Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

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SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta
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Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:59 pm

Here is an abstract introduction to how I wanted the system to work (2 parts):

https://youtu.be/goN7qtM-EXY

https://youtu.be/AkdLkBOLxO4

I have run the game for about 40 hours and have had great success with the last two sessions.
I'm doing a much more thorough set of instructions and description of the structure of the game as I hone them out.

Feel free to ask some questions, expect the detailed uploads to come out within a week.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:56 am

Here's a more thorough rundown:

Part 1: https://youtu.be/HpPaOK7g7x0

Part 2: https://youtu.be/Pz9V2Sawl-I

I will also add in a large block of text for reference for those that don't wish to load the video each time they want the information.

This game runs off of an expanded 12 point scale and a skill ranking system. The 12 point scale is where you roll your dice and determine the outcome of an assault or challenge.
Comparing the skills and power of the attacker versus the challenge or the defender, will guide you to what dice to roll on the 12 point scale.

Here is the 12 point scale:

1 - \
2 - > Miss
3 - /
4 - Scratch
5 - Hit
6 - Damage
7 - Stagger / Combo Opportunity
8 - Injure (significant damage)
9 - Wound (drop in fighting ability)
10 - Mortal Wound (death if left untreated)
11 - Imminent Death
12 - Instant Death / Another Dimension!

Skill rankings are as follows:

Image - Wish level
Z - Best in the Galaxy
S - Top Tier Expert
A - Mastery
B - Adept
C - Competent
D - Qualify, Basic Ability to do so

Rankings apply to your "Types" and your "Moves".
"Types" Dictate your role in the group and can include your race and persistent equipment.
"Moves" Are what you do and can include your Fighting Styles, Special Attacks, and Consumable Items.

Here are some example characters "Types" are on top, "Moves" are on bottom.

A - Namekian Power level 700-1000
A - Ki Blaster



S - Death Star (Dead Zone version of Kienzan/ Destructo Disk)
A - Namekian Martial Arts
B - Renzoku Energy Dan
B - Flight (Ki Based)

Notes: Moves and Types can "synergize". A - rank Ki-blaster type boosts the "Renzoku Energy Dan" Move. A - Rank Namekian Race and A - Rank Namekian Martial Arts combine to become S - Rank Namekian Martial arts whenever used.



A - Sayajin Power Level 300-6500
B - Psychic
B - Transformation



S - Psychic Slash
B - Mind Control
B - Oozaru Transformation
B - Blutz Orb
B - Telekinesis

Notes: B - Rank Transformation type and B - Rank Oozaru Transformation combine to become A - Rank Oozaru Transformation whenever used. B - Rank Psychic and B - Rank Mind Control / Telekinesis combine in the same way. Top power level is 650, but multiplied x10 in Oozaru form.



A - Android Power Level 0
B - Strength
B - Speed



S - Counter Martial Arts Program (fighting Style)
B - Deflect Energy
B - After Image
B - Flight (Thrust)
B - Gas Canister (interchangeable gas)

Notes: B - Rank Deflect Energy combines with B - Rank Strength to become A - Rank Deflect Energy when used. The same is true for B - Rank Speed and B - Rank After Image / Flight. The gas canister can be emptied out through ports all over the android body, including the mouth. Canisters available include CO2, CO, Liquid Nitrogen, and Cesium 137.



Human (Videl Satan) Power Level : 100 - 150
A - Burst
A - Endure



S - Satanic Martial Arts
A - Dynamite Punch (Burst)
B - Dynamite Kick (Combo Opener)
B - Hikou (Jet Pack)

Notes: A - Rank Burst Type and A - Rank Dynamite Punch combine to become S - Rank Dynamite Punch when used. The Hikou (Jet Pack) should be equipment normally, but she carries an (unlimited) amount of capsules containing replacement Jet packs, so it can be assumed she will always have Hikou available.


Typical Types for Starting Characters:

Any Race - You get the Racial benefits. Androids, Sayajins, and Namekians are popular. Yardrats and Cyborg versions of other races have been used as well.

Fighter - You are there to fight an opponent, typically 1 on 1 with your good 'ol martial arts. Additional stamina, health, attack and defense ability is assumed with this type.
Brawler - You are there to fight a group of opponents, typically all at once. Additional stamina, health, attack and defense ability is assumed with this type.
Ki - You have more ki than the average person of your power level, and you are better at using it.
Ki Manipulation - More specialized version of the above. Not as much Ki bonus, but more efficient and better improvisation.
Ki Blast - More specialized version of the above, specifically for blasting.
Speed - You are faster than the average person of your ability. Speed types sometimes get extra movement/dodge/attack opportunities.
Strength - Self explanatory
Health - Extra health, by a longshot at higher ranks.
Attack - Self Explanatory
Defense - Self Explanatory
Burst - You specialize in burst fighting. (The rapid in your face blurry punching and kicking) Additional Stamina and mental toughness is assumed.
Stamina - Self Explanatory
Scientist - You do science. And Are wealthy.
Evasive - Self Explanatory
Endure - Additional Stamina, and you are there to take a pounding for the long haul.
Psychic - You can use psychic powers
Wizard - You can use magic
Support - You are there to help your allies
Healer - You are there to heal your allies
Killer - You don't stop when your enemy is wounded, everything above a staggering hit is a combo for you.


There is no end to the amount of types. I am (currently) imposing a limit of 7 types + your race, unless you use the dragonballs.

Equipment doesn't count against the limit. Equipment can be armor, weapons, scouters, or for someone like a sayajin, their Zentai Boosts are counted as equipment.

A few more additions that I use when I run the game before I submit this post.

Nobody can start with Frieza's race or a Majin race, their very existence out classes all threats before Frieza.
You have to get on Kami's good side for access to Korin / Senzuu / Time chamber.
Players don't necessarily start out with knowledge of the dragonballs.
Only the original Earth/Namekian Dragonballs can grant immortality. Any time the dragonballs get remade, Immortality goes out the window for available wishes.
I typically remove characters from the universe if players have a build based on them. (Goku, Dende, Tien, Piccolo, Yajirobe, etc.) No reason to double up and have them "never measure up".

Whew. Long post is long. Ask any questions you like. Next video will probably be story time.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:27 am

Goodness! I left out the starting packages!

Types (one out of the 4 groups)

S

AA

ABB

BBBB

Moves (one out of the 9 groups)

Z

SS

SAA

SABB

SBBBB

AAAA

AAABB

AABBBB

ABBBBBB

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Re: Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:46 pm

After a third session, I have found the make-shift character sheets became cluttered. So here's the 1st gen stylized character sheets for this game. I'll look to improve them as we use them.

http://www.filehosting.org/file/details ... 0blank.pdf

separately, it's pretty easy to put a character specific watermark on page 1 for each player. Some can be done at default for races that effectively all look the same. (Das Waisis) Like Namekians, Transformed Saya-jins, Yardrats, etc. Or you can find and add your own custom art. I used Photoshop and a B/W filter with 20% transparency.

Image

The group has made it back from Namek. Unfortunately they fought and did not-defeat Freeza. They used Purunga to wish Freeza and his men as far away in the universe as he could put them. So, in effect, the players are setting up more "Return of" and "Revenge of" story arcs in this universe than even Toei animation, if that's believable. They completely avoided the Ginyu force by achieving their wishes and leaving Namek a day before the Ginyu force set foot on the planet.

