Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Koitsukai
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:12 am

Bullza wrote:Well I see now that Base Goku appears to be stronger than Super Saiyan Gohan and Goten. Vegeta had to transform into a Super Saiyan for Super Saiyan Gohan though.

So would it be accurate to say that Goten, Trunks, Gohan and Vegeta all have a similar power to their Buu saga appearance and Base Goku is a lot stronger than them as he's above Buu?
Yes, I'd set Vegeta apart from them though, he never let himself go like they did. Goku is out of their league since day 1 and it grows exponentially.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:21 am

How strong is Uub supposed to be? He appears to be very inconsistent.

Majuub would appear to be even more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Putting up a better fight against Baby Vegeta in Strongest Form 2 than Goku did against Super Saiyan Baby Vegeta.

But then in the Super Android 17 saga he gets stomped and Super Saiyan Goku still appears to be stronger.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:48 pm

Bullza wrote:How strong is Uub supposed to be? He appears to be very inconsistent.

Majuub would appear to be even more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Putting up a better fight against Baby Vegeta in Strongest Form 2 than Goku did against Super Saiyan Baby Vegeta.

But then in the Super Android 17 saga he gets stomped and Super Saiyan Goku still appears to be stronger.
Uub should be at least Kid Buu level, being trained by Gokou for years (it was believed that there were 10 years between Z and GT but apparently it was just 5 years) he should've mastered his Buu self and then some by the start of GT. So maybe around Super Buu level, although he is still human and they(we) do have limits. Then comes Mr. Buu, they merge, so Kid Buu+Mr Buu = Super Buu + years of training = Buff Buu, or if we want to go crazy = Ultimate Gohan, tops. But not even close to the likes of Buutenks.

Becoming a kid made Goku lose a great deal of power and some techniques too, so I don't think SS3 kid Goku could use that transformation at full extent(in Z even adult Goku had trouble with it), in the first round against Baby he lost it after throwing a few punches and in the second round Baby said his power was the same as the last time, so probably he only managed to sustain it a little longer.

Regarding the S-17 arc, I guess we could say Goku had a zenkai boost(although he didn't get one after almost dying against Baby's Death Revenge Ball) and he was way stronger than in the previous arc. Still, Majuub perfomed as bad as the rest of the Z fighters so probably the explanation is bad writing, after all according to the writers, everyone got sidelined in order to let Goku shine even brighter.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:28 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Bullza wrote:How strong is Uub supposed to be? He appears to be very inconsistent.

Majuub would appear to be even more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Putting up a better fight against Baby Vegeta in Strongest Form 2 than Goku did against Super Saiyan Baby Vegeta.

But then in the Super Android 17 saga he gets stomped and Super Saiyan Goku still appears to be stronger.
Uub should be at least Kid Buu level, being trained by Gokou for years (it was believed that there were 10 years between Z and GT but apparently it was just 5 years) he should've mastered his Buu self and then some by the start of GT. So maybe around Super Buu level, although he is still human and they(we) do have limits. Then comes Mr. Buu, they merge, so Kid Buu+Mr Buu = Super Buu + years of training = Buff Buu, or if we want to go crazy = Ultimate Gohan, tops. But not even close to the likes of Buutenks.

Becoming a kid made Goku lose a great deal of power and some techniques too, so I don't think SS3 kid Goku could use that transformation at full extent(in Z even adult Goku had trouble with it), in the first round against Baby he lost it after throwing a few punches and in the second round Baby said his power was the same as the last time, so probably he only managed to sustain it a little longer.

Regarding the S-17 arc, I guess we could say Goku had a zenkai boost(although he didn't get one after almost dying against Baby's Death Revenge Ball) and he was way stronger than in the previous arc. Still, Majuub perfomed as bad as the rest of the Z fighters so probably the explanation is bad writing, after all according to the writers, everyone got sidelined in order to let Goku shine even brighter.
Some people argue that at the EoZ Uub could access his Kid Buu power. I don't personally believe it, but by the time of 5 years after the EoZ I believe he surpassed any iteration of Buu. I can't say this definitively, but that appeared to be the case.

In terms of Majuub, he is DEFINITELY far stronger than any iteration of Buu. Goku's Base was as strong or stronger than (Buu? probably Pure Buu) and his SSJ3 self is obviously 400x that. Now, Goku's SSJ3 put up absolutely no fight against Super Baby Vegeta and Majuub put up atleast as good of a fight, if not better, against a stronger version of Baby in Super Baby Vegeta 2. The GT perfect files imply, that the 3 versions of Baby are equivalent to SSJ,SSJ2, and SSJ3. So following that, Super Baby 2 is 4x as strong as Super Baby and Majuub put up just as good, if not a better fight. And so it follows that things look something like this:

Goku: 1
SSJ3 Goku: 400
Super Baby: 600
Super Baby 2:2,400
Majuub:2,000

You could reasonably say that Majuub is 2,000x stronger than Pure Buu in the Buu Arc and definitely, at the bare minimum, 500x stronger than Pure Buu.
Bullza wrote:Majuub would appear to be even more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Putting up a better fight against Baby Vegeta in Strongest Form 2 than Goku did against Super Saiyan Baby Vegeta.

