Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:16 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:What does the Super Exciting Guide say about Gotenks Pre-ROSAT? I know they specify Vegeta but does it say he's stronger than Vegeta and others or just Vegeta?
It's the Daizenshuu 7, not the SEG. Here's the full statement:
History:In order to defeat Majin Buu, who boasted absolute strength, Goku taught Fusion to Goten and Trunks as a last resort, and thus Gotenks was born. After several failures, they finally succeeded in merging together. The two entered the Room of Spirit and Time, and hurriedly trained as Gotenks. As a result, Gotenks leveled up so much that his strength surpassed Vegeta and the others. However, they were taken in by Buu, who had powered up by absorbing the good portion of himself
.

So according to Daizenshuu 7, Gotenks is < Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo...
Bullza wrote:No it was from some guidebook where it says most of Gohan's power loss comes from the top down aka Super Saiyan 2.
It's not exactly a straight up statement, more like an implication. The entry for High School Gohan in Daizenshuu 2's story section says that "Due to either Chi Chi's influence or him neglecting to train, his strength hadn't changed since he was a boy.", but the entry for Super Saiyan 2 Gohan says "Because he couldn't gain power from anger and because he hadn't been training, he doesn't have the same battle power as when he defeated Cell., implying there was no change other than his SSJ2 form.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:19 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:What does the Super Exciting Guide say about Gotenks Pre-ROSAT? I know they specify Vegeta but does it say he's stronger than Vegeta and others or just Vegeta?
It's the Daizenshuu 7, not the SEG. Here's the full statement:
History:In order to defeat Majin Buu, who boasted absolute strength, Goku taught Fusion to Goten and Trunks as a last resort, and thus Gotenks was born. After several failures, they finally succeeded in merging together. The two entered the Room of Spirit and Time, and hurriedly trained as Gotenks. As a result, Gotenks leveled up so much that his strength surpassed Vegeta and the others. However, they were taken in by Buu, who had powered up by absorbing the good portion of himself
.

So according to Daizenshuu 7, Gotenks is < Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo...
Bullza wrote:No it was from some guidebook where it says most of Gohan's power loss comes from the top down aka Super Saiyan 2.
It's not exactly a straight up statement, more like an implication. The entry for High School Gohan in Daizenshuu 2's story section says that "Due to either Chi Chi's influence or him neglecting to train, his strength hadn't changed since he was a boy.", but the entry for Super Saiyan 2 Gohan says "Because he couldn't gain power from anger and because he hadn't been training, he doesn't have the same battle power as when he defeated Cell., implying there was no change other than his SSJ2 form.
Base Gotenks surpassing SS2 Vegeta isn't impossible to wiggle around, though that would grossly balloon the battle powers of the later Boo arc people.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:00 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:Plus, logically Vegeta should never be able to unlock SSJ without Trunks' intervenction: At time it was believed that there could only be one Super Saiyan. It wasn't until Trunks came in that Vegeta noticed he could also be a Super Saiyan and trained to be one.
While I do agree with that, believing that it indeed makes sense. It isn't confirmed anywhere, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong: Goku was killed on the same year the androids showed up, Trunks was already born, so even though there was no one to warn them about the upcoming threat, Vegeta would still have motivations to train to surpass Goku anyway. It could be more harsh for him to unlock the SSJ, but I don't see how he couldn't do it on this timeline.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:09 pm

Noah wrote:
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:Plus, logically Vegeta should never be able to unlock SSJ without Trunks' intervenction: At time it was believed that there could only be one Super Saiyan. It wasn't until Trunks came in that Vegeta noticed he could also be a Super Saiyan and trained to be one.
While I do agree with that, believing that it indeed makes sense. It isn't confirmed anywhere, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong: Goku was killed on the same year the androids showed up, Trunks was already born, so even though there was no one to warn them about the upcoming threat, Vegeta would still have motivations to train to surpass Goku anyway. It could be more harsh for him to unlock the SSJ, but I don't see how he couldn't do it on this timeline.
Future Goku dies around November of Age 766, six months before the Androids show up. I don't think it matters though, as you said, Vegeta has enough motivation to get Super Saiyan without a threat: he wants to kill Goku and he feels inadequate about doing it.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:24 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
Noah wrote:While I do agree with that, believing that it indeed makes sense. It isn't confirmed anywhere, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong: Goku was killed on the same year the androids showed up, Trunks was already born, so even though there was no one to warn them about the upcoming threat, Vegeta would still have motivations to train to surpass Goku anyway. It could be more harsh for him to unlock the SSJ, but I don't see how he couldn't do it on this timeline.
Future Goku dies around November of Age 766, six months before the Androids show up. I don't think it matters though, as you said, Vegeta has enough motivation to get Super Saiyan without a threat: he wants to kill Goku and he feels inadequate about doing it.
Exactly. The legends say that there is only one Super Saiyan each 1,000 years. No matter how much Vegeta trained, with such mentality he would be subconsciouly holding himself back of achieving the transformation.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:34 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
Noah wrote:While I do agree with that, believing that it indeed makes sense. It isn't confirmed anywhere, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong: Goku was killed on the same year the androids showed up, Trunks was already born, so even though there was no one to warn them about the upcoming threat, Vegeta would still have motivations to train to surpass Goku anyway. It could be more harsh for him to unlock the SSJ, but I don't see how he couldn't do it on this timeline.
Future Goku dies around November of Age 766, six months before the Androids show up. I don't think it matters though, as you said, Vegeta has enough motivation to get Super Saiyan without a threat: he wants to kill Goku and he feels inadequate about doing it.
Exactly. The legends say that there is only one Super Saiyan each 1,000 years. No matter how much Vegeta trained, with such mentality he would be subconsciouly holding himself back of achieving the transformation.
Why would the motivation that helps him in one time line hold him back in another?
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:47 pm

