Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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emperior
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Sun May 14, 2017 4:47 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
emperior wrote:Multipliers
Oozaru - 10x
Super Saiyan (SSJ) - 50x
Super Saiyan 2 (SSJ2) - 100x
Super Saiyan 3 (SSJ3) - 400x
Super Saiyan God (SSG) - 40,000x
Isn't it implied Goku's ten times stronger than he was against Hit when they fight again?
It was clear Goku got stronger, but 10 times stronger would be way too much, and it's not like Hit or someone else ever commented Goku had gotten 10 times stronger since then. I have him higher than his tournament KKx2 self, which I believe makes the most sense, and Goku countered Hit's time-skip because he had already figured out how to counter it during the tournament.
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ekrolo2
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun May 14, 2017 4:57 pm

emperior wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
emperior wrote:Multipliers
Oozaru - 10x
Super Saiyan (SSJ) - 50x
Super Saiyan 2 (SSJ2) - 100x
Super Saiyan 3 (SSJ3) - 400x
Super Saiyan God (SSG) - 40,000x
Isn't it implied Goku's ten times stronger than he was against Hit when they fight again?
It was clear Goku got stronger, but 10 times stronger would be way too much, and it's not like Hit or someone else ever commented Goku had gotten 10 times stronger since then. I have him higher than his tournament KKx2 self, which I believe makes the most sense, and Goku countered Hit's time-skip because he had already figured out how to counter it during the tournament.
Doesn't Hit improve his Time Skip further still though? To the point he dodges Goku's Kamehameha with Blue KKX10? That should imply quite a substantial increase if Hit's Time Skip doesn't work even on basic Blue Goku anymore.
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VegetaSSJBlue
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by VegetaSSJBlue » Sun May 14, 2017 5:16 pm

Dragon Ball Power Levels


Dragon Ball Minus


[spoiler]Vegeta – 10,250
King Vegeta – 10,000
Bardock– 2,000
Gine – 1,000
Raditz – 500
Son Goku – 10

Jaco – 1,000

Freeza – 530,000[/spoiler]


Dragon Ball Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku – 30
Oozaru – 300

Muten Roshi – 64
Gyuumao– 55
Yamcha – 25
Kuririn – 20
Chi Chi – 15[/spoiler]


21st Tenkaichi Budokai Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku – 60
Oozaru – 600

Muten Roshi – 64
Nam– 54
Kuririn – 45
Giran– 40
Yamcha – 30
Ran Fan – 28
Bacterian – 26
Oorin Temple Upperclassman – 24[/spoiler]


Red Ribbon Army Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku – 65
After Karin’s training – 95

Karin– 125
Arale Norimaki – 66
Bora– 56
Kuririn – 45

Ninja Murasaki– 35
Assistant Black – 40
Sergeant Metallic– 46
Pirate Robot – 48
General Blue – 50
Buyon – 60
Android 8– 70
Tao Pai Pai – 80[/spoiler]


Uranai Baba’s Tournament Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku – 95
Kuririn – 45
Yamcha– 30

Dracula Man – 20
Invisible Man– 25
Mummy Man – 60
Akkuman – 75
Grandpa Gohan – 90[/spoiler]



22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku – 170
Tenshinhan– 165
Muten Roshi – 150
Tsuru– 140
Kuririn – 124
Yamcha – 120
Chiaotzu– 110
King Chapa – 100
Panput – 40
Wolf Man – 30[/spoiler]


Piccolo Daimao Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku – 170
After drinking Ultra Divine Water – 240

Tenshinhan– 165
Yajirobe– 160
Muten Roshi – 150
Kuririn – 124
Yamcha – 120

Cymbal – 120
Tambourine – 150
Drum– 180

Piccolo Daimao– 200
Youth restored – 235[/spoiler]



23rd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku – 240
Without weighted clothes – 405

Piccolo – 400
Kami of Earth – 300
Mr. Popo – 265
Tenshinhan– 245
Kuririn – 205
Yamcha – 175
Tao Pai Pai [Cyborg] – 170
Yajirobe – 160
Chaozu – 145
King Chapa – 120
Chi Chi– 100[/spoiler]


Raditz Arc


[spoiler]Son Gohan – 1
Enraged – 1,307

Son Goku– 334
Without weighted clothes – 416

Piccolo – 322
Without weighted clothes – 408

Tenshinhan – 250
Kuririn – 206
Yamcha – 177
Yajirobe – 160
Chaozu – 150
Muten Roshi – 139

Kaio of the North – 3,000
Enma Daio – 2,000
Kami of Earth – 300
Mr. Popo – 265
Karin– 125

Raditz – 1,200
Oozaru – 12,000[/spoiler]


Saiyan Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku – 8,250
Kaio-Ken x2 – 16,500
Kaio-Ken x3 – 24,750
Kaio-Ken x4 – 33,000

Son Gohan – 1,000
Enraged – 2,800
Oozaru – 10,000

Piccolo – 2,000
Without weighted clothes – 2,500

Tenshinhan – 1,875
Kuririn – 1,500
Yamcha – 1,250
Chaozu – 1,000
Yajirobe – 975

Saibaimen – 1,200

Nappa – 7,950
Oozaru – 79,500

Vegeta – 18,000
Oozaru – 180,000[/spoiler]


