Tree of Saiyan Might (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

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ChiefWamsutta
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Tree of Saiyan Might (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:02 am

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]


URL for reference: https://orig00.deviantart.net/d464/f/20 ... bssf2b.jpg


This is my favorite version of all the Saiyan forms maps that I have done. It truly looks like a tree, and that is what I was going for.

Great Ape, Saiyan Kaioken, Ultimate, and Ultra Instinct are all separate from the other forms Saiyans have. There is a branch for Super Saiyan, one for Super Saiyan God, and one for Super Saiyan Green (Kale's version of SS1).

Each branch segment begins a new grouping of forms, and the form that would be the trunk it attaches to is a prerequisite. God-enhanced Saiyan and God-enhanced Super Saiyan are my versions of how to explain the powerscaling issues of DBS. Goku achieves God-enhanced Saiyan and God-enhanced Super Saiyan after losing access to SSGod in his fight with Beerus. After training with Whis to perfect his ki control, God-enhanced Saiyan turns into Super Saiyan God and God-enhanced Super Saiyan turns into Super Saiyan Blue. God-enhanced Saiyan and SSGod are the same form, just different levels of ki control (the same applies to God-enhanced Super Saiyan and SSBlue).

Aside from all the controversy in the above paragraph, how does it look? What could I do to make the forms better? What could I do to make the tree better? Have I branched all the forms accordingly?
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UPDATED: I changed the hair color in Super Saiyan Rosé to look more like Toriyama's original drawing i.e. much pinker and softer. I also reduced the bluish color in SSBerserker's hair to make it more yellow-green. I bulked up SSGrade2, SSGrade3, SSGreen, and SSBerserker. Their bodies look as though they have more muscle mass now. I also added height to SSBerserker, since this is a component to the transformation. Lastly, I changed Ultimate entirely. I removed the aura and changed the hair style to SS1 Goku's, but with black hair and eyebrows.
Last edited by ChiefWamsutta on Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:22 am

Is "Majin Super Saiyan" really a form?
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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:13 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Is "Majin Super Saiyan" really a form?
I put it in there because it is not the same thing as Super Saiyan. Just like SSRosé is not the same as SSBlue.

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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:51 am

Isn't it just Super Saiyan while being under Babidi's spell?
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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by hunduel » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:29 am

Even though I like it, here's some nitpicks:

- Ultimate's hair is wrong, it should be more like SSJ's, but with original color instead of blonde.
- UI's missing the aura.
- As others said, Majin is not really a form, even though the power scaling is somewhat different. Keep it if you want, though.
- Berserker's hair should be a bit more yellowish, it's way too green (even almost a bit bluish).

Will you include non-canon forms too, or just canons?

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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:52 pm

hunduel wrote:Even though I like it, here's some nitpicks:

- Ultimate's hair is wrong, it should be more like SSJ's, but with original color instead of blonde.
- UI's missing the aura.
- As others said, Majin is not really a form, even though the power scaling is somewhat different. Keep it if you want, though.
- Berserker's hair should be a bit more yellowish, it's way too green (even almost a bit bluish).

Will you include non-canon forms too, or just canons?
1) Hmmmm, very interesting idea. I had never considered making Ultimate's hair like a black-haired Super Saiyan 1. What is your reasoning for that?

2) I am only doing the auras for those that need auras the most i.e. SSRage, SSB KK, etc.

3) I put in Majin SSFP and Majin SS2 to represent all the "forms" that a Saiyan could be in. We could be here all day discussing what constitutes a form.

4) I'm not too sure where you are seeing a bluish tinge in the hair. Maybe it is a tad too green, and I can try to fix that.

Yes, I only did the canon forms to the anime.

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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by Kaboom » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:18 pm

Your chart seems to be missing two particularly memorable forms... why include stuff that's not even actually Saiyan forms (namely Kaio-Ken, Ultimate, and Ultra Instinct), but exclude what are by far the most distinctly Saiyan forms of all, Gold Oozaru and Super Saiyan 4? I hope not for misplaced concerns about non-existent "canon."
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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:44 pm

Kaboom wrote:Your chart seems to be missing two particularly memorable forms... why include stuff that's not even actually Saiyan forms (namely Kaio-Ken, Ultimate, and Ultra Instinct), but exclude what are by far the most distinctly Saiyan forms of all, Gold Oozaru and Super Saiyan 4? I hope not for misplaced concerns about non-existent "canon."
To be honest, I get this question far too often. If you want to see other images that I have done where I included Golden Great Ape and Super Saiyan 4 go to the URL here: https://chiefwamsutta.deviantart.com/ar ... -688325730

This has nothing to do with canon. All I did was make a tree graphic of every different situation of a Saiyan's looks in the animes Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Kai, and Dragon Ball Super.