So, next session is gonna be interesting. Still no deaths yet.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by hunduel » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:32 pm

SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta wrote:Here is an abstract introduction to how I wanted the system to work (2 parts):

https://youtu.be/goN7qtM-EXY

https://youtu.be/AkdLkBOLxO4

I have run the game for about 40 hours and have had great success with the last two sessions.
I'm doing a much more thorough set of instructions and description of the structure of the game as I hone them out.

Feel free to ask some questions, expect the detailed uploads to come out within a week.
Can you make a rule book or just a written extraction of the video? I only can watch videos when I'm home but I could read a text even when I'm travelling (and recently I go by train a lot).

However, your playgroup seems interesting with some great characters, and the scenario seems like a good what-if scenario. Feel free to keep this thread updated! I'd definitely be interested!

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Re: Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:04 pm

hunduel wrote:
Can you make a rule book or just a written extraction of the video? I only can watch videos when I'm home but I could read a text even when I'm travelling (and recently I go by train a lot).

However, your playgroup seems interesting with some great characters, and the scenario seems like a good what-if scenario. Feel free to keep this thread updated! I'd definitely be interested!
I have a plan on making a rule book. I've got to get more experience with the system. I'm at about 60 hours now. I'll probably have a better idea on a solid conveyance of rules at about 100 hours.
Mostly, I have to get through the difficult to moderate portions of story line. The androids (who are immensely and increasingly powerful but have no power level), Cell (Who has to suffer total destruction or comes back increasingly powerful), and finally Buu (who can absorb all players, and gain their abilities).

Fusion is pretty simple, and is basically the same process I use as when two adults make a child (though the child isn't as powerful as a fusion, just a melding of the skill set).

The last few pages of the book will have to cover issues that a moderator will run into when players can make any wish they want, when they're overpowered and unsuccessful or severely under powered and extremely successful.

Most recently they faced their first android threat: 13, 14, and 15 (and the eventual super android 13). It was the longest combat so far. The entire session was one battle. Before this session, they would have covered 2-3 arcs with a few battles each in a session. They lacked the good 'ol stopping power required to put the androids down outright, so they had to go through the trouble of dis-assembling each one until it no longer functioned, in combat.

To give you example, nobody in the group has hit that "super sayajin" level. The greatest evolution anyone has had was the sync with Nail from Namek, and as you know, that's very far below super sayajin. When Future Trunks showed up initially, he was the only super sayajin and had a lot of trouble conveying to the group just how powerful the androids were, and how even his supreme power was nowhere near enough.

Future Trunks showed up once Super Android 13 was formed from the remains of the other androids, and by himself would have been unable to defeat Super Android 13. SSJ Future trunks at this point had a power level of 202,000,000. The strongest party member among the players was Vegeta, who still had his Oozaru form, and in Oozaru form he topped out at 15,000,000. There has also been an android in the group who, without power level, is dependent on good attack rolls versus the enemy and bad attack rolls versus him in order to establish effectiveness and durability.

Androids 13, 14, 15 and Super Android 13 had more than enough power to kill each party member, but their attack rolls didn't snuff anyone out. The lowest any player character got was ~45% health. The players really only had 3 options for terminating the androids by force. Option 1: a destructo-disk like attack held by the namekian. Option 2: Trunks. Option 3: The party's android. Like the enemies, the players lacked any significantly positive attack rolls for most of the battle. This makes it progressively harder to defeat androids. Even Future Trunks (NPC) failed any positive opportunity he had to destroy the enemy.

In the end they disabled the Androids' sensors through attrition, cut a hole in each one's body (mostly by removing the head), again, through attrition. And then the party's android would, during combat, reach in and scoop out the enemy's insides until the enemy was no longer combat viable.

Because all of the holes put in the enemy androids' bodies were the neck or chest, their chest-bombs were among the first items removed, purely coincidental. The androids would have detonated once they could no longer fight or flee, and their detonation would have occurred each time, after the bomb was removed (so it no longer functioned).

They lucked out on super android 13, because removing his head removed the components that made him transform. He reverted to regular old android 13 (LOOK AT MY TRUCKER HAT), and he was disassembled while fighting blind.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by hunduel » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:05 pm

SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta wrote:
hunduel wrote:
Can you make a rule book or just a written extraction of the video? I only can watch videos when I'm home but I could read a text even when I'm travelling (and recently I go by train a lot).

However, your playgroup seems interesting with some great characters, and the scenario seems like a good what-if scenario. Feel free to keep this thread updated! I'd definitely be interested!
I have a plan on making a rule book. I've got to get more experience with the system. I'm at about 60 hours now. I'll probably have a better idea on a solid conveyance of rules at about 100 hours.
Mostly, I have to get through the difficult to moderate portions of story line. The androids (who are immensely and increasingly powerful but have no power level), Cell (Who has to suffer total destruction or comes back increasingly powerful), and finally Buu (who can absorb all players, and gain their abilities).

Fusion is pretty simple, and is basically the same process I use as when two adults make a child (though the child isn't as powerful as a fusion, just a melding of the skill set).

The last few pages of the book will have to cover issues that a moderator will run into when players can make any wish they want, when they're overpowered and unsuccessful or severely under powered and extremely successful.

Most recently they faced their first android threat: 13, 14, and 15 (and the eventual super android 13). It was the longest combat so far. The entire session was one battle. Before this session, they would have covered 2-3 arcs with a few battles each in a session. They lacked the good 'ol stopping power required to put the androids down outright, so they had to go through the trouble of dis-assembling each one until it no longer functioned, in combat.

To give you example, nobody in the group has hit that "super sayajin" level. The greatest evolution anyone has had was the sync with Nail from Namek, and as you know, that's very far below super sayajin. When Future Trunks showed up initially, he was the only super sayajin and had a lot of trouble conveying to the group just how powerful the androids were, and how even his supreme power was nowhere near enough.

Future Trunks showed up once Super Android 13 was formed from the remains of the other androids, and by himself would have been unable to defeat Super Android 13. SSJ Future trunks at this point had a power level of 202,000,000. The strongest party member among the players was Vegeta, who still had his Oozaru form, and in Oozaru form he topped out at 15,000,000. There has also been an android in the group who, without power level, is dependent on good attack rolls versus the enemy and bad attack rolls versus him in order to establish effectiveness and durability.

Androids 13, 14, 15 and Super Android 13 had more than enough power to kill each party member, but their attack rolls didn't snuff anyone out. The lowest any player character got was ~45% health. The players really only had 3 options for terminating the androids by force. Option 1: a destructo-disk like attack held by the namekian. Option 2: Trunks. Option 3: The party's android. Like the enemies, the players lacked any significantly positive attack rolls for most of the battle. This makes it progressively harder to defeat androids. Even Future Trunks (NPC) failed any positive opportunity he had to destroy the enemy.

In the end they disabled the Androids' sensors through attrition, cut a hole in each one's body (mostly by removing the head), again, through attrition. And then the party's android would, during combat, reach in and scoop out the enemy's insides until the enemy was no longer combat viable.

Because all of the holes put in the enemy androids' bodies were the neck or chest, their chest-bombs were among the first items removed, purely coincidental. The androids would have detonated once they could no longer fight or flee, and their detonation would have occurred each time, after the bomb was removed (so it no longer functioned).

