Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Do you guys think its possible for untrained Super Saiyan's to lower their power output so they aren't always x50 their base or is that exclusive to Grade 4?
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Yes it does... Piccolo was surprised that Goku is already fighting near full power, that is, he expected Goku to not be near Full Power ( Supressed).SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:No it doesn't. Piccolo says Goku is putting out close to his full power, but his Ki should be far more stupendous. That has nothing to do with voluntarily suppressing Super Saiyan.ahill1 wrote:Of course it does... this proves the Saiyans could supress their powers before the Rosat.SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:No, it doesn't.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
He was "surprised" that Goku was so weak, which was because of his sick condition.ahill1 wrote:Piccolo was surprised that Goku is already fighting near full power, that is, he expected Goku to not be near Full Power ( Supressed).
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
piccolo was surprised because goku should be much stronger than even him, & he was dragging out the fight instead of destroying #19.SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:He was "surprised" that Goku was so weak, which was because of his sick condition.ahill1 wrote:Piccolo was surprised that Goku is already fighting near full power, that is, he expected Goku to not be near Full Power ( Supressed).
He was surprised on how weak his movements were.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Goku, just like Piccolo does and explains, makes his energy higher once he starts fighting in this point of the story. That's why No.20 understatimated him at first.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Something like what Gohan did against thieves in early Boo Arc? I believe he was pretty much supressed at that time, just using SSJ as a disguise.ekrolo2 wrote:Do you guys think its possible for untrained Super Saiyan's to lower their power output so they aren't always x50 their base or is that exclusive to Grade 4?
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Any idea how strong Olibu is?
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Either near the same level as Weighted Pikkon or weaker than Yamcha. Take your pick.ekrolo2 wrote:Any idea how strong Olibu is?
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Sure:ekrolo2 wrote:Any idea how strong Olibu is?
Cell < Olibu =< Weighted Paikuhan << Yamcha.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Does Cell have to be weaker than everyone? Weighted Paikuhan isn't a form, it's a supressed state, meaning that his power could vary depending on who he is fighting. Not to mention that he used a special technique against Cell to one-shot him. I'm also having a hard time believing that the weights made Paikuhan 50 times weaker than he really is, since he was fighting equally with base Goku.dbgtFO wrote:Sure:ekrolo2 wrote:Any idea how strong Olibu is?
Cell < Olibu =< Weighted Paikuhan << Yamcha.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Ginyu Force rivaling Cell... Yeah, shall I even continue? In no shape or form am I a Cell fan, but it's absolutely mind boggling that you would actually even compare the two; in case you forgot, the discussion was pertaining to Tagoma and Cell.Hugo Boss wrote:...Tagoma just assumed Gohan is the strongest. In fact, his reason is irrelevant for this topic. If you think Tagoma has properly analised Gohan's strength before attacking him, you are also speculating.supercat wrote:So we're disregarding the easiest and most straightforward route of Base Gohan > Piccolo and resorting to an unnecessarily complicated speculation because...?Hugo Boss wrote:Tagoma is probaly based on the fact that Gohan is a Saiyan, Goku's son and the one in charge, so Tagoma must have assumed Gohan is the strongest of the 5-men group. By the way, Gohan started weaker than Vegeta in Dragon Ball Super and is even weaker in F Arc.
I still don't see in any flaws in placing Shisami around Perfect Cell-tier and Tagoma around Super Perfect Cell / Majin Buu (initial). Don't you think that doing so would make a whole lot more sense than assuming that Piccolo magically dropped down to Zarbon-tier or Gohan was having trouble with someone barely above the Ginyu Force?
What does Vegeta have to do with any of this?
I don't have any problem with thinking Ginyu Force as having power comparable to perfect-form Cell, if you like. The fact is that Tagoma is the first soldier in Freeza's army to surpass Ginyu Force, Shisami didn't. Sorbet was well aware of Shisami's power, he just overlooked the fruits of Tagoma's training.
And, I just commented on Vegeta because you seem to think it's absurd to compare current Gohan to the one that fought Cell without SS2. Current Gohan can barely sustain SS and even if he could do it with no problem he is still weaker than Vegeta when he fought Boo.