I really don't know what word to use other than 'form'. People get far too hung up on that.

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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by emperior » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:42 pm

I would remove the "Majin Super Saiyan", fix Rosè's color, give Ultimate the SSJ hairstyle and also fix Ultra Instinct hair, and add Golden Oozaru and SSJ4. Then it would be perfect.
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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:55 pm

emperior wrote:I would remove the "Majin Super Saiyan", fix Rosè's color, give Ultimate the SSJ hairstyle and also fix Ultra Instinct hair, and add Golden Oozaru and SSJ4. Then it would be perfect.
Thanks for your input. To be honest, I'm really new with Adobe Photoshop, so I don't know how well I could change Ultra Instinct's hair. It was the best I could do with novice-level skills.

I can modify Rosé's hair color, yeah. Darker or lighter? I am aiming to modify SSBerserker to a lighter color.

Someone else above said to change Ultimate's hair to black-haired Super Saiyan 1. Maybe I just screwed up, but Gohan's hair when he first got it was in Base-style, right?

I'll make another one with Golden Great Ape and SS4 added. I really like the Majin concept so I keep it in, but I'll edit it out to make one for you.

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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by hunduel » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:41 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:Hmmmm, very interesting idea. I had never considered making Ultimate's hair like a black-haired Super Saiyan 1. What is your reasoning for that?
1. Goku always had his SSJ-like hair when he used different forms. Even though most of them are non-canon, the Pseudo Super Saiyan and the Super Saiyan Power are the best example of this.
2. During Super, Gohan's hair changes when he achieves his "ultimate" form against Piccolo. This suggests that the hair is different between base form and unlocked potential "forms".

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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:28 pm

hunduel wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:Hmmmm, very interesting idea. I had never considered making Ultimate's hair like a black-haired Super Saiyan 1. What is your reasoning for that?
1. Goku always had his SSJ-like hair when he used different forms. Even though most of them are non-canon, the Pseudo Super Saiyan and the Super Saiyan Power are the best example of this.
2. During Super, Gohan's hair changes when he achieves his "ultimate" form against Piccolo. This suggests that the hair is different between base form and unlocked potential "forms".
Very true about Gohan's bang change in Super. It DOES signify a change in forms from Base to Ultimate. One could argue it looks like his Super Saiyan bang.

I think a requirement of Ultimate is black hair, but the subtle changes in Gohan's hair mean Goku's hair should change.

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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by emperior » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:17 am

ChiefWamsutta wrote:
emperior wrote:I would remove the "Majin Super Saiyan", fix Rosè's color, give Ultimate the SSJ hairstyle and also fix Ultra Instinct hair, and add Golden Oozaru and SSJ4. Then it would be perfect.
Thanks for your input. To be honest, I'm really new with Adobe Photoshop, so I don't know how well I could change Ultra Instinct's hair. It was the best I could do with novice-level skills.

I can modify Rosé's hair color, yeah. Darker or lighter? I am aiming to modify SSBerserker to a lighter color.

Someone else above said to change Ultimate's hair to black-haired Super Saiyan 1. Maybe I just screwed up, but Gohan's hair when he first got it was in Base-style, right?

I'll make another one with Golden Great Ape and SS4 added. I really like the Majin concept so I keep it in, but I'll edit it out to make one for you.
For Rosè's hair color, you should use the one Toriyama used for Black's design. Or you could just put Rosè Black from Toriyama there. I would also put Goku SSG's original design there instead of coloring the RoF design. Though I see what you were going for, but I would like it if there were various designs. For example, you could put a Vegeta or two there, and for SSJ Green and Berserker you could use Kale's designs.
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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:07 am

emperior wrote: For Rosè's hair color, you should use the one Toriyama used for Black's design. Or you could just put Rosè Black from Toriyama there. I would also put Goku SSG's original design there instead of coloring the RoF design. Though I see what you were going for, but I would like it if there were various designs. For example, you could put a Vegeta or two there, and for SSJ Green and Berserker you could use Kale's designs.
The main reason I have Goku in his RoF clothes for each form is that I wanted to keep something constant. Having the clothes and the character be the same emphasizes the differences in the transformations more. You notice the subtleties because everything else about Goku is not changed.