They lucked out on super android 13, because removing his head removed the components that made him transform. He reverted to regular old android 13 (LOOK AT MY TRUCKER HAT), and he was disassembled while fighting blind.
Seems really interesting, the fact that you integrated some "non-canon" stuff into the gameplay not only made it more unique, but also enjoyable to read about too, especially with the what-if (custom) characters.

What saga did you start the game, though? Did you do any of the DB stuff, or started the game by the time Raditz arrives? Also, how do you decide if a character replaces another? By having the same character role, or having a similar role gameplay-wise? For example, if someone creates a Saiyan who was sent to earth as a child and became good, would it replace Goku?

I also saved the videos, hopefully I will have the time to at least listen the first part at the weekend. >_>

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Re: Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:40 pm

hunduel wrote:
Seems really interesting, the fact that you integrated some "non-canon" stuff into the gameplay not only made it more unique, but also enjoyable to read about too, especially with the what-if (custom) characters.

What saga did you start the game, though? Did you do any of the DB stuff, or started the game by the time Raditz arrives? Also, how do you decide if a character replaces another? By having the same character role, or having a similar role gameplay-wise? For example, if someone creates a Saiyan who was sent to earth as a child and became good, would it replace Goku?

I also saved the videos, hopefully I will have the time to at least listen the first part at the weekend. >_>

The timeline. I started with Garlic Jr. Then Radditz. Then Kakarot. Then Lord Slug (but he wasn't as powerful because lord slug is post Vegeta).

As far as replacing characters, yes, you're right about replacing Goku. The idea is, that as a GM in a game, you really don't want to take someone, who is say, a bard, and put them along side a more powerful NPC bard that will always be a better bard than they will ever be. That stunts a character.

So, I put in a different saya-jin that first traveled to earth and made Goku come after Radditz. This way the group wouldn't "Always and forever be waiting on or dependent on Goku".

Humans don't necessarily need to replace anyone unless the player wants to be that person. For example, If someone wants to play a Krillin-like character, or Krillin, then Krillin is gone and they take his role. Again, no use in them playing along side of an NPC that will forever outdo them.

Other replacements in this current campaign include a namekian which replaced Piccolo. He has fused with Nail and is the other half of Kami, so he is the roll of Piccolo.

There's another namekian who wanted to be a healer, so he replaced Dende, but started out on earth as an assistant to Kami, so he also replaced Mr. Popo. His roll will be to take over guardianship of the earth and the earth's dragonballs once Kami passes, just like Dende.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by hunduel » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:17 pm

SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta wrote:The timeline. I started with Garlic Jr. Then Radditz. Then Kakarot. Then Lord Slug (but he wasn't as powerful because lord slug is post Vegeta).

As far as replacing characters, yes, you're right about replacing Goku. The idea is, that as a GM in a game, you really don't want to take someone, who is say, a bard, and put them along side a more powerful NPC bard that will always be a better bard than they will ever be. That stunts a character.

So, I put in a different saya-jin that first traveled to earth and made Goku come after Radditz. This way the group wouldn't "Always and forever be waiting on or dependent on Goku".

Humans don't necessarily need to replace anyone unless the player wants to be that person. For example, If someone wants to play a Krillin-like character, or Krillin, then Krillin is gone and they take his role. Again, no use in them playing along side of an NPC that will forever outdo them.

Other replacements in this current campaign include a namekian which replaced Piccolo. He has fused with Nail and is the other half of Kami, so he is the roll of Piccolo.

There's another namekian who wanted to be a healer, so he replaced Dende, but started out on earth as an assistant to Kami, so he also replaced Mr. Popo. His roll will be to take over guardianship of the earth and the earth's dragonballs once Kami passes, just like Dende.
Now I've watched the videos (fortunately I had enough time) so I kind of understand the gameplay now. Of course I have a few questions in regards of some details, but I'll wait until the rule book is released, as you may probably finalize these things by then.

As for this alternate timeline, I really like it, especially since you not only incorporated some of the movies, but also somewhat balanced out the gap between the power levels. Are post-Freeza Arc villains much stronger than Freeza was, or is he (one of the) strongest villains and the others are just barely stronger than him (if any stronger at all)? Or did you keep the power levels similar to OG DBZ?

I have some questions, though:
- Is it possible to start the game at one of the OG DB sagas? (Like the Tournament Saga) If so, does gameplay change to fit to the more "balanced" nature of that saga?
- If someone wants to create a character that is similar to a character that appears LATER in the saga (for example, a Bio-Android similar to Cell, but during the Saiyan Saga - nothing powerful as no absorbed humans, but the same "concept"), would it replace that character and the villain/hero itself is replaced with someone else, or will they just be different characters on their own?
- How do you play out the filler stuff? Are you creating totally new and unique scenarios fitting the characters and the overall group, or do you follow the "canon" by that way too (except if the game is already in a completely different direction).

I probably will have many other questions as the conversation goes on, so I will stop here for now. :)

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Re: Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:03 pm

hunduel wrote:
Now I've watched the videos (fortunately I had enough time) so I kind of understand the gameplay now. Of course I have a few questions in regards of some details, but I'll wait until the rule book is released, as you may probably finalize these things by then.

As for this alternate timeline, I really like it, especially since you not only incorporated some of the movies, but also somewhat balanced out the gap between the power levels. Are post-Freeza Arc villains much stronger than Freeza was, or is he (one of the) strongest villains and the others are just barely stronger than him (if any stronger at all)? Or did you keep the power levels similar to OG DBZ?

I have some questions, though:
- Is it possible to start the game at one of the OG DB sagas? (Like the Tournament Saga) If so, does gameplay change to fit to the more "balanced" nature of that saga?
- If someone wants to create a character that is similar to a character that appears LATER in the saga (for example, a Bio-Android similar to Cell, but during the Saiyan Saga - nothing powerful as no absorbed humans, but the same "concept"), would it replace that character and the villain/hero itself is replaced with someone else, or will they just be different characters on their own?
- How do you play out the filler stuff? Are you creating totally new and unique scenarios fitting the characters and the overall group, or do you follow the "canon" by that way too (except if the game is already in a completely different direction).

I probably will have many other questions as the conversation goes on, so I will stop here for now. :)

Ask away about the details. In this part of the setup and play-testing, questions can help a lot. Answers to your questions could end up being a solid addition to the end rule book.

The post-Freeza Arc villains have a standard power. I might have to change Cell a bit, and Majin-buu will be power dependent upon those he absorbs. The androids, as I've mentioned are a different matter. They're easily supposed to be able to murder Freeza if they can put up with super saya-jins. But they don't have a battle power. Their power level is 0. So it's all based on how their attacks and defense rolls play out against each unique assault. They way I've handled this in the first encounter (super android 13 and his compatriots), was that those initial rolls were higher than Freeza would get, because they're supposed to be stronger than him. Everybody rolled below average which is why the battle took so long. Nobody could take anyone else out, even SSJ Trunks rolled below average.

