Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:14 pm

As others have said. I also have my list to accomodate Gohan as both SSJ and SSJ2, I only have him as SSJ since that's how it was shown as well as Goku's surprise for Vegeta's SSJ2, also Goku never sensed Super Perfect Cell since he was dead. Although that doesn't mean he can't be a SSJ2 against Dabura.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:36 pm

Bullza wrote:Despite what was may or may not have been said I do have Gohan as using Super Saiyan 2 against Dabura.

Reason being is I think Dabura is stronger than Cell. Goku did say that he was as strong as Cell, people assume he's talking about a specific form but surely they'd just mean the Cell as we last saw him. Then he later said he was tougher than he thought.

The other reason is, in the Dragon Ball Super manga, Super Saiyan Future Trunks who unlike Gohan did not slack off on his training and had infact mastered the Z Sword too and could easily be stronger than Buu saga Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta (especially as his SSJ2 equaled Goku's SSJ3) was no match for Dabura.

So when Goku and Vegeta were saying he wasn't much and they could handle him and what not they had to be referring to if they used Super Saiyan 2.
100% agree. It doesn't make a lick of sense for Gohan to be a regular Super Saiyan in that fight.

Goku's comparison should be enough. Dabura is stronger than Perfect Cell since that's the last form Goku saw.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:36 pm

I'm interested in your guys opinions on the 22nd World Tournament.

Would Jackie Chun be above or below Goku using his Tournament level power?

For now I have Goku at being higher because when he did that side step thing before he beat Krillin, Jackie Chun couldn't even see him.

But Jackie Chun couldn't have been too far off from Tien, he gave him a good fight even when he wasn't using his full power.

Edit: I can answer my own question. I just checked and Roshi does say that Goku may have surpassed him already and that was before he knew we about the Battle level strength. So yeah Goku is probably just a little stronger get with his Tournament strength.

Roshi should be stronger than the Fortune Teller Baba Saga Goku though.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:11 pm

Bullza wrote:I'm interested in your guys opinions on the 22nd World Tournament.

Would Jackie Chun be above or below Goku using his Tournament level power?

For now I have Goku at being higher because when he did that side step thing before he beat Krillin, Jackie Chun couldn't even see him.

But Jackie Chun couldn't have been too far off from Tien, he gave him a good fight even when he wasn't using his full power.

I have this

Goku (Battle Power) - 165
Tien - 165
Goku (Tournament Power) - 150
Jackie Chun - 139
Goku would be stronger, Roshi acknowledged that Goku had surpassed him before Goku used his true power.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:01 am

Bullza wrote:I'm interested in your guys opinions on the 22nd World Tournament.

Would Jackie Chun be above or below Goku using his Tournament level power?

For now I have Goku at being higher because when he did that side step thing before he beat Krillin, Jackie Chun couldn't even see him.

But Jackie Chun couldn't have been too far off from Tien, he gave him a good fight even when he wasn't using his full power.

Edit: I can answer my own question. I just checked and Roshi does say that Goku may have surpassed him already and that was before he knew we about the Battle level strength. So yeah Goku is probably just a little stronger get with his Tournament strength.

Roshi should be stronger than the Fortune Teller Baba Saga Goku though.
Yeah, Goku's Tournament level is stronger than Roshi. Here are my numbers for them:

Roshi - 139

Goku (Tournament Level) - 142

Goku (Battle Level) - 150 (probably a bit less)

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Black Hawk » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:06 am

I arbitrarily decided to redo my GT battle powers.

