MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/1/24!)

[jcogginsa]

Cold does serve one function: He brings Freeza back into the story.

Given the state we saw Freeza in at the end of the Freeza arc, he'd need assistance to get back on his feet. Since he'd need new feet, etc.

It couldn't be one of his Henchmen, since most of them would be either too afraid to want him back, or too self-interested to want him back. Freeza isn't the type that people would fall in love with, and is unlikely to tolerate a gold digger riding his coat tails. So a family member is the only viable option.

While your correct that Kold being a king is a complication, it can still be explained. The most likely scenario is the King Kold rules their home planet, whilst Freeza runs the PTO as an independent body. Freeza is still the prince of the planet, but both of them understand who is really in charge

Worked OK in ROF.

I don't hate Kold, but the problem is his existence only brings more questions than answers. He looks a lot like his son, he says they have a clan etc. Is Kold a mutation of a race of now dead aliens? Is Freeza really the result of yet another asexual reproduction? Or is/was there a misses Kold? I kinda wish Toriyama would change his mind and confirm there are/was females in the race for variety sake.

In RoF, reviving Frieza was a hail mary last resort option by a guy who had barely interacted with Frieza

[MR.Mark]

What's the difference? If Toriyama wanted, Sorbe could of been how Freeza came to earth in the Cell arc and it wouldn't of affected anything. Cold provided Cell some more DNA, that's about it.

[jcogginsa]

What's the difference? If Toriyama wanted, Sorbe could of been how Freeza came to earth in the Cell arc and it wouldn't of affected anything. Cold provided Cell some more DNA, that's about it.

Because it's hardly last resort option if you don't even wait a year before going back to him

[Dbzfan94]

Look how much some fans hate Yamcha and cheered when Toriyama confirmed he DID cheat on Bulma and she wasn't lying about it to Trunks.

Wait, that was confirmed out-of-universe?

I still call bullshit on that, regardless of what Toriyama says.

[MR.Mark]

What's the difference? If Toriyama wanted, Sorbe could of been how Freeza came to earth in the Cell arc and it wouldn't of affected anything. Cold provided Cell some more DNA, that's about it.

Because it's hardly last resort option if you don't even wait a year before going back to him

Change afew lines and the result is the same, army wants there leader back, finds him amongst the rubble and revives him. No different than what Cold did.

Any "desperation" or last resort in Sorbe's decisions stemmed from the fact that Toriyama knew in universe how long time had past when he wrote ROF.

[Gaffer Tape]

Look how much some fans hate Yamcha and cheered when Toriyama confirmed he DID cheat on Bulma and she wasn't lying about it to Trunks.

Wait, that was confirmed out-of-universe?

I still call bullshit on that, regardless of what Toriyama says.

I call BS on it too, to an extent. I mean, I acknowledge that he said it, but the way Furuya delivers the account, it comes across as less of a serious defense of a creative decision and more of a jovial, "Come on! Just roll with me here!" kind of thing. Obviously, make of that what you will.

[jcogginsa]

Idea for a DBD side video: A lot of Dragonball video games are forced to create a world map for the Dragonworld, and as far as I know, no such map exists in the manga. How about a video that looks at these world maps to see how similar they are to each other, and how accurate they are to the scant details of Dragonworld Geography that we do have?

Or is that too nerdy even for us?

[Gaffer Tape]

Idea for a DBD side video: A lot of Dragonball video games are forced to create a world map for the Dragonworld, and as far as I know, no such map exists in the manga. How about a video that looks at these world maps to see how similar they are to each other, and how accurate they are to the scant details of Dragonworld Geography that we do have?

Or is that too nerdy even for us?

Actually, there is an official map for the manga. It's in Daizenshuu 4. That's why I was able to say with certainty that Goku's adult home was not in the same location as the elder Gohan's home. =P

[jcogginsa]

Idea for a DBD side video: A lot of Dragonball video games are forced to create a world map for the Dragonworld, and as far as I know, no such map exists in the manga. How about a video that looks at these world maps to see how similar they are to each other, and how accurate they are to the scant details of Dragonworld Geography that we do have?

Or is that too nerdy even for us?

Actually, there is an official map for the manga. It's in Daizenshuu 4. That's why I was able to say with certainty that Goku's adult home was not in the same location as the elder Gohan's home. =P

Fair enough then.

Do you have any comments on my post re: King Kold?

[Noah]

So, I've been watching your videos recently (I rarely watch them when released) and I have some questions about your series in general:

- Have you ever thought about subtitles? Your content is great, even though I'm no native english speaker I can understand mostly of it, but some of my friends have to rely on those generated subtitles from YouTube. I think having proper subtitles could help you to reach more audience too.

- Do you have a formed opinion of Akira Toriyama as a writer? Don't know if you have plans to make a final evaluation by the time you end covering the manga, but you think he's great, good or average?

- How about a movie count? Watching your DBD discussing about the movies, makes me wonder which ones you like best and which ones you like less.

[RandomGuy96]

Freeza Loves Papa - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Cell Arc Part 1!