When it comes to androids 16-19, they'll all get two dice per roll, with the highest roll being the one that's used. Apply the same principal, that they should be stronger than Freeza, or even at an advantage against SSJ Trunks, and you have a severely uphill battle like in the series, as their rolls are likely to be better than average, which will make them progressively more dangerous. Everything including and after Cell has good 'ol power levels to bank on, although if they kill Cell without achieving super-sayajin... the enemies won't be as strong in response, because the enemies won't have to outdo a sudden 50x leap in power. Base form Majin Buu being an exception. His power was not reliant upon a super-sayajin enemy. He grew much stronger by absorbing them, but he was just as potent without them at the start. His evolutions won't have the power boost of absorbing Mystic Gohan, etc. They'll be much lower based on the party.

You can start the timeline in Dragon Ball. The moderator, as well as some of the group should have good knowledge of the original series if you want to pull this off. I've only seen one season. Gameplay would definitely change. The 12-point scale would never be exceeded in OG DB. The first time the 12 point scale I use was exceeded in Cannon was probably Vegeta wiping Napa out, if not Vegeta's destruction of the bug planet. I stand corrected. Piccolo blew up the moon, that's the first time the 12 point scale would be breached.

When you talk about replacing characters, it's not often I would replace villains, unless there's a ton of them. For example, the party's Android is aesthetically based on Android 16. There are PLENTY of androids, so I could take out 16 from the story line without significant impact. He never existed in Future Trunks' timeline anyways. It's not often that the players would have to replace a villain. Especially in DBZ, the villains are somewhat limited in number. In DB, it would be more plausible to replace some villains if you want, because they were plentiful. If you're going to continue to draw from the storyline and you remove too many villains, you'll have to add original villains or you'll have a shorter timeline.

I'll also go back to my previous note on replacement, as it is usually discussed with the player upon character gen.
SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta wrote:
The idea is, that as a GM in a game, you really don't want to take someone, who is say, a bard, and put them along side a more powerful NPC bard that will always be a better bard than they will ever be. That stunts a character.

So, I put in a different saya-jin that first traveled to earth and made Goku come after Radditz. This way the group wouldn't "Always and forever be waiting on or dependent on Goku".

Humans don't necessarily need to replace anyone unless the player wants to be that person. For example, If someone wants to play a Krillin-like character, or Krillin, then Krillin is gone and they take his role. Again, no use in them playing along side of an NPC that will forever outdo them.


Finally, the filler stuff and the storyline.

The galaxy is a large place, and many things were set in motion outside of the happenings on earth. Brolly is an example. If Goku died as a baby when he was sent to earth and DB never happened, Brolly would still exist in all his power. Likely he'd have been the end of Vegeta and Freeza.

So, keeping that in mind, the fun, the power that I give to the player characters, is that they can affect the timeline and derail the cannon. So long as they're good enough not to 'meta-game' (start off when radditz arrives and go to Gero's lab and destroy all the androids/cell), I'm happy to let them alter the story through their actions, successes and failures. They get a much wealthier investment of their time that way.

Until I have the system ironed out I'll stick to the events in cannon, but mix them up a bit. Once I have confidence in the system, then I can take a more homebrew approach. Creating a DB universe from scratch that's still interesting to the fans is no small undertaking. And it would have to include content from cannon, or why bother? Even if it's just: "Yeah, you guys were universe 3, and now you have to face universe 7 in the tournament of destruction." at the very end of it all.

Filler. It's all pretty quick. Battle prep and battle take most of the time. Filler is handled during training blocks. Training blocks are the year(s) of peace between enemies. Since each person has two characters, they get to choose to invest in one or both for training from the same time pool. That is, if you have 3 years, you don't get 3 per character, you get a total of 3 to use as you like.

When a character isn't being used or training, that's when they're goofing off, going to the zoo, learning how to drive, having birthday parties, etc. We don't have to play out much filler unless it's significant to the roleplay (Like marriage, making hybrid children, collecting the dragonballs during peacetime, doing the world tournament or space travel). Again, a lot of this is in the hands of the players. A clock is ticking down until the next world-ending enemy shows up, "what do you guys want to do now?"

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Re: Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by hunduel » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:28 pm

SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta wrote:Ask away about the details. In this part of the setup and play-testing, questions can help a lot. Answers to your questions could end up being a solid addition to the end rule book.

The post-Freeza Arc villains have a standard power. I might have to change Cell a bit, and Majin-buu will be power dependent upon those he absorbs. The androids, as I've mentioned are a different matter. They're easily supposed to be able to murder Freeza if they can put up with super saya-jins. But they don't have a battle power. Their power level is 0. So it's all based on how their attacks and defense rolls play out against each unique assault. They way I've handled this in the first encounter (super android 13 and his compatriots), was that those initial rolls were higher than Freeza would get, because they're supposed to be stronger than him. Everybody rolled below average which is why the battle took so long. Nobody could take anyone else out, even SSJ Trunks rolled below average.

When it comes to androids 16-19, they'll all get two dice per roll, with the highest roll being the one that's used. Apply the same principal, that they should be stronger than Freeza, or even at an advantage against SSJ Trunks, and you have a severely uphill battle like in the series, as their rolls are likely to be better than average, which will make them progressively more dangerous. Everything including and after Cell has good 'ol power levels to bank on, although if they kill Cell without achieving super-sayajin... the enemies won't be as strong in response, because the enemies won't have to outdo a sudden 50x leap in power. Base form Majin Buu being an exception. His power was not reliant upon a super-sayajin enemy. He grew much stronger by absorbing them, but he was just as potent without them at the start. His evolutions won't have the power boost of absorbing Mystic Gohan, etc. They'll be much lower based on the party.

You can start the timeline in Dragon Ball. The moderator, as well as some of the group should have good knowledge of the original series if you want to pull this off. I've only seen one season. Gameplay would definitely change. The 12-point scale would never be exceeded in OG DB. The first time the 12 point scale I use was exceeded in Cannon was probably Vegeta wiping Napa out, if not Vegeta's destruction of the bug planet. I stand corrected. Piccolo blew up the moon, that's the first time the 12 point scale would be breached.

When you talk about replacing characters, it's not often I would replace villains, unless there's a ton of them. For example, the party's Android is aesthetically based on Android 16. There are PLENTY of androids, so I could take out 16 from the story line without significant impact. He never existed in Future Trunks' timeline anyways. It's not often that the players would have to replace a villain. Especially in DBZ, the villains are somewhat limited in number. In DB, it would be more plausible to replace some villains if you want, because they were plentiful. If you're going to continue to draw from the storyline and you remove too many villains, you'll have to add original villains or you'll have a shorter timeline.

I'll also go back to my previous note on replacement, as it is usually discussed with the player upon character gen.

Finally, the filler stuff and the storyline.

The galaxy is a large place, and many things were set in motion outside of the happenings on earth. Brolly is an example. If Goku died as a baby when he was sent to earth and DB never happened, Brolly would still exist in all his power. Likely he'd have been the end of Vegeta and Freeza.

So, keeping that in mind, the fun, the power that I give to the player characters, is that they can affect the timeline and derail the cannon. So long as they're good enough not to 'meta-game' (start off when radditz arrives and go to Gero's lab and destroy all the androids/cell), I'm happy to let them alter the story through their actions, successes and failures. They get a much wealthier investment of their time that way.

Until I have the system ironed out I'll stick to the events in cannon, but mix them up a bit. Once I have confidence in the system, then I can take a more homebrew approach. Creating a DB universe from scratch that's still interesting to the fans is no small undertaking. And it would have to include content from cannon, or why bother? Even if it's just: "Yeah, you guys were universe 3, and now you have to face universe 7 in the tournament of destruction." at the very end of it all.

