Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

dragonball0900 · Post by **dragonball0900** » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:40 pm

Bullza wrote:Yeah I originally had Grandpa Gohan closer to Goku than I have him now. I thought they were closer than they were until I read that Gohan said he was actually no match for him.

Looking at the fights side by side I would say they're very similar. You might even make the argument that Tao was stronger.

I think Gohan is stronger than Tao because Gohan at least manages to make Goku a good fight, when Tao seemed weak in comparison to Goku.

I saw your list, and I must say that it looks really well done. I also agree that Roshi should be weaker than 139 here, since it somewhat fixes the gaps. There are some things that I don't agree, but they are just my personal opinions, nothing based on statemets. So I'd say your list is pretty good.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:51 pm

Speaking of Gohan. Do you guys think he trained in the afterlife?

Nothing was ever implied he did but then again a Goku that was weaker than 10 gave him some trouble in Minus.

Noah · Post by **Noah** » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:35 pm

In what point Goku had finally surpassed Kamesennin?

VegetaSSJBlue · Post by **VegetaSSJBlue** » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:37 pm

Noah wrote:In what point Goku had finally surpassed Kamesennin?

22nd Tenkaichi Budokai

Noah · Post by **Noah** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:48 am

VegetaSSJBlue wrote:22nd Tenkaichi Budokai

Even in his buff form?

Bullza · Post by **Bullza** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:52 am

Noah wrote:In what point Goku had finally surpassed Kamesennin?

After training with Korin.

Roshi said that Goku may have surpassed him after he took down the RRA. Then later on when he fought...Devil Man? He said that he was even stronger than he thought.

He didn't even see the kick that took Devil Man down.

Even in his buff form?

Well that one is a bit more ambiguous. Apparently King Piccolo had the power of a small Nuke. Buff Roshi blew up the moon though so he should be far stronger maybe not even that far off from weighted Piccolo in DBZ.

And that was Buff Roshi back in the 21st Budokai. He got a lot stronger by the 22nd Budokai and if the Buff form improves along with it then he could have a power level of several hundred.

That would make sense with why he could take on a bunch of Frieza's henchmen, second rate or not.

On the other hand you could say if he were that strong then he could have beaten King Piccolo and Piccolo Jr in the original series. Why did he never use that form when fighting before? Or couldn't he?

emperior · Post by **emperior** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:39 am

Bullza wrote:
Noah wrote:In what point Goku had finally surpassed Kamesennin?
After training with Korin.

Roshi said that Goku may have surpassed him after he took down the RRA. Then later on when he fought...Devil Man? He said that he was even stronger than he thought.

He didn't even see the kick that took Devil Man down.

Even in his buff form?
Well that one is a bit more ambiguous. Apparently King Piccolo had the power of a small Nuke. Buff Roshi blew up the moon though so he should be far stronger maybe not even that far off from weighted Piccolo in DBZ.

And that was Buff Roshi back in the 21st Budokai. He got a lot stronger by the 22nd Budokai and if the Buff form improves along with it then he could have a power level of several hundred.

That would make sense with why he could take on a bunch of Frieza's henchmen, second rate or not.

On the other hand you could say if he were that strong then he could have beaten King Piccolo and Piccolo Jr in the original series. Why did he never use that form when fighting before? Or couldn't he?

You shouldn't compare those feats, it's obvious Toriyama hadn't put this much tought into it. Buff Roshi should be just a small increase in his power.
By the way, even if Buff Roshi was 300+, we always saw he can't keep on the form for long. He always reverted back to normal after firing a Kamehameha wave so he probably knew or thought the form wouldn't have been enough to beat Piccolo, that' why he put all his hope into the Mafuba.

Saturnine · Post by **Saturnine** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:14 am

What do you guys think of assuming a 5x SSj multiplier for Fusion-tier characters?

That solves a few issues:

- Allows unfused characters such as Goku to remain inferior to 100% Freeza in base by preserving the 50x multiplier for their realm of power
- Prevents overly ridiculous power inflation with fusion-tier characters
- Makes post-RoSaT base Gotenks > pre-RoSaT SSj Gotenks at least remotely plausible
- Consistent with Goku's 3000 Kiri, implying a 5x increase from base (though we transpose it to fused characters only)

Since pre-RoSaT base Gotenks was already around SSj2 Majin Vegeta tier (so, according to official multipliers, 100 times stronger than base Vegeta), getting him 50x stronger still on top of that would push power inflation into the realm of the ridiculous, not to mention make Super Buu's power implausible, Ultimate Gohan's even more so.

