MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 3/4/24!)

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/4/18!)

Post by Michsi » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:36 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:Piccolo Explains Things Badly - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Cell Arc Part 5!

The Artificial Humans are defeated through the power of Super Saiyan and weird exposition. Then Trunks has to show up and retcon everything. What a jerk...

As always, let me know what you think. Thanks for watching!

My take on the Vegeta is a genius thing and what I understood from my translation - he wasn't complimenting Vegeta because of his plan of confirming that the androids could drain ki, but because he had managed to bluff his way out of a potentially life threatening situation by basically just doing some impressive posturing. Keeping your cool and projecting confidence is pretty noteworthy and I think that's what Piccolo was referring to. And correct me if I'm wrong , but isn't "tensai" used for any individual that is exceptional in a certain field, in this case fighting.

Also yeah, it really does feel like you're picking on Piccolo, specifically because it's exactly in this part of the story that he demonstrates that supposedly smarter side of his, meaning figuring out that #20 might be Gero on his own and immediately taking note of their surroundings when the androids chose the place of battle -which you even mentioned. Him calling Gohan for help also makes perfect sense because of the urgency of the situation, not mention that very natural impulse to call out for help when in immediate danger. What was he supposed to do, lay back, let Gero absorb his energy and just wait until someone came. And as for the telepathy argument- I get that some characters had no business being able to use this skill, but Piccolo? I actually expect every Namekian to be able to do this to some extent.

Enjoyed the video otherwise. This does seem to be the section of the story with the most inconsistencies, though/

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/4/18!)

Post by OhHiRenan » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:56 pm

Michsi wrote:
Gaffer Tape wrote:Piccolo Explains Things Badly - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Cell Arc Part 5!

The Artificial Humans are defeated through the power of Super Saiyan and weird exposition. Then Trunks has to show up and retcon everything. What a jerk...

As always, let me know what you think. Thanks for watching!

My take on the Vegeta is a genius thing and what I understood from my translation - he wasn't complimenting Vegeta because of his plan of confirming that the androids could drain ki, but because he had managed to bluff his way out of a potentially life threatening situation by basically just doing some impressive posturing. Keeping your cool and projecting confidence is pretty noteworthy and I think that's what Piccolo was referring to.
This was my take as well and I feel it's fairly obvious that this was what Piccolo meant.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/4/18!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:45 pm

OhHiRenan wrote:
Michsi wrote:My take on the Vegeta is a genius thing and what I understood from my translation - he wasn't complimenting Vegeta because of his plan of confirming that the androids could drain ki, but because he had managed to bluff his way out of a potentially life threatening situation by basically just doing some impressive posturing. Keeping your cool and projecting confidence is pretty noteworthy and I think that's what Piccolo was referring to.
This was my take as well and I feel it's fairly obvious that this was what Piccolo meant.
Here's the thing. I don't see how they can be separated. Whether your think he's complimenting the getting drained on purpose, the bluff, or the whole enchilada (and for the record, I was assuming the latter option--it comes across fairly obviously to me that the "genius" line is summing up what he'd just said), it doesn't matter. Because even if you think he's complimenting just the bluff, that's a bluff that's only necessary because of the drain. To take the metaphor in my video to its logical conclusion, we have the guy who purposely puts his hand on a hot stove and burns the crap out of it. Then he successfully dresses his wound. So if you're watching that whole event play out, do you say, "Boy, that guy sure knows how to slab on ointment. What a genius"? No, because that would sound absolutely ridiculous without addressing the entire context. In the best scenario, you'd come across as sarcastic. But if you were being sincere, you'd sound like an idiot.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/4/18!)

Post by matt0044 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:22 pm

It's honestly what Nux Taku refers to as "Brockatosis" where you gotta have the secondary characters contribute something, really ANYTHING, to the battle they're standing by from and just... point out the blithering obvious or over-analyze the smallest shit to make it sound cooler. Often this comes at the cost of the battle's flow as they have to pick apart EVERYTHING for the audience or so the voice actors (in the Anime) have lines to justify keeping them around most of the time.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/4/18!)