MULTIPLIERS

Saiyajin - x25 (for Gokū, Gohan, Vegeta, and Baby) x1 (for all other Saiyajin)
Super Saiyajin - x50
Super Saiyajin 2 - x100
Super Saiyajin 3 - x400
Super Oozaru - x500 (for Baby) x5000 (for Gokū and Vegeta)
Super Saiyajin 4 - x5000
Chō Full Power Saiyajin 4 - x10000
Metamarū Merging - x10 (assuming both powers are equal)
Potara Merging - x100 (assuming both powers are equal, less of a boost the less equal)

BABY ARC
[spoiler]Son Gokū - 30,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 60,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 2 - 120,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 3 - 480,000,000,000
-Super Oozaru - 6,000,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 4 - 6,000,000,000,000

Pan - 50,000,000

Trunks - 100,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 5,000,000,000

Son Goten - 100,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 5,000,000,000

Gotenks (hypothetical) - 1,000,000,000
-Super Saiyaijn - 50,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 2 - 100,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 3 - 400,000,000,000

Piccolo - 5,000,000,000

Son Gohan - 500,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 1,000,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 2 - 2,000,000,000,000

Vegeta - 25,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 50,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 2 - 100,000,000,000

Majin Boo - 10,000,000,000

Oob - 30,000,000,000
-After Training - 300,000,000,000
-Merged with Boo - 3,000,000,000,000

Rild - 20,000,000,000
-Hyper Mega Rild - 40,000,000,000
-Mega Rild - 80,000,000,000

Vegeta-Baby - 10,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 500,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 2 - 1,000,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 3 - 4,000,000,000,000
-Super Ōzaru - 5,000,000,000,000[/spoiler]

SUPER NO. 17 ARC
[spoiler]Son Gokū - 35,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 70,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 2 - 140,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 3 - 560,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 4 - 7,000,000,000,000

Vegeta - 30,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 60,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 2 - 120,000,000,000

Son Gohan - 500,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 1,000,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 2 - 2,000,000,000,000

Trunks - 100,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 5,000,000,000

Son Goten - 100,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 5,000,000,000

Gotenks (hypothetical) - 1,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 50,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 2 - 100,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 3 - 400,000,000,000

Oob - 3,000,000,000,000

No. 17 - 400,000,000
-Hell Fighter No. 17 - 40,000,000,000
-Super No. 17 - 8,000,000,000,000[/spoiler]

EVIL DRAGONS ARC

[spoiler]Son Gokū - 40,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 80,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 2 - 160,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 3 - 640,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 4 - 8,000,000,000,000
-Chō Full Power Saiyajin 4 - 16,000,000,000,000

Vegeta - 40,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 80,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 2 - 160,000,000,000
-Super Ōzaru - 8,000,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 4 - 8,000,000,000,000

Son Gohan - 500,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 1,000,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 2 - 2,000,000,000,000

Trunks - 100,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 5,000,000,000

Son Goten - 100,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 5,000,000,000

Pan - 50,000,000

Oob - 3,000,000,000,000

Four Star Dragon - 7,500,000,000,000

Three Star Dragon - 7,500,000,000,000

One Star Dragon - 10,000,000,000,000
-Super One Star Dragon* - 20,000,000,000,000
-Super One Star Dragon** - 100,000,000,000,000

Gogeta - 400,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin - 800,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 2 - 1,600,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 3 - 6,400,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 4* - 80,000,000,000,000
-Super Saiyajin 4** - 800,000,000,000,000

*based on Gohan-kun's statement that Chō Full Power Saiyajin 4 Gokū and Super One Star Dragon were too close in power for him to determine who was stronger
**based on Super One Star Dragon's statement that he had grown ten times stronger, if not more-so, by swallowing the other six Dragon Balls[/spoiler]
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Kick my ass? I'm world-class and Super Saiyan now."

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:56 am

Bullza wrote:I'm interested in your guys opinions on the 22nd World Tournament.

Would Jackie Chun be above or below Goku using his Tournament level power?

For now I have Goku at being higher because when he did that side step thing before he beat Krillin, Jackie Chun couldn't even see him.

But Jackie Chun couldn't have been too far off from Tien, he gave him a good fight even when he wasn't using his full power.

Edit: I can answer my own question. I just checked and Roshi does say that Goku may have surpassed him already and that was before he knew we about the Battle level strength. So yeah Goku is probably just a little stronger get with his Tournament strength.