Keeping a 5x fusion-tier multiplier helps cut this mess down a little bit, while still allowing Super Buu to be at least 8-10x of SSj3 Goku and base Vegetto to be around 6x stronger than SSj3 Goku. If we assumed a 50x multiplier for Vegetto, that would make the lowest plausible base Vegetto only around 2,33x stronger than SSj2 Goku/Majin Vegeta. Gotenks was around SSj2 Majin Vegeta level himself, and not only was the fusion method inferior, but the boys were significantly weaker than their fathers, so I feel that would make base Vegetto too weak.

Desassina · Post by **Desassina** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:19 am

Here's an idea: ranging power.

Base - [1, 50]
SSJ1 - [50, 100]
SSJ2 - [100, 400]
SSJ3 - [400, 6'400]

So, when Gotenks was a Super Saiyan the first time, he tapped into 50x his base power. Then he got 1.25 times stronger than before by going into the Room of Spirit and Time, and used about 40 times his battle power at base, which makes it equal to the SSJ state from before (for example). A tiny increase makes a difference depending on how far they are into their forms.

When Goku was a Super Saiyan against Yakon, and their difference was that of 3.75x, his base state might have increased up to 14 times his battle power to dodge Yakon's attacks. It works with the battles' depiction of power going up and down. Stick to that, because it doesn't contradict anything, while the fusion multiplier could be 10 very easily (as the sum of Goten and Trunks' power times 10).

apex_pretador · Post by **apex_pretador** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:37 am

Bullza wrote: Ranfan – 45
Bacterian – 44

Mercenary Tao – 83
King Chappa – 98

My only problems with this list.

1. Why are bacterian and Ranfan so absurdly high? Okay, they did get through the qualifying rounds, but they were nothing impressive. They should be closer to 20 or so and that probably would still be highballing.

2. Tao surpasses chappa in both feats and hype. And for the "only" argument that "Roshi saw goku in action before that fight", Roshi did not know about chappa's actual power (just going off hype), and he only briefly saw goku in action post karin and that was when goku was not trying to kill just fight (and Tao did much better than chappa against goku). It is unlikely that Roshi would remember the movements exactly from 3 years ago when he did not even pay proper attention and could not sense ki.
Not to mention that roshi never doubts goku beating chappa

DBZ Macky · Post by **DBZ Macky** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:07 pm

ZombieVito wrote:Speaking of Gohan. Do you guys think he trained in the afterlife?
Nothing was ever implied he did but then again a Goku that was weaker than 10 gave him some trouble in Minus.

He might've but I don't think he'd improve too much even if he did. It wasn't implied that he had the same "I wanna fight strong guys" motivation as Goku, so I don't think he'd have trained a lot. Plus, isn't that what the filler from the end of the DB Anime implied as well?

Him having trouble against 10y/o Goku... well, you could say it was similar to Baby Pan vs Future Trunks from Super, where Pan was able to give Trunks a lot of trouble.

I still think he's stronger than Tao, but by a very, very slight margin if we go by actual battle power numbers.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:20 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:Speaking of Gohan. Do you guys think he trained in the afterlife?
Nothing was ever implied he did but then again a Goku that was weaker than 10 gave him some trouble in Minus.
He might've but I don't think he'd improve too much even if he did. It wasn't implied that he had the same "I wanna fight strong guys" motivation as Goku, so I don't think he'd have trained a lot. Plus, isn't that what the filler from the end of the DB Anime implied as well?

Him having trouble against 10y/o Goku... well, you could say it was similar to Baby Pan vs Future Trunks from Super, where Pan was able to give Trunks a lot of trouble.

I still think he's stronger than Tao, but by a very, very slight margin if we go by actual battle power numbers.

I'm starting to think that he and Ox King are really stronger than Roshi in the beginning of the series. It's never said Gohan trained while dead.

Roshi's body is really weak at that time when you think about it. My theory is that he needs his Full power form (It's even on the name!) to match the power he had while young. After training for the 22nd TB he can access more of that power while in his normal state and his Full power form is now many times stronger (explaining his RoF fights). He didn't use that form against Piccolo because he still can't control it very well at that time.