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:52 pm

Great video as always. I do wish you talked more about Vegeta's transformation and "pure evil" quote. Like with Gokuu starting from Freeza, Vegeta's first (seen) super saiyan transformation marks his complete change from a sneaky practical fighter to "I will only fight your final form". This is attributed in-universe to the savage nature of the form itself, increasing their saiyan desire for battle( or, perhaps, continual possessing of the idiot ball) , and even temporary makes Gohan not finish off Cell later.
Although, It becomes Gokuu's and Vegeta's characters from now on (Gohan goes back) so I think it's just a convenient in-universe explanation that was happening at the same time as the overall idea of the series was changing to the "fighting stronger opponents is sugee" theme that eventually (Super) consumes all. His transformation also is the achievement of his motivation throughout the Freeza arc, to become the ultimate fighter of legend, but he only gets to enjoy it for this lone fight; before he's never the strongest fighter again. It the only fight in all of Dragonball where he is truly "winning"

As for being "pure evil" I think it's really nothing more than a cool line and there was never such a requirement for super saiyan in the first place. Vegeta has already joined the main cast and (married?) Blooma ( who is by the way the anti-super saiyan, going from a corrupting influence in the early parts to the (relatively) most grounded person in the cast) so he has probably already begun his redemption path, even if it is not "proven" till Trunks is killed by Cell.

But yeah, a lot of Idiot balls to pass around this arc.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/4/18!)

Post by Michsi » Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:25 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:
OhHiRenan wrote:
Michsi wrote:My take on the Vegeta is a genius thing and what I understood from my translation - he wasn't complimenting Vegeta because of his plan of confirming that the androids could drain ki, but because he had managed to bluff his way out of a potentially life threatening situation by basically just doing some impressive posturing. Keeping your cool and projecting confidence is pretty noteworthy and I think that's what Piccolo was referring to.
This was my take as well and I feel it's fairly obvious that this was what Piccolo meant.
Here's the thing. I don't see how they can be separated. Whether your think he's complimenting the getting drained on purpose, the bluff, or the whole enchilada (and for the record, I was assuming the latter option--it comes across fairly obviously to me that the "genius" line is summing up what he'd just said), it doesn't matter. Because even if you think he's complimenting just the bluff, that's a bluff that's only necessary because of the drain. To take the metaphor in my video to its logical conclusion, we have the guy who purposely puts his hand on a hot stove and burns the crap out of it. Then he successfully dresses his wound. So if you're watching that whole event play out, do you say, "Boy, that guy sure knows how to slab on ointment. What a genius"? No, because that would sound absolutely ridiculous without addressing the entire context. In the best scenario, you'd come across as sarcastic. But if you were being sincere, you'd sound like an idiot.

It's not so much about separating the two, but about which one you put emphasis on; that alone can change you perception of Piccolo's statement. Piccolo barely says anything about Vegeta's intentions with 19, and he focuses mostly on Vegeta having stared down his opponent. He took a gamble and won, and that is impressive- This is what Piccolo meant. Making someone that is threat retreat without so much as lifting a finger is something I could clearly see Piccolo respecting, because as we've seen, that is what these characters care about : battle prowess. As for the stunt before that, yeah, kinda pointless, but again, not what Piccolo was referring to.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/4/18!)

Post by matt0044 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:41 am

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:But yeah, a lot of Idiot balls to pass around this arc.
Honestly, the lines honestly blur at times in regards to Vegeta considering how he's not exactly a "good guy" now or that "bad" either. In regards to Bulma... why was she there? I mean, what did the story really need her for at the time?

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/4/18!)

Post by coola » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:11 am

Great video as always, i kinda understand why so many people think Freeza should be end of DB, everyone is so OOC dumb, even Blooma, going to battlefield with your baby, i mean...really?
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/4/18!)

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:23 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:Piccolo Explains Things Badly - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Cell Arc Part 5!

The Artificial Humans are defeated through the power of Super Saiyan and weird exposition. Then Trunks has to show up and retcon everything. What a jerk...