Tagoma is the first to surpass the Ginyu Force... Can you point out one legitimate source that validates this? Here's the thing, nothing really contradicted Shisami far surpassing the Ginyus; his ability to deflect Gohan's attacks on the other hand works in his favor. Also, if we factor in FnF, let's not forget that he gave a Cell Jr- tier Piccolo a darn good fight. Hmmmmmmm.... I wonder if Zarbon or his equally useless buddy Dodoria could ever pull off either one of the things mentioned above. Yeah... Let's see what everyone else thinks.
Who says Gohan barely being able to sustain SSJ has anything to do with his power? How does that automatically make his SSJ form weaker than the power that he wielded during his Cell-busting days? Maybe that particular form of SSJ was so powerful (Ultimate Gohan-tier), that his untrained body was simply unable to hold it?
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I noticed both Yamcha and Chi-Chi were stronger than Krillin in their debuts. They were on par with tailed Goku... not as strong but were within his ballpark while Krillin was outclassed by tailless Goku. Chi-Chi casually outran a T-rex (of which top speed is 18-25 mph) then cut it's head off while Krillin was sweaty and tired from running 100 meters in 10.1/10.4 seconds. Yamcha was also trading blows with Goku only running away due to his looks being ruined and Chi-Chi spared evenly with Goku in a filler scene while Krillin was quickly overwhelmed by him in a brief scrap. Chi-Chi also nearly zapped Yamcha with her laser beam despite clearly telegraphing it at him a few seconds after being chased by a T-rex and survived a serious blow from him at the back of her head (which is a OHKO or possibly worse even on equal levels).
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
If you don't have any problem with paring Shisami with Cell Jr., it shouldn't baffle you placing Ginyu Force at the same category, if we are talking about Dragon Ball Super. I'm not trying to sound antagonistic here or bashing Dragon Ball Super, but you are just not paying attention to how the dialogue is handled in this case. You should consider reading the lines again.supercat wrote:Ginyu Force rivaling Cell... Yeah, shall I even continue? In no shape or form am I a Cell fan, but it's absolutely mind boggling that you would actually even compare the two; in case you forgot, the discussion was pertaining to Tagoma and Cell.
Tagoma is the first to surpass the Ginyu Force... Can you point out one legitimate source that validates this? Here's the thing, nothing really contradicted Shisami far surpassing the Ginyus; his ability to deflect Gohan's attacks on the other hand works in his favor. Also, if we factor in FnF, let's not forget that he gave a Cell Jr- tier Piccolo a darn good fight. Hmmmmmmm.... I wonder if Zarbon or his equally useless buddy Dodoria could ever pull off either one of the things mentioned above. Yeah... Let's see what everyone else thinks.
Who says Gohan barely being able to sustain SSJ has anything to do with his power? How does that automatically make his SSJ form weaker than the power that he wielded during his Cell-busting days? Maybe that particular form of SSJ was so powerful (Ultimate Gohan-tier), that his untrained body was simply unable to hold it?
Gohan's powerlevel in Dragon Ball Super is another headache, but I guess there is no tangible thing saying he is definetely weaker or stronger than when he defeated Cell. He is just definetely weaker than Vegeta when he fought Boo, because Vegeta is said to be the strongest Saiyan after Goku back then.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
While I agree on the Yamcha point, the thing with Chi-Chi is bogus. First off, Chi-Chi was NOT casually outrunning a T Rex. She was running for her life, and was probably running on adrenaline. Also, Dragon Ball is horribly inconsistent with feats of strength, speed, etc. so you shouldn't take those too seriously. And the filler scene of Goku sparring with Chi-Chi is just that, filler. Chi-Chi almost nailing Yamcha with a laser can be explained by Yamcha still surprised by seeing a crying girl kill a T Rex. I'm not saying that Kuririn can't be weaker than Chi-Chi(he is Gyumao's daughter after all), but your evidence doesn't hold much water.DBZAOTA482 wrote:I noticed both Yamcha and Chi-Chi were stronger than Krillin in their debuts. They were on par with tailed Goku... not as strong but were within his ballpark while Krillin was outclassed by tailless Goku. Chi-Chi casually outran a T-rex (of which top speed is 18-25 mph) then cut it's head off while Krillin was sweaty and tired from running 100 meters in 10.1/10.4 seconds. Yamcha was also trading blows with Goku only running away due to his looks being ruined and Chi-Chi spared evenly with Goku in a filler scene while Krillin was quickly overwhelmed by him in a brief scrap. Chi-Chi also nearly zapped Yamcha with her laser beam despite clearly telegraphing it at him a few seconds after being chased by a T-rex and survived a serious blow from him at the back of her head (which is a OHKO or possibly worse even on equal levels).