Roshi should be stronger than the Fortune Teller Baba Saga Goku though.
I think Roshi was surprised with Goku's strenght as a teenager, and still far from his prime, while Roshi's prime was a long time ago.
His Match level is much weaker than his Battle level. He went from being stomped by Ten to fighting toe to toe with a slightly advantage in brute force.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Rubens » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:04 am

If I recall correctly, Jackie Chun/Muten Roshi slightly bulked up when he got serious against Tenshinhan. I think his power of 139 applies to his initial, relaxed state, and it should be a bit higher when bulked up but still slightly weaker than Tenshinhan. Tournament strength Goku was weaker than Tenshinhan aswell and got beaten about the same way as Jackie Chun but the fact that Goku held his own better suggests it's a little bit higher than Roshi's 139.

Also I would like to add that at first neither Tsuru-seninn (Crane hermit) nor Muten Roshi believed Goku could have beaten Tao Pai Pai, but as soon as Goku went serious against Krillin (the "full power" tournament strength) and easily defeated Krillin, then they believed it. I assume his tournament strength is fairly stronger than Tao Pai Pai and by extension, a bit higher than his own power against the assassin.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:24 am

Well that can somewhat lead me to my next question.

How do 22nd World Tournament Krillin and Yamcha (who are meant to be on a similar level) compare to Goku Post Korin training and Mercenary Tao?

Are they weaker than Tao if he's still held in such high regard and Goku was only seen as being superior after he got serious against Krillin?

But then it'd be a little weird that they'd even bother competing at all if they didn't think they'd surpassed Goku as they saw him in the Fortune Teller Baba saga.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:27 am

Bullza wrote:Well that can somewhat lead me to my next question.

How do 22nd World Tournament Krillin and Yamcha (who meant to be on a similar level) compare to Goku Post Korin training and Mercenary Tao?

Are they weaker than Tao if he's still held in such high regard and Goku was only seen as being superior after he got serious against Krillin?

But then it'd be a little weird that they'd even bother competing at all if they didn't think they'd surpassed Goku as they saw him in the Fortune Teller Baba saga.
They couldn't see Goku's movements, when he was serious, so them thinking they stand any chance against Goku would only be based on guesswork.
I have them at the same level and weaker than Tao Pai Pai.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:52 pm

Bullza wrote:Well that can somewhat lead me to my next question.

How do 22nd World Tournament Krillin and Yamcha (who are meant to be on a similar level) compare to Goku Post Korin training and Mercenary Tao?

Are they weaker than Tao if he's still held in such high regard and Goku was only seen as being superior after he got serious against Krillin?

But then it'd be a little weird that they'd even bother competing at all if they didn't think they'd surpassed Goku as they saw him in the Fortune Teller Baba saga.
Krillin and Yamcha should be stronger than Tao. I don't know why some people think they are weaker.

First, as you said, they already saw Goku's strenght in Baba's palace. For them wanting to participate, they should already surpass that Goku.

Second, Goku complimented Krillin. Goku said that he was having fun with the match. It would be impossible for Krillin to be weaker than Tao, if this Goku that is way way stronger than the one before is having fun with the match, and had the need to compliment Krillin.

And finally, there's King Chappa. Some people think that Chappa is weaker than Tao, but I don't see why that's the case. Roshi and Yamcha were worried that Goku might have a tough fight against Chappa, and they saw him back in Baba's palace. That means that Chappa should be like around the same level, if not stronger, than Baba arc Goku. With Krillin and Yamcha obviously beings stronger than Chappa, that means that they have to be stronger than Tao obviously.

Just because Goku was using match level against Krillin, it doesn't mean at all that Krillin is weaker than Tao. Roshi even said that he was probably surpassed by that same Goku, and Roshi is way stronger than Tao! Tao < Krillin < Roshi < Match Goku < Battle Goku is stated.