As always, let me know what you think. Thanks for watching!
I had pretty much the same reaction as you did when I re-read the Cell arc for the first time. I actually made a thread called "Piccolo's intelligence" soon after re-reading those scenes because he comes across as such an unbelievable doofus. You seemed to skip over the part where he took toying to a new level, to the point where Vegeta was getting bored of it, while at the same time ranting about how he's not going to screw around. I'm still curious if that was intentional on Toriyama's part.
Negatives:
-Demanded that they let the androids be created, because he wanted to fight them. This is despite Trunks stating that they would be massacred, and that he, Gohan, and Goku (as he was) stood absolutely no chance.
-Came up with an... interesting... plan to rescue Goku from 19, involving selling a hit from 20 that was really harmless to him, then lying on the ground and letting 19 drain the life out of him, ostensibly to catch them off guard. Except he already had them off guard, with a clean shot at 19, and 20 wasn't a real threat to him at that point.
-Referred to Vegeta as a "genius" while Vegeta was acting like a moron.
-Demanded to fight Android 20, even though Vegeta could end him with one attack, and proceeded to toy with him, and spend more time bragging than fighting, even though Gero is still dangerous in many ways by this point. It gets to the point that Vegeta of all people actually yells at him to finish Gero off.
-Turns his back to Gero for a prolonged period of time to talk to the others. This, along with his toying earlier, lets Gero escape.
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dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/4/18!)

Post by Michsi » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:09 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Gaffer Tape wrote:Piccolo Explains Things Badly - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Cell Arc Part 5!

The Artificial Humans are defeated through the power of Super Saiyan and weird exposition. Then Trunks has to show up and retcon everything. What a jerk...

As always, let me know what you think. Thanks for watching!
I had pretty much the same reaction as you did when I re-read the Cell arc for the first time. I actually made a thread called "Piccolo's intelligence" soon after re-reading those scenes because he comes across as such an unbelievable doofus. You seemed to skip over the part where he took toying to a new level, to the point where Vegeta was getting bored of it, while at the same time ranting about how he's not going to screw around. I'm still curious if that was intentional on Toriyama's part.
Negatives:
-Demanded that they let the androids be created, because he wanted to fight them. This is despite Trunks stating that they would be massacred, and that he, Gohan, and Goku (as he was) stood absolutely no chance.
-Came up with an... interesting... plan to rescue Goku from 19, involving selling a hit from 20 that was really harmless to him, then lying on the ground and letting 19 drain the life out of him, ostensibly to catch them off guard. Except he already had them off guard, with a clean shot at 19, and 20 wasn't a real threat to him at that point.
-Referred to Vegeta as a "genius" while Vegeta was acting like a moron.
-Demanded to fight Android 20, even though Vegeta could end him with one attack, and proceeded to toy with him, and spend more time bragging than fighting, even though Gero is still dangerous in many ways by this point. It gets to the point that Vegeta of all people actually yells at him to finish Gero off.
-Turns his back to Gero for a prolonged period of time to talk to the others. This, along with his toying earlier, lets Gero escape.
See, this is exactly the sort convenient interpretation I was afraid would gain more traction than necessary. The statement about Vegeta's genius had little to do with his stunt with 19 and almost everything with managing to turn the situation in his favor despite being at a disadvantage. Vegeta is considere a battle genius (isn't it actually stated exactly like that?) so he was referring to him winning through bluffing, which is a battle tactic.

I find all of the above mentioned examples extremely, let's say, nitpicky for the sake of supporting a certain character/story related bias. For instance, both the example of him choosing to allow the androids to be created as well as challenging 20 are not examples of limited intelligence. He knew exactly what he was doing and the risks that were involved and he chose the route that was important to him: the one in which he gets to fight. Him getting back at Dr. Gero was a matter of pride for him , something Vegeta understood, which is why he of all people actually allows Piccolo to have the fight ( even though Vegeta had been the most eager to find 20 ). What you can call into question is their morality, but that is another debate.

When you start complaining about scenes like Piccolo calling for help when he is being drained (I'm still trying to understand why this was a bad narrative and character choice ?????) because of what happened with Yamcha, I have to ask if one is not more concerned with finding faults than objectively analyzing the story. I mean, I'm pretty sure Yamcha would've liked to call for help too (didn't he try?) in the chance someone would've reached him sooner, maybe before he got impaled? Maybe Piccolo was trying to avoid just that, getting impaled/out right killed, since it was something Dr. Gero seemed to like doing after he drains his victims? Same as the telepathy complaint. GafferTape already said we see King Piccolo use it, too, and Piccolo himself uses it again in the Buu arc when he contacts Trunks and Goten while they were training to warn then that Buu was coming. Yes, it's an ability he has.

This particular part of the story has two important examples of why Piccolo is considered the smarter guy, meaning that he takes note of their surroundings and he figures out Dr. Gero's identity, but these get glossed over in favor of sticking to they tone/ joke the title was all about, I guess.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/4/18!)