The Cell Arc begins with more Freeza! Or is it that The Freeza Arc continues with less Cell? I don't even know. Look, Freeza dies. For real this time. He's never, ever coming back. I swear...

Curious thing about that plot hole regarding Goku's spaceship, I seem to recall the Portuguese dub actually had Dr Brief say that it was in pieces, but that he'd been able to salvage enough of it to build the version he took to Namek.

That was actually in the Japanese version as well, believe it or not. People don't seem to remember that bit. It's Episode 46 around 15:20ish for anyone who doesn't believe me and wants to double check.

I think I might have misremembered that line as having been in the manga too. But I still don't think it really works. It's one of those "voodoo shark" moments that tries to cover up a plot hole, but if you really think about it, ends up calling attention to the plot hole instead. Because in both versions of dialogue, Goku brings up his own ship by comparing it to Raditz's, and how it couldn't have been used because Gohan broke it. But in the anime, Raditz's ship ends up far more intact than Goku's ship! In the manga, the comparison makes some sense, as Goku's pod would at least presumably be intact. But here, we're supposed to believe that the new ship with a hole in it is somehow less salvageable than the 25-year-old ship that's been exploded into nothing! I dunno. That's just my thought.

I disagree that King Cold didn't need to exist. I actually love him, despite his tiny role, because he serves three important purposes:

1. Confirms that Freeza didn't just spawn from nowhere and makes him look slightly less ass-pull-y, while also giving just a bit more world building (Freeza's organization in general needed more). We already sorta had that with Cooler, and it was already implied when he noted his parent(s) were able to 'get dust on [him]' in an unspecified previous bout, but it's nice to get more, and in manga format.
2. Gives Freeza someone to talk to other than some random goon (which would be boring), while also giving us a bit more insight into his character. His respectful tone towards his father (despite continually asserting he is the stronger one) shows us some of that faux-gentleman persona that was only ever really an informed attribute in the Namek arc and gives him a scrap more depth, while Cold's deference towards his son further hints as how to formidable Freeza is. Because Cold is both physically intimidating (ten-foot tall horned alien warlord) and noted to be tremendously powerful in his own right (hence why everyone's cowering in fear).
3. Shows us that Trunks wasn't just a guy with a powerful sword. Maybe you could dismiss his dismantling of Freeza as "he got a lucky hit with that blade, and Freeza wasn't buff so clearly wasn't exerting full effort anyway." But Cold was specifically stated to be near Freeza's strength, probably rivaling his Namek self, and Trunks killed him in two hits.

I also disagree that the series trivialized Freeza by introducing Cold, or ever implied Cold was the 'real' boss. Freeza's comments in the previous arc about being the strongest in the universe would still stand (except for Cooler and Beerus if you start factoring in the movies, and he had his reasons for not including them in his statements), and the way he talked about his parent(s) in the previous arc, you get the impression that he was still well above him/them, since all they can do is "get dust on them" (he directly compares their power to pre-SS Goku, who we know he could tool). Freeza clearly treats Cold as a sidekick, disregarding his suggestions (like nuking the planet from orbit... it's the only way to be sure), telling him what to do, and even labeling himself as the strongest being in the universe while standing right in front of Cold. The most solid indications of his superiority, if Freeza's statements and their general rapport isn't enough to pick it up, are that A. Cold says anyone who could defeat Freeza must be the strongest in the universe, and B. Gohan senses Cold's power, says it's similar to what Freeza is at at the moment, and then says "this is nothing; Freeza can get much, much stronger than this" (while we're given no indication Cold can get "much, much stronger", or he probably would have tried). Overall, I thought it was made fairly clear that Freeza was the one in charge between the two of them owing to his greater strength, but that he still allowed Cold to hold a high position out of respect (and possibly to make sure he always had a powerful ally to rely upon in case something like Goku ever came up)... which, again, adds a bit of depth to his character.

[Gaffer Tape]

A Coola Christmas - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Extraordinary Mightiest vs. Mightiest

Dragon Ball Dissection December continues with a look at Dragon Ball Z movie 5! Freeza's suspiciously cooler brother, Coola, comes to earth seeking revenge. But can he make his movie more than just a retread of both Freeza and Cold? And can this one overcome all the hurdles and actually manage to fit into the anime canon?

Thanks for watching, everyone. I know there are some questions in this thread I haven't answered yet. I'll do my best soon, but, you know, Christmas is busy, and I still have one more video to frantically make. =P

[coola]

My first exposure to this movie, was via Famicom DBZ III game, with much better tied it in with series event First time i watched it, was in 2001, .rm format with Filipino dub. As for timeline, like i said earlier, i like to watch these movies as what if events, GT itself is considered to be sidestory, so i can undersand, whty they had Coola in it:)

[matt0044]

I'm surprised you didn't mention the dub in regards to the movie titles because they actually fix the problem with the Japanese titles. The movie about Lord Slug is called Lord Slug. The movie about Cooler getting revenge is called Cooler's Revenge. Hell, they're even more concise with the Bardock Special's mouthful of a title becoming "Bardock: Father of Goku." It's the one dub change everybody can agree was for the very best.