I'm thinking something like this.

Roshi [Piccolo Daimao's attack]: 120
-- Max power in prime: 180
-- 21st TB: 32
-- Full power form: 180
-- 22nd TB: 139
-- Full power form: 782

Master Shen [Piccolo Daimao's attack]: 80
-- 22nd TB: 120

Gohan: 75
Ox King: 40

GreatSaiyaman123 · Post by **GreatSaiyaman123** » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:34 am

Considering Future Dabura is SPC level, how strong should be SSJ/SSJ2 Z Sword Trunks?

emperior · Post by **emperior** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:27 am

Multipliers
Oozaru - 10x
Super Saiyan (SSJ) - 50x
Super Saiyan 2 (SSJ2) - 100x
Super Saiyan 3 (SSJ3) - 400x
Super Saiyan God (SSG) - 40,000x

Multipliers post SSG absorption
Super Saiyan (SSJ) - 50x
Super Saiyan 2 (SSJ2) - 100x
Super Saiyan 3 (SSJ3) - 400x
Super Saiyan God (SSG) - 400x
Super Saiyan Blue (SSB) - 500x

Dragon Ball Minus

[spoiler]Jaco - 150
Bardock - 2,500
Gine - 1,000

Bardock (Last Stand) - 10,000[/spoiler]

Dragon Ball Z

Spoiler:

Dragon Ball Super Power Levels

Spoiler:

Bullza · Post by **Bullza** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:03 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:Considering Future Dabura is SPC level, how strong should be SSJ/SSJ2 Z Sword Trunks?

I have him being exactly as strong as Gohan once he learned to master the sword in the same way. So stronger than both Goku and Vegeta because Goku while he could swing the sword couldn't do it as smoothly.

I also have Dabura in general being Super Perfect Cell level, at least too.

Noah · Post by **Noah** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:41 pm

Do you guys have a multiplier to Golden Oozaru? Probably higher than SSJ3 isn't?

DanielSSJ · Post by **DanielSSJ** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:19 pm

Noah wrote:Do you guys have a multiplier to Golden Oozaru? Probably higher than SSJ3 isn't?

I think it's just 10x their strongest Super Saiyan transformation. For Goku, it's 4,000x. For Vegeta, it's 1,000x.

Alruneia · Post by **Alruneia** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:37 pm

Noah wrote:Do you guys have a multiplier to Golden Oozaru? Probably higher than SSJ3 isn't?

Well, GT isn't really something I've looked into, but I have Golden Oozaru = SSJ1 Oozaru = x50*10 = x500. So yeah, it is higher than SSJ3.

emperior · Post by **emperior** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:42 am

Noah wrote:Do you guys have a multiplier to Golden Oozaru? Probably higher than SSJ3 isn't?

It should be 500x (10x Oozaru x 50x SSJ)
SSJ4 would be 1000x (I always saw it like that)

The gr · Post by **The gr** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:31 pm

Here's my new series,the evolution of battle power, here I'm going to detail a character battle power throughout the years, starting with

Son goku [spoiler] Dragon Ball

emperor pilaf Saga:10, oozaru:100

21 Budokai:70, oozaru:700

red ribbon army:80, after training with korin:140

22 Budokai:180

piccolo daimao saga:260

23 Budokai: weighted:300,no weights:380[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Dragon Ball z part 1

Saiyan Saga: with weights:334, with out the weights:416

his fight with Vegeta:8,000, kaioken x2:16,000,X3:24,000,x4:32,000

arrival at namek:90,000, kaioken x2:180,000

the battle with frieza,zenkai:3,000,000, kaioken x10:30,000,000,x20:60,000,000, super Saiyan:150,000,000[/spoiler]

[spoiler] Dragon Ball z part 2

the mecha frieza Saga:3,600,000, super Saiyan:180,000,000

The cell games:39,600,000, Super Saiyan:1,980,000,000

The majin Buu saga:50,000,000, super Saiyan:2,500,000,000, super Saiyan 2:5,000,000,000, super Saiyan 3:20,000,000,000[/spoiler]

so what's your opinion,I didn't include DBS, since that show is difficult to scale, but I put Base goku, during his first encounter to Beerus 70,000,000

Kanzenshuu

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