Namek Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku – 90,000
Kaio-Ken x2 – 180,000
Kaio-Ken x10 – 900,000

Vegeta – 24,000
Post-recovery – 29,500
Post-recovery 2 – 50,000

Son Gohan – 1,500
Power Unlocked – 12,500
Post-recovery – 25,000

Kuririn – 1,500
Power Unlocked – 12,500

Dende – 200
Power Unlocked – 1,000

Old Namekians – 1,500
Young Namekians – 3,000
Nail – 42,000

Freeza Soldiers – 1,000
Kwi – 18,000
Dodoria – 20,000

Zarbon – 22,000
Transformed – 28,000

Gurd – 1,000
Recoome – 40,000
Butta – 40,000
Jheese – 40,000
Captain Ginyu – 120,000
Freeza – 530,000[/spoiler]


Freeza Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku – 2,000,000
Kaio-Ken x5 – 2,500,000
Kaio-Ken x10 – 3,000,000
Kaio-Ken x20 – 4,000,000
Super Saiyan – 10,000,000

Vegeta – 500,000
Post-recovery – 2,000,000

Son Gohan – 100,000
Enraged – 750,000
Post-recovery – 200,000
Enraged – 1,500,000

Piccolo – 100,000
Without weighted clothes – 125,000
Merged with Nail – 1,000,000
Without weighted clothes – 1,250,000

Kuririn – 12,500

Freeza – 530,000
Second Form – 795,000
Power Up – 954,000
Full Power – 1,060,000
Third Form – 1,590,000
True Form – 2,120,000
33% Power – 2,650,000
50% Power – 3,975,000
70% Power – 5,565,000
100% Power – 7,950,000[/spoiler]


Mecha Freeza Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku – 2,000,000
Super Saiyan – 10,000,000

Trunks – 2,000,000
Super Saiyan – 10,000,000

Piccolo – 2,000,000
Without weighted clothes – 2,500,000

Vegeta – 2,000,000
Son Gohan – 200,000
Tenshinhan – 50,000
Kuririn – 12,500
Yamcha – 5,000
Chaozu – 2,500

Freeza Soldiers – 1,000
King Cold – 5,000,000

Freeza – 4,872,500
Unseen Full Power – 9,745,000[/spoiler]


Future Arc I


[spoiler]Future Gohan – 2,000,000
Super Saiyan – 10,000,000

Kid Trunks – 400,000
Super Saiyan – 2,000,000

Future Android 18 – 18,000,000
Future Android 17 – 20,000,000[/spoiler]


Artificial Human Arc


[spoiler]Vegeta – 2,500,000
Super Saiyan – 12,500,000

Son Goku – 2,400,000
Super Saiyan – 12,000,000

Trunks – 2,000,000
Super Saiyan – 10,000,000

Piccolo – 8,000,000
Without weighted clothes – 10,000,000

Gohan – 2,000,000
Tenshinhan – 50,000
Kuririn – 12,500
Yamcha – 5,000
Chaozu – 2,500

Android 19 – 3,750,000
Post-absorption – 7,500,000

Android 20 – 4,000,000
Post-absorption – 8,000,000

Android 18 – 18,000,000
Android 17 – 20,000,000
Android 16 – 24,000,000

Cell – 13,750,000[/spoiler]


Cell Arc


[spoiler]Vegeta – 6,000,000
Super Saiyan – 30,000,000
Super Saiyan Grade 2 – 37,500,000
Super Saiyan Grade 3 – 50,000,000

Trunks – 5,760,000
Super Saiyan – 28,800,000
Super Saiyan Grade 2 – 36,000,000
Super Saiyan Grade 3 – 48,000,000

Piccolo – 16,000,000
Without weighted clothes – 20,000,000

Android 18 – 18,000,000
Android 17 – 20,000,000
Android 16 – 24,000,000

Cell – 24,000,000
Second Form – 30,000,000
Full Power – 33,000,000
Perfect Form – 36,000,000
Power Up – 45,000,000
Bulked Up – 54,000,000[/spoiler]


Cell Games Arc


[spoiler]Son Gohan – 24,000,000
Super Saiyan – 120,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 240,000,000

Son Goku – 20,000,000
Super Saiyan – 100,000,000

Vegeta – 15,000,000
Super Saiyan – 75,000,000

Trunks – 15,000,000
Super Saiyan – 75,000,000

Piccolo – 50,000,000
Without weighted clothes – 62,500,000

Cell Juniors – 75,000,000

Perfect Cell – 105,000,000
Full Speed – 120,000,000
Full Power – 150,000,000
Bulked Up – 187,500,000
"Super Perfect" – 200,000,000[/spoiler]


Future Arc II


[spoiler]Trunks – 15,000,000
Super Saiyan – 75,000,000
3 Years Later – 18,000,000
Super Saiyan – 90,000,000

Future Android 18 – 18,000,000
Future Android 17 – 20,000,000
Cell – 24,000,000[/spoiler]


Buu Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku – 25,000,000
Super Saiyan – 125,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 250,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 500,000,000