A small note on the Cell Games: after Cell comes back from the dead and is seemingly on Gohan's level now, is it possible that the Gohan he wounded wasn't at full strength? By which I mean, only on par with SS2 Gohan from 7 years later due to lacking rage? I ask this because I just noticed that Gohan powered down before Cell came back, lost his rage, and powered back up, this time with a smug smile and no signs of anger; yet in that state still seemed to think he could take Cell if not for that cheap shot. It's possible he only released his "rage" SS2 in the final beam clash, in which he quickly overpowered Cell.

It would explain, among other things, why Cell's level of power is treated lightly in the early Buu arc and why Daizenshuu 7 flat-out states that Dabra and Cell have the same battle power. Something like:

SS2 Goku [Buu]: 7,500
SS2 Gohan [enraged]: 7,000
SS2 Gohan: 5,600
Dabra/Cell: 5,000
SS1 Gohan: 2,800
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RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:02 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:A small note on the Cell Games: after Cell comes back from the dead and is seemingly on Gohan's level now, is it possible that the Gohan he wounded wasn't at full strength? By which I mean, only on par with SS2 Gohan from 7 years later due to lacking rage? I ask this because I just noticed that Gohan powered down before Cell came back, lost his rage, and powered back up, this time with a smug smile and no signs of anger; yet in that state still seemed to think he could take Cell if not for that cheap shot. It's possible he only released his "rage" SS2 in the final beam clash, in which he quickly overpowered Cell.

It would explain, among other things, why Cell's level of power is treated lightly in the early Buu arc and why Daizenshuu 7 flat-out states that Dabra and Cell have the same battle power. Something like:

SS2 Goku [Buu]: 7,500
SS2 Gohan [enraged]: 7,000
SS2 Gohan: 5,600
Dabra/Cell: 5,000
SS1 Gohan: 2,800
I don't think he had a rage boost until the end of the beam struggle. His rage boosts are like adrenaline rushs, being quick bursts that are gone as soon as the struggle is over. Gohan never struggled against Cell, calmy and effortlessy beating his ass.

But if we substitute "Rage boost" by "Shouki loss", as his father dying because of his arrogance would've thrown him off balance, then i agree. Though the Gohan vs Dabra fight portrayed Gohan being considerably stronger, so i don't think they were close.

Btw, is the Cell you show in your numbers FP Cell or SPC?
ekrolo2 wrote:Why would the motivation that helps him in one time line hold him back in another?
Because said motivation would be lacking in the Future Timeline. Without Trunks he'd still believe Goku is the Super Saiyan.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:09 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Why would the motivation that helps him in one time line hold him back in another?
Because said motivation would be lacking in the Future Timeline. Without Trunks he'd still believe Goku is the Super Saiyan.
Vegeta was gonna try and take Goku down regardless of Future Trunks existing to confirm multiple Super Saiyan's can happen:
Image
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:27 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:A small note on the Cell Games: after Cell comes back from the dead and is seemingly on Gohan's level now, is it possible that the Gohan he wounded wasn't at full strength? By which I mean, only on par with SS2 Gohan from 7 years later due to lacking rage? I ask this because I just noticed that Gohan powered down before Cell came back, lost his rage, and powered back up, this time with a smug smile and no signs of anger; yet in that state still seemed to think he could take Cell if not for that cheap shot. It's possible he only released his "rage" SS2 in the final beam clash, in which he quickly overpowered Cell.

