Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:36 am

LightBing wrote:
By the way, since we're talking about the Saiyan Arc.
Where do you guys have:

Piccolo - 2600
Tenshinhan - 1650
Yamcha - 1300
Kuririn - 1600
Yajirobe - less than 1000
Chiaotzu - less than 1000
Gohan(including Oozaru) - 981 , 1100 , Ozaru 6000
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:50 am

DanielSSJ wrote:
If you want an actual argument for the 4,000 number, there is the fact that at the end of Goku's and Nappa's confrontation Goku was completely uninjured. Seeing how Nappa failed to hit Goku even once, even after calming down, their not gonna be terribly close. Heck, Gohan, Kuririn, and Piccolo were all able to score hits and deal visible damage to Nappa earlier in the Saiyan arc, and they weren't close to him at all. Sure is was superficial damage, but it was damage. That's better than what Nappa accomplished against Goku, aka nothing. As far as Vegeta letting Nappa fight Goku despite knowing Goku has a superior battle power, I write that off as Vegeta, who does not care about Nappa, using the fight to gauge Goku's strength and observe his fighting style, and possibly hoping that Goku tires himself out so he'll be less of a threat once Nappa falls.
Be honest with yourself, stop thinking about numbers for a moment , close your eyes & ask yourself - do you really think that Nappa was closer to piccolo than goku? I'm not saying that nappa is on same level as goku, but you really thing manga implies piccolo to be closer to nappa than goku?

Piccolo couldn't do any damage to nappa, while nappa, after fighting all day , was able to worry goku with his best attack, who needed to counter it quickly with a kamehameha (even uncharged, it was still KHH).

Context: after Kuririn’s ki blast doesn’t faze Nappa or Vegeta
Kuririn: “I…I did that at full-power!!! So this is what Saiyans are!!”
Tenshinhan: “The ground!!! The ground’s shaking!!!”
Chaozu: “Ten!!! My powers don’t work!!!”
Piccolo: “I never thought it would be so much!!!”
Everyone, especially piccolo, is astonished of nappa's power.
Chapter: 217 (DBZ 23), P7.6
Context: after Nappa beats up on Tenshinhan
Piccolo: “Wh-what power…!”
See how shocked is piccolo. Nappa is not near him.
Chapter: Chapter 218(DBZ 24), P14.3
Context: after Nappa isn’t injured by Tenshinhan’s Kikoho
Piccolo: “He-he’s a damn monster…”

Chapter: Chapter 219(DBZ 25), P1.2
Context: still after Nappa isn’t hurt by the Kikoho
Piccolo: “It…it can’t be…Is h-he immortal…!?”
I think these quotes are more than enough to prove that piccolo isn't even close to nappa
Chapter: Chapter 219(DBZ 25), P3.3-5
Kuririn: “…You have a li…little confidence that we’ll win, right?”
Piccolo: “I have none…! I didn’t think they’d be this monstrous…They’re far greater than the Saiyan who came before…”
No confidence. I think Manga speaks bigger than guidebooks.

Chapter: 226 (DBZ 32), P7.4/P8.1-4
Context: after Goku deflects Nappa's mouth blast
Vegeta: “Unbelievable!! To instantly deflect it at that short of a distance!”
Goku: “Phew. If I had taken that one head on, I’d have been in trouble!!”
Vegeta, who has seen goku is seemingly "over 8000" and has showed in this fight so far that the reading was correct, was shoched that "over 8000" goku can easily deflect it with his attack.
Goku says he'd be in trouble if he took it head on.