My Official Unofficial Battle Power list (in-progress: updated 11/8/2022—FREEZA ARC COMPLETED)
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
How this puts Chi Chi on par with tailed Goku?DBZAOTA482 wrote:I noticed both Yamcha and Chi-Chi were stronger than Krillin in their debuts. They were on par with tailed Goku... not as strong but were within his ballpark while Krillin was outclassed by tailless Goku. Chi-Chi casually outran a T-rex (of which top speed is 18-25 mph) then cut it's head off while Krillin was sweaty and tired from running 100 meters in 10.1/10.4 seconds. Yamcha was also trading blows with Goku only running away due to his looks being ruined and Chi-Chi spared evenly with Goku in a filler scene while Krillin was quickly overwhelmed by him in a brief scrap. Chi-Chi also nearly zapped Yamcha with her laser beam despite clearly telegraphing it at him a few seconds after being chased by a T-rex and survived a serious blow from him at the back of her head (which is a OHKO or possibly worse even on equal levels).
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I have never been one for power levels but I figured id dabble abit in them. Heres a few listings I find myself comfy with.
Base Goku (Buu/BOG) - 100 million
SSJ1 - 5 billion
SSJ2 - 10 billion
SSJ3 - 40 Billion
Gohan (Mystic/Ultimate/Chou/whatever) - 400 Billion
Super Vegetto - 160 trillion.
Base GT Goku - 40 billion
SSJ1 - 2 trillion
SSJ2 - 4 trillion
SSJ3 - 16 trillion
SSJ4 - 160 trillion
Base Goku (Buu/BOG) - 100 million
SSJ1 - 5 billion
SSJ2 - 10 billion
SSJ3 - 40 Billion
Gohan (Mystic/Ultimate/Chou/whatever) - 400 Billion
Super Vegetto - 160 trillion.
Base GT Goku - 40 billion
SSJ1 - 2 trillion
SSJ2 - 4 trillion
SSJ3 - 16 trillion
SSJ4 - 160 trillion
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
She was casually outrunning it. She was scared but she was running away from it pretty normally rather than someone running for their life frantically would. She even turned around and used her blade against it. Yamcha and Puar was even shocked by how much she can do despite being scared.DanielSSJ wrote:While I agree on the Yamcha point, the thing with Chi-Chi is bogus. First off, Chi-Chi was NOT casually outrunning a T Rex. She was running for her life, and was probably running on adrenaline. Also, Dragon Ball is horribly inconsistent with feats of strength, speed, etc. so you shouldn't take those too seriously. And the filler scene of Goku sparring with Chi-Chi is just that, filler. Chi-Chi almost nailing Yamcha with a laser can be explained by Yamcha still surprised by seeing a crying girl kill a T Rex. I'm not saying that Kuririn can't be weaker than Chi-Chi(he is Gyumao's daughter after all), but your evidence doesn't hold much water.DBZAOTA482 wrote:I noticed both Yamcha and Chi-Chi were stronger than Krillin in their debuts. They were on par with tailed Goku... not as strong but were within his ballpark while Krillin was outclassed by tailless Goku. Chi-Chi casually outran a T-rex (of which top speed is 18-25 mph) then cut it's head off while Krillin was sweaty and tired from running 100 meters in 10.1/10.4 seconds. Yamcha was also trading blows with Goku only running away due to his looks being ruined and Chi-Chi spared evenly with Goku in a filler scene while Krillin was quickly overwhelmed by him in a brief scrap. Chi-Chi also nearly zapped Yamcha with her laser beam despite clearly telegraphing it at him a few seconds after being chased by a T-rex and survived a serious blow from him at the back of her head (which is a OHKO or possibly worse even on equal levels).