This is why SSRosé Goku looks very weird. It clashes with his clothing, but I wanted to only make changes to the hair, as the forms dictate. Are you saying SSRosé should have lighter pink hair color?

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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by emperior » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:37 am

ChiefWamsutta wrote:
emperior wrote: For Rosè's hair color, you should use the one Toriyama used for Black's design. Or you could just put Rosè Black from Toriyama there. I would also put Goku SSG's original design there instead of coloring the RoF design. Though I see what you were going for, but I would like it if there were various designs. For example, you could put a Vegeta or two there, and for SSJ Green and Berserker you could use Kale's designs.
The main reason I have Goku in his RoF clothes for each form is that I wanted to keep something constant. Having the clothes and the character be the same emphasizes the differences in the transformations more. You notice the subtleties because everything else about Goku is not changed.

This is why SSRosé Goku looks very weird. It clashes with his clothing, but I wanted to only make changes to the hair, as the forms dictate. Are you saying SSRosé should have lighter pink hair color?
Yeah, for Rosè color you should use Toriyama's palette, which is lighter than your
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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by Fionordequester » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:05 pm

I don't suppose you could change the title of this to "Tree of Saiyan Might", could you :lol: ?
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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:45 pm

Fionordequester wrote:I don't suppose you could change the title of this to "Tree of Saiyan Might", could you :lol: ?
Hell yeah, if you really want me to!

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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:49 am

emperior wrote: Yeah, for Rosè color you should use Toriyama's palette, which is lighter than your
Tell me what you think of my changes to:

Super Saiyan Berserker
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Super Saiyan Rosé
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Which one of the Ultimates looks best to you? I don't want to make his hair too dark because part of the lines become ruined.

Ultimate Version 1
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Ultimate Version 2
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Ultimate Version 3
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by emperior » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:24 am

ChiefWamsutta wrote:
emperior wrote: Yeah, for Rosè color you should use Toriyama's palette, which is lighter than your
Tell me what you think of my changes to:

Super Saiyan Berserker
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Super Saiyan Rosé
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Which one of the Ultimates looks best to you? I don't want to make his hair too dark because part of the lines become ruined.

Ultimate Version 1
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Ultimate Version 2
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Ultimate Version 3
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Your Berserker looks better, maybe you should make Goku even taller?
As for Rosè, it's better now, but it should be less bright, like it is here: https://pm1.narvii.com/6318/ff67eb293ef ... 002_hq.jpg

About the Ultimate one, I think the first one works better!
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Re: Tree of Saiyan Forms (Plus Kaioken and Ultimate)

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:29 am

emperior wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:
emperior wrote: Yeah, for Rosè color you should use Toriyama's palette, which is lighter than your
Tell me what you think of my changes to:

Super Saiyan Berserker
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Super Saiyan Rosé
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Which one of the Ultimates looks best to you? I don't want to make his hair too dark because part of the lines become ruined.

Ultimate Version 1
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Ultimate Version 2
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Ultimate Version 3
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Your Berserker looks better, maybe you should make Goku even taller?
As for Rosè, it's better now, but it should be less bright, like it is here: https://pm1.narvii.com/6318/ff67eb293ef ... 002_hq.jpg

About the Ultimate one, I think the first one works better!
Really? The first one? After a lot of thought I had been interested in the second one. I was trying to find that perfect blend of black hair, while keeping the lines that Super Saiyan comes with. I felt the first one was more dark gray than black.

Ahhhh, yes, I will try to make it less bright.

Ummm, so this is awkward, but part of the reason I never made Goku taller is because I have had extreme trouble in Photoshop molding the body to be different. I am still new at it, so I don't know how to add height or muscle mass without it looking warped. My SS1Grade2 and SS1Grade 3 are not so good because of this problem.

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