[Mewzard]

You know, for Cooler's Shredder form, I just always assumed it wasn't part of the forms used to restrict his power, but one he discovered that increased his power, a proper powering up transformation (which Freeza would later do as well in Resurrection 'F').

Good review Gaffer! I've always been partial to Cooler's first movie, fluff or not. But I'm glad we're getting to Trunks before DBD's tried and true December marathon ends. I imagine it's going to be quite the interesting dissection.

[RandomGuy96]

A Coola Christmas - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Extraordinary Mightiest vs. Mightiest

Dragon Ball Dissection December continues with a look at Dragon Ball Z movie 5! Freeza's suspiciously cooler brother, Coola, comes to earth seeking revenge. But can he make his movie more than just a retread of both Freeza and Cold? And can this one overcome all the hurdles and actually manage to fit into the anime canon?

Thanks for watching, everyone. I know there are some questions in this thread I haven't answered yet. I'll do my best soon, but, you know, Christmas is busy, and I still have one more video to frantically make. =P

Thoughts:

1. On continuity, I never thought the character designs were much of an issue. I never assumed Gohan kept an identical haircut for 3 years. As a kid I never had a problem slotting this movie into the Androids training gap, maybe a year or two after Trunks shows up, and it seems official material agrees with me because this movie is probably the most prone to being included in official continuity whenever various other bits of the franchise comment on it. For example, Cooler's movie was officially listed as part of the main timeline in Daizenshuu 7 for example (along with Garlic Jr's, because of his filler arc), his movie is listed as occurring in that 3 year gap in Daizenshuu 6 (as you noted), and Cooler shows up in a the main story of Xenoverse 2 while other movie villains really don't. I also could've sworn Herms translated some irrelevant bit of promotional material from around ROF's release where Cooler's existence is acknowledged, I'm still looking for that.

2. I also like the dramatic irony of Cooler's defeat, it adds some depth instead of Cooler just being ANOTHER space pirate with no pathos who Goku punches to death. On the visuals, the final beam struggle between Cooler and Goku is also pretty nice to look at; the spectacular method of Cooler's death and how Goku actually gets knocked out of SS and collapses in exhaustion after are nice touches.

3. The whole point of Cooler having that form, at least to me, was that he had done more work than Freeza and managed to unlock a form that actually raised his power. Something Freeza never had. It's not really connected to the whole restricted forms thread. Speaking of which, while you earlier mentioned Cold's resemblance to Freeza's 2nd form, Cold always resembled more so Cooler's "true" form to me than anything else, just take off the horns. I thought that they looked like that because they were older, and Freeza was the only one of them who really put stock into the "restrictive forms" nonsense despite them all technically having the ability to do it.

4. My #1 complaint about the movie is actually the fighting. This pretty much applies to every DB movie, but there are no real battles in the film, just quick curb-stomps. In particular the final Super Saiyan Goku vs Super Cooler fight was inexcusably anticlimactic. It looked like they were going with the idea that the two weren't far apart in power and Cooler just threw a half-assed punch (as the beam struggle is very even, Goku gasses himself out to near unconsciousness, and Cooler takes hits from Goku like a champ; contrast e.g. the end of movie 9, or even the time Goku punched Freeza in the gut)... but not only does Cooler never get to truly show off the whole "stronger than Freeza" thing in physical combat, but the the whole climax lasts about a minute. Lame. They couldn't have cut down on earlier pointless sequences like Goku fighting the henchmen or Goku attacking Cooler to no effect in base to have enough time/money leftover for an actually even and exciting finale?

[caejones]

Re: Yajirobe. Wasn't he in the previous movie? He didn't really do anything, but he was there when Goku and Kuririn came to after getting Slugslapped out of the plot for a few minutes. I think he gave them senzu or did CPR or something.

[Kid Buu]

Clearly the best thing to do after going to outer space is to do to a crossover with Freddy Krueger.

I don't mind the constant Freeza clones and comebacks since most of them are short and usually involve him getting beaten straight away. RoF was the first time I felt oversaturated with the character.

[Kamiccolo9]

Wait, that was confirmed out-of-universe?

I still call bullshit on that, regardless of what Toriyama says.

I call BS on it too, to an extent. I mean, I acknowledge that he said it, but the way Furuya delivers the account, it comes across as less of a serious defense of a creative decision and more of a jovial, "Come on! Just roll with me here!" kind of thing. Obviously, make of that what you will.

My response to the quote, from another thread.

Honestly, I've just assumed that it was some girl coming on to him while he freaked out and was unable to stop her, and Bulma happened to see this and overreacted. Ergo "He is a cheater," because he didn't prevent the scene.

Keeps things consistent with both Bulma and Yamcha's personalities, keeps the "cheater" thing intact, and even makes a joke out of it to fit in with Toriyama's delivery of the line.

[RandomGuy96]

Toriyama's reaction to Furuya asking why Yamcha got screwed over (which was basically "because he sucks lol" ) is one of the many reasons why I can never not like the guy.