Chapter: 221 (DBZ 27), P1-2
Context: Piccolo grabs Nappa's tail, but Nappa is unfazed and elbows him in the head
Nappa: “That’s too bad...Even the greatest masters on this planet get reduced to this after just one blow.”
Nappa can one-shot piccolo
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Khin » Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:52 am

LightBing wrote: By the way, since we're talking about the Saiyan Arc.
Where do you guys have:
Piccolo : 2,500 - 3,500 (Still not sure)
Tenshinhan : 1,830
Yamcha : 1,480
Kuririn : 1,770
Yajirobe : 970
Chaozu : 610
Gohan(including Oozaru) : 981
-- Masenko//Against Vegeta : 2,800
-- Oozaru (Injured) : 5,000

I see no reason to change the official power levels for them except for Piccolo when there's nothing that contradicts it.
Analytic wrote:I never got to reply to this post before the thread was locked, so I would like to reply here if that is okay.

- Vegeta didn't remind Nappa, he thought it to himself. And even if he did say it to Nappa, why would that mean Nappa didn't already expect 5,000 to not be Son Goku's max? He himself saw that the Z-fighters hide their power and had it explicitly said to him by Vegeta before. It's not something new to him.

- His reaction was really not that different from Nappa's.

- So did Nappa.
- You seem to act like Nappa is a smart dude.This is the same guy who didn't even know the attack potency of Kienzan and almost got killed by it.Heck,even after knowing that the earthlings can change their ki at will.He was still dumb enough to think that the surpressed PL of Piccolo,Gohan and Kuririn is there full power.
Chapter: 214 (DBZ 20), P4.3-5
Nappa: “981... 1,220... 1,083... Idiots! Do you really plan on defying us with that level of battle power...?!"
- How does that make the reaction the same as Nappa ? That line just pointed out that Vegeta is aware that the earthlings may have a chance to beat them when Goku arrived.In Nappa's case he was scared of Goku because of his Power.

- And Goku debunked that smile.That is a bragging/nervous smile,not a confident one like Vegeta has.
Chapter: 225 (DBZ 31), P1.2
Goku: “You may brag a lot, but you’re nothing special.”

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:56 am

A list with the final villain having 120 million for each arc :

Dragon ball:
Saiyan to Freeza arc:

See signature. Same as my official list.

Android arc:
Buu arc:
Gold freeza arc:
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:14 pm

Be honest with yourself, stop thinking about numbers for a moment , close your eyes & ask yourself - do you really think that Nappa was closer to piccolo than goku? I'm not saying that nappa is on same level as goku, but you really thing manga implies piccolo to be closer to nappa than goku?

Piccolo couldn't do any damage to nappa, while nappa, after fighting all day , was able to worry goku with his best attack, who needed to counter it quickly with a kamehameha (even uncharged, it was still KHH).
Yes, Nappa's best attack was strong enough to make Goku sweet a bit. However, the same could be said about how Goku's and Piccolo's best attacks were enough to scare Raditz. Heck, Piccolo's attack is what killed (an admittedly weakened) Raditz. And please don't say that Nappa and Vegeta can't concentrate their Ki for attacks, because Vegeta's Galick Gun was able to match Goku's 3x Kamehameha, despite how Vegeta's overall strength was weaker the a Kaioken x3 boosted Goku's. As far as how Piccolo stacks up against Nappa goes, there are other points in the series, specifically the Freeza arc, where a fighter is able to have a crushing victory over another with a small power gap. See Vegeta vs. Dodoria and Vegeta vs. untransformed Zarbon.
Though, If I were to ignore numbers, I'd say the gap between Piccolo and Nappa is probably about the same as the one between Nappa and Goku. Then again, my opinion on gaps is that if A is stronger than B, then A is more likely to win, since that's probably the only thought that Toriyama put in when coming up with power levels as a concept.

Anyway, since I doubt that I'll be able to convince you, and I know you aren't going to convince me, and that all we're probably gonna accomplish is repeat the same agreements over and over again, make the other mad, and take up pages of forum space, let's drop this topic and agree to disagree.