It would explain, among other things, why Cell's level of power is treated lightly in the early Buu arc and why Daizenshuu 7 flat-out states that Dabra and Cell have the same battle power. Something like:

SS2 Goku [Buu]: 7,500
SS2 Gohan [enraged]: 7,000
SS2 Gohan: 5,600
Dabra/Cell: 5,000
SS1 Gohan: 2,800
I don't think he had a rage boost until the end of the beam struggle. His rage boosts are like adrenaline rushs, being quick bursts that are gone as soon as the struggle is over. Gohan never struggled against Cell, calmy and effortlessy beating his ass.

But if we substitute "Rage boost" by "Shouki loss", as his father dying because of his arrogance would've thrown him off balance, then i agree. Though the Gohan vs Dabra fight portrayed Gohan being considerably stronger, so i don't think they were close.

Btw, is the Cell you show in your numbers FP Cell or SPC?
"Super" Perfect. I was thinking something like:

Perfect Cell [vs Goku]: 2,500
Perfect Cell [FP]: 3,750
Perfect Cell [power-weighted]: 5,000*
Perfect Cell ['Super']: 5,000

SS1 Gohan: 2,800
SS2 Gohan: 5,600
SS2 Gohan [final burst]: 7,000

To duplicate the Super Saiyan forms (SS/Grade II/Grade III/SS2). I disagree that Gohan was that much stronger than Dabra, since even Goku said he was losing, but he should be slightly to moderately stronger going by the sword struggle. That fight, combined with Daizenshuu 7 and Chozenshuu 4 both outright saying that Dabra's battle power is equal to Cell's, are the main things that make me suspect that Cell is not that strong. Under this theory, Gohan was at 5,600 or the equivalent while beating up Perfect Cell and getting wounded by Super Perfect Cell, and only at 7,000 during the final beam struggle.

*In offensive power, not speed or durability.
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RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:26 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Vegeta was gonna try and take Goku down regardless of Future Trunks existing to confirm multiple Super Saiyan's can happen:
Image
Makes sense. Through training he'd eventually hit his limits and become a Super Saiyan like it happened in the present:
Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P11.1-5
Kuririn: “Th-that’s impossible…! Wh-why can he become a Super Saiyan…?! Don’t you have to have a tranquil heart to become one…!?”
Vegeta: “I was tranquil…Tranquil and pure…Pure evil, that is…I wished to get strong just by training earnestly…And so I went through stupendous training over and over again…Eventually, I realized my limits…Through my anger towards myself, I suddenly awakened…into a Super Saiyan!”

There is quite a period of time between Freeza's death and Goku's death, after all.

I think this would give us a chain of:
SSJ Trunks (Debut) >= SSJ Gohan (1 arm) > SSJ Vegeta > SSJ Goku (Namek). <50% 17 might be in the middle between Gohan and Vegeta, and so would pre arm amputation Gohan.

Though i'm still doubtful about him being a Super Saiyan. Toyotaro did draw him in Base against the twins in the special chapter he made.
RandomGuy96 wrote:"Super" Perfect. I was thinking something like:

Perfect Cell [vs Goku]: 2,500
Perfect Cell [FP]: 3,750
Perfect Cell [power-weighted]: 5,000*
Perfect Cell ['Super']: 5,000

SS1 Gohan: 2,800
SS2 Gohan: 5,600
SS2 Gohan [final burst]: 7,000

To duplicate the Super Saiyan forms (SS/Grade II/Grade III/SS2). I disagree that Gohan was that much stronger than Dabra, since even Goku said he was losing, but he should be slightly to moderately stronger going by the sword struggle. That fight, combined with Daizenshuu 7 and Chozenshuu 4 both outright saying that Dabra's battle power is equal to Cell's, are the main things that make me suspect that Cell is not that strong. Under this theory, Gohan was at 5,600 or the equivalent while beating up Perfect Cell and getting wounded by Super Perfect Cell, and only at 7,000 during the final beam struggle.
I doubt Dabra would be on pair with post Zenkai Cell. That Cell wrecked Gohan's arm with a blast, yet a even weaker Gohan tanked Dabra's blast. Dabra being on pair with FP Pre Zenkai Cell makes the most sense, that's the only Cell Gohan could tank.

I dunno about how my numbers would look like, honestly. I've been struggling for a while with SEG Multipliers. Even weakened, SSJ2 Gohan is still considerably above Dabra/Cell, who can take out 3 FPSSJs at once. I can never fit this on a 2x gap, no matter how much i ignore gaps.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:28 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: I doubt Dabra would be on pair with post Zenkai Cell. That Cell wrecked Gohan's arm with a blast, yet a even weaker Gohan tanked Dabra's blast. Dabra being on pair with FP Pre Zenkai Cell makes the most sense, that's the only Cell Gohan could tank.