Here are my levels:

Tao - 85

Goku (Baba arc) - 95

Chappa - 100

Chiaotzu - 105

Yamcha - 110

Krillin - 110

Tsuru - 120

Roshi - 139

Goku (Match level) - 142

Tien/Goku (Battle level) - between 145 and 150

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:06 am

Alright so here's the Mk 2 version of my Dragon Ball power levels. Last time people pointed out several useful things and with the questions I've asked over the past few days I've made quite a few changes.

Emperor Pilaf Saga

Goku – 35
Oozaru Goku – 350

Yamcha – 32
Krillin – 31

Tournament Saga

Goku – 70
Oozaru Goku – 700

Jackie Chun – 74
Krillin – 63
Yamcha – 58

Namu – 65
Giran – 63
Ranfan – 58
Bacterian – 56

Red Ribbon Army Saga

Goku – 75
Goku (Post Korin Training) – 105
Krillin – 63

Major Metallitron – 68
General Blue – 66
Mercenary Tao – 96
Assistant Black – 71
Assistant Black (Battle Jacket) – 95

Korin – 110

Fortuneteller Baba Saga

Goku – 105
Krillin – 63
Yamcha – 58

Grandpa Gohan – 97
Devil man – 88
Bandages – 80
Invisible Man – 52
Fangs – 48

Tien Shinhan Saga

Goku (Tournament Power) – 142
Goku (Battle Power) – 158
Jackie Chun – 139 
Krillin – 128
Yamcha – 122

Tien – 152
Chiaotzu – 118
Master Shen – 130

King Chappa - 116

King Piccolo Saga

Goku – 158
Goku (Post Water) – 202
Tien – 152
Yajirobe – 135

King Piccolo (Old) – 178
King Piccolo – 202
Drum – 167
Tambourine – 145
Cymbal - 122

Kami – 292 
Mr Popo – 265 

Piccolo Jr Saga

Goku – 388
Kami – 292 
Tien – 238
Krillin – 195
Yamcha – 168
Chiaotzu –142

Piccolo Jr – 370
Mercenary Tao – 156


So yeah once again if anything stands out as being wrong or something I missed or should be changed feel free to point it out so I can keep on improving it.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:17 pm

Any particular reason why you have Goku at 35 in the beginning? If you use the official 10 power level then you can make the gaps bigger later on. They are to small in the Piccolo Daimao arc for example.

There's also the issue that it was stated that Goku's power increased by many times thanks to Korin's training, so he should be at least twice as strong there.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:24 am

ZombieVito wrote:Any particular reason why you have Goku at 35 in the beginning? If you use the official 10 power level then you can make the gaps bigger later on. They are to small in the Piccolo Daimao arc for example.

There's also the issue that it was stated that Goku's power increased by many times thanks to Korin's training, so he should be at least twice as strong there.
It all comes down to the power levels given in Dragon Ball Z. Roshi was at 139 and Tien was at 250 so it's trying to fit everything from 22nd Budokai Goku using his Match level power to 23rd Budokai Goku with his Weights inbetween 139 and 250.

Roshi was supposed to have retired so he shouldn't be that much stronger than he was at the 22nd Budokai if at all, he could be weaker. There's no room to have Goku be stronger than that and then get many times stronger and still be below 250.

The only way of working around it would be if Roshi was much stronger in the Saiyan Saga than the 22nd Budokai and that would be odd if he's retired and wasn't shown to do any training.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:14 am

Multipliers
Super Saiyan (SSJ) - 50x
Super Saiyan 2 (SSJ2) - 100x
Super Saiyan 3 (SSJ3) - 400x
Super Saiyan Blue (SSB) - 10,000x

Dragon Ball Minus


[spoiler]Jaco - 150
Bardock - 2,500
Gine - 1,000

Bardock (Last Stand) - 10,000[/spoiler]


Dragon Ball Z

Dragon Ball Super Power Levels

悟 “Vincit qui se vincit”

What I consider canonical

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:13 pm

Bullza wrote:power levels.
If my suggestions are welcome:

Why do you have Krillin so far beyond an average human? He was called worthless by his bullies and he could not run 100m in less than 10 seconds.