Vegeta – 24,000,000
Super Saiyan – 120,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 240,000,000
Majin Boost – 25,000,000
Super Saiyan – 125,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 250,000,000

Son Gohan – 20,000,000
Super Saiyan – 100,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 200,000,000
Post Z-Sword – 30,000,000
Super Saiyan – 150,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 300,000,000
Potential unleashed – 850,000,000

Trunks – 18,750,000
Super Saiyan – 93,750,000
Post-RoSaT – 25,000,000
Super Saiyan – 100,000,000

Son Goten – 18,000,000
Super Saiyan – 90,000,000
Post-RoSaT – 20,000,000
Super Saiyan – 100,000,000

Gotenks – 90,000,000
Super Saiyan – 450,000,000
Post-RoSaT – 100,000,000
Super Saiyan – 500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 600,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 750,000,000

Vegetto – 500,000,000
Super Saiyan – 2,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 5,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 10,000,000,000

Piccolo – 60,000,000
Without weighted clothes – 75,000,000

Android 18 – 18,000,000
Tenshinhan – 50,000
Kuririn – 10,000
Yamcha – 4,000
Chaozu – 2,500

Kibito – 10,000,000
East Kaioshin - 100,000,000
West Kaioshin - 120,000,000
North Kaioshin - 125,000,000
Dai Kaioshin - 200,000,000
South Kaioshin - 250,000,000
Kibitoshin - 300,000,000

Pui Pui– 20,000
Yakon – 33,333,333
Dabra – 212,500,000

Majin Boo – 200,000,000
Power Up – 300,000,000
Power Up – 450,000,000
Full Power – 675,000,000

Evil Boo – 375,000,000
Good Boo – 300,000,000

Super Boo – 675,000,000
+ Gotenks & Piccolo – 1,500,000,000
+ Piccolo, Son Goten & Trunks – 950,000,000
+ Son Gohan, Piccolo, Son Goten & Trunks – 1,800,000,000
+ Piccolo – 750,000,000

Buff Boo – 750,000,000
Pure Boo – 500,000,000[/spoiler]


Battle of Gods Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku – 30,000,000
Super Saiyan – 150,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 300,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 600,000,000
Super Saiyan [With Vegeta, Son Gohan, Trunks and Son Goten’s energy] – 1,500,000,000
Super Saiyan God – 12,000,000,000
Base w/ God Ki – 12,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 12,000,000,000

Vegeta – 30,000,000
Super Saiyan – 150,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 300,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 [Enraged] – 1,200,000,000

Son Gohan – 30,000,000
Super Saiyan – 150,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 300,000,000
Ultimate – 850,000,000

Gotenks – 100,000,000
Super Saiyan – 500,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 750,000,000

Mister Boo– 300,000,000

Piccolo – 72,000,000
Without weighted clothes – 90,000,000

Android 18 – 18,000,000
Tenshinhan – 50,000

Beerus – 1,000,000,000
10% – 1,250,000,000
100% – 12,500,000,000
True 100% – ??[/spoiler]


Resurrection F Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku – 15,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 75,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 150,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 300,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue – 750,000,000,000

Vegeta – 15,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 75,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 150,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue – 750,000,000,000

Gotenks – 100,000,000
Super Saiyan – 500,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 750,000,000

Son Gohan – 30,000,000
Super Saiyan – 150,000,000

Piccolo – 80,000,000
Without weighted clothes – 100,000,000

Tenshinhan – 50,000
Kuririn – 10,000
Muten Roshi– 5,000
Jaco – 1,500

Freeza Soldiers – 1,000
Sorbet – 1,250
Shisami – 25,000

Tagoma – 100,000,000
Ginyu – 125,000,000

Freeza – 1,000,000,000
True Form – 15,000,000,000
Golden Form – 900,000,000,000[/spoiler]


Champa Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku – 20,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 100,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 200,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 400,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue – 1,000,000,000,000
Kaioken x10 – 10,000,000,000,000

Vegeta – 20,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 100,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 200,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue – 1,000,000,000,000

Mister Boo– 30,000,000,000

Piccolo – 20,000,000,000
Without weighted clothes – 25,000,000,000

Son Gohan – 20,000,000,000

Botamo– 5,000,000,000

Frost – 10,000,000,000
Assault Form – 20,000,000,000
True Form – 50,000,000,000

Auta Magetta– 75,000,000,000

Cabba – 20,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 100,000,000,000

Hit– 10,000,000,000,000[/spoiler]


Monaka Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku – 25,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 125,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 250,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue – 1,250,000,000,000

Vegeta – 25,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 125,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 250,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue – 1,250,000,000,000

Piccolo – 25,000,000,000
Without weighted clothes – 31,250,000,000

Son Gohan – 25,000,000,000

Gotenks – 250,000,000
Super Saiyan – 500,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 750,000,000[/spoiler]


Future Trunks Arc


[spoiler]Future Trunks– 30,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 150,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Grade 3 – 250,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 300,000,000,000
Post Training – 125,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 1,250,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rage – 5,000,000,000,000
Spirit Sword – 250,000,000,000,000

Son Goku – 30,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 150,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 300,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 600,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue – 1,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue [Enraged] – 3,750,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue [Zenkai] – 10,000,000,000,000
Kaioken x2 – 20,000,000,000,000