I dunno about how my numbers would look like, honestly. I've been struggling for a while with SEG Multipliers. Even weakened, SSJ2 Gohan is still considerably above Dabra/Cell, who can take out 3 FPSSJs at once. I can never fit this on a 2x gap, no matter how much i ignore gaps.
He didn't 'tank' anything. He was hurt by the blast and Buu's meter went up a tick. He was just in a uniquely bad position in regards to Cell's blast. Daizenshuu 7 also refers to Gohan and Dabra as being "fairly even" in their fight, so Gohan's edge should be slight.

Gohan was only "weakened" in the sense that he had less energy, not power, so he gassed out after one Kamehameha. Having half a tank doesn't make your car slower, just means you run out quicker.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:33 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:He didn't 'tank' anything. He was hurt by the blast and Buu's meter went up a tick. He was just in a uniquely bad position in regards to Cell's blast. Daizenshuu 7 also refers to Gohan and Dabra as being "fairly even" in their fight, so Gohan's edge should be slight.

Gohan was only "weakened" in the sense that he had less energy, not power, so he gassed out after one Kamehameha. Having half a tank doesn't make your car slower, just means you run out quicker.
A pinch would also hurt despite giving you no real damage. The fact Gohan emerged unharmed and Babidi was frustated with how little damage Dabra dealt shows how little of a threat the blast was.

Gohan wasn't in the best position against Dabra's blast either.

Even fight =/= even powers. Gohan was overwhelming him on hand to hand combat and Dabra had to appeal to his magic to even the fight.

Nope. Vegeta instantly concluded Gohan was weaker just by sensing:
Vegeta: “…Hmph…That bastard, he was far, far better when he killed Cell. It’s because he slacked off in his training during peacetime…”

He later parrots what he said when Gohan is fighting Cell:
Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…”
And Daizenshuu 2 also says Super Saiyan 2 Gohan got weaker due to both lack of
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:39 am

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:He didn't 'tank' anything. He was hurt by the blast and Buu's meter went up a tick. He was just in a uniquely bad position in regards to Cell's blast. Daizenshuu 7 also refers to Gohan and Dabra as being "fairly even" in their fight, so Gohan's edge should be slight.

Gohan was only "weakened" in the sense that he had less energy, not power, so he gassed out after one Kamehameha. Having half a tank doesn't make your car slower, just means you run out quicker.
A pinch would also hurt despite giving you no real damage. The fact Gohan emerged unharmed and Babidi was frustated with how little damage Dabra dealt shows how little of a threat the blast was.
Gohan wasn't in the best position against Dabra's blast either.
It was literally one attack. Gohan's punch didn't do any (visible) damage to Dabra either, I don't know why you're harping on this so much.
Even fight =/= even powers.
It does mean "reasonably close powers."
Nope. Vegeta instantly concluded Gohan was weaker just by sensing:
I was talking about Gohan when he was fighting Cell and got his arm injured.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:31 am

Interesting little line from the anime while Trunks is fighting Freeza:
Image
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Kaboom » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:39 am

Trunks being stronger than Goku, at least from when he was last seen in action on Namek? I kind of assumed that was a given.
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Kaiza_Toshiyuki
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:42 am

If anyone has an estimated Base Goku during the Tournament of power Power level they would like to share, that would be very beneficial for my calculations. If you do, PM me.
Trunks being stronger than Goku, at least from when he was last seen in action on Namek? I kind of assumed that was a given.
Yes, especially since mecha frieza believed he was stronger than ssj goku now.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by SSJ Vegetto » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:05 pm

Can someone share Dragonball Z Movie Villans Power Levels? I want see your opinion.
asdf

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:50 pm

Kaboom wrote:Trunks being stronger than Goku, at least from when he was last seen in action on Namek? I kind of assumed that was a given.
It's more the "maybe" that draws my attention.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Kaboom » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:14 pm

SSJ Vegetto wrote:Can someone share Dragonball Z Movie Villans Power Levels? I want see your opinion.
I have an entire 'Movies and Specials' list, and keep a link to it right in my signature. That's the one I try most to make fun to read, but most of the numbers are actually halfway-serious placements.
RandomGuy96 wrote:
Kaboom wrote:Trunks being stronger than Goku, at least from when he was last seen in action on Namek? I kind of assumed that was a given.
It's more the "maybe" that draws my attention.
Oh, I see. Well, that sort of roundaboutism is pretty common, and sometimes just a more subtle way of saying something is actually the case.
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