point he can tank Piccolo's most powerful blast without a scratch.

Android 16: 16
Stated he was about equals with Cell and fought evenly with him.

Semi Cell: 32
~ Full Power: 44
After absorbing #17, Cell is strong enough to a point he can completely tank a foe who fought evenly with him earlier and casually vaporize him with a blast. At his max power he belives he can defeat Vegeta, but his perfomance is just a replay of #19 vs Vegeta.

SSJ Vegeta: 33.75
~ Grade 2: 67.5
After training on the Rosat, Trunks implies Vegeta could at least manage something against Cell as a regular SSJ. On Grade 2 Vegeta can tank Cell's punch like he tanked #19 and ragdoll him all over the room.

Perfect Cell: 60
~ Silent power up: 200
After absorbing #18, #16 states that although he powered up, Cell is still inferior to Vegeta. Once Cell starts to show his true colors he barely budges from a flying kick from Vegeta and is confident on blocking/deflecting a blast even more powerful than the Garlic Gun.

SSJ Trunks: 32
~ Grade 2: 64
~ Grade 3: 288
Stated by Vegeta to be almost as powerful as him. With the 3rd grade of the SSJ transformation he surpasses Cell by a wild margin, but is too slow to even hit him.

SSJ Goku (50%): 270
Everybody was blown away by half of his power, but Kuririn says Goku only outstripped everyone when he went 100%, so he isn't stronger than Grade 3 Trunks yet. [/spoiler]

The Cell Games
[spoiler]SSJ Goku (Warming up): 200
~ Full Power: 540
~ Post fight: 160
After training in the Rosat, Goku can put up a good fight against Cell, but ultimately cannot win. After wasting all his stamina, he is totally helpless against his Cell Jr.

SSJ Gohan: 900
~ SSJ2: 4,500
~ Final Rage: 5,400
Goku told Cell Gohan was going to be stronger than both, and Cell said Goku's word wasn't a complete buff. Once Gohan's inner power roses and he ascends to SSJ2,
he totally clowns Cell in two hits. During their final beam struggle, he finds the motivation to use all of his power and finally put Cell down for good.

Cell (Warming up): 200
~ Powered up: 600
~ Speed up: 900
~ Full Power: 2,250
~ Power Weighted: 3,750
~ Zenkai: 4,500
Cell is a step or two above Goku during their fight, and against Gohan they seem to be even as both could only do cosmetic damage to each other. Once Gohan turns into a Super Saiyan 2, Cell goes full power and punches Gohan in the face, which only moved Gohan's head, and get badly pummeled even after Bulking himself up like Trunks did. After he tries to kill himself to kill the Z Fighters, he recovers and returns, having powered up like Gohan. However, he still gets defeated by Gohan's bottomless power.

Cell Jrs: 337.5
SSJ Vegeta: 337.5
SSJ Trunks: 320
Piccolo: 300
After another day on the Rosat, Vegeta is confident on beating a Cell who was expected to be a bit above Goku, who the Z Fighters thought the half power he showed at Korin was his max. Trunks is up there by status quo, and Piccolo is up with them because Trunks was surprised when Goku told Piccolo couldn't do jack against Cell. All of them have hard times against a Cell Jr, with Vegeta and Trunks fighting evenly and Piccolo at least being able to defend himself and keep standing.[/spoiler]

[sintzu]

If Freeza's power level was one million in his 2nd form, how much would his 3rd form be ? assuming there's no official numbers.

If Vegeta was able to see Freeza's attacks in his final form (at least the one that almost hit Gohan), what was his power level after being healed by Dende ? Piccolo was amazed by it so we know he was at least stronger than him and 2nd form Freeza but what about his 3rd form ?

[dragonball0900]

If Freeza's power level was one million in his 2nd form, how much would his 3rd form be ? assuming there's no official numbers.

If Vegeta was able to see Freeza's attacks in his final form (at least the one that almost hit Gohan), what was his power level after being healed by Dende ? Piccolo was amazed by it so we know he was at least stronger than him and 2nd form Freeza but what about his 3rd form ?

I have Frieza's second form twice his first form. If he is 530,000, then in Second Form he is 1,060,000 at full power (some people say this is his minimum, but I consider it the maximum so there would be no problems for other power levels). Piccolo would be at 1,300,000 without his weights, since it was said that he could defeat 2nd Form Frieza in this state.

His 3rd Form would be twice his second form. At 2,120,000, which is way higher than Piccolo. Then Vegeta after being healed by Dende, reaches to 2,400,000. I like to have him at 2,400,000 since considering he landed on Namek with 24,000, it would be funny for him to increase his strength 100 times stronger. Frieza at final form is probably around 2,800,000 initally since Vegeta could see his movements, then powers up to 3,000,000 to fight Goku.

It makes sense too, since Vegeta was confident in defeating Final Form Frieza, even after seeing 3rd Form Frieza. You can say it's his pride, but when it's about fighting Frieza, I'm pretty sure his confidence is believable here.

[sintzu]

If Freeza's power level was one million in his 2nd form, how much would his 3rd form be ? assuming there's no official numbers.

If Vegeta was able to see Freeza's attacks in his final form (at least the one that almost hit Gohan), what was his power level after being healed by Dende ? Piccolo was amazed by it so we know he was at least stronger than him and 2nd form Freeza but what about his 3rd form ?

I have Frieza's second form twice his first form. If he is 530,000, then in Second Form he is 1,060,000 at full power (some people say this is his minimum, but I consider it the maximum so there would be no problems for other power levels). Piccolo would be at 1,300,000 without his weights, since it was said that he could defeat 2nd Form Frieza in this state.

His 3rd Form would be twice his second form. At 2,120,000, which is way higher than Piccolo. Then Vegeta after being healed by Dende, reaches to 2,400,000. I like to have him at 2,400,000 since considering he landed on Namek with 24,000, it would be funny for him to increase his strength 100 times stronger. Frieza at final form is probably around 2,800,000 initally since Vegeta could see his movements, then powers up to 3,000,000 to fight Goku.

It makes sense too, since Vegeta was confident in defeating Final Form Frieza, even after seeing 3rd Form Frieza. You can say it's his pride, but when it's about fighting Frieza, I'm pretty sure his confidence is believable here.

Vegeta should've also fought freeza in his 3rd form to justify it and to show how much of a boost he got from krillin and dende.