Filler. It's all pretty quick. Battle prep and battle take most of the time. Filler is handled during training blocks. Training blocks are the year(s) of peace between enemies. Since each person has two characters, they get to choose to invest in one or both for training from the same time pool. That is, if you have 3 years, you don't get 3 per character, you get a total of 3 to use as you like.

When a character isn't being used or training, that's when they're goofing off, going to the zoo, learning how to drive, having birthday parties, etc. We don't have to play out much filler unless it's significant to the roleplay (Like marriage, making hybrid children, collecting the dragonballs during peacetime, doing the world tournament or space travel). Again, a lot of this is in the hands of the players. A clock is ticking down until the next world-ending enemy shows up, "what do you guys want to do now?"
I definitely will! (Quoting TFS Cell: "I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS!!")

So aside from a very few amount of characters, they are somewhat fixed. But as you've said, Cell may be an exception. I think he should be, as not only the game will have more access to different jinzou-ningens (who could be absorbed by Cell), but also his (or maybe even her?) whole DNA would be based on the characters in the game. As, for example, the team has a character from a race they didn't have knowledge of (like a Yardrat or an Arlian), Cell would may have access to completely different moves. Speaking of PC jinzou-ningens: if they are more of cyborgs rather than androids, could Cell absorb them with a great roll?

Who do have to know about the OG DB's timeline? Of course the GM should, but who else? Players who are taking the roles of characters?

Speaking of replacing characters, I somewhat see now why you think replacing villains is a bad idea. In fact, in some arcs only a few of them are represented (like in the Android Saga). So in this case it's just easier to treat it as a new one, with a bit more interesting race.

The whole canon/non-canon/filler stuff which makes this an interesting experience in my opinion. As a GM, trying to follow the canon while the players are altering it by even the smallest decisions make it an always unique experience. Speaking of canon/non-canon, I have a few questions again.
- Can the players save or kill characters whose fate is the very opposite? Like, for example, kill Vegeta, but save the life of Raditz and Kakarot.
- Speaking of Kakarot, could his character be fused/replace with Turles and his own arc?
- What if someone either incidentally or directly notices something that would completely alter the timeline? For example, if someone notices the "tracking bugs" of Dr. Gero after they fought Vegeta?
- Not really a canon-related question, but how do you determine the power of the different Dragon Balls? What they can and cannot do in the lore? For example, post-Piccolo Saga but pre-Saiyan saga, could they wish for Launch to be two different people rather than one person with split personality? Would it exceed the limits of Shenron? Would it exceed the limits of Porunga?

Now let's go back to fillers. If I understand correctly, each player may have two characters, but they cannot train them both at the same time? Or they can, but their "training point" runs out faster? Also, can they move on their own or are they stack together and can move/discover things only as a team?

And last, but not least, how do you determine the success of the training and the power level after it? And how would RoSaT work compared to the usual (and unusual) training methods?

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Re: Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:41 pm

hunduel wrote:
I definitely will! (Quoting TFS Cell: "I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS!!")

So aside from a very few amount of characters, they are somewhat fixed. But as you've said, Cell may be an exception. I think he should be, as not only the game will have more access to different jinzou-ningens (who could be absorbed by Cell), but also his (or maybe even her?) whole DNA would be based on the characters in the game. As, for example, the team has a character from a race they didn't have knowledge of (like a Yardrat or an Arlian), Cell would may have access to completely different moves. Speaking of PC jinzou-ningens: if they are more of cyborgs rather than androids, could Cell absorb them with a great roll?
Cell could fees-ably absorb any non-android. He was built specifically to absorb 17 and 18. Perhaps he could absorb 20, but 16 and 19 are off the table. They have to have biomaterial. On a side note, I know I'll get chastised for this, but every time I hear jinzou-ningens, I hear "Ginger N*****s". And then think of Android 16 acting all street.
hunduel wrote:
Who do have to know about the OG DB's timeline? Of course the GM should, but who else? Players who are taking the roles of characters?
The GM would have to have full knowledge of any timeline they wish to implement. This is the bare minimum, or the GM will have to improvise, which may or may not work. The more knowledge the players have, the smoother gameplay will go. If the players have no knowledge, everything will have to be explained to them continually. So, at a minimum, again, the GM would have to have full knowledge of any timeline they wish to implement.

If you have at least one other player with full knowledge, they can explain to one another and that saves the GM some exposition time.
hunduel wrote:
The whole canon/non-canon/filler stuff which makes this an interesting experience in my opinion. As a GM, trying to follow the canon while the players are altering it by even the smallest decisions make it an always unique experience. Speaking of canon/non-canon, I have a few questions again.
- Can the players save or kill characters whose fate is the very opposite? Like, for example, kill Vegeta, but save the life of Raditz and Kakarot.
- Speaking of Kakarot, could his character be fused/replace with Turles and his own arc?
- What if someone either incidentally or directly notices something that would completely alter the timeline? For example, if someone notices the "tracking bugs" of Dr. Gero after they fought Vegeta?
- Not really a canon-related question, but how do you determine the power of the different Dragon Balls? What they can and cannot do in the lore? For example, post-Piccolo Saga but pre-Saiyan saga, could they wish for Launch to be two different people rather than one person with split personality? Would it exceed the limits of Shenron? Would it exceed the limits of Porunga?
Players can save or kill characters. They killed Radditz, they killed Goku.

They 'turned' Vegeta towards defending the earth. They 'captured' Nappa and the scientist put his brain into Nappa's body. So... Dr. Nappa.
They killed all of the Ginyu force, except Recoome. The psychic in the group is really good against bufoons (she captured Nappa), so she brainwashed Recoome into becoming the Guardian of the new elder after Guru passed. so Recoome, dressed in Namekian fighter garb, is 'new' Nail, after Nail fused and became part of the Earth's defense force.

Fusion requires the earrings or the dance. Nobody's died. Nobody knows about the Kai's. Nobody has traveled or met any metamorians.

The only one that could notice tracking bugs (maybe) would be a scientist. I don't think the bugs could be noticed without "meta-gaming". Generally I keep the players from doing things their characters wouldn't know about, or, because the game is supposed to be challenging and fun, if the players are going to do something that upsets the timeline in a way that they'll never face hardship, I warn them that the game will be boring, and they usually change their actions. Such an example would be characters with an endless lifespan training for thousands of years in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. It makes things boring.

The power of the Dragon Balls. Well, that's simple. All the Gen 1 Dragon Balls are pretty laid out in the series. We know how strong Shenron was. We know how strong Purunga was. Every new set of Dragon Balls is just like in the series until they're modified.

For example, Immortality. It is only available on Shenron until Kami goes away. It is only available on Purunga until Guru goes away. Once a new Namekian takes over, Immortality is out the window. However, on Eyarth, Dende re-made Shenron for two wishes. Our "Dende" character is significantly stronger than Dende was. So I'll still allow the augment to two wishes, but they will be more powerful.

The easiest route to determine the power limit of the wishes is 'ex machina'. Will the wish make gameplay too easy and boring with no challenge? Then it is far beyond the dragon's power. Will the wish make the game unplayable or unenjoyable?
Then it is far beyond the dragon's power.