But then in the Super Android 17 saga he gets stomped and Super Saiyan Goku still appears to be stronger.
Yes, Baby Arc Majuub>>SSJ3 Goku. It isn't necessarily inconsistent, Goku just becomes much much stronger in the gap between. It doesn't make much sense, but it doesn't contradict anything. After all, GT is simply "Goku's time" so it would be unexpected for anyone other than Goku to be useful in any way.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:08 pm

But wasn't Majuub made out to be weaker than Super Saiyan Vegeta as well?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:42 am

Bullza wrote:But wasn't Majuub made out to be weaker than Super Saiyan Vegeta as well?
Vegeta possibly absorbed some of the power he had when Baby possessed him.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by miguelnuva1 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:03 pm

Bullza wrote:But wasn't Majuub made out to be weaker than Super Saiyan Vegeta as well?
Vegeta and Goku trained for a year.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:13 pm

But in the Baby Saga, Super Saiyan Vegeta would presumably be weaker than Base Goku.

With one year of training he'd be stronger than Majuub who was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku?

He'd have to get hundreds of times stronger in a single year.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by jeffbr92 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:48 pm

Could Super Oob (or Majuub( to be considered to be evenly matched with (GT) SSJ3 Goku?
Power levels are not just big numbers:

by Doctor.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Champa The Destroyer » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:56 pm

p-hyvo wrote:heroes suggests that super power levels are much higher than gt's

so, that's it. i came to this conclusion based on the following scale
xeno Goku >=beat blue >= MUI Goku and jiren >2# form demigra>>>>super mira = ssj3 tb bardack>>>>> base tb bardack >ssj4 gogeta

from this, i've calulate the multipliers for ssjg and ssjb, that are respectively :
ssjg = x8'000'000'000'000'000
ssjb = x400'000'000'000'000'000

uh and no, ccl Goku from heroes is not dbs Goku, but another of the lots of parallel gokus that heroes brings in. ccl Goku is. by logic, a lot stronger than Goku from dbs


any thought on that? are my thoughts ok or does anyone have any advice?

I know almost nothing about Heroes, but what puts SSB Beat above or equal to MUI Goku and Jiren?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:15 am

PFM18 wrote:
Koitsukai wrote:
Bullza wrote:How strong is Uub supposed to be? He appears to be very inconsistent.

Majuub would appear to be even more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Putting up a better fight against Baby Vegeta in Strongest Form 2 than Goku did against Super Saiyan Baby Vegeta.

But then in the Super Android 17 saga he gets stomped and Super Saiyan Goku still appears to be stronger.
Uub should be at least Kid Buu level, being trained by Gokou for years (it was believed that there were 10 years between Z and GT but apparently it was just 5 years) he should've mastered his Buu self and then some by the start of GT. So maybe around Super Buu level, although he is still human and they(we) do have limits. Then comes Mr. Buu, they merge, so Kid Buu+Mr Buu = Super Buu + years of training = Buff Buu, or if we want to go crazy = Ultimate Gohan, tops. But not even close to the likes of Buutenks.

Becoming a kid made Goku lose a great deal of power and some techniques too, so I don't think SS3 kid Goku could use that transformation at full extent(in Z even adult Goku had trouble with it), in the first round against Baby he lost it after throwing a few punches and in the second round Baby said his power was the same as the last time, so probably he only managed to sustain it a little longer.

Regarding the S-17 arc, I guess we could say Goku had a zenkai boost(although he didn't get one after almost dying against Baby's Death Revenge Ball) and he was way stronger than in the previous arc. Still, Majuub perfomed as bad as the rest of the Z fighters so probably the explanation is bad writing, after all according to the writers, everyone got sidelined in order to let Goku shine even brighter.
Some people argue that at the EoZ Uub could access his Kid Buu power. I don't personally believe it, but by the time of 5 years after the EoZ I believe he surpassed any iteration of Buu. I can't say this definitively, but that appeared to be the case.

In terms of Majuub, he is DEFINITELY far stronger than any iteration of Buu. Goku's Base was as strong or stronger than (Buu? probably Pure Buu) and his SSJ3 self is obviously 400x that. Now, Goku's SSJ3 put up absolutely no fight against Super Baby Vegeta and Majuub put up atleast as good of a fight, if not better, against a stronger version of Baby in Super Baby Vegeta 2. The GT perfect files imply, that the 3 versions of Baby are equivalent to SSJ,SSJ2, and SSJ3. So following that, Super Baby 2 is 4x as strong as Super Baby and Majuub put up just as good, if not a better fight. And so it follows that things look something like this:

Goku: 1
SSJ3 Goku: 400
Super Baby: 600
Super Baby 2:2,400
Majuub:2,000

You could reasonably say that Majuub is 2,000x stronger than Pure Buu in the Buu Arc and definitely, at the bare minimum, 500x stronger than Pure Buu.