Vegeta – 30,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 150,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 300,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue – 1,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue [Post Rosat] – 10,000,000,000,000

Vegetto – 10,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 50,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 100,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 200,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue – 500,000,000,000,000

Piccolo – 30,000,000,000
Without weighted clothes – 37,500,000,000

Son Gohan – 30,000,000,000

Zamasu – 200,000,000,000
Future – 1,000,000,000,000

Black– 1,250,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rose – 2,500,000,000,000
Power Up – 5,000,000,000,000
Power Up – 10,000,000,000,000

Merged Zamasu– 15,000,000,000,000
Full Power – 450,000,000,000,000
Giant Form – 150,000,000,000,000[/spoiler]


Hit Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku– 250,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,250,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 2,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 5,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue – 12,500,000,000,000

Vegeta – 250,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,250,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 2,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue – 12,500,000,000,000

Piccolo – 250,000,000,000
Without weighted clothes – 312,500,000,000

Son Gohan – 250,000,000,000

Hit– 12,500,000,000,000[/spoiler]


Zen Exhibition Match Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku– 300,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 3,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 6,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue – 15,000,000,000,000
Kaioken x2 – 30,000,000,000,000

Mister Boo– 3,000,000,000,000

Gohan – 300,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,500,000,000,000

Lavenda– 300,000,000,000

Basil– 250,000,000,000
Power Up – 2,500,000,000,000

Bergamo– 400,000,000,000
Power Up – 2,000,000,000,000
Power Up (Limit) – 10,000,000,000,000

Toppo– 30,000,000,000,000[/spoiler]


U7 Warriors Recruitment Arc


[spoiler]Son Goku– 300,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 3,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 – 6,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue – 15,000,000,000,000
Kaioken x2 – 30,000,000,000,000

Vegeta – 300,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 3,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue – 15,000,000,000,000

Son Gohan– 300,000,000,000
Super Saiyan – 1,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 – 3,000,000,000,000
Ultimate – 15,000,000,000,000

Android 17 – 10,000,000,000,000

Mister Boo – 3,000,000,000,000
Post Training – 7,500,000,000,000

Piccolo – 2,500,000,000,000
Without weighted clothes – 3,125,000,000,000

Son Goten – 20,000,000
Super Saiyan – 100,000,000

Trunks – 20,000,000
Super Saiyan – 100,000,000

Android 18 – 18,000,000
Kuririn – 150,000
Muten Roshi – 100,000
Tenshinhan – 50,000
Yamcha – 4,000
Chaozu – 2,500[/spoiler]

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ZombieVito
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Posts: 5901
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun May 14, 2017 5:32 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
emperior wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote: Isn't it implied Goku's ten times stronger than he was against Hit when they fight again?
It was clear Goku got stronger, but 10 times stronger would be way too much, and it's not like Hit or someone else ever commented Goku had gotten 10 times stronger since then. I have him higher than his tournament KKx2 self, which I believe makes the most sense, and Goku countered Hit's time-skip because he had already figured out how to counter it during the tournament.
Doesn't Hit improve his Time Skip further still though? To the point he dodges Goku's Kamehameha with Blue KKX10? That should imply quite a substantial increase if Hit's Time Skip doesn't work even on basic Blue Goku anymore.
Don't think so. Goku only said that that technique wouldn't work on him anymore.

He never said why and in the next episode he breaks the technique thanks to a sphere of ki.

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ekrolo2
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun May 14, 2017 5:42 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
emperior wrote:
It was clear Goku got stronger, but 10 times stronger would be way too much, and it's not like Hit or someone else ever commented Goku had gotten 10 times stronger since then. I have him higher than his tournament KKx2 self, which I believe makes the most sense, and Goku countered Hit's time-skip because he had already figured out how to counter it during the tournament.
Doesn't Hit improve his Time Skip further still though? To the point he dodges Goku's Kamehameha with Blue KKX10? That should imply quite a substantial increase if Hit's Time Skip doesn't work even on basic Blue Goku anymore.
Don't think so. Goku only said that that technique wouldn't work on him anymore.

He never said why and in the next episode he breaks the technique thanks to a sphere of ki.
Well we know why, it's because he's too strong for it, he even proves why when he blows it away by powering up. He has to be ten times or over ten times stronger to just power through it like that and not using the prediction tactic.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):

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ZombieVito
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Posts: 5901
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun May 14, 2017 5:47 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote: Doesn't Hit improve his Time Skip further still though? To the point he dodges Goku's Kamehameha with Blue KKX10? That should imply quite a substantial increase if Hit's Time Skip doesn't work even on basic Blue Goku anymore.
Don't think so. Goku only said that that technique wouldn't work on him anymore.

He never said why and in the next episode he breaks the technique thanks to a sphere of ki.
Well we know why, it's because he's too strong for it, he even proves why when he blows it away by powering up. He has to be ten times or over ten times stronger to just power through it like that and not using the prediction tactic.
He didn't broke it because he powered up. He creates a sphere of ki to break it and we do know that Goku can amplified his attacks to a great extent thanks to his beam clash with Zamasu.