Don't forget that (and only the Kai's say this after the bad stuff happens) the dragonballs are only meant to be used every 100 years, and excessive use leads towards the happenings of GT.
hunduel wrote:
Now let's go back to fillers. If I understand correctly, each player may have two characters, but they cannot train them both at the same time? Or they can, but their "training point" runs out faster? Also, can they move on their own or are they stack together and can move/discover things only as a team?

And last, but not least, how do you determine the success of the training and the power level after it? And how would RoSaT work compared to the usual (and unusual) training methods?
Players can act independently. When they aren't specifically acting or training, they're enjoying life, having ice cream, etc. They can choose to discover things on their own, but I always ask first for group ambitions.

As far as the Room of Spirit and Time (RoSaT or Hyperbolic Time Chamber). I've had to keep that from the players. First they'd have to be on good terms with Kami, then they'd have to need the chamber. These guys haven't been destroyed yet, NO DEATHS, so Kami hasn't thought they've needed it. When it becomes available, it will most likely just increase their "off time". So they get three years of training, but really it's 3 days spread apart by 2+ years of screwing off and enjoying life.

I haven't really worked out the dynamic of the Time chamber yet, because players are smart, the Z fighters are dumb, and players would never stop training 300 days a year into godhood. It can ruin the storyline. In the meantime, I think the first step for them using the time chamber will be for them to be able to grant the full training time to each of their characters instead of splitting it among them. I haven't thought of a happy medium.

Okay, the success or failure of training. They are more likely to rank up, or rank up faster under an appropriate master/training partner. They also rank up faster if they have a "Training" type. "Inheritence" Type counts the same as "Training" Type when you're learning from family if applicable. (Like Videl learning the Dynamite Kick from Hercule, etc. Or Gohan learning SSJ and Kamehameha from Goku.)

There is a flat rate of time you can invest for a guaranteed rank up on your move(s) or type(s). The higher the grade, the more time required. If you want to do it earlier, or if you want to train things that sync well together (Like training a speed type & a speed move at the same time), then there's a die roll required. There will be the minimum benefit for your time spent, and a maximum benefit. Unless you roll high enough, you get the minimum benefit.

The die requirement depends on how risky the training is or how much 'extra' you're trying to get.

For example. Let's say you wanted to spend a year to get a "Speed" type with Rank C. A very easy roll (like 3 or above on a d8) would also grant you a D rank speed move (like After Image) where a roll like 7 or 8 on a d8 would grant you a C rank speed move (and then the two would sync to rank B when used). It's down to negotiation and how much gambling the player wishes to do. I try to limit players to one gamble per training block.

Lastly, the two characters owned by a single player are deemed "Mutually Exclusive." They might know one another, but they're never working together, and they never train together, and they never assist one another, and they can never be acting on the same battlefield. One character is being used at a time.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by hunduel » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:30 pm

Sorry for the late response, but here I am again.
SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta wrote:The GM would have to have full knowledge of any timeline they wish to implement. This is the bare minimum, or the GM will have to improvise, which may or may not work. The more knowledge the players have, the smoother gameplay will go. If the players have no knowledge, everything will have to be explained to them continually. So, at a minimum, again, the GM would have to have full knowledge of any timeline they wish to implement.

If you have at least one other player with full knowledge, they can explain to one another and that saves the GM some exposition time.
So in other words, if you're planning to move away from the canon really early, you only have to be familiar with the really major elements of the show? For example, if you include two additional martial art schools and make them rival with each other, some characters joining the other instead of (most of them) being Turtle School students, some minor characters becoming major characters and vice versa, do they really need to know about them or is it enough if the GM has knowledge about the original things?

Probably the only thing that would make DB a bit harder to play is the power scaling, so either the GM have to make the scales more close to each other in contrary to the shows, or be more careful with the numbers, right?
SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta wrote:Players can save or kill characters. They killed Radditz, they killed Goku.

They 'turned' Vegeta towards defending the earth. They 'captured' Nappa and the scientist put his brain into Nappa's body. So... Dr. Nappa.
They killed all of the Ginyu force, except Recoome. The psychic in the group is really good against bufoons (she captured Nappa), so she brainwashed Recoome into becoming the Guardian of the new elder after Guru passed. so Recoome, dressed in Namekian fighter garb, is 'new' Nail, after Nail fused and became part of the Earth's defense force.

Fusion requires the earrings or the dance. Nobody's died. Nobody knows about the Kai's. Nobody has traveled or met any metamorians.
Wow, that scenario with the Nappa sounds interesting. Also Recoome becoming a good guy this way is funny as hell... I mean, HFIL

Sorry, poor choice of words. What I meant is replacing Kakarot with Turles completely, not fusion in the DBZ way.
SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta wrote:The only one that could notice tracking bugs (maybe) would be a scientist. I don't think the bugs could be noticed without "meta-gaming". Generally I keep the players from doing things their characters wouldn't know about, or, because the game is supposed to be challenging and fun, if the players are going to do something that upsets the timeline in a way that they'll never face hardship, I warn them that the game will be boring, and they usually change their actions. Such an example would be characters with an endless lifespan training for thousands of years in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. It makes things boring.

The power of the Dragon Balls. Well, that's simple. All the Gen 1 Dragon Balls are pretty laid out in the series. We know how strong Shenron was. We know how strong Purunga was. Every new set of Dragon Balls is just like in the series until they're modified.

For example, Immortality. It is only available on Shenron until Kami goes away. It is only available on Purunga until Guru goes away. Once a new Namekian takes over, Immortality is out the window. However, on Eyarth, Dende re-made Shenron for two wishes. Our "Dende" character is significantly stronger than Dende was. So I'll still allow the augment to two wishes, but they will be more powerful.

The easiest route to determine the power limit of the wishes is 'ex machina'. Will the wish make gameplay too easy and boring with no challenge? Then it is far beyond the dragon's power. Will the wish make the game unplayable or unenjoyable?
Then it is far beyond the dragon's power.
So if it is fitting the story, some foreshadowing is okay, but if it makes the game tool stale, just warn them, right?

(Also, keeping RoSaT the way it was introduced by one person can use it only for 2 days (2 outside years) makes it extremely balanced.)

So in other words, for the wishes, if it makes the game more interesting, then it can be included, but if it makes it stale/boring and/or broken, then nah.
SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta wrote:Don't forget that (and only the Kai's say this after the bad stuff happens) the dragonballs are only meant to be used every 100 years, and excessive use leads towards the happenings of GT.
I'm not familiar with GT at all (I only know that there is a SSJ4 and that's all), so if anything, I'd exclude anything referred to there from a scenario if I was the DM. >_>
SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta wrote:Players can act independently. When they aren't specifically acting or training, they're enjoying life, having ice cream, etc. They can choose to discover things on their own, but I always ask first for group ambitions.

As far as the Room of Spirit and Time (RoSaT or Hyperbolic Time Chamber). I've had to keep that from the players. First they'd have to be on good terms with Kami, then they'd have to need the chamber. These guys haven't been destroyed yet, NO DEATHS, so Kami hasn't thought they've needed it. When it becomes available, it will most likely just increase their "off time". So they get three years of training, but really it's 3 days spread apart by 2+ years of screwing off and enjoying life.

I haven't really worked out the dynamic of the Time chamber yet, because players are smart, the Z fighters are dumb, and players would never stop training 300 days a year into godhood. It can ruin the storyline. In the meantime, I think the first step for them using the time chamber will be for them to be able to grant the full training time to each of their characters instead of splitting it among them. I haven't thought of a happy medium.