Also, it seems Yamcha improved a bit too much to believe, while training on his own. He was defeated by Jackie Chun waving his hand. He should be lower.

Not a fan of seeing king Chappa so high, when Goku while using far less power than he used against Krillin easily defeatedhim while barely trying, and Tao was still hyped more than Chappa ever was.

Yajirobe and Tien seem to look a bit too weak for matching Goku at his best.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:59 pm

apex_pretador wrote:Why do you have Krillin so far beyond an average human? He was called worthless by his bullies and he could not run 100m in less than 10 seconds.
That's a good point actually. I'll have to lower the characters in the Pilaf saga further.
Not a fan of seeing king Chappa so high, when Goku while using far less power than he used against Krillin easily defeatedhim while barely trying, and Tao was still hyped more than Chappa ever was.
Was it said that Goku used less power against King Chappa than Krillin? Are you referring to Goku saying he held back against Chappa so he didn't kill him but said he wouldn't hold back against Krillin?

Tao was still hyped but as it was mentioned a few posts up. Goku beat Tao without too much effort. Roshi saw how strong he he'd become. He then went and trained for 3 years so Roshi would have expected him to get a lot stronger but still was unsure if he'd beat King Chappa so he should be stronger than Tao.

Edit: Oh I think I also had him high because Yamcha said he didn't think anyone could beat Chappa so easily which should include himself so shouldn't that mean that Goku in the preliminary was stronger than Yamcha and also Krillin who was said to be of a similar level?
Yajirobe and Tien seem to look a bit too weak for matching Goku at his best.
Yajirobe might be a bit too low I put him closer to Goku's match power because he didn't seem serious like when he fought Tambourine and when Yajirobe wanted no part of him if he was like that.

You think he should be higher than Tambourine?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:27 pm

Bullza wrote: That's a good point actually. I'll have to lower the characters in the Pilaf saga further.
I'm not sure why you don't just use Goku's official battle power for that arc.
Was it said that Goku used less power against King Chappa than Krillin? Are you referring to Goku saying he held back against Chappa so he didn't kill him but said he wouldn't hold back against Krillin?

Tao was still hyped but as it was mentioned a few posts up. Goku beat Tao without too much effort. Roshi saw how strong he he'd become. He then went and trained for 3 years so Roshi would have expected him to get a lot stronger but still was unsure if he'd beat King Chappa so he should be stronger than Tao.

Edit: Oh I think I also had him high because Yamcha said he didn't think anyone could beat Chappa so easily which should include himself so shouldn't that mean that Goku in the preliminary was stronger than Yamcha and also Krillin who was said to be of a similar level?
Given that no one can actually gauge one's strength through Ki sensing yet, Yamcha and Jackie Chun are probably basing their estimations of Chappa's strength by his fearsome reputation rather than first hand knowledge.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by VegetaSSJBlue » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:34 pm

DanielSSJ wrote:
Bullza wrote: That's a good point actually. I'll have to lower the characters in the Pilaf saga further.
I'm not sure why you don't just use Goku's official battle power for that arc.
Goku >> Yamcha >> Kuririn >>>>>>>>>>>> Vídel >> Satan >> Average human (5)

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:24 am

VegetaSSJBlue wrote:Goku >> Yamcha >> Kuririn >>>>>>>>>>>> Vídel >> Satan >> Average human (5)
Battle power is just a numerical measurement of Ki, and Ki wasn't the deciding factor in fights back in the day. Goku may possess twice as much Ki as a regular person, but his physical strength far surpasses that thanks to his extra tough Saiyan biology. In comparison, Muten Roshi is a centuries old Hermit and probably has a lot in the ways of Ki-based power, but he's still a (relatively) frail old man, which is why Goku was able to push that boulder further than him.
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