On to other business, how strong do you guys think Dabra is? I've seen him placed as high as above Perfect Cell or as low as being under Super Saiyan Gohan. Go ahead, i want to see your opinions.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:20 pm

DanielSSJ wrote:On to other business, how strong do you guys think Dabra is? I've seen him placed as high as above Perfect Cell or as low as being under Super Saiyan Gohan. Go ahead, i want to see your opinions.
Gohan's got no characteristics of SSJ2 at all present in the manga, plus Kibito says (at least in the Viz manga) while healing him that Gohan's not back to full power. Given how confident and casual both Goku and Vegeta are about their odds at beating Dabra along with Gohan being weaker than his child self, I'd say he's anywhere between Goku at the Cell games to max power regular Cell. Though I personally have him on the lower end of that spectrum.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:23 pm

If Gohan is a Super Saiyan - Stronger than the Suppressed Cell that Goku fought.
If Gohan is a Super Saiyan 2 - Stronger than the Power Weighted Cell that Gohan easily smashed.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:41 pm

DanielSSJ wrote: On to other business, how strong do you guys think Dabra is? I've seen him placed as high as above Perfect Cell or as low as being under Super Saiyan Gohan. Go ahead, i want to see your opinions.
I put him a bit above perfect cell.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:49 pm

I generally go with Dabra being as strong as regular perfect Cell, and that he was holding back in his first fight against Gohan. Seeing how he's confident at beating Gohan a bit later into the arc.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:32 pm

DanielSSJ wrote:On to other business, how strong do you guys think Dabra is? I've seen him placed as high as above Perfect Cell or as low as being under Super Saiyan Gohan. Go ahead, i want to see your opinions.
I think Dabra is less powerful than Super Saiyan Gohan, but he has a bunch of techniques that come handy in battle, which is something Gohan lacks. If the fight between them had continued on without intervention, I think Dabra would have beat Gohan.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:55 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
DanielSSJ wrote:On to other business, how strong do you guys think Dabra is? I've seen him placed as high as above Perfect Cell or as low as being under Super Saiyan Gohan. Go ahead, i want to see your opinions.
I think Dabra is less powerful than Super Saiyan Gohan, but he has a bunch of techniques that come handy in battle, which is something Gohan lacks. If the fight between them had continued on without intervention, I think Dabra would have beat Gohan.

Agreed. He's not perfect cell tier because he got desperate on a rusty ssj2 Babidi saga gohan. His goal was to get energy, if he turned him to stone that wouldn't get buu energy, and I think a sword might not work as well either. Clearly dabura was getting desperate with that and the mind games. Gohan was stronger, who'd win is debatable because Gohan was doing so badly. But I think Gohan could nab a win. vegeta or Goku would steamroll Dabura. When people say Dabura > majin Vegeta I laugh.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:02 pm

DanielSSJ wrote: On to other business, how strong do you guys think Dabra is? I've seen him placed as high as above Perfect Cell or as low as being under Super Saiyan Gohan. Go ahead, i want to see your opinions.
Stronger than Perfect Cell and weaker than SSJ2 Gohan.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:07 pm

Zombie wrote:
DanielSSJ wrote: On to other business, how strong do you guys think Dabra is? I've seen him placed as high as above Perfect Cell or as low as being under Super Saiyan Gohan. Go ahead, i want to see your opinions.
Stronger than Perfect Cell and weaker than SSJ2 Gohan.

I put perfect cell>ssj2 teen gohan. it's just gohan 2x and if cell didn't use up so much energy fighting gohan and making cell jrs.....it'd be like broly. Ripepd to shreads torn apart, but together they're a thick phone book nobody can shread...well accept maybe mr satan.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:14 pm

DanielSSJ wrote:I generally go with Dabra being as strong as regular perfect Cell, and that he was holding back in his first fight against Gohan. Seeing how he's confident at beating Gohan a bit later into the arc.
I have him weaker than SSJ2 Kid Gohan but stronger than Perfect Cell and few notches below Super Perfect Cell.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Gorou » Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:59 pm

Vegeta says that Dabura would not be a enemy impossible to defeat, for them. Whereas realizes that Goku reached SSJ2 only after seeing him against Yakon, I get to the logical conclusion that, for him, it was not necessary the SSJ2 to beat Dabura.