Okay, the success or failure of training. They are more likely to rank up, or rank up faster under an appropriate master/training partner. They also rank up faster if they have a "Training" type. "Inheritence" Type counts the same as "Training" Type when you're learning from family if applicable. (Like Videl learning the Dynamite Kick from Hercule, etc. Or Gohan learning SSJ and Kamehameha from Goku.)

There is a flat rate of time you can invest for a guaranteed rank up on your move(s) or type(s). The higher the grade, the more time required. If you want to do it earlier, or if you want to train things that sync well together (Like training a speed type & a speed move at the same time), then there's a die roll required. There will be the minimum benefit for your time spent, and a maximum benefit. Unless you roll high enough, you get the minimum benefit.

The die requirement depends on how risky the training is or how much 'extra' you're trying to get.

For example. Let's say you wanted to spend a year to get a "Speed" type with Rank C. A very easy roll (like 3 or above on a d8) would also grant you a D rank speed move (like After Image) where a roll like 7 or 8 on a d8 would grant you a C rank speed move (and then the two would sync to rank B when used). It's down to negotiation and how much gambling the player wishes to do. I try to limit players to one gamble per training block.

Lastly, the two characters owned by a single player are deemed "Mutually Exclusive." They might know one another, but they're never working together, and they never train together, and they never assist one another, and they can never be acting on the same battlefield. One character is being used at a time.
Oh, I see. Now that makes perfect sense. One question, though: can they run one character instead of 2 "mutually exclusive" characters? If that's the case, introducing more NPCs or "sidekicks" would be a good choice for them to make the game more interesting, or having two characters is a base of your system?

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Re: Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:22 pm

hunduel wrote:
So in other words, if you're planning to move away from the canon really early, you only have to be familiar with the really major elements of the show? For example, if you include two additional martial art schools and make them rival with each other, some characters joining the other instead of (most of them) being Turtle School students, some minor characters becoming major characters and vice versa, do they really need to know about them or is it enough if the GM has knowledge about the original things?
Your players need knowledge of their foundation. So if you were to want rival martial arts schools, source that from the players that want to be part of that school. Have them detail the school and the art.The reason I give these two answers, is because when it comes to combat, each player is using this knowledge to argue about how they should succeed or overcome opponents. If it's not in their heads, they will have only improvisation and the die rolls on their side, while all of the mechanical knowledge lies with the GM. Here's an example:

2 rival school players are fighting against a student of Roshii (Krillin). The GM is in control of Krillin. Both the players and the GM understand how great the Kame-Sennin martial arts are, and that Krillin rivals Goku in DB.

Fight begins.

Why will Krillin be successful?

Answer: His entire record of success in the DB universe.

Why will rival student 1 or 2 be successful?

Answer (If only GM knows details of the martial arts school): Because the players will have better die rolls. -Or- Players ask GM what would make them successful against Krillin, GM tells them, players repeat GM's argument to GM, then it's again back to die rolls.

Answer (If players generate the idea of their school and it's martial art): Because during training, student 1 learned how to fight without relying on eyesight, and student 2 can use Tai Chi against all Ki blasts.

It's the difference between having people play your story, and having them build your story.
hunduel wrote: Probably the only thing that would make DB a bit harder to play is the power scaling, so either the GM have to make the scales more close to each other in contrary to the shows, or be more careful with the numbers, right?
This one's pretty straight forward. Just like in DBZ, DB has referenced power levels. Scale against those. In DB a training increase in power level of 50 points is massively significant. DB was much more technique based. In Z, a training increase in power level of 5000 points means nothing post Vegeta. So it's pretty easy to scale the power levels in reference to the world of DB.

I will add though, that if I start players out in Z at around the level of Goku/Piccolo when they fight Radditz, and I start people out on lesser footing in DB (say so they can stand in the same arena as the other fighters, that if I had a group play through DB, and they were ready to enter into the Z timeline, they would likely be massively more powerful than Radditz when he arrives (which is fine), they aren't likely to outdo Vegeta even if they start out that strong, without proper techniques. So it'd be safe to let them progress in DB to be stronger than their initial Z counterparts.
hunduel wrote: What I meant is replacing Kakarot with Turles completely, not fusion in the DBZ way.
I played around with these ideas originally, and pretty much any sayajin can be swapped out with any other sayajin as long as you keep the power level of the timelines. For example, tons of sayajins look like Goku because that rank of sayajin was breeding stock. You could absolutely make Turless the one who came to earth, and Goku the one who uses the tree of might, and it's really just a name swap. You could even have Vegeta be the Goku character, and his father lead the charge against Freeza, where Bardock is the King of all sayajins and the unlimited Goku brothers (Turles, Kakarot, Radditz, etc.) can be competitive warring princes.

Androids can be swapped out too. For example, take the androids from the super android 13 movie. Instead of 13,14, and 15, you could use 16,17, and 18, and then have the super 13 androids be the leadups to cell (and the ones he needs to absorb). The storyline is pretty durable if you keep the power scaling in line with the timeline.
hunduel wrote: I'm not familiar with GT at all (I only know that there is a SSJ4 and that's all), so if anything, I'd exclude anything referred to there from a scenario if I was the DM. >_>
I'll give you a quick rundown of what I mean with the Dragonballs, as it could be important, even in DB, let alone Z. The GT arc looks back on every wish made on the dragonballs. The balls are only supposed to be used every 100 years. Every time a wish is made, evil energy builds up in the balls. It slowly and harmlessly dies down over the 100 years. Since they used the balls SO MUCH, they had two story arcs where their hubris was visited back upon them.

Omega Shenron was an evil powerful dragon boss birthed from the evil dragonballs.

Separately, the dragonballs turned black and cracked and each one of the 7 formed their own evil dragon boss thing that had to be vanquished to turn the dragonballs back to normal.

The short form of this is, if your group abuses the hell out of the dragonballs, it gives you the excuse to send bosses after them to bar continued use of the Dragonballs. Once they beat the boss, either they'll be more responsible, or the next boss will be harder. You can use this as a story mechanic to bring big bad guys to the party when they've excluded them from the storyline. For example, Let's say that they put every major enemy into the Dead Zone, and nobody wanted to destroy earth anymore forever. The evil dragons spawned from overuse of the dragonballs can turn these enemies loose from the Dead Zone and even empower them if needed.

Players get a lot of roadway with this game system to change their world. A mechanic like this allows you another door to press challenge upon them and keep their altered world interesting, and the mechanic can be used anytime the group uses a set of dragonballs more often than 100 years.
hunduel wrote:Oh, I see. Now that makes perfect sense. One question, though: can they run one character instead of 2 "mutually exclusive" characters? If that's the case, introducing more NPCs or "sidekicks" would be a good choice for them to make the game more interesting, or having two characters is a base of your system?
I'm very experienced as a GM in many different systems. I'm also experienced as a player. Player death is very important as a path to development in the DB universe. In most games, when a player's character dies, they become a spectator for a very long amount of gameplay. Say you play once a month for 10 hours and they die at hour one. You get them in at the end through resurrection or new character gen, but they only get 3 hours of gameplay. This kills the enjoyment for the individual, if not the group.