That makes a hell lot of sense, the problem I have with it is that I don't think Uub could get that much strong just by training, it all comes down to Uub having an incredible potential (which would support your post) or having a normal human potential but with the the power of Kid Buu. There is nothing that supports Uub being potentially that powerful, only Goku's interest in him, and by the time EoZ aired Kid Buu was high tier as fuck but with nowadays or even GT standards he is just lame, GT failed at clearing that up, he was less than a side character, and as you might know by know I'm on the NOT THAT STRONG side of GT's power levels. Seeing Majuub being fodder just like the rest of the now-laid-back-saiyans and not even standing out just doesn't fit with your theory but like we know, the writers were Goku-timing it like crazy by then so is not a big deal.
I do believe SS4 Goku and Golden Ohzaru Baby to be stronger than Super Vegito (people don't take into account just how fucking OP that dude was) but still in the same realm, so Vegeta Baby I have him well above Buuhan but not as strong as Super Vegito (which is still an unexplainable power up considering the characters that are part of him), that's why I wouldn't place Majuub that high.

That being said, I might see your theory with new eyes once I get to rewatch it again, nothing supports my headcannon either and unlike pretty much everyone else in the planet, I can actually change my mind without losing any blood.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:23 am

Bullza wrote:But in the Baby Saga, Super Saiyan Vegeta would presumably be weaker than Base Goku.

With one year of training he'd be stronger than Majuub who was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku?

He'd have to get hundreds of times stronger in a single year.
I don't think Vegeta was stronger than Uub, he stopped chasing Gokou a long time ago according to himself, and he was already weaker than Kid Buu, so without a clear intent of surpassing Goku, I don't see Vegeta getting that much stronger, and Uub I believe got stronger than Kid Buu even before merging with fatso. I don't recall Vegeta training or something implying that, I don't think there was any need for him either, the Black DB threat was being taking care of and Gokou just got a lot weaker, he wouldn't relish on surpassing Kid Goku, i don't see him taking that chance, because of the pride thing. To surpass Uub he probably would need to get into the HTC and with someone that could pose a challenge to him and that was never implied.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:19 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Bullza wrote:But wasn't Majuub made out to be weaker than Super Saiyan Vegeta as well?
Vegeta possibly absorbed some of the power he had when Baby possessed him.
Right. One way or another Vegeta seemed much stronger

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:21 am

Super Saiyan Goku > Super Saiyan Vegeta > Majuub > Super Saiyan 3 Goku > Super Saiyan Goku > Base Goku > Super Saiyan Vegeta

That doesn't seem right to me at all.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:27 am

Bullza wrote:Super Saiyan Goku > Super Saiyan Vegeta > Majuub > Super Saiyan 3 Goku > Super Saiyan Goku > Base Goku > Super Saiyan Vegeta

That doesn't seem right to me at all.
Toei isn’t very consistent with powerscalling, they kind of let the viewer to assume the Saiyans get stronger the more they fight.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:18 am

There isn't anything implying that Majoob>SSJ3 Goku. Pretty sure that Baby was stated to have been toying with him. Majoob was easily overpowered after Baby stopped toying. Vegeta performed better against Super 17 than Majoob.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:37 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Bullza wrote:Super Saiyan Goku > Super Saiyan Vegeta > Majuub > Super Saiyan 3 Goku > Super Saiyan Goku > Base Goku > Super Saiyan Vegeta

That doesn't seem right to me at all.
Toei isn’t very consistent with powerscalling, they kind of let the viewer to assume the Saiyans get stronger the more they fight.
Ironically, Vegeta in the Namek/Freeza arc states that to be the case.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:34 pm

Goku actually does say that to Baby as well.

Before I started watching this people mentioned the power scaling and I didn't remember what the issue was besides how strong Base Goku was. Now I can see why because most of it just doesn't many any sense.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by miguelnuva1 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:13 pm

Bullza wrote:Super Saiyan Goku > Super Saiyan Vegeta > Majuub > Super Saiyan 3 Goku > Super Saiyan Goku > Base Goku > Super Saiyan Vegeta

That doesn't seem right to me at all.
Your scale is off. Vegeta goes ssj2 right before Goku comes back and still can't budge Super 17. Ssj Gokuater knocks him around the world.

Had Goku not given him energy Goku might have been able to win as a super saiyan.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:38 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote:Your scale is off. Vegeta goes ssj2 right before Goku comes back and still can't budge Super 17. Ssj Gokuater knocks him around the world.

Had Goku not given him energy Goku might have been able to win as a super saiyan.
Well I haven't quote for up to that point just yet. I didn't think Super Saiyan 2 was even used in GT?

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