Therefore, Dabura is on the Perfect Cell-tier.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:51 pm

Vegeta could just be talking from his own perspective, though. He does say "we" when talking about how they could've managed something against him outside. Gohan's included, so it sorta takes everyone into consideration. Dabra had yet to reveal his full-power.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Gorou » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:13 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Vegeta could just be talking from his own perspective, though. He does say "we" when talking about how they could've managed something against him outside. Gohan's included, so it sorta takes everyone into consideration. Dabra had yet to reveal his full-power.
Says expressly that for "they" he was not an invincible opponent, and most likely the result of his deductive analysis, regarding its possible strength, had to coincide with that of Goku (otherwise he would contradicted him).

So I assume, also relying on the SSJ's form that confronts him (in the manga) that it was on that level. Then, logically it does not work, i take note, but in fact all that part is objectively incongruent.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:58 am

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:- You seem to act like Nappa is a smart dude.
I never claimed that Nappa was "a smart dude." I only claimed that he had seen the Earthlings hide their true battle powers before and that the concept wasn't exactly new to him by the time he was told of Son Goku's 5,000 battle power.
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:This is the same guy who didn't even know the attack potency of Kienzan and almost got killed by it.
Difference being: Nappa knows about the Earthlings hiding their true power. There's nothing to say that Nappa would have any experience with an attack like the Kienzan.
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:Heck,even after knowing that the earthlings can change their ki at will.He was still dumb enough to think that the surpressed PL of Piccolo,Gohan and Kuririnis there full power.
Chapter: 214 (DBZ 20), P4.3-5
Nappa: “981... 1,220... 1,083... Idiots! Do you really plan on defying us with that level of battle power...?!"
Nappa said that before Vegeta told him that the Earthlings hide their true power, not after.
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:- How does that make the reaction the same as Nappa ? That line just pointed out that Vegeta is aware that the earthlings may have a chance to beat them when Goku arrived.In Nappa's case he was scared of Goku because of his Power.
The reaction is similar because both express shock and concern at Son Goku's power. Even later when Goku is powering up to 8,000, Vegeta has the same shocked/worried expression that Nappa did when he heard that Goku's approaching battle power was 5,000.
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:- And Goku debunked that smile.That is a bragging/nervous smile,not a confident one like Vegeta has.
Nappa doesn't seem nervous at all in the scan I posted. And what do you mean by Goku "debunked" that smile? Do you mean that he later powered up and easily defeated Nappa thus contradicting Nappa's confidence? Because by the same logic, I can say that Goku "debunked" Vegeta's confidence when he beat him up with Kaioken x3.
DanielSSJ wrote:On to other business, how strong do you guys think Dabra is? I've seen him placed as high as above Perfect Cell or as low as being under Super Saiyan Gohan. Go ahead, i want to see your opinions.
Marginally weaker than SS2 Son Gohan. Gohan forced Dabra to abandon hand-to-hand combat and resort to magic just to stay competitive. Even when he landed a clean shot on Gohan, Dabra failed to inflict any visual damage. Not only that, but Gohan also overpowered Dabra at quarters when he was able to break Dabra's sword.

Around Perfect Cell's tier sounds good to me. This is of course going by the belief that Son Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 when fighting Dabra.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ahill1 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:43 pm

Yajirobe - 800
Chaozu - 1,000
Son Gohan - 1,307
Yamcha - 1,350
Kuririn - 1,625
Tenshinhan - 1,750
Piccolo - 2,500


How powerful do you guys have Tenshinhan's Shin Kikoho (against Semi Cell)? Do you guys think it would have destroyed #17/#18/#16/Imperfect Cell?

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:20 pm

It would've wiped all of the Androids out.

Tien: 160,000
Neo Kikoho: 1,600,000,000
Semi-Cell: 2,400,000,000
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