Post by FoolsGil » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:34 am

If we're talking about character's intelligence, I can't wait until we get to Tenshinhan with his Shin Kikoho, which if could stop Cell in his tracks, could have done reasonable damage if not destroy 17 or 18.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/4/18!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:42 pm

Michsi wrote:See, this is exactly the sort convenient interpretation I was afraid would gain more traction than necessary. The statement about Vegeta's genius had little to do with his stunt with 19 and almost everything with managing to turn the situation in his favor despite being at a disadvantage. Vegeta is considere a battle genius (isn't it actually stated exactly like that?) so he was referring to him winning through bluffing, which is a battle tactic.
I think we are largely at the point where we're going to have to agree to disagree. However, I find myself puzzled why you keep emphasizing the phrase "battle genius" while simultaneously ignoring the actions he took in battle and focusing solely on the actions he took in between moments of combat. I'm not denying that bluffing his way out of a fight was smart. I even say as much. But again, you can't take one half of that statement and ignore the other because they are intertwined. One is the result of the other. It's beginning to feel like you're purposely dismissing the evidence that doesn't fit in line with your interpretation, a supposition I feel rather awkward having to point out in light of:
This particular part of the story has two important examples of why Piccolo is considered the smarter guy, meaning that he takes note of their surroundings and he figures out Dr. Gero's identity, but these get glossed over in favor of sticking to they tone/ joke the title was all about, I guess.

I find all of the above mentioned examples extremely, let's say, nitpicky for the sake of supporting a certain character/story related bias.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but it does seem like you're being especially protective of Piccolo here. And, hey, why not? I love passionate debates. And I love seeing other people's opinions. I do take slight issue with you assuming that, rather than me just calling it as I see it, I'm pushing some kind of anti-Piccolo agenda here. I mean, why would I be? What would I have to gain by that? And as for the title, coming up with one is literally the last thing I do in the making of a DBD episode. There is never a time when I come up with a catchy title and bend my script to fit it. On the contrary, I'm usually struggling to come up with a title that fits the script, and this has been one of the trickiest ones so far. I certainly gave credit to Piccolo for the things you mentioned, so I don't see how I'm "glossing over" his good moments in the slightest. And I say in the video that the moments I'm calling out are things I had never noticed before, but they stuck out to me on this readthrough. So unless you think I'm lying about that statement, there is no possible way I could have come into this video with the intention to give Piccolo an unfair shake. It's simply what I noticed and what I believe, so I said it. That's really all there is to it.
When you start complaining about scenes like Piccolo calling for help when he is being drained (I'm still trying to understand why this was a bad narrative and character choice ?????) because of what happened with Yamcha, I have to ask if one is not more concerned with finding faults than objectively analyzing the story. I mean, I'm pretty sure Yamcha would've liked to call for help too (didn't he try?) in the chance someone would've reached him sooner, maybe before he got impaled? Maybe Piccolo was trying to avoid just that, getting impaled/out right killed, since it was something Dr. Gero seemed to like doing after he drains his victims? Same as the telepathy complaint. GafferTape already said we see King Piccolo use it, too, and Piccolo himself uses it again in the Buu arc when he contacts Trunks and Goten while they were training to warn then that Buu was coming. Yes, it's an ability he has.
I think the problem here is that you're still assuming I'm coming at this plot point with an intentional agenda to dress down Piccolo, and that's distracting you from what the actual point is. Because this isn't a Piccolo problem. It's a storytelling problem. If it's any character's problem, it's Dr. Gero's. I'm faulting him for a bad strategy, not Piccolo. Dr. Gero knows the heroes can sense ki. Dr. Gero has firsthand experience with allies being alerted to him draining ki. There is no way this plan should work, telepathy or not. The narrative tries to spin this as some unable to account for twist that Dr. Gero could never have predicted. If he had gone for someone who wasn't telepathic, then he wouldn't have had any interference. But the story has already shown us that that is not the case. It shouldn't have mattered. If he had grabbed any one of them, the others should have come running immediately, whether the victim could talk inside their brains or not.