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ekrolo2
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun May 14, 2017 5:52 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:
Don't think so. Goku only said that that technique wouldn't work on him anymore.

He never said why and in the next episode he breaks the technique thanks to a sphere of ki.
Well we know why, it's because he's too strong for it, he even proves why when he blows it away by powering up. He has to be ten times or over ten times stronger to just power through it like that and not using the prediction tactic.
He didn't broke it because he powered up. He creates a sphere of ki to break it and we do know that Goku can amplified his attacks to a great extent thanks to his beam clash with Zamasu.
I wouldn't use that as evidence because that remains one of the stupidest things Super has ever done power wise, especially since they had KK to freely explain why Goku, who's inferior to Black and especially Vegeta, is randomly above both of them just because.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun May 14, 2017 6:03 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote: Well we know why, it's because he's too strong for it, he even proves why when he blows it away by powering up. He has to be ten times or over ten times stronger to just power through it like that and not using the prediction tactic.
He didn't broke it because he powered up. He creates a sphere of ki to break it and we do know that Goku can amplified his attacks to a great extent thanks to his beam clash with Zamasu.
I wouldn't use that as evidence because that remains one of the stupidest things Super has ever done power wise, especially since they had KK to freely explain why Goku, who's inferior to Black and especially Vegeta, is randomly above both of them just because.
Stupidest? Really?

He pretty much sacrificed his arms to win that clash. I see nothing wrong with that.

Considering that he had over a 2 times multiplier at the start of Z for his Kamehameha, I have no problem believing that Goku had a multiplier of over 10 times in that clash. Add to that almost a year of training and it makes sense for that sphere of ki to break the Time-Skip.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun May 14, 2017 6:35 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:
He didn't broke it because he powered up. He creates a sphere of ki to break it and we do know that Goku can amplified his attacks to a great extent thanks to his beam clash with Zamasu.
I wouldn't use that as evidence because that remains one of the stupidest things Super has ever done power wise, especially since they had KK to freely explain why Goku, who's inferior to Black and especially Vegeta, is randomly above both of them just because.
Stupidest? Really?

He pretty much sacrificed his arms to win that clash. I see nothing wrong with that.

Considering that he had over a 2 times multiplier at the start of Z for his Kamehameha, I have no problem believing that Goku had a multiplier of over 10 times in that clash. Add to that almost a year of training and it makes sense for that sphere of ki to break the Time-Skip.
I consider it stupid because we already have a costly technique built into the story (that they later use anyway) that isn't just "Goku focused harder than he's ever done before!" to perfectly explain how to gets to the top of the pecking order from being the second weakest guy present: Kaio-Ken. A technique the use later anyway when they should've from the start and no one, freaking nobody, would've complained or bated at it.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun May 14, 2017 7:59 pm

ekrolo2 wrote: I consider it stupid because we already have a costly technique built into the story (that they later use anyway) that isn't just "Goku focused harder than he's ever done before!" to perfectly explain how to gets to the top of the pecking order from being the second weakest guy present: Kaio-Ken. A technique the use later anyway when they should've from the start and no one, freaking nobody, would've complained or bated at it.
Well considering how frequent he has done it in this arc, it can only mean that he couldn't do it freely in the Black arc.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Analytic » Sun May 14, 2017 8:37 pm

DanielSSJ wrote:It seems extremely telling to me that the only concrete comparative statements about Gotenks were made before he ever existed, and it's by the guy who is already downplaying his own strength.
Why should the statement being made before Gotenks existed mean that it's not true? That rule seems completely arbitrary. And Goku was downplaying his strength because he wanted to give the kids a chance at saving the world; why does that diminish the validity of his statement about how strong Gotenks will be?
DanielSSJ wrote:Gotenks is unfulfilled hype.
Unfulfilled? If Goku blatantly says that Gotenks will be stronger than him, then what is there to doubt? Piccolo basically confirms Gotenks' strength when he says that Gotenks "really is absolutely incredible" (Key word being: "really").

If anything, I would say that it's telling that Boo just happened to turn into a more powerful form just before he got a chance to fight Gotenks. Seems kind of redundant if Boo was stronger either way.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sun May 14, 2017 8:40 pm

Well it seemed as though Super Saiyan Gotenks Pre Rosat was probably stronger than Fat Buu. Super Saiyan Gotenks Post Rosat would have seemingly have powered up hugely.

I wonder if it goes like this

SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ2 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku > SSJ Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks (Pre) > Fat Buu

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun May 14, 2017 8:50 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote: I consider it stupid because we already have a costly technique built into the story (that they later use anyway) that isn't just "Goku focused harder than he's ever done before!" to perfectly explain how to gets to the top of the pecking order from being the second weakest guy present: Kaio-Ken. A technique the use later anyway when they should've from the start and no one, freaking nobody, would've complained or bated at it.
Well considering how frequent he has done it in this arc, it can only mean that he couldn't do it freely in the Black arc.
But he can still do it just fine after an exhausting beam struggle and with most of his limbs destroyed? With nary a hint of ki disorder afterwards too.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun May 14, 2017 9:07 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote: I consider it stupid because we already have a costly technique built into the story (that they later use anyway) that isn't just "Goku focused harder than he's ever done before!" to perfectly explain how to gets to the top of the pecking order from being the second weakest guy present: Kaio-Ken. A technique the use later anyway when they should've from the start and no one, freaking nobody, would've complained or bated at it.
Well considering how frequent he has done it in this arc, it can only mean that he couldn't do it freely in the Black arc.
But he can still do it just fine after an exhausting beam struggle and with most of his limbs destroyed? With nary a hint of ki disorder afterwards too.
Well it was either do it or die situation and after that he couldn't even move.