So I did the 2 character thing as a plan for the planned death of party members. They would have an alternate person, grounded and developed in the world, that they could play while waiting for their main character to return. This way they might only miss out on 30 minutes of gameplay until their secondary character entered the battle.

Also, once the players recruit other characters or gain existing characters (Roshii, Hercule, Tenshinhan, Yamcha) as allies, they are all available for use and development if the player wants to switch out.

Encouraging 2 characters of different types also helped to familiarize players with all the different roles available to them, as well as flesh out play testing.

The last reason for having 2 mutually exclusive characters, is that a player might be playing a fighter among fighters and get bored of it, wishing there was a mage or a scientist in the group. They might be unsatisfied with the groups current scientist or sniper. These two characters are heavily suggested to be of differing roles in gameplay. Don't have both of your characters be the same thing, like both healers, or both assassins, or both cyborgs. The more varied the group is, the more options you have to face the enemy with. If your brute force isn't working, change to your psychic.

Whether owned by a player, or pulled from the pool of available playable NPC's, a player can only run/control one character at a time. So it's not like you have to upkeep all playable characters, as mentioned before: if they're not active, they're out having ice cream, or getting drunk, or at the beach.

I let the group generally pick 1 or 2 sidekicks from the available pool of allies or whoever they can convince to help at the time, but I try not to have too many sidekicks, because then the GM is doing most of the playing, most of the control, and owning most of the victory/failure. The players need to have sway in this universe.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:47 am

I captured some audio samples from last night's play session. (profanity warning)

Here is an example of a training block:

https://youtu.be/Vc-lygJHd4w

And here is the chunk of the battle Vs. Final Form Cooler that killed a party member and made our first Super Sayajin:

https://youtu.be/fi0LqEzeoL4

For reference, the Enemy is Final Form Cooler, clocking in at a cool 470,000,000

The player characters are:

Lee - A Namekian healer, like Dende
He also has an advanced multi-form, so he makes a lot of himself to heal allies. Support Character.

Kaizu - A Sayajin Warrior.
He was part of Bardock's separatist group, found his way to earth, and now swears loyalty to Vegeta as part of the Earth Defense Force.

Mochi - A Sayajin Psychic.
She was the first to land on earth, and still never took fighting seriously, she developed her psychic abilities. Mostly a support character.

Two other warriors, a Namekian and a Sphynx (Beerus race) were already taken from the battlefield in critical condition.

Edit: I'll add a chunk of example gameplay against Android 19 and Dr. Gero (Android 20) when I get it edited properly.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:38 pm

If you're interested in the flow of gameplay, here is ~ 1 hour of recorded play. It covers the group running into Androids 19 & 20 (Dr. Gero.) and fighting until the Androids are dead. Profanity included.

Part 1 of 4

https://youtu.be/IPTqZmuKg3I

Part 2 of 4 (Gero Dies)

https://youtu.be/gdOC0iHndjE

Part 3 of 4

https://youtu.be/3zpDK_eh4TM

Part 4 of 4 (Kill the Clown)

https://youtu.be/AlKMEEDjKgs

I edited out as many coughs as possible.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:15 am

I have all the audio from the battle Vs. Cooler and Cooler Final Form.

Is the crowd interested in it being edited/uploaded?

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Re: Dragon Ball Z tapletop RPG system I'm developing

Post by SSGSSJ4MajinBrojeta » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:23 am

I had questions from a YouTube user, and I'll add the Q & A here:
Heia, thanks for replying. I was already following the kazenshuu forum, but for some reason I'm not able to post there. So, if there is no problem, I will ask questions here.

Which are the criteria for determining exactly what die is rolled? Is there a written follow through for each technique? For example, techniques like Zanzouken would not have high numbers (cause they cannot harm) or would have ceilings (like maximum of 6 in the scale)?

How do you deal with character progression and transformations? Is it entirelly based on conversation or is there a more hard approach number wise? I have devised a few DB adaptations (for FATE, 3det, Daemon and MHR) and I'm actually curious for new systems. I'm still in doubt on whether a crunchier or more free-form narrative system is better for DB.

I'd also like if you could record more sessions. I would like to listen to whole recordings, in order to see the details of how it works in practice.
I have a session coming up on the 16th, I'll record it in it's entirety and upload it. I usually edit for brevity. I cut out coughs, sneezes, "ums" silent spots, irrelevant sidebar, etc. Anything relevant to gameplay, I'll leave in. I'll see If I can't get the fight with base form cooler uploaded tonight.

The free form system works best in my experience. For DB universe stuff. For Naruto, a modified DnD 3 or 3.5 worked great, my friend developed that. You need a hard system for like Naruto, Pokemon, Digimon, etc. For anime worlds like DB and YuYu Hakusho, or Attack on Titan and Fairy Tale, this system will perform better. My friend is developing a run of Fairy Tale on this system right now.

The criteria for each roll... On my very first run of this game, the Alpha run, shall we call it, things were really loose. I thought, how many ways could this attack end? If the attack could end 4 ways, (Miss, scratch, hit, damage) I'd assign a D4, if the attack could end 6 ways (Miss, scratch, hit, damage, combo, wound), I'd assign a d6. I thought I could "weight" the outcomes with a modifier to the roll. In the end, for the Beta runs, the healthy balance I found was to make a scale of results, and to keep the die roll within the expected results. Some moves get a bonus modifier (positive or negative) based on circumstances. In the event of the fight with base form Cooler, Cooler kept bouncing the players off of his ship. When a player got the upper hand on Cooler, he decided to return the favor. I liked the idea so much I increased the size of the die he was rolling for that attack.

As a general guideline, when comparing power levels, the weaker person usually rolls a D6, the stronger person generally rolls a D8 or a d8+1 depending on how hard they want to fight. If the power gap is more than say...double, then the weaker person gets a D6-1 and the stronger person might move to a D10. If the power gap is much more than double... then.. well. look at what you can do with a D4... you can hit the enemy. But for some techniques ( Taiyoken, Kienzan, Dabura's spit) you only need to hit. Now if the player has a high rank on their attack or synergy (A+, S, S+, Z) then they might get a +1 to their roll, or a larger die to roll, it really depends on where their maximum effectiveness could lie. For example, if you think the best a person's ki blast can do against a certain enemy is "singe their hair", then you're looking at a D6-1. If you think they could kill someone, D10+1. As arbiter (moderator) you make your best guess.

Now for techniques like the zanzouken(After Image), you don't really "Hit". You would use it defensively, perhaps adding a negative modifier to whoever is attacking you, or you would use it offensively, perhaps adding a positive modifier to your attack role. The cost is a little stamina. Most fighters are beasts, so really it's free to use, succeed or fail.

As far as character progression and transformations. I do the best I can. Most have a standing power level, and based on what they do or train, I increase their power level by a %. Let's say they gained a "Power Up" type, that's going to raise the ceiling on their power level considerably. By C or B rank they should at least have a ceiling twice as high as their previous. By A or S rank "Power Up" Type, they should be able to at least triple their power, but they have to spend time and energy in combat to get there.

A lot of transformations already have their power modifiers fleshed out, thanks to fans and Kanzenshuu ^_^

I'll stress again, that some anime would require rigid rules. DB is not one of 'em, and I think that's why there are a lot of systems out there, and none of them are renown as the standard. (Not yet anyways...hehe)



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