As I've already reiterated, Piccolo is a character established to have telepathy, and I don't think it's a stretch to assume that Namekians in general have it. I'm fine with that. But it ties into the bigger problem of how haphazardly telepathy is used in this series. I say it's treated as bad luck that Dr. Gero happened to pick the guy who has telepathy, but given how telepathy is typically used in this series (which I point out every time it happens), it probably wouldn't have mattered. Characters are typically telepathic whenever the plot requires them to be. So if Dr. Gero had grabbed Kuririn, chances are he would have been suddenly telepathic. And I do feel the need to point out that, just a couple of chapters later, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and Piccolo decide on a ki-raising communication method to alert each other, despite the fact that two out of the three present are already established to be telepathic. That's what I'm getting at. Telepathy is always handled very sloppily in this series. So I bought it up here, like I always do, only to say, hey, it's okay that Piccolo does it because he was introduced already having that skill. However, its implementation, as always, is still sloppy.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/4/18!)

Post by Michsi » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:55 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:
Michsi wrote:See, this is exactly the sort convenient interpretation I was afraid would gain more traction than necessary. The statement about Vegeta's genius had little to do with his stunt with 19 and almost everything with managing to turn the situation in his favor despite being at a disadvantage. Vegeta is considere a battle genius (isn't it actually stated exactly like that?) so he was referring to him winning through bluffing, which is a battle tactic.
I think we are largely at the point where we're going to have to agree to disagree. However, I find myself puzzled why you keep emphasizing the phrase "battle genius" while simultaneously ignoring the actions he took in battle and focusing solely on the actions he took in between moments of combat. I'm not denying that bluffing his way out of a fight was smart. I even say as much. But again, you can't take one half of that statement and ignore the other because they are intertwined. One is the result of the other. It's beginning to feel like you're purposely dismissing the evidence that doesn't fit in line with your interpretation, a supposition I feel rather awkward having to point out in light of:
.
I'm not ignoring those. I out-right stated that the stunt, letting 19 absorb his energy, was illogical, and at most you can accuse Piccolo of not making any statement about that. By the way, I'm not even asking to separate anything, but to change the perception that Piccolo was referring to Vegeta's plan of confirming the androids could absorb energy . That was not what made Piccolo compliment him, and that alone can change how one views that line. The absorption plan was a failure of logic, a fart of the brain if you will, while the bluff was a pure battle tactic, since intimidation through posturing and projecting confidence is a battle tactic.

By the way, since I don't understand Japanese, can you translate what Piccolo says exactly? The version I have basically says this : " That last experiment/stunt cost Vegeta a lot. The way he just goaded 20, that was pure bluff. If 20 had attacked, he would've been a goner. He took a gamble and won. Impressive. " At no point does he insinuate his plan with 19 was smart, and as you can see from the quote, speaks almost exclusively about the bluff and how he won his gamble. More than that, I don't quite see where it is even mentioned that Vegeta was trying to confirm anything. Maybe I'm missing something from my translation?
Maybe I'm mistaken, but it does seem like you're being especially protective of Piccolo here. And, hey, why not? I love passionate debates. And I love seeing other people's opinions. I do take slight issue with you assuming that, rather than me just calling it as I see it, I'm pushing some kind of anti-Piccolo agenda here. I mean, why would I be? What would I have to gain by that? And as for the title, coming up with one is literally the last thing I do in the making of a DBD episode. There is never a time when I come up with a catchy title and bend my script to fit it. On the contrary, I'm usually struggling to come up with a title that fits the script, and this has been one of the trickiest ones so far. I certainly gave credit to Piccolo for the things you mentioned, so I don't see how I'm "glossing over" his good moments in the slightest. And I say in the video that the moments I'm calling out are things I had never noticed before, but they stuck out to me on this readthrough. So unless you think I'm lying about that statement, there is no possible way I could have come into this video with the intention to give Piccolo an unfair shake. It's simply what I noticed and what I believe, so I said it. That's really all there is to it.
Oh, I won't hide that, though I had assumed me being fan of this character didn't need a mention since I thought this was already well known around here. it was the title that drew my attention and I was curious if it was about that exact line which I had always believed to be wrongly interpreted.
I don't think you have an agenda of dressing down Piccolo, not at all ( the only one I remember you not liking is Vegeta) but what I did sense, and I changed my mind about addressing this in my initial post (may I should've, it would've made it seem less like i was coming to Piccolo's defense exclusively) is an overall sardonicism which I seem to encounter almost everywhere these days, specifically from the older fans. A sort of general "Oh you, Dragon Ball" sort of tone. The video seems to linger on it's faults, or at least draw attention to them quite heavily.