I thought the ki disorder thing was because he used up to 10.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Sun May 14, 2017 10:56 pm

Analytic wrote:Why should the statement being made before Gotenks existed mean that it's not true? That rule seems completely arbitrary. And Goku was downplaying his strength because he wanted to give the kids a chance at saving the world; why does that diminish the validity of his statement about how strong Gotenks will be?
Because Goku has little way of knowing for sure how powerful Gotenks would be. He made a prediction, and in my eyes, it was a little off, at least until Gotenks hoped into the Room of Spirit and Time.
Unfulfilled? If Goku blatantly says that Gotenks will be stronger than him, then what is there to doubt? Piccolo basically confirms Gotenks' strength when he says that Gotenks "really is absolutely incredible" (Key word being: "really").

If anything, I would say that it's telling that Boo just happened to turn into a more powerful form just before he got a chance to fight Gotenks. Seems kind of redundant if Boo was stronger either way.
Yes, unfulfilled. While Gotenks was indeed powerful when he was finally successfully formed, his over-sized ego nearly got himself killed several times. Not very impressive for someone who would "definitely" defeat Boo. And I find it telling that when Piccolo says Gotenks is impressive, he doesn't actually say that he could beat Boo. He needs to test him to be sure.

Look, my whole point of view with Gotenks is that there isn't much concrete information about him (aside from Daizenshuu 7 strongly implying that he didn't surpass Vegeta until after his session in the Room of Spirit and Time, but then they also say stuff like Goten being equal to Gohan, and the Cell Juniors being equal to Cell himself, so take that with what you will).
If you want to say that Gotenks is stronger than Goku from the outset and could've beaten Boo, go ahead. You could be right. But if you want to say that he didn't quite live up to the hype, you can say that too, because you could be right. I personally think that the manga implies that Gotenks isn't quite as strong as he's initially made out to be, but those are just implications. I could be interpreting it wrong. But I'm not holding my breath that some official source will spell everything out for us one day.

As an aside, I'm willing to bet that Toriyama purposely avoided direct power comparisons in regards to Gotenks because he was writing the story as he went along. The man has stated that he's changed him mind on who is stronger than who before.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Analytic » Mon May 15, 2017 1:39 am

DanielSSJ wrote:Because Goku has little way of knowing for sure how powerful Gotenks would be.
According to who? Why do you get to decide what Goku can and can't do? I would think that Goku has more knowledge on fusion than you do.
DanielSSJ wrote:And I find it telling that when Piccolo says Gotenks is impressive, he doesn't actually say that he could beat Boo. He needs to test him to be sure.
You skipped over the key word: "really". There's a difference between general praise (e.g. "Wow, you're incredible!") and confirmation of a statement (e.g. "Wow, you really are incredible!") The "really" basically makes it sound as if Piccolo is confirming a suspicion or an assertion made prior, which was that Gotenks would be stronger than Goku. If Gotenks didn't quite measure up to Goku's expectations, I don't think Piccolo would say that he really is incredible.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Mon May 15, 2017 2:58 am

Analytic wrote:You skipped over the key word: "really". There's a difference between general praise (e.g. "Wow, you're incredible!") and confirmation of a statement (e.g. "Wow, you really are incredible!") The "really" basically makes it sound as if Piccolo is confirming a suspicion or an assertion made prior, which was that Gotenks would be stronger than Goku. If Gotenks didn't quite measure up to Goku's expectations, I don't think Piccolo would say that he really is incredible.
I personally think the key word in there is "but", as in “…Yeah…Your ki really is absolutely incredible, but how about your movement?...Show me a little.” Gotenks is clearly packing a lot of heat, but Piccolo isn't convinced just yet. He needs to the the kid in action.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Mon May 15, 2017 8:35 am

Bullza wrote:Well it seemed as though Super Saiyan Gotenks Pre Rosat was probably stronger than Fat Buu. Super Saiyan Gotenks Post Rosat would have seemingly have powered up hugely.

I wonder if it goes like this

SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ2 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku > SSJ Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks (Pre) > Fat Buu
Well, SSJ Gotenks (Pre) was stated in an official guidebook to be weaker than Vegeta, yeah after the ROSAT he would defeat Fat Buu for sure, but prior to the ROSAT, Gotenks was still not strong enough. I'd place SSJ Gotenks (Pre) stronger than Super Perfect Cell(SSJ2 Gohan, but weaker than SSJ2 Majin Vegeta.

However, the guidebook could be wrong, and Gotenks could actually be stronger than Fat Buu even after the ROSAT. For now, I think it's better for everyone to have their own interpretation of Gotenks' power (pre).