And no, she screamed then openly stated she'd zap him and clearly telegraphed the beam at him. Regardless of how surprised he was at her feat... he still should a decent amount of time to have been react to her attempts to zap him.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Placing Ginyu Force in the same realm of power as Cell Jr... Yeah, I could see that this discussion really isn't going anywhere. Again, Tagoma surpassing Ginyu doesn't magically gift the latter with some insane power boost.Hugo Boss wrote:If you don't have any problem with paring Shisami with Cell Jr., it shouldn't baffle you placing Ginyu Force at the same category, if we are talking about Dragon Ball Super. I'm not trying to sound antagonistic here or bashing Dragon Ball Super, but you are just not paying attention to how the dialogue is handled in this case. You should consider reading the lines again.supercat wrote:Ginyu Force rivaling Cell... Yeah, shall I even continue? In no shape or form am I a Cell fan, but it's absolutely mind boggling that you would actually even compare the two; in case you forgot, the discussion was pertaining to Tagoma and Cell.
Tagoma is the first to surpass the Ginyu Force... Can you point out one legitimate source that validates this? Here's the thing, nothing really contradicted Shisami far surpassing the Ginyus; his ability to deflect Gohan's attacks on the other hand works in his favor. Also, if we factor in FnF, let's not forget that he gave a Cell Jr- tier Piccolo a darn good fight. Hmmmmmmm.... I wonder if Zarbon or his equally useless buddy Dodoria could ever pull off either one of the things mentioned above. Yeah... Let's see what everyone else thinks.
Who says Gohan barely being able to sustain SSJ has anything to do with his power? How does that automatically make his SSJ form weaker than the power that he wielded during his Cell-busting days? Maybe that particular form of SSJ was so powerful (Ultimate Gohan-tier), that his untrained body was simply unable to hold it?
Gohan's powerlevel in Dragon Ball Super is another headache, but I guess there is no tangible thing saying he is definetely weaker or stronger than when he defeated Cell. He is just definetely weaker than Vegeta when he fought Boo, because Vegeta is said to be the strongest Saiyan after Goku back then.
That dialogue that you keep resorting to over and over again, apparently didn't mention a specific gap between Tagoma and Ginyu. Why should the former barely be above the latter for it to make sense? Is it because Sorbet didn't drop Frieza's name as a benchmark? Do you really think that he would have the courage to even do such a thing?
Definitely weaker than Vegeta when he fought Buu... And how do you know that Vegeta didn't get stronger after the Buu arc? Do you really think the prideful prince of Saiyans just sat around all day doing nothing?
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
My tier list, that only covers the Z part of the story and the high tiers in DB Super:
Spoiler:
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Freeza is implied to be stronger than Ginyu Force. If Sorbet didn't use Freeza as benchmark, then of course he doesn't think Tagoma hasn't surpassed Freeza. This has nothing to do with having courage to say it, this is about what Sorbet states. Any other meaning behind that line only exists in speculation.supercat wrote:Placing Ginyu Force in the same realm of power as Cell Jr... Yeah, I could see that this discussion really isn't going anywhere. Again, Tagoma surpassing Ginyu doesn't magically gift the latter with some insane power boost.Hugo Boss wrote:If you don't have any problem with paring Shisami with Cell Jr., it shouldn't baffle you placing Ginyu Force at the same category, if we are talking about Dragon Ball Super. I'm not trying to sound antagonistic here or bashing Dragon Ball Super, but you are just not paying attention to how the dialogue is handled in this case. You should consider reading the lines again.
Gohan's powerlevel in Dragon Ball Super is another headache, but I guess there is no tangible thing saying he is definetely weaker or stronger than when he defeated Cell. He is just definetely weaker than Vegeta when he fought Boo, because Vegeta is said to be the strongest Saiyan after Goku back then.
That dialogue that you keep resorting to over and over again, apparently didn't mention a specific gap between Tagoma and Ginyu. Why should the former barely be above the latter for it to make sense? Is it because Sorbet didn't drop Freeza's name as a benchmark? Do you really think that he would have the courage to even do such a thing?
Definitely weaker than Vegeta when he fought Buu... And how do you know that Vegeta didn't get stronger after the Buu arc? Do you really think the prideful prince of Saiyans just sat around all day doing nothing?
And Dragon Ball Super shows an occasion where Vegeta trains under 150G gravity before Beerus went to Earth, but this training's stuff happens after Vegeta analizes his strength in Boo Arc. He hasn't been showed training since then, he was spending time with his family.
Last edited by Hugo Boss on Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:48 am, edited 3 times in total.