As for Dr. Gero- he literally had no choice but to try and absorb someone's ki so he could take on Vegeta. Yes, Piccolo's ki dropping would've alerted the others, but I'm assuming he intended to be done by that point. In fact, Gero actually believed he had taken all there was to take by the time Gohan knocks him away so the whole ki absorption seem to work fast. Did with Yamcha. And going back to the Yamcha example: the others were shown to react not when Yamcha's energy was being absorbed, same that was happening with Piccolo, but when Gero's hand went through his chest, which didn't happen with Piccolo. There seems to be a difference between energy being absorbed and ki signal dropping rapidly. Gohan could still feel Piccolo's ki, that's how he found him. There are narrative problems, no dount about that, but this wasn't one of them. Don't think this arc needs more.

I don't deny that your comments where more intended to highlight narrative problem s, but you seemed to have come up with a title and approach for this particular segment that sort of guided the analysis. Again, I don't believe you have an agenda against any character, nor would I have a problem had you even stated that you don't particularly like Piccolo. My issue comes with the interpretations of some scenes.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/4/18!)

Post by matt0044 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:21 pm

I remember watching Goku vs. Freeza on Dragon Ball Z Kai and finding the battle a lot more exhilarating compared to how Lance made it out to be. I feel that this is an inherent advantage that the Anime has over the Manga. We see the fighting in motion and hear the hits along with the battle cries. While it might not be the best storytelling, a good fight is still a good fight and that goes double when it's on the screen rather than on pages with still images. Not that I want to put down the latter...

Kai even enhances this with a tighter pace that's not dragged out yet not rushed either, not to mention Christopher Ayres's absolutely amazing performance as Freeza. The more lengthy scenes are trimmed down with the Saiyan and Freeza Sagas streamlined into fifty-four episodes. Even some of the filler they can't remove are pretty good like Gohan facing Freeza in his father's stead and actually going on a suicide run. Personally, that semi-mitigated how he was left out the battle he and Krillin started. A bit.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/4/18!)

Post by Attitudefan » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:47 am

FoolsGil wrote:If we're talking about character's intelligence, I can't wait until we get to Tenshinhan with his Shin Kikoho, which if could stop Cell in his tracks, could have done reasonable damage if not destroy 17 or 18.
Woah! Good point. I guess Tenshinhan is disliked too much to do something truly standout from the Saiyans...
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/18/18!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:56 am

Toriyama's Soft Reboot - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Cell Arc Part 6!

Dragon Ball Dissection continues with a look at that famous question, "Didn't Trunks tell the heroes the Artificial Humans were #19 and #20?" The answer is, "Yes! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

My favorite serendipitous find for this one was coming across a picture of Toriyama and Torishima in 1980. And now it completely crystalizes for me how Torishima served as the inspiration for Dr. Mashirito!

Also, this video serves as the backdrop for a new project I'm working on, a Making of Dragon Ball Dissection video that will hopefully be out soon.
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MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection Series Discussion Thread! (Updated 3/4/24!)
Current Episode: A Hero's Clone - Dragon Ball Dissection: Goku's Side Story! Siu Xing Qiu is a Testament to Courage

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/18/18!)

Post by coola » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:25 am

I'm really curious how Dragon Ball would continue, if Torishima continued to be Toriyama editor, they had really great chemistry, and Toriyama even created character who looks like Torishima in Dr. Slump :)
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/18/18!)

Post by Michsi » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:37 am

coola wrote:I'm really curious how Dragon Ball would continue, if Torishima continued to be Toriyama editor, they had really great chemistry, and Toriyama even created character who looks like Torishima in Dr. Slump :)
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How do you go from that to Demon King.

Loved the video and the bit about the editors. The androids vs everyone at the end kind of reminded me of Krillin/Gohan/Piccolo vs Nappa, which is another fight I love.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/18/18!)

Post by FoolsGil » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:36 am

It's a shame Toriyama made things up as he went along. It would have been nice to get information on how he would have handled the arc if Torishima didn't say anything.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/18/18!)

Post by The Patrolman » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:43 pm

I am surprised that the you have appreciation for the fights. I'm not big fan of these since most are very one sided
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