But SSJ Gotenks (post) is surely above Fat Buu, I don't deny that at all. Comparing him to SSJ3 Goku would be the problem, but I think SSJ3 Goku would beat SSJ Gotenks in a match.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Tue May 16, 2017 7:44 pm

Well guys. I think it's time to show my updated power levels for the Z human warriors. Krillin, Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu. All of them from each saga.

Chiaotzu:

Raditz Arc - 145

Saiyan Arc - 610

Frieza Arc - 3,000; 9,000; 18,000

Mecha Frieza Arc - 20,000

Cell Arc - 25,000

Buu Arc - 30,000

In the beggining of the series, Chiaotzu starts with a power level of 145, since he's probably stronger than Roshi ever since the 23rd Budokai. He trains at Kami's palace and gets to a power level of 610, which is quite low in comparison to the other characters. After he dies during the battle with Nappa, he goes with the others to train with King Kai. After 6 days of training, Chiaotzu passes most of the Frieza arc with a power level of 3,000. 130 days pass, and Krillin and Yamcha are revived, Chiaotzu wants to stay with Tien for more time at King Kai's place. At this point Chiaotzu has a power level of 9,000. Another 130 days pass, and Chiaotzu has a power level of 18,000, that makes him equal to Saiyan Arc Vegeta. I made Chiaotzu's multiplier for his training in King Kai a x16 instead of the x20 I use for the others. This is because Chiaotzu seems to have less potential than the others, as proved in the Saiyan arc. He trains for another year with Tien, and has a power level of 20,000 by the time Mecha Frieza and King Cold arrive. Chiaotzu then goes to train intensively with Tien for 3 years, in preparation for the Androids. However, his gains are lower in comparison to the others, and is out of the game. He only manages to have a power level of 25,000. He trains for 7 years before the Buu arc, and gets to a power level of 30,000 by the time of that saga. That puts Chiaotzu at the level of Monster Zarbon and Vegeta after his second Zenkai.


Yamcha:

Raditz Arc - 177

Saiyan Arc - 1,480

Frieza Arc - 7,500; 30,000; 32,000

Mecha Frieza Arc - 35,000

Cell Arc - 50,000

Buu Arc - 46,000

In the beggining of the series, Yamcha starts with a power level of 177, as stated in the manga when Bulma was reading through Raditz's scouter. He trains at Kami's palace for the saiyans' arrival, and gets a power level of 1,480 as stated in the Daizenshuu 7. He is killed by a Saibaman, and goes with the others to train with King Kai. After 6 days of training, he passes most of the Frieza arc with a power level of 7,500. 130 days pass, and he is revived, being trained with King Kai he has a power level of 30,000, that's nearly a x20 increase, that's because he trained 136 days, nearly the same amount of time as Goku's 158 days, though 3 weeks earlier, but still, unlike Goku, he had partners to fight with, thus increasing his power even better. Another 130 days pass, and Tien and Chiaotzu are revived. Yamcha at this point increased his power level a bit, a 32,000. I assume he still kept on his training, so by the time Mecha Frieza and King Cold arrive, he has a power level of 35,000. Later he trains intensively for 3 years, in preparation for the Androids. His increases are better than Chiaotzu's, and has a power level of 50,000. He's way stronger than Chiaotzu, but way weaker than the others. At his prime, he is able to fight Recoome, Burter and Jeice, all 3 at the same time, probably not defeating them unless he uses his best techniques. 7 years pass, and Yamcha loses motivation and stops training. In the Buu Arc, he has a power level of 46,000, and this time he wouldn't be able to defeat all 3 of the Ginyu Force members if they team up together, though individually Yamcha has some chance.


Tenshinhan:

Raditz Arc - 250

Saiyan Arc - 1,830

Frieza Arc - 9,000; 36,000; 73,000

Mecha Frieza Arc - 85,000

Cell Arc - 120,000

Buu Arc - 180,000

In the beggining of the series, Tien starts with a power level of 250, as stated in the manga when Bulma was reading through Raditz's scouter. He trains at Kami's palace for the saiyans' arrival, and gets a power level of 1,830 as stated in the Daizenshuu 7. He battles against Nappa, and dies after using the Kikoho, and goes with the others to train with King Kai. After 6 days of training, he passes most of the Frieza arc with a power level of 9,000. 130 days pass, and Yamcha and Krillin are revived. Tien, however, wants to stay longer at King Kai's planet to train more, he has 36,000 at this point. So he trains for another 130 days, where he gets another boost up to 73,000. A year passes, Tien trains and has a reading 85,000 by the time Mecha Frieza and King Cold arrive. Later he trains intensively for 3 years, in preparation for the Androids. With the exception of Krillin, he ends up a lot higher than the other humans in terms of power, reaching to 120,000. That's equal to Captain Ginyu, and if both of them fight, I guess Tien could win if he uses his best techniques or takes care with Ginyu's changing bodies technique. He trains again for another 7 years since we know that he is always keeping up with his training. He reaches to 180,000, equal to Kaioken X2 Goku. If both were to fight, it would be similar to their old fight from the 22nd Budokai. Anyway, Tien manages to surpass the 100,000 reading ever since the Cell arc, that's good for a human that didn't receive Guru's Unlock Potential. Though he is not stronger than Krillin still.


Krillin:

Raditz Arc - 206

Saiyan Arc - 1,770

Frieza Arc - 2,000; 13,000; 23,400; 42,000; 75,000; 90,000

Mecha Frieza Arc - 135,000

Cell Arc - 1,200,000

Buu Arc - 1,100,000

Now for the strongest one, Krillin. In the beggining of the series, Krillin starts with a power level of 206, as stated in the manga when Bulma was reading through Raditz's scouter. He trains at Kami's palace for the saiyans' arrival, and gets a power level of 1,830 as stated in the Daizenshuu 7. He battles against Nappa and is able to survive when Goku arrived, at this point he is still weaker than Tien. The battle with Vegeta ends, and Krillin is at hospital. They depart to Namek, and Krillin should have trained a bit during those weeks after the hospital, as well as the weeks in Kami's ship, that would make Krillin far above the 1,500 reading from Zarbon's scouter. Since Krillin had weights, his real power is much higher. I have him at 2,000. After the rescue of Dende, they decided to go to Guru's place for the dragon ball. They get there, and not only Krillin receives the dragon ball from Guru, but also a power boost, his full potential. That boost changes Krillin's status in comparison to Tien completely, making him the strongest human. The power level Krillin has after recieveing that boost is 13,000. He is defeated by Recoome, eats a senzu bean when Goku arrived, and much later when Ginyu was in Goku's body with a 23,000 reading, Krillin is able to fight equally with him, making Krillin 23,400, that's a x1.8 of difference from the previous 13,000. That multiplier would keep going, to 42,000, the level I think Krillin had when he was stabbed by Frieza. His potential continues to rise until he reaches to 75,000, his final level for Namek, right before he is killed by Frieza. That's a really high level, being able to defeat all the Ginyu Force members, except for Captain Ginyu, easily. However, he stands short (no pun intended) against the likes of Gohan, Piccolo, Goku and Vegeta. 130 days pass and Krillin is revived along with Yamcha. When Tien and Chiaotzu are revived 130 days after that event, Krillin already increased his strenght through training as well as his unlock potential, and gets to 90,000.

A year passes, and with the unlocked potential he has as well as still wanting to train, Krillin gets to 135,000 by the time Mecha Frieza and King Cold arrive. Later he trains intensively for 3 years, and gets to 1,200,000 thanks for his unlocked potential (that's also the reason I think why Piccolo and Gohan recieved high boosts during the 3 years of training). At this point, he can defeat the whole Frieza arc up to Second Form Frieza, but is defeated by Piccolo after his fusion with Nail (which I personally have him at 1,300,000). He can also defeat all the other Z humans at once. However, he doesn't train during the next 7 years, since he is married with Android 18 and has a family, as well as losing motivation to fight. He has a power level of 1,100,000. He can still defeat Second Form Frieza (who is twice the strenght of First Form Frieza, at 1,060,000) though it would be harder than before.


This is the strenght of the Z humans I give to them, for now. I tried to have the same boost as the other characters when it comes to the 3 years of training this time, with the exception of Krillin of course because of his unlocked potential. Feel free to comment about it, if you agree or disagree then you can put your opinions below.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Gog » Tue May 16, 2017 8:19 pm

Search for the Dragon Balls:

[spoiler]Goku:

100

50 (hungry)

1000 (Ozaruu)

Bulma:

2

Pterodactyl:

9

Bear thief:

15

Oolong:

2.1

Axe:

110

Pilaf:

1

Mai:

5

Shu:

3

Yamcha:

80

Puar:

2

Ox King:

500

Chi-Chi:

1.2

Master Roshi:

400

6000 (Full power)[/spoiler]


The Strongest Under the Heavens:

[spoiler]Ran Fuan:

30

Jackie Chun:

(Same as Master Roshi.)

Goku:

400

4000 (Ozaruu)

Kuririn:

380

Lunch:

2 (good)

4 (bad)

Giran:

100

Nam:

300[/spoiler]


The Red Ribbon Arc:

[spoiler]General Blue:

390

Shotgun:

100000000000000000000000000000000

Mouse:

5000 (General Blue was frightened of it’s power)

Corporal Purple:

120

The Jiggler:

410

Android 8:

400

Commander Red:

1.4

Black:

10

200 (mecha suit)

Arale:

???

Tao-Pai-Pai:

6200

Bomb:

7010

Goku:

6930 (post Karin)[/spoiler]

King Piccolo arc:

[spoiler]Chazou:

5000

Kuririn:

5500

Goku:

8500

49000 (Super Divine Water)

Jackie Chun:

7890 (secret training)

Ten:

7900

Master Shen:

300

Yamcha:

7700

Tambourine:

7999

Gourd:

2000

King Piccolo:

10000 (old)

50000 (young)

Mr Popo:

55000

God:

70000[/spoiler]


The Return of Piccolo Arc:

[spoiler]Yamcha:

45000

Kuririn:

46000

Chi-Chi:

400

Ten:

47000

Goku:

90000

Piccolo:

90000

92000 (big)

94000 (massive)

God:

50000 (Shen)

Tao Pai Pai:

43400 (mecha